8 ms·
New experimental drug rapidly repairs age-related memory loss and improves mood
- hannob 8y ago... in mice. So if you're a mouse of old age and fear alzheimers you can be happy, it's as good as cured. If you're a human however this likely has little meaning for you.
- nerbert 8y agoWhat a time to be a mouse.
- chr1 8y agoThis comment can be found on all hn threads about medicine. Maybe we need better models for testing? e.g. remove 14 day limit for testing on embryos, genetically edit mice to make them more like humans or make very small and short lived chimpanzees.
- krageon 8y agoIt can be found on all HN threads about medicine where the only evidence is found in mice studies. Your proposed changes in testing are either impractical ("genetically edit mice") to do in a way that actually translates well (and that also translates in a nonspecific way) or very, very unethical (later embryo testing, earlier testing on animals which are sapient).
- billsmithaustin 8y agoGreat. I’ll buy some for my old, senile mouse. Maybe.
- api 8y agoYou got downvoted for snark but it is quite important to draw attention to the fact that mouse results seldom map straight onto humans. This is particularly true for aging drugs since mice are shorter lived anyway and their aging is faster and different.
- odyssey7 8y agoI've wondered recently how much the reverse is true. Can we reliably determine that a product is safe for humans by testing it on animals, or is that also a fallacy?
- loeg 8y agoGenerally we don't test products on humans if they kill animals first.
- cortic 8y agoWe've likely missed cures or treatments with this method to, there are lots of nutritious foods that are effectively poison to some animals. New (unnatural) compounds and chemicals would very likely be even more varied in their effects.
- loeg 8y agoI think this is a well known downside. The upside is we kill fewer humans, and I think IRBs are very comfortable with that tradeoff.
- cortic 8y agoNot sure this is a valid argument; An unknown number of deaths[a] caused by possibly not developing a treatment, vs an unknown number of deaths[b] caused by possibly developing a treatment. Where as deaths[b] could be, in theory, a controlled and limited number of willing participants, deaths[a] could, in theory, be millions of disease victims. a is not fewer than b.
- JetSpiegel 8y agoUtilitarianism doesn't change the fact that it would be immoral to randomly kill a bunch of people for questionable gain, in a pharmaceutical setting. How many of those "willing participants" should be referred to a psychiatrist for suicidal tendencies, or are desperate people being exploited by the pharmaceutical industry.
- jacques_chester 8y agoThis is pretty much a pharmaceutical company's dream: it hits a segment with more disposable income and apparently will require sustained usage. On the other hand, miracle drugs for dementia and senile decline are announced every ten minutes and I've just started tuning them out. Everything falls flat on human trials. We're stuck with what we have.
- loeg 8y agoYep. This isn't worth paying attention to (for a broad audience) until it works in humans. We've cured every brain decease 10 times over in mice models; they don't tend to translate. It's interesting and I hope scientists continue to explore novel cures to brain diseases, but personally, I think we could do with less of this kind of purely speculative news.
- bufferoverflow 8y agoMetformin and rapamycin look promising.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoSomeone recommended Metformin on HN, and I’ve been taking the recommended maintenance dose without issue for a few months. Can’t tell how well it works though for aging, as it’s binary (still alive be dead). I do notice I have lower blood sugar levels, which helps me keep weight off with less diet strictness and exercise.
- onetimemanytime 8y agoJust sayin...did you talk to a doc or is that harmless for side effects?
- toomuchtodo 8y agoWorst side effects are similar to a bad batch of Taco Bell. No, did not talk to a doctor. I’m a responsible adult and did my research.
- plg 8y agoI can’t tell from the jargon ... does this drug increase GABA in the brain or decrease GABA in the brain? How does it compare to for example the drug pregabalin?
- meowface 8y agoFrom the few details they included, I think it's likely more complex than a typical GABA analog, so the effects may not be as simple as raising or lowering GABA.
- ryanmarsh 8y agoIf anyone wants to know what this might feel like, get on a gaba blocker. Then get off of it. Notice the difference. GABA is important stuff in your brain. Note: I don’t actually recommend doing this. GABA blockers can fuck you up.
- fucking_tragedy 8y ago> GABA blockers can fuck you up. Drugs of this class are used to induce seizures in studies. They can kill you.
- jwildeboer 8y agoI wonder if it will be an addictive medication, as it is based on benzodiazepines which are quite known to have severe withdrawal effects and causing tolerance quite fast.
- pdfernhout 8y agoExercise, sleep, omega-3s, and fasting also can improve memory. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/regular-exercise-changes-brain-improve-memory-thinking-skills-201404097110 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/regular-exercise-changes... https://www.sleepfoundation.org/articles/why-do-we-need-sleep https://www.sleepfoundation.org/articles/why-do-we-need-slee... https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252198.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252198.php https://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/12/11/neuroscientist-shows-what-fasting-does-to-your-brain-why-big-pharma-wont-study-it/ https://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/12/11/neuroscienti... But of course big pharma can't make any money from these...
- hannob 8y ago> But of course big pharma can't make any money from these... I hate to break this to you, but big pharma is making lots of money from omega 3 pills.
- TaylorAlexander 8y agoIs that big pharma or the smaller generic manufacturers? I genuinely don’t know.
- epmaybe 8y agoThe supplement industry in the US is around $122b/yr, whereas the pharmaceutical industry in the US is around $510b/yr. Not sure if some of big pharma has a stake in the dietary supplement industry, maybe the original commenter could provide a link?
- heyjudy 8y agoThere was a documentary where eating quality small, oily fish were order(s)-of-magnitude more effective than fish oil pills. Furthermore, fish oil pills can often go rancid and instead contain more omega-6 than omega-3. IIRC it was Frontline's "The Fish on My Plate" but it might've been another doc
- senectus1 8y ago
- mabbo 8y agoThe scary part for me isn't whether it works- either it does, or doesn't- but how long it's effective before some part of the brain adapts to it. Imagine it gets widely marketed, millions of people taking it, then we all learn that after 3 years it's "Flowers for Algernon".
- klenwell 8y agoI remember reading an article years ago (I want to say in the New Yorker in the late 90s?) that made something like this point and kinda alarmed me. It pointed out that a second generation of anti-depressants (SSRIs like Prozac) had emerged and been aggressively marketed just as patents were expiring on the first generation (Lithium?) and some troubling long-term effects with those earlier drugs were becoming apparent. It questioned the long-term effects of this new generation of pharmaceuticals. (Or even shorter-term effects whose data had not yet been fully collected and analyzed.) I have tried periodically to relocate this article but have not yet been able to find it. It's probably old enough now that one could even evaluate the validity of its forebodings.
- bcOpus 8y agoLithium is a mood stabilizer, and greatly predates modern psychiatric intervention. I believe that the earlier generations you’re thinking of are tricyclics and MAOI’s (Monoamine oxidase inhibitors). Both are still used, but are no longer the first pharmaceuticals of choice.