4 ms·

I'm getting strong vibes of Thiel and Gawker here. Attempting to intimidate a billionaire is generally a poor decision.

api 8y ago
This is worse than Gawker outing Thiel as gay. In this case they're attempting blackmail ahead of time, which may be a crime.
- matt4077 8y ago
  It’s generally not blackmail to threaten someone with some action that, by itself, is legal. See, for example, the many civil settlements where rich people stop the people they raped from going to the police. And I’m unsure what the status is on publishing salacious private photos. Sure, there is a copyright issue. But that’s a civil matter, not criminal. If it were a crime, it really wouldn’t be much of a threat because they’d be unlikely to follow through, would they? Edit: there is one federal law where threatening embarrassment is enough, but that requires a demand for money or property, which this is explicitly not. And because the downvotes are already rolling in: Note that I find this just as abhorrent as you do, and that sexploitation should absolutely be a crime. But the legal situation unfortunately is not at all as clear as the moral one. And the replies below are mostly embarrassing in that nobody even seems to have a clue on the difference between civil and criminal law. Carry on then...
  - jlmorton 8y ago
    That's not true at all. > Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal embarrassing, disgraceful or damaging information about a person to the public, family, spouse or associates unless money is paid to purchase silence. It is a form of extortion. Because the information is usually substantially true, it is not revealing the information that is criminal, but demanding money to withhold it. https://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blackmail/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blackmail/
    - phowon 8y ago
      So I'm curious - is this considered blackmail if the object isn't money?
      - throwaway8879 8y ago
        Yes, very much so.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
        Generally, yes, but you might catch a charge for something else. If they're not asking for money, what they're asking for has to be illegal. Blackmail for Theft: Conspiracy to commit Theft. Blackmail for Fraud: Conspiracy to commit Fraud.
      - pertymcpert 8y ago
        Wikipedia says this: Blackmail is an act of coercion using the threat of revealing or publicizing either substantially true or false, and often damaging, information about a person, to the public, family members, or associates unless certain demands are met. It seems its considered blackmail but in the strictly legal sense I'm not sure. There's probably a law to cover that though, extortion?
      - elliekelly 8y ago
        It only needs to be “something of value”... often money, but I think most reasonable people can see the potential value of the requested statement from Jeff Bezos. Now if AMI wanted you or I to say those statements I’m not sure how valuable they’d be.
        slavik81 8y ago
        To elaborate, "something of value" is the language from the federal law. Under Washington state law, blackmail explicitly includes demands for services. I would think that the demand for a public statement would qualify, however, I'm not a lawyer, and this case is unusual enough that I would not be confident in my personal interpretation of the law.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    I think the operative word in blackmail is threaten. Not so much what you happen to be threatening with.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    Revenge porn elevates the issue regardless.
  - jnbiche 8y ago
    > It’s generally not blackmail to threaten someone with some action that, by itself, is legal. That's entirely untrue. The downvotes are rolling in because your assertion about blackmail is simply wrong. There are a myriad of local, state, and federal laws on blackmail that cover situations like this. Blackmail can involve any threats to coerce using private materials, not just for financial objectives.
  - elliekelly 8y ago
    Theres quite a bit of nuance between the #MeToo settlement agreements and coercion that you seem to be misunderstanding/glossing over: https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/if-amis-jeff-bezos-shakedown-was-criminal-they-can-kiss-their-non-prosecution-agreement-goodbye/ https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/if-amis-jeff-bezos-sh...

api 8y ago

This is worse than Gawker outing Thiel as gay. In this case they're attempting blackmail ahead of time, which may be a crime.

matt4077 8y ago
It’s generally not blackmail to threaten someone with some action that, by itself, is legal. See, for example, the many civil settlements where rich people stop the people they raped from going to the police. And I’m unsure what the status is on publishing salacious private photos. Sure, there is a copyright issue. But that’s a civil matter, not criminal. If it were a crime, it really wouldn’t be much of a threat because they’d be unlikely to follow through, would they? Edit: there is one federal law where threatening embarrassment is enough, but that requires a demand for money or property, which this is explicitly not. And because the downvotes are already rolling in: Note that I find this just as abhorrent as you do, and that sexploitation should absolutely be a crime. But the legal situation unfortunately is not at all as clear as the moral one. And the replies below are mostly embarrassing in that nobody even seems to have a clue on the difference between civil and criminal law. Carry on then...
- jlmorton 8y ago
  That's not true at all. > Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal embarrassing, disgraceful or damaging information about a person to the public, family, spouse or associates unless money is paid to purchase silence. It is a form of extortion. Because the information is usually substantially true, it is not revealing the information that is criminal, but demanding money to withhold it. https://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blackmail/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blackmail/
  - phowon 8y ago
    So I'm curious - is this considered blackmail if the object isn't money?
    - throwaway8879 8y ago
      Yes, very much so.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
      Generally, yes, but you might catch a charge for something else. If they're not asking for money, what they're asking for has to be illegal. Blackmail for Theft: Conspiracy to commit Theft. Blackmail for Fraud: Conspiracy to commit Fraud.
    - pertymcpert 8y ago
      Wikipedia says this: Blackmail is an act of coercion using the threat of revealing or publicizing either substantially true or false, and often damaging, information about a person, to the public, family members, or associates unless certain demands are met. It seems its considered blackmail but in the strictly legal sense I'm not sure. There's probably a law to cover that though, extortion?
    - elliekelly 8y ago
      It only needs to be “something of value”... often money, but I think most reasonable people can see the potential value of the requested statement from Jeff Bezos. Now if AMI wanted you or I to say those statements I’m not sure how valuable they’d be.
      - slavik81 8y ago
        To elaborate, "something of value" is the language from the federal law. Under Washington state law, blackmail explicitly includes demands for services. I would think that the demand for a public statement would qualify, however, I'm not a lawyer, and this case is unusual enough that I would not be confident in my personal interpretation of the law.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I think the operative word in blackmail is threaten. Not so much what you happen to be threatening with.
- sjg007 8y ago
  Revenge porn elevates the issue regardless.
- jnbiche 8y ago
  > It’s generally not blackmail to threaten someone with some action that, by itself, is legal. That's entirely untrue. The downvotes are rolling in because your assertion about blackmail is simply wrong. There are a myriad of local, state, and federal laws on blackmail that cover situations like this. Blackmail can involve any threats to coerce using private materials, not just for financial objectives.
- elliekelly 8y ago
  Theres quite a bit of nuance between the #MeToo settlement agreements and coercion that you seem to be misunderstanding/glossing over: https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/if-amis-jeff-bezos-shakedown-was-criminal-they-can-kiss-their-non-prosecution-agreement-goodbye/ https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analysis/if-amis-jeff-bezos-sh...