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> Eventually, he thinks that Android quality, consistency, and user satisfaction will match iOS. Oh, I'm not so sure about that. The biggest problem Android a

> Eventually, he thinks that Android quality, consistency, and user satisfaction will match iOS. Oh, I'm not so sure about that. The biggest problem Android app developers have now is the wicked fragmentation on the platform, and that's only going to go UP as more handhelds come out. When you target iOS, you know the capabilities of pretty much every generation are pretty similar going in, and that's all you have to worry about. With Android, you have to ask - Does this model even HAVE a keyboard? EDIT: Okay, because I'm being modded down into hell, then why doesn't Android have Netflix? Oh that's right, device fragmentation: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/google/netflix-on-your-android-device-platform-fragmentation-strikes-again/2625 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/google/netflix-on-your-android-dev... Netflix is on your computer, your Xbox 360, your Wii, your PS3, and on your iPhone, but NOT on Android and the Netflix devs themselves say "fragmentation" is the issue. Sure, the keyboard was a silly example, but it's not like it's not a problem.

vetinari 16y ago
Do you have practical experience with that, or are you just repeating what you read on the internet?
- DanHulton 16y ago
  What? Just last week there was a flurry of stories where Android app developers were complaining about device fragmentation. Studies done that show the breakdown of devices, features, screen sizes, etc. You know, occasionally you can trust what you read on the internet.
  - biafra 16y ago
    As if the iPhone/iOS-Platform had no fragmentation: 1. different OS versions (The classic won't get 4.x and some users never upgrade) 2. different features on the same version (3G with 4.x has no multitasking) 3. different screen sizes (480x320, 1024x768, 960x640)
    - icegreentea 16y ago
      To be fair, the 480 vs 960 one isn't nearly as bad as the andriod stuff. It's just pixel doubling. With andriod... I mean, look at the driod. 54 extra lines! what are you going to do there? In other words, iOS fragmentation is not nearly as bad as Andriods, and furthermore, cannot get as bad as andriod gets, simply because there's only one manufacturer.
    - blub 16y ago
      Any sane developer would pick iPhone fragmentation over Android fragmentation. I should know, I develop on a platform that's even more fragmented than Android. Google and Android fans refuse to acknowledge the impact of fragmentation as much as they can, but it's there and it's going to get worse. Look at what the Android developers are saying tough (even here on HN): it's more time consuming and it costs more to develop for Android than for the iPhone.
- blub 16y ago
  One does not need experience, only logic. It is logical that the more producers and devices there are, the more difficult and time consuming it is to develop for a software platform. Tricks such as auto-resizing widgets only get you so far. Please read the testimonials from HN Android developers and you'll be convinced too.
spot 16y ago
otoh, iOS still doesn't have a decent notification system or multitasking. major capabilities like that might be more important than fragmentation, which effects both platforms and is only a problem for smaller devs. i have done some android work and "wicked" is an exaggeration. i am not aware of anyone who cares if there is a keyboard or not. it's completely abstracted by the OS.
- DanHulton 16y ago
  Yeah, I'd really enjoy some better multitasking/background stuff on the iPhone, I'm sure. Then again, I'm certain that there would be apps that would abuse it and drain the heck outta my battery. Man, it would be nice if there was a system utility that showed how much of the battery each app drained, so you could keep track of the worst offenders. Even if just a good estimate, like % of processor time * amount drained while active.
  - dhoe 16y ago
    Android has that.
    - sigzero 16y ago
      Joe Public doesn't care about that. Not really.
      - Kliment 16y ago
        No. But developers do. That way they can make sure their app is not a battery drain without having to wait for hours. And once this is a priority to developers, Joe Public benefits.
        redrobot5050 16y ago
        iOS developers have more powerful tools than a task tracker app available to them in the SDK.
      - 16y ago
Kylekramer 16y ago
Netflix has nothing to do with product fragmentation. It is just entirely about Netflix refusing to get in the business of creating DRM systems. Android does not have a systemwide DRM scheme. This may be a failing of Android, but it is not fragmentation.
abrahamsen 16y ago
Too many people gets the causality wrong in the Netflix story. The story isn't that Netflix isn't on Android because of fragmentation. The story us that Netflix will cause fragmentation on Android phones. XBox 360, Wii, PS3 and iPhone all have strong DRM build into the platform. Android doesn't have strong DRM in the base version, so Netflix will (or can) not support that version. However, individual Android phones may have Netflix because Android is Open Source, so individual manufacturers may add strong DRM to the platform. Hence, the user experience will likely become (further) fragmented because of Netflix.
- Xuzz 16y ago
  Except the iPhone effectively has no DRM. Load the application into gdb, dump memory, and you've broken it. This is even worse than Android, even: the developers cannot add their own DRM on top, due to both technical and App Store restrictions.
  - redrobot5050 16y ago
    This is simply not true. Certain App Store developers have added web service calls to their applications so they "phone home" and pirated apps could be denied access. Similar to an API key.
    - Xuzz 16y ago
      There is only one foolproof check to see if your application is pirated, since only the binary itself has to change (and you can't checksum what's distributed to users). Therefore, there's just one simple thing to patch out -- 5 minutes for an experienced pirate.
Qz 16y ago
If you read the actual Netflix blog post, you'll see that they describe fragmentation as the result of the lack of a DRM scheme in Android OS (aka nothing to to do with hardware), not a cause of why they can't put Netflix on Android.
cryptoz 16y ago
> Netflix is on your computer No it's not. Netflix doesn't support my computer, so I can't get it. I wish I could...in fact, I'd probably pay 10x the price they're charging for the service they offer. But since they don't support Ubuntu because of DRM issues, there is no Netflix on my computer. Your Netflix example isn't appropriate here.
- matwood 16y ago
  10x the price huh? Buy a copy of Windows install in virtual box and you now have Netflix. See how easy that was? The point is that NF can be made to easily run on any computer and that you are choosing not to run it. That's a different situation than what is happening with Android.
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    I am willing to pay a lot to Netflix because I support the idea of what they're doing: bringing streaming video to the PC and away from the TV, and accelerating the general public's desire for better Internet service. I do not support Microsoft! I am not willing to give any money at all to Microsoft. I disagree with their business practices, think they produce poor-quality software and refuse to use Windows. I'm not doing this out of being a "fanboy" or anything; I just don't trust them. They have a 15-year history of producing software full of security holes and my government will throw me in jail if I look for those holes. I've heard Windows 7 is a bit better, but how can I know? It's a crime to find out. Sorry. Not going to run Windows.
    - brudgers 16y ago
      >"Sorry. Not going to run Windows." Then it is not a matter of Netflix "not supporting your computer." It is a matter of your personal values and choices precluding use of Netflix.
      - redrobot5050 16y ago
        So don't run Windows. Hackintosh. Or is specifically you hating Silverlight? And would it be possible to Mono or Wine Silverlight and avoid windows?
forgottenpaswrd 16y ago
I don't think fragmentation is the issue with Netflix. The main issue is that Android (or any Linux) is open, so if DRM crackers could modify Windows without looking at the source, imagine how easy will it be having all the source of all the DRM lib surroundings(you could fake the DRM lib with millions of combinations). This means anybody being able to crack Netflix without effort in seconds and Netflix loosing millions of dollars. Not going to happen.

