22 ms·

Microsoft’s Resurgence Under Satya Nadella

245 points by yarapavan 8y ago

fitzroy 8y ago
https://outline.com/9BWnsj https://outline.com/9BWnsj
- godelmachine 8y ago
  Thanks
bayulxc5 8y ago
The only product from Microsoft I use is Windows and they're ruining it. So, sorry Satya, but...
- electrichead 8y ago
  You don't use GitHub or LinkedIn or Skype either? You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) or find that your workplace gets by with Excel. It's hard to say you don't use their technologies.
  - OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
    that sells the desire
  - bayulxc5 8y ago
    I don't use github or linkedin. I don't use skype either... because Microsoft ruined it and everybody left (for business now I use Hangouts and for gaming now I use Discord).
    - Bamafan 8y ago
      I'll bet you use Azure though (even if you don't realize it). I guarantee you use apps/websites/services that leverage Azure.
    - yuy910616 8y ago
      that's clearly wrong. not everybody left. you left
      - VRay 8y ago
        Everyone I know quit using Skype too.. it's tough to have this argument without access to expensive market research reports, though More anecdotally, the only time I used Skype in the last few years was when I had a remote job interview with LINE. (Ironically, LINE's core product is a Skype competitor, and they refused to use it for the interview even though I said I'd rather stick with LINE and not install Skype. If that isn't a red flag, I don't know what is, haha)
  - 20190129 8y ago
    I agree with you, I often find I like Microsoft's services and subsidiary products (those you listed). I also use the crap out of Excel. But he's right Windows is taking a dive. And other Microsoft products. Example number 1: Excel has these cheesy glide animations that do nothing but slow down imports. I export a report from quickbooks to excel and if it's a large one it almost feels like Excel will crash just from processing so many animations. I tried turning it off, but it's not as easy as it looks.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Github is a recent acquisition, but Linkedin and Skype are not exactly shining examples.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    > It's hard to say you don't use their technologies Use or rely on. I have to rely on Windows. Everything else you listed has acceptable replacements.
  - z3t4 8y ago
    My wife just spent several hours making a Word document, then it refused to save ... It didn't even say why it couldn't save. She is a long time Windows and Word/Office user, and pretty good with computers. But she is starting to hate technology more and more.
  - timrichard 8y ago
    > You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) ... which is also reliant on HAProxy, ElasticSearch and Redis, but that part doesn't get quoted so much. https://stackexchange.com/performance https://stackexchange.com/performance
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  Seconded. Back when Windows merely had the occasional bug, it was still a worthwhile tool for me. Now that it has mandatory telemetry and unavoidable updates (at least for non-enterprise users), the value proposition has gone into negative territory. I'm sure Microsoft has their reasons for doing this, but unfortunately it's clear that our goals are too misaligned.
- partiallypro 8y ago
  How are they ruining Windows? People have been saying this since XP (before SP1 or SP2, when everyone hated it.) Yet there's not much evidence to support it...they are actually doing some really cool things with Windows now like adding bash and having different flavor Linux subsystems. The main issue I've had is some lack of quality control since they let go tons of testers and used Insiders instead. That has not effected me personally, but it has become a public perception they need to clean up.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    I'm not the one you're asking. But to me, the (most recent) way they ruined Windows was the new interface. I don't want to interact with my desktop via a phone/tablet interface. I don't want to use a touchscreen. I want to use only the keyboard and mouse. More: I don't want to use my computer as a media consumption device. So for me, all the new UI changes are counterproductive. But that's me. Others have different usage profiles; whether it's a net win or a net loss depends on the customer mix.
    - duxup 8y ago
      But all the cards and the tablet interface stuff ... is all side stuff that you don't need to use? At least I hardly ever see any sign of it. Am I missing something? There was an issue a LONG time ago when the tiles were more front and center but they dumped that a while ago.
      - markbnj 8y ago
        I agree with you generally but it's not just the tiles. They also made a lot of changes around how settings and other features are accessed to make them more touch friendly, and if you're just trying to get in and change a thing it's often more work to get to it. There are ways to work around almost all of it but its just sort of ongoing evidence of a design direction that didn't really pan out for the mobile users it was intended to serve, and makes life a little harder for technical desktop users. These days I only use Windows 10 for gaming and to host my ubuntu laptop over VNC. If it weren't for games/steam I'd probably uninstall it.
- sovnade 8y ago
  There are for sure features that I disagree with in Win10 like telemetry and automatic reboots while I'm using the computer (which has been resolved), but it's a far stretch to say they're ruining windows. I don't think I've ever had a full crash on my current Win10 box that I use daily. Driver issues are almost nonexistent. It does everything I need it to without issue. I'm not sure what else I would want from an OS.
  - will_pseudonym 8y ago
    I have an annoying recurring bug in explorer.exe where, when playing full-screen media, the task bar is shown, obscuring the bottom of the content. I have a batch file on my desktop to kill/start explorer.exe it happens so often. That type of issue never happened in Windows 7/XP.
  - rjf72 8y ago