vetinari 16y ago

Do you have practical experience with that, or are you just repeating what you read on the internet?

DanHulton 16y ago
What? Just last week there was a flurry of stories where Android app developers were complaining about device fragmentation. Studies done that show the breakdown of devices, features, screen sizes, etc. You know, occasionally you can trust what you read on the internet.
- biafra 16y ago
  As if the iPhone/iOS-Platform had no fragmentation: 1. different OS versions (The classic won't get 4.x and some users never upgrade) 2. different features on the same version (3G with 4.x has no multitasking) 3. different screen sizes (480x320, 1024x768, 960x640)
  - icegreentea 16y ago
    To be fair, the 480 vs 960 one isn't nearly as bad as the andriod stuff. It's just pixel doubling. With andriod... I mean, look at the driod. 54 extra lines! what are you going to do there? In other words, iOS fragmentation is not nearly as bad as Andriods, and furthermore, cannot get as bad as andriod gets, simply because there's only one manufacturer.
  - blub 16y ago
    Any sane developer would pick iPhone fragmentation over Android fragmentation. I should know, I develop on a platform that's even more fragmented than Android. Google and Android fans refuse to acknowledge the impact of fragmentation as much as they can, but it's there and it's going to get worse. Look at what the Android developers are saying tough (even here on HN): it's more time consuming and it costs more to develop for Android than for the iPhone.
blub 16y ago
One does not need experience, only logic. It is logical that the more producers and devices there are, the more difficult and time consuming it is to develop for a software platform. Tricks such as auto-resizing widgets only get you so far. Please read the testimonials from HN Android developers and you'll be convinced too.

spot 16y ago

otoh, iOS still doesn't have a decent notification system or multitasking. major capabilities like that might be more important than fragmentation, which effects both platforms and is only a problem for smaller devs. i have done some android work and "wicked" is an exaggeration. i am not aware of anyone who cares if there is a keyboard or not. it's completely abstracted by the OS.