    How about not having spyware? I don't think we should use the word "telemetry" when we do actually mean spyware. Telemetry, in connotation, is data used for diagnostic, maintenance, and 'real' quality assurance. I opt-in to various forms of telemetry for a number of different pieces of software I use. I'm happy to help other developers create a better product. What Microsoft is doing goes far above any reasonable notion of telemetry alone. Disable all telemetry options so much as you can. And then setup a sniffer, run Wireshark, etc on your traffic. Windows 10 is a disaster. It is constantly phoning back home, through a wide array of different addresses, sending back unknown data to Microsoft. It's safe to assume that, at the minimum, they're building extensive profiles on users which, in the most benign case, will be used to facilitate targeted advertising and messaging. Aside from that there are also technical issues with the OS such as treating production deployment as sending out code seemingly just after it passes the 'it compiled' standard of quality assurance. An update for Windows 10 in April of last year was one of several that has resulted in bricking numerous machines. Another update a few months back was deleting files on users machines resulting in Microsoft having to roll back the update, and so on. Not only is this itself all completely unacceptable, but I think it also reflects the new direction of the company. Even if you might be willing to tolerate their actions, and failures, today I think this reflects a new Microsoft. Put another way I think these issues are likely to become more substantial, and not less, as time progresses. --- As an aside, I say this all as a Windows 'enthusiast.' My 'native' environment is Visual Studio working in .NET, C# in particular. I've also been using Windows since 3.1, but Windows 10 is simply unacceptable to me as an operating system. I'm still happily running Windows 7, which also has no issues with stability/drivers. The day Microsoft decides to try to make Visual Studio Windows 10 only is the day my Ubuntu partition gets bumped to the top of the boot order. So yeah, at least from my perspective, Windows under Nadella has indeed been destroyed.
- duxup 8y ago
  I've seen a lot of "Windows ruined" stuff, articles and such, but they always seem like issues that were always there about patching issues and such... or even just stuff that isn't an issue anymore. I swear I see a lot of complaints but the things people cite seem like nothing new or ultra minor stuff that you could have cited all through Windows history.
- titanix2 8y ago
  I still have a Windows around for running Visual Studio and it seems the next iteration is resolute about making the GUI worst again (previous successful attempt at it was VS 2012).
  - alkonaut 8y ago
    Are you talking about the 2019 RC? What did they do UI wise? Screenshots I have seen all show very minor cosmetic changes.
- alkonaut 8y ago
  I switched on my win10 box today, opened a shell and typed ”ssh otherbox” to ssh into my linux box. Unless we are having the “but telemetry” discussion (again) there are very few ways that 10 is worse than a previous version.
  - pram 8y ago
    I don’t think Windows 10 is worse than its predecessors, but the start menu being full of advertisements and crapware on a fresh install is pretty shameless (especially after I’ve spent $200 on it)
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"When Satya Nadella took Microsoft Corp.’s helm five years ago, the conventional wisdom was that the company’s glory days were behind it." Have a look at this MS revenues [1] and consider why for a moment there is any 'conventional wisdom' like this? MSFT stock price did languish during this time of amazing growth which I guess validates that 'conventional wisdom' was in fact sour, but it's hard to see why it was. Robert Shiller, in a recent interview on the FT alphaville podcast [2] indicated how so much of valuation was based on 'narrative' and that a lot of this narrative is in fact fiction. For whatever reason, the industry press never liked Ballmer, and I guess they like Satya. Surely, there have been some changes afoot, but in terms of fundamental business orientation, I don't see any reason why Satya is 'better than' Ballmer. At HN, we might see things like VS Code and open sourcing Chakra as 'important', and although they are relevant, those issues are small peanuts in the MS bigger picture. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global-revenue-since-2002/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global... [2] https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/robert-shiller-market-narratives-are-like-diseases/id448302257?i=1000427224773&mt=2 https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/robert-shiller-market-na...
- devereaux 8y ago
  They are small things, but they could also be good signals- a bit like canaries in the mine. To say that differently, every story about Google or Facebook is usually some horrible thing. I would not touch their product with a 10 foot pole. A few years go, I uninstalled all facebook stuff and even whatsapps. Now I do not buy anything even remotely connected to google (such as android phones) because it gives me the creeps. When I buy Microsoft hardware or software, I do not get this bad feeling. So I buy more of it. You should not underestimate the power of a narrative or even impressions.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "You should not underestimate the power of a narrative or even impressions." I'm not. I'm saying (from Shiller, world leading economist) - that narratives are usually wrong, and the MS case is evidence. VS Code and 'open source' Chakra are very, small, things. They are not even canaries. (Caveat: Azure allowing linux is important strategically though) I personally fall victim to this myself a lot, making undue correlations between some tech move or announcement, and actual business robustness. We vastly over estimate these things because we think and care about these issues all day. Most technology customers, and most Enterprises do not. If you have a look at where MSFT derives it's revenue and how consistent it is, that gives a clearer picture. Second, that MS may appear to be more 'open' in these areas in no way implies any kind of success or revenue growth. Apple is considerably more 'closed' and they do just fine, for example. Satya in no way deserves a massive P/E ratio bump from analysts, there is no real basis for it. MSFT stock price over the last 20 years should have been ballpark commensurate with it's revenues, fluctuating here and there. The 'big lift' after Satya had nothing to do with fundamentals really. Ballmer took an already great company and massively grew it, launched XBox, moved into the cloud, grew enterprise services substantially, it's one of the most successful and robust evolutions of a company ever. The 'misperceptions' that lead to 'false narratives' in this case are analyst's readings of pop culture tech trends, and we HN'ers overvaluing the importance of things like VS Code.
devereaux 8y ago
A big resurgence: They make an operating system that supports Linux with just a few clicks. They make hardware devices that can also natively run Linux very well, for when I need it. It feels like Apple when OSX was introduced, only better. Many people here may not like Windows 10, but the more I use it, the more I like it.
- simonh 8y ago
  It’s two completely different UIs beaten together into an incoherent lump. I will give it one thing, it’s not as deliberately user obstructive as Vista or 8. I bought a laptop for my daughter with 10 on it and got a (completely legit) license key for Office from work. Oh. My. God. The laptop already had a different Office SKU on it, so I couldn’t use the key with that. The key I had didn’t work with any of the MS online licensing sites and I wasted 2 hours trying to figure out what to do. In the end I got on to a support rep via online chat and it took him an hour remot desktopping in to run some command line utilities to remove old Office install, clean up some stuff and get the machine licensed. It was unbelievable.
- koalaman 8y ago
  I am writing this from my personal Windows 10 machine and I am not a big fan. Random things that have aggravated me just in the last few days: * For some reason I suddenly had to create a pin a few days ago to login instead of my password. why? * skype is now magically in my list of background programs. * There is news in the start menu when I want to launch an app!? * whenever I want to do something a little hard, like copy a large number of files, things tend to go pear shape very fast. * It's very hard to find basic settings from the start button search thingy. Chrome OS and OS X are way better at that. * windows shell still is unpleasant, and the goobuntu subsystem just isn't convenient due to the incompatibility of windows file paths. Also it's very ugly for some reason * More generally dealing with Windows drives drives really sucks. I'm always shuttling things around trying to fit them into particular drives. Linux LVM is so much better. I could go on. I wish they'd just go back to being an operating system. Now that they're not considered a monopoly anymore they're taking the opportunity to jam their whole 1st party ecosystem of crap down Windows 10 users throats. It's not fun for me. The only reason I pay for Windows is to play games. I prefer Linux as a user, but the hardware and display issues are a pain. I also agree that Windows feels snappier and prettier. Chrome OS with Crostini would actually be pretty perfect if it didn't crash on me every couple of hours.
Bamafan 8y ago
Long story, short: 1. Realize the world is moving beyond Windows 2. Cede mobile OS to Android/iOS, that battle is lost. 3. Realize, next great revenue stream is the Cloud (Azure).
- devereaux 8y ago
  Regarding #1, eventually I expect Microsoft to release their own Linux distribution and keep Windows as a GUI. I would not be surprised if their failed project Astoria was reused to run android apps on that.
  - evv 8y ago
    It would be make me so happy to see WINE supported as the first-class way of running Windows software.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      I would be surprised if that was the approach Microsoft took, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a supported way of running Windows Apps emerge. This could be used as a way to maintain backward compatibility in Windows as it evolves in the future.
    - devereaux 8y ago
      I would fully expect them to buy Codeweavers should they do that. Win32 binaries running on Wine is one of the best option for desktop software. It's funny how it is like the polar opposite of UWP, but it just work and I guess that matters more than technical beauty.
    - acct1771 8y ago
      Valve (Steam) are doing this.
  - VRay 8y ago
    Speaking as an OS engineer who's worked on both kernels a lot, Windows is way better under the hood for low-latency, responsive end user stuff than linux Then again, WinMo 7 was way faster and more responsive than Android at the time, and look how that turned out..
doctorpangloss 8y ago
A VC friend of mine characterized these kinds of answers nicely: incredible, profound bullshit that no one seems to know how to cut through. On a level specific to Microsoft, their biggest threat is how agreeable and self-deprecating everything they do is now. Corporate cultures thrive on hierarchy, and yet their employees are pretty comfortable admitting to their friends that Windows and Azure are crap. The quiet trie flippers at Google, Amazon, Facebook, Oracle and Apple never speak ill of the product. Those people go and hunt leakers. Nobody at Microsoft wants to hunt leakers anymore. That bloodthirsty lust for dollars is what made it possible for a whole generation of middle managers to hit the country club in the first place. So what does it say that the us-versus-them mentality is gone? The CEO should be going out and saying, "Come work for us. Look how much nicer we are. Trie flippers might score better on their programming quizes, but they're insufferable." Instead he's talking, in coded language, about expanding to serve the Chinese government, which is impossible in an organization that believes in personal freedoms and positive life outcomes. On a meta-level, what do we do with all the CEOs who are essentially beneficiaries of our increasingly correlated bull runs? Has it really boiled down to, "Since non-mineral and utility revenues are correlated at huge market cap companies, you're a good CEO as long as your likable?"