DanHulton 16y ago
Yeah, I'd really enjoy some better multitasking/background stuff on the iPhone, I'm sure. Then again, I'm certain that there would be apps that would abuse it and drain the heck outta my battery. Man, it would be nice if there was a system utility that showed how much of the battery each app drained, so you could keep track of the worst offenders. Even if just a good estimate, like % of processor time * amount drained while active.
- dhoe 16y ago
  Android has that.
  - sigzero 16y ago
    Joe Public doesn't care about that. Not really.
    - Kliment 16y ago
      No. But developers do. That way they can make sure their app is not a battery drain without having to wait for hours. And once this is a priority to developers, Joe Public benefits.
      - redrobot5050 16y ago
        iOS developers have more powerful tools than a task tracker app available to them in the SDK.
    - 16y ago

Kylekramer 16y ago

Netflix has nothing to do with product fragmentation. It is just entirely about Netflix refusing to get in the business of creating DRM systems. Android does not have a systemwide DRM scheme. This may be a failing of Android, but it is not fragmentation.

abrahamsen 16y ago

Too many people gets the causality wrong in the Netflix story. The story isn't that Netflix isn't on Android because of fragmentation. The story us that Netflix will cause fragmentation on Android phones. XBox 360, Wii, PS3 and iPhone all have strong DRM build into the platform. Android doesn't have strong DRM in the base version, so Netflix will (or can) not support that version. However, individual Android phones may have Netflix because Android is Open Source, so individual manufacturers may add strong DRM to the platform. Hence, the user experience will likely become (further) fragmented because of Netflix.

Xuzz 16y ago
Except the iPhone effectively has no DRM. Load the application into gdb, dump memory, and you've broken it. This is even worse than Android, even: the developers cannot add their own DRM on top, due to both technical and App Store restrictions.
- redrobot5050 16y ago
  This is simply not true. Certain App Store developers have added web service calls to their applications so they "phone home" and pirated apps could be denied access. Similar to an API key.
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    There is only one foolproof check to see if your application is pirated, since only the binary itself has to change (and you can't checksum what's distributed to users). Therefore, there's just one simple thing to patch out -- 5 minutes for an experienced pirate.

Qz 16y ago

If you read the actual Netflix blog post, you'll see that they describe fragmentation as the result of the lack of a DRM scheme in Android OS (aka nothing to to do with hardware), not a cause of why they can't put Netflix on Android.

cryptoz 16y ago

> Netflix is on your computer No it's not. Netflix doesn't support my computer, so I can't get it. I wish I could...in fact, I'd probably pay 10x the price they're charging for the service they offer. But since they don't support Ubuntu because of DRM issues, there is no Netflix on my computer. Your Netflix example isn't appropriate here.

matwood 16y ago
10x the price huh? Buy a copy of Windows install in virtual box and you now have Netflix. See how easy that was? The point is that NF can be made to easily run on any computer and that you are choosing not to run it. That's a different situation than what is happening with Android.
- cryptoz 16y ago
  I am willing to pay a lot to Netflix because I support the idea of what they're doing: bringing streaming video to the PC and away from the TV, and accelerating the general public's desire for better Internet service. I do not support Microsoft! I am not willing to give any money at all to Microsoft. I disagree with their business practices, think they produce poor-quality software and refuse to use Windows. I'm not doing this out of being a "fanboy" or anything; I just don't trust them. They have a 15-year history of producing software full of security holes and my government will throw me in jail if I look for those holes. I've heard Windows 7 is a bit better, but how can I know? It's a crime to find out. Sorry. Not going to run Windows.
  - brudgers 16y ago
    >"Sorry. Not going to run Windows." Then it is not a matter of Netflix "not supporting your computer." It is a matter of your personal values and choices precluding use of Netflix.
    - redrobot5050 16y ago
      So don't run Windows. Hackintosh. Or is specifically you hating Silverlight? And would it be possible to Mono or Wine Silverlight and avoid windows?

forgottenpaswrd 16y ago

I don't think fragmentation is the issue with Netflix. The main issue is that Android (or any Linux) is open, so if DRM crackers could modify Windows without looking at the source, imagine how easy will it be having all the source of all the DRM lib surroundings(you could fake the DRM lib with millions of combinations). This means anybody being able to crack Netflix without effort in seconds and Netflix loosing millions of dollars. Not going to happen.