- Qworg 8y ago
  The mentality is still there, but years of polish has made it hard to detect by outsiders. I wouldn't for a moment attribute any of MSFT's moves to goodwill. They were bareknuckled and bloody for years - they got slapped by regulators for it and it was forced under the surface.
  - rayvy 8y ago
    Not sure why this was downvoted to grey
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- gnu8 8y ago
  Microsoft deserves to go gentle into that good night because of all the damage they’ve done to the computing industry over the years, for example killing Be and Netscape with monopolist tactics and creating a terminally insecure software monoculture of the lowest common denominator of Windows and IE, that we’re still recovering from today. (Google is repeating the lesson today - Android is the Windows 98 of mobile). I’m glad to see them disappear and it drives me crazy to talk to all of these people who think Office 365 and Azure are sex on a stick. They’ve either forgotten the past or they don’t care. Microsoft deserves to die.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
m0zg 8y ago
It's important to know when to give up, sure, but what did he actually start? Everything that carries MS today (Azure, Exchange Online, subscription software, Office 365, XBox) was started and got traction under Ballmer.
- 19f191ty 8y ago
  Is a CEOs job really to start new stuff? As someone points out below, Balmer also started stuff that cost the company, windows phone, Skype etc. So I disagree that a CEO should be measured by only things he started that were successful. I think a CEOs job is that of a sustainer of growth, which can be done in many ways and doesn't necessarily need new products.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    Arguably, yes, if the company is to sustain itself in the future. And yes, some stuff will fail. You still have to try though. Consider this: if Ballmer did not start all those things, MSFT of today would not see quite the "resurgence" the article talks about, no matter who's at the helm.
- rossdavidh 8y ago
  Certainly starting new stuff is important, but I think it's worth pointing out that focusing your efforts is one of the hardest things to do. One could argue that it was more important for Microsoft to become competitive in things like Azure, than it was to start new things. It's kind of like how successfully retreating is, militarily, more difficult than successfully attacking, because you're already in a bad situation. But, pretty soon, it will be time for Microsoft to prove they can start new stuff again, you're correct on that.
- aliswe 8y ago
  "Before becoming CEO, he was Executive Vice President of Microsoft's cloud and enterprise group, responsible for building and running the company's computing platforms, developer tools and cloud computing services" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Nadella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Nadella
Ruxbin1986 8y ago
Steve Ballmer, technical bits aside. Just couldn't play as a successful CEO in PR Role. He was too aggressive, abrasive and even somewhat rude. Aside from that, one of thing most amusing things and one Ballmer excellent business moves was suing nearly every Android Smartphone Company for patent infringement. Microsoft literally makes money off of Android Smartphones but what's confusing to me is how Apple takes all of the flak.
- skizm 8y ago
  IIRC the android revenue is rolled into the x-box revenue under some nebulous category when they break out revenue in their earning (forget the exact title). This hides the massive losses they are taking on x-box and all things x-box related. The android revenue is almost pure profit and nearly $2B annually. (they make this money by licencing patents to phone makers that use android such as HTC and Samsung)
  - twoheadedboy 8y ago
    Do you have any sources or related info about this? That's super interesting.
  - vijayagrawal18 8y ago
    Looks like "new" Microsoft is not aggressively going after that pie. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-may-relinquishing-billions-android-patent-royalties-141047213.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-may-relinquishing-b...
  - rasz 8y ago
    Arent most of those patents pure junk? Afair the only valid patent in there was something to do with FAT long filenames , and that one was killed with Linus help back in 2013.
    - Ruxbin1986 8y ago
      I can't recall but I think many of them were User Interface related and rather specific. Not like the Apple claim of "Rounded Rectangles" but I will admit that it did appear even at face value that both Apple and Microsoft had a strong case against HTC, Samsung, etc. But I guess one of these makes better headlines for clickbait. YMMV.
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
What resurgence? From a consumer point of view, MS is all but gone to the corporate pastures where Oracle feeds.
phytax 8y ago
Why is somebody posting articles behind paywalls? And then: "We do not accept cancellations by mail, email, or by any other means. " Really?
Brahma111 8y ago
I have mentioned this to many.. Satya could go down as one of the greatest turnaround masters of all time. I had consulted with MS a long time ago (2005-6). The work place was toxic. I might have been with the wrong group..but even uttering Java was considered sacrilegious. If you took a Mac to their office, the security would look at suspicion. Needless to say, I never returned back after my stint. Fast-forward. MS is the largest contributor to Linux source. In MS Ignite conferences, it's not about Windows and .Net anymore rather you would find healthy all round discussions. The developer community has slowly started trusting them more than other biggies. Not just Satya himself but he has his second line all focused in creating a customer friendly environment. I will put my money on MS till Satya is at the helm of affairs.

245 points by yarapavan 8y ago

fitzroy 8y ago

https://outline.com/9BWnsj https://outline.com/9BWnsj

godelmachine 8y ago
Thanks

bayulxc5 8y ago

The only product from Microsoft I use is Windows and they're ruining it. So, sorry Satya, but...

electrichead 8y ago
You don't use GitHub or LinkedIn or Skype either? You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) or find that your workplace gets by with Excel. It's hard to say you don't use their technologies.
- OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
  that sells the desire
- bayulxc5 8y ago
  I don't use github or linkedin. I don't use skype either... because Microsoft ruined it and everybody left (for business now I use Hangouts and for gaming now I use Discord).
  - Bamafan 8y ago
    I'll bet you use Azure though (even if you don't realize it). I guarantee you use apps/websites/services that leverage Azure.
  - yuy910616 8y ago
    that's clearly wrong. not everybody left. you left
    - VRay 8y ago
      Everyone I know quit using Skype too.. it's tough to have this argument without access to expensive market research reports, though More anecdotally, the only time I used Skype in the last few years was when I had a remote job interview with LINE. (Ironically, LINE's core product is a Skype competitor, and they refused to use it for the interview even though I said I'd rather stick with LINE and not install Skype. If that isn't a red flag, I don't know what is, haha)
- 20190129 8y ago
  I agree with you, I often find I like Microsoft's services and subsidiary products (those you listed). I also use the crap out of Excel. But he's right Windows is taking a dive. And other Microsoft products. Example number 1: Excel has these cheesy glide animations that do nothing but slow down imports. I export a report from quickbooks to excel and if it's a large one it almost feels like Excel will crash just from processing so many animations. I tried turning it off, but it's not as easy as it looks.
- bduerst 8y ago
  Github is a recent acquisition, but Linkedin and Skype are not exactly shining examples.
- ProAm 8y ago
  > It's hard to say you don't use their technologies Use or rely on. I have to rely on Windows. Everything else you listed has acceptable replacements.
- z3t4 8y ago
  My wife just spent several hours making a Word document, then it refused to save ... It didn't even say why it couldn't save. She is a long time Windows and Word/Office user, and pretty good with computers. But she is starting to hate technology more and more.
- timrichard 8y ago
  > You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) ... which is also reliant on HAProxy, ElasticSearch and Redis, but that part doesn't get quoted so much. https://stackexchange.com/performance https://stackexchange.com/performance
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
Seconded. Back when Windows merely had the occasional bug, it was still a worthwhile tool for me. Now that it has mandatory telemetry and unavoidable updates (at least for non-enterprise users), the value proposition has gone into negative territory. I'm sure Microsoft has their reasons for doing this, but unfortunately it's clear that our goals are too misaligned.
partiallypro 8y ago
How are they ruining Windows? People have been saying this since XP (before SP1 or SP2, when everyone hated it.) Yet there's not much evidence to support it...they are actually doing some really cool things with Windows now like adding bash and having different flavor Linux subsystems. The main issue I've had is some lack of quality control since they let go tons of testers and used Insiders instead. That has not effected me personally, but it has become a public perception they need to clean up.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I'm not the one you're asking. But to me, the (most recent) way they ruined Windows was the new interface. I don't want to interact with my desktop via a phone/tablet interface. I don't want to use a touchscreen. I want to use only the keyboard and mouse. More: I don't want to use my computer as a media consumption device. So for me, all the new UI changes are counterproductive. But that's me. Others have different usage profiles; whether it's a net win or a net loss depends on the customer mix.
  - duxup 8y ago
    But all the cards and the tablet interface stuff ... is all side stuff that you don't need to use? At least I hardly ever see any sign of it. Am I missing something? There was an issue a LONG time ago when the tiles were more front and center but they dumped that a while ago.
    - markbnj 8y ago
      I agree with you generally but it's not just the tiles. They also made a lot of changes around how settings and other features are accessed to make them more touch friendly, and if you're just trying to get in and change a thing it's often more work to get to it. There are ways to work around almost all of it but its just sort of ongoing evidence of a design direction that didn't really pan out for the mobile users it was intended to serve, and makes life a little harder for technical desktop users. These days I only use Windows 10 for gaming and to host my ubuntu laptop over VNC. If it weren't for games/steam I'd probably uninstall it.
sovnade 8y ago
There are for sure features that I disagree with in Win10 like telemetry and automatic reboots while I'm using the computer (which has been resolved), but it's a far stretch to say they're ruining windows. I don't think I've ever had a full crash on my current Win10 box that I use daily. Driver issues are almost nonexistent. It does everything I need it to without issue. I'm not sure what else I would want from an OS.
- will_pseudonym 8y ago
  I have an annoying recurring bug in explorer.exe where, when playing full-screen media, the task bar is shown, obscuring the bottom of the content. I have a batch file on my desktop to kill/start explorer.exe it happens so often. That type of issue never happened in Windows 7/XP.
- rjf72 8y ago
  How about not having spyware? I don't think we should use the word "telemetry" when we do actually mean spyware. Telemetry, in connotation, is data used for diagnostic, maintenance, and 'real' quality assurance. I opt-in to various forms of telemetry for a number of different pieces of software I use. I'm happy to help other developers create a better product. What Microsoft is doing goes far above any reasonable notion of telemetry alone. Disable all telemetry options so much as you can. And then setup a sniffer, run Wireshark, etc on your traffic. Windows 10 is a disaster. It is constantly phoning back home, through a wide array of different addresses, sending back unknown data to Microsoft. It's safe to assume that, at the minimum, they're building extensive profiles on users which, in the most benign case, will be used to facilitate targeted advertising and messaging. Aside from that there are also technical issues with the OS such as treating production deployment as sending out code seemingly just after it passes the 'it compiled' standard of quality assurance. An update for Windows 10 in April of last year was one of several that has resulted in bricking numerous machines. Another update a few months back was deleting files on users machines resulting in Microsoft having to roll back the update, and so on. Not only is this itself all completely unacceptable, but I think it also reflects the new direction of the company. Even if you might be willing to tolerate their actions, and failures, today I think this reflects a new Microsoft. Put another way I think these issues are likely to become more substantial, and not less, as time progresses. --- As an aside, I say this all as a Windows 'enthusiast.' My 'native' environment is Visual Studio working in .NET, C# in particular. I've also been using Windows since 3.1, but Windows 10 is simply unacceptable to me as an operating system. I'm still happily running Windows 7, which also has no issues with stability/drivers. The day Microsoft decides to try to make Visual Studio Windows 10 only is the day my Ubuntu partition gets bumped to the top of the boot order. So yeah, at least from my perspective, Windows under Nadella has indeed been destroyed.
duxup 8y ago
I've seen a lot of "Windows ruined" stuff, articles and such, but they always seem like issues that were always there about patching issues and such... or even just stuff that isn't an issue anymore. I swear I see a lot of complaints but the things people cite seem like nothing new or ultra minor stuff that you could have cited all through Windows history.
titanix2 8y ago
I still have a Windows around for running Visual Studio and it seems the next iteration is resolute about making the GUI worst again (previous successful attempt at it was VS 2012).
- alkonaut 8y ago
  Are you talking about the 2019 RC? What did they do UI wise? Screenshots I have seen all show very minor cosmetic changes.
alkonaut 8y ago
I switched on my win10 box today, opened a shell and typed ”ssh otherbox” to ssh into my linux box. Unless we are having the “but telemetry” discussion (again) there are very few ways that 10 is worse than a previous version.
- pram 8y ago
  I don’t think Windows 10 is worse than its predecessors, but the start menu being full of advertisements and crapware on a fresh install is pretty shameless (especially after I’ve spent $200 on it)

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"When Satya Nadella took Microsoft Corp.’s helm five years ago, the conventional wisdom was that the company’s glory days were behind it." Have a look at this MS revenues [1] and consider why for a moment there is any 'conventional wisdom' like this? MSFT stock price did languish during this time of amazing growth which I guess validates that 'conventional wisdom' was in fact sour, but it's hard to see why it was. Robert Shiller, in a recent interview on the FT alphaville podcast [2] indicated how so much of valuation was based on 'narrative' and that a lot of this narrative is in fact fiction. For whatever reason, the industry press never liked Ballmer, and I guess they like Satya. Surely, there have been some changes afoot, but in terms of fundamental business orientation, I don't see any reason why Satya is 'better than' Ballmer. At HN, we might see things like VS Code and open sourcing Chakra as 'important', and although they are relevant, those issues are small peanuts in the MS bigger picture. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global-revenue-since-2002/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global... [2] https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/robert-shiller-market-narratives-are-like-diseases/id448302257?i=1000427224773&mt=2 https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/robert-shiller-market-na...

devereaux 8y ago
They are small things, but they could also be good signals- a bit like canaries in the mine. To say that differently, every story about Google or Facebook is usually some horrible thing. I would not touch their product with a 10 foot pole. A few years go, I uninstalled all facebook stuff and even whatsapps. Now I do not buy anything even remotely connected to google (such as android phones) because it gives me the creeps. When I buy Microsoft hardware or software, I do not get this bad feeling. So I buy more of it. You should not underestimate the power of a narrative or even impressions.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "You should not underestimate the power of a narrative or even impressions." I'm not. I'm saying (from Shiller, world leading economist) - that narratives are usually wrong, and the MS case is evidence. VS Code and 'open source' Chakra are very, small, things. They are not even canaries. (Caveat: Azure allowing linux is important strategically though) I personally fall victim to this myself a lot, making undue correlations between some tech move or announcement, and actual business robustness. We vastly over estimate these things because we think and care about these issues all day. Most technology customers, and most Enterprises do not. If you have a look at where MSFT derives it's revenue and how consistent it is, that gives a clearer picture. Second, that MS may appear to be more 'open' in these areas in no way implies any kind of success or revenue growth. Apple is considerably more 'closed' and they do just fine, for example. Satya in no way deserves a massive P/E ratio bump from analysts, there is no real basis for it. MSFT stock price over the last 20 years should have been ballpark commensurate with it's revenues, fluctuating here and there. The 'big lift' after Satya had nothing to do with fundamentals really. Ballmer took an already great company and massively grew it, launched XBox, moved into the cloud, grew enterprise services substantially, it's one of the most successful and robust evolutions of a company ever. The 'misperceptions' that lead to 'false narratives' in this case are analyst's readings of pop culture tech trends, and we HN'ers overvaluing the importance of things like VS Code.

devereaux 8y ago

A big resurgence: They make an operating system that supports Linux with just a few clicks. They make hardware devices that can also natively run Linux very well, for when I need it. It feels like Apple when OSX was introduced, only better. Many people here may not like Windows 10, but the more I use it, the more I like it.

simonh 8y ago
It’s two completely different UIs beaten together into an incoherent lump. I will give it one thing, it’s not as deliberately user obstructive as Vista or 8. I bought a laptop for my daughter with 10 on it and got a (completely legit) license key for Office from work. Oh. My. God. The laptop already had a different Office SKU on it, so I couldn’t use the key with that. The key I had didn’t work with any of the MS online licensing sites and I wasted 2 hours trying to figure out what to do. In the end I got on to a support rep via online chat and it took him an hour remot desktopping in to run some command line utilities to remove old Office install, clean up some stuff and get the machine licensed. It was unbelievable.
koalaman 8y ago
I am writing this from my personal Windows 10 machine and I am not a big fan. Random things that have aggravated me just in the last few days: * For some reason I suddenly had to create a pin a few days ago to login instead of my password. why? * skype is now magically in my list of background programs. * There is news in the start menu when I want to launch an app!? * whenever I want to do something a little hard, like copy a large number of files, things tend to go pear shape very fast. * It's very hard to find basic settings from the start button search thingy. Chrome OS and OS X are way better at that. * windows shell still is unpleasant, and the goobuntu subsystem just isn't convenient due to the incompatibility of windows file paths. Also it's very ugly for some reason * More generally dealing with Windows drives drives really sucks. I'm always shuttling things around trying to fit them into particular drives. Linux LVM is so much better. I could go on. I wish they'd just go back to being an operating system. Now that they're not considered a monopoly anymore they're taking the opportunity to jam their whole 1st party ecosystem of crap down Windows 10 users throats. It's not fun for me. The only reason I pay for Windows is to play games. I prefer Linux as a user, but the hardware and display issues are a pain. I also agree that Windows feels snappier and prettier. Chrome OS with Crostini would actually be pretty perfect if it didn't crash on me every couple of hours.

Bamafan 8y ago

Long story, short: 1. Realize the world is moving beyond Windows 2. Cede mobile OS to Android/iOS, that battle is lost. 3. Realize, next great revenue stream is the Cloud (Azure).

devereaux 8y ago
Regarding #1, eventually I expect Microsoft to release their own Linux distribution and keep Windows as a GUI. I would not be surprised if their failed project Astoria was reused to run android apps on that.
- evv 8y ago
  It would be make me so happy to see WINE supported as the first-class way of running Windows software.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    I would be surprised if that was the approach Microsoft took, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a supported way of running Windows Apps emerge. This could be used as a way to maintain backward compatibility in Windows as it evolves in the future.
  - devereaux 8y ago
    I would fully expect them to buy Codeweavers should they do that. Win32 binaries running on Wine is one of the best option for desktop software. It's funny how it is like the polar opposite of UWP, but it just work and I guess that matters more than technical beauty.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    Valve (Steam) are doing this.
- VRay 8y ago
  Speaking as an OS engineer who's worked on both kernels a lot, Windows is way better under the hood for low-latency, responsive end user stuff than linux Then again, WinMo 7 was way faster and more responsive than Android at the time, and look how that turned out..

doctorpangloss 8y ago

A VC friend of mine characterized these kinds of answers nicely: incredible, profound bullshit that no one seems to know how to cut through. On a level specific to Microsoft, their biggest threat is how agreeable and self-deprecating everything they do is now. Corporate cultures thrive on hierarchy, and yet their employees are pretty comfortable admitting to their friends that Windows and Azure are crap. The quiet trie flippers at Google, Amazon, Facebook, Oracle and Apple never speak ill of the product. Those people go and hunt leakers. Nobody at Microsoft wants to hunt leakers anymore. That bloodthirsty lust for dollars is what made it possible for a whole generation of middle managers to hit the country club in the first place. So what does it say that the us-versus-them mentality is gone? The CEO should be going out and saying, "Come work for us. Look how much nicer we are. Trie flippers might score better on their programming quizes, but they're insufferable." Instead he's talking, in coded language, about expanding to serve the Chinese government, which is impossible in an organization that believes in personal freedoms and positive life outcomes. On a meta-level, what do we do with all the CEOs who are essentially beneficiaries of our increasingly correlated bull runs? Has it really boiled down to, "Since non-mineral and utility revenues are correlated at huge market cap companies, you're a good CEO as long as your likable?"

Qworg 8y ago
The mentality is still there, but years of polish has made it hard to detect by outsiders. I wouldn't for a moment attribute any of MSFT's moves to goodwill. They were bareknuckled and bloody for years - they got slapped by regulators for it and it was forced under the surface.
- rayvy 8y ago
  Not sure why this was downvoted to grey
deleted 8y ago
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gnu8 8y ago
Microsoft deserves to go gentle into that good night because of all the damage they’ve done to the computing industry over the years, for example killing Be and Netscape with monopolist tactics and creating a terminally insecure software monoculture of the lowest common denominator of Windows and IE, that we’re still recovering from today. (Google is repeating the lesson today - Android is the Windows 98 of mobile). I’m glad to see them disappear and it drives me crazy to talk to all of these people who think Office 365 and Azure are sex on a stick. They’ve either forgotten the past or they don’t care. Microsoft deserves to die.

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m0zg 8y ago

It's important to know when to give up, sure, but what did he actually start? Everything that carries MS today (Azure, Exchange Online, subscription software, Office 365, XBox) was started and got traction under Ballmer.

19f191ty 8y ago
Is a CEOs job really to start new stuff? As someone points out below, Balmer also started stuff that cost the company, windows phone, Skype etc. So I disagree that a CEO should be measured by only things he started that were successful. I think a CEOs job is that of a sustainer of growth, which can be done in many ways and doesn't necessarily need new products.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Arguably, yes, if the company is to sustain itself in the future. And yes, some stuff will fail. You still have to try though. Consider this: if Ballmer did not start all those things, MSFT of today would not see quite the "resurgence" the article talks about, no matter who's at the helm.
rossdavidh 8y ago
Certainly starting new stuff is important, but I think it's worth pointing out that focusing your efforts is one of the hardest things to do. One could argue that it was more important for Microsoft to become competitive in things like Azure, than it was to start new things. It's kind of like how successfully retreating is, militarily, more difficult than successfully attacking, because you're already in a bad situation. But, pretty soon, it will be time for Microsoft to prove they can start new stuff again, you're correct on that.
aliswe 8y ago
"Before becoming CEO, he was Executive Vice President of Microsoft's cloud and enterprise group, responsible for building and running the company's computing platforms, developer tools and cloud computing services" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Nadella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Nadella

Ruxbin1986 8y ago

Steve Ballmer, technical bits aside. Just couldn't play as a successful CEO in PR Role. He was too aggressive, abrasive and even somewhat rude. Aside from that, one of thing most amusing things and one Ballmer excellent business moves was suing nearly every Android Smartphone Company for patent infringement. Microsoft literally makes money off of Android Smartphones but what's confusing to me is how Apple takes all of the flak.

skizm 8y ago
IIRC the android revenue is rolled into the x-box revenue under some nebulous category when they break out revenue in their earning (forget the exact title). This hides the massive losses they are taking on x-box and all things x-box related. The android revenue is almost pure profit and nearly $2B annually. (they make this money by licencing patents to phone makers that use android such as HTC and Samsung)
- twoheadedboy 8y ago
  Do you have any sources or related info about this? That's super interesting.
- vijayagrawal18 8y ago
  Looks like "new" Microsoft is not aggressively going after that pie. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-may-relinquishing-billions-android-patent-royalties-141047213.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-may-relinquishing-b...
- rasz 8y ago
  Arent most of those patents pure junk? Afair the only valid patent in there was something to do with FAT long filenames , and that one was killed with Linus help back in 2013.
  - Ruxbin1986 8y ago
    I can't recall but I think many of them were User Interface related and rather specific. Not like the Apple claim of "Rounded Rectangles" but I will admit that it did appear even at face value that both Apple and Microsoft had a strong case against HTC, Samsung, etc. But I guess one of these makes better headlines for clickbait. YMMV.

B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago

What resurgence? From a consumer point of view, MS is all but gone to the corporate pastures where Oracle feeds.

phytax 8y ago

Why is somebody posting articles behind paywalls? And then: "We do not accept cancellations by mail, email, or by any other means. " Really?

Brahma111 8y ago

I have mentioned this to many.. Satya could go down as one of the greatest turnaround masters of all time. I had consulted with MS a long time ago (2005-6). The work place was toxic. I might have been with the wrong group..but even uttering Java was considered sacrilegious. If you took a Mac to their office, the security would look at suspicion. Needless to say, I never returned back after my stint. Fast-forward. MS is the largest contributor to Linux source. In MS Ignite conferences, it's not about Windows and .Net anymore rather you would find healthy all round discussions. The developer community has slowly started trusting them more than other biggies. Not just Satya himself but he has his second line all focused in creating a customer friendly environment. I will put my money on MS till Satya is at the helm of affairs.