8 ms·

Nick's story is inspirational, but are there any stories like this that don't center on a pedigreed education? Sometimes it concerns me that American class str

Nick's story is inspirational, but are there any stories like this that don't center on a pedigreed education? Sometimes it concerns me that American class structure is so stratified that it's impossible to have social and class mobility like this without an elite education. I'm sure he would have had similar outcomes had he gone to UMD, but would he have if he had gone to UMBC?

nostrebored 8y ago
Just about anyone has the ability to go to a top tier school provided they have the ability to manage there. Most have transfer programs with local schools with a few stipulations. For instance, you can go to a community college and transfer into the UC system. My wife and I both came from impoverished backgrounds and went to community college/low-quality state schools and graduated from a top 10 computer science school. RE: downvotes -- please tell me how I'm wrong? I'll happily give you a 3 year plan to get into a top tier engineering school given that you have a willingness to move. The problem with a lot of these places isn't getting in (if you have enough perseverance or desire). The problem is getting through the work after you've gotten there.
- raxxorrax 8y ago
  How do you explain the cost of education in the modern world where the logistics of information are as cheap as never before? Any kid on the world could access material from the best teachers on the planet. So why keep this legacy system for education that is more and more based solely on prestige? Sure, there is a chance for everybody. But why make it a chance that will certainly remain unfulfilled for a significant majority?
  - izacus 8y ago
    > How do you explain the cost of education in the modern world where the logistics of information are as cheap as never before? Any kid on the world could access material from the best teachers on the planet. So why keep this legacy system for education that is more and more based solely on prestige? That's probably because reading/watching materials isn't everything what education is or what brings its value. Just the fact that the system manages to get 8-18 year olds to read those materials and learn them makes a start difference, not to mention allows access to mentors and peers doing the same thing.
    - toper-centage 8y ago
      You could have automated gamification of education without the overpriced manuals and professors. There's just a strong monetary pressure to not have that.
  - nostrebored 8y ago
    That's fairly irrelevant to my comment. The cost of achieving a 4 year education doesn't have to be high, either. Let's assume we're talking about Georgia, a place with a low cost of living and access to a high quality engineering school. Year 1: Work in the state, securing in-state tuition costs Year 2+3: Go to Georgia Perimeter College (2 year tuition cost: $4600) Year 4+5: Attend Georgia Institute of Technology on the transfer program (2 year tuition + fee cost: $12,400) Total cost of tuition is now $17,000 over 4 years. To get at your point about information logistics: nothing has ever been more useful in my life than being surrounded by intelligent people going through the same grueling process that you are, supporting each other and working together for the single point of trying to learn material and complete assignments under unreasonable deadlines. There's also difference between access to the best instruction on the planet and having direct communication to some of the best instructors doing some of the most interesting work on the planet.
    - raxxorrax 8y ago
      > trying to learn material and complete assignments under unreasonable deadlines. Oh, come on, people tend to survive university. I am thinking of models for educational institutions here, not golf clubs. Of course the environment is important but that is not an argument for artificial exclusivity and if only in context of the material given. Pay for the direct line if you wish to do so since information is more widely available today, the difference between formal and "guerilla" education will get smaller. And there should be a vast economic interest to decrease this distance. With the exception of business interests of universities of course.
      - nostrebored 8y ago
        I work for a big 4 tech company and I've never had tasks as unreasonably paced as the ones I had in school. Admittedly I went to the school reported to have the worst work life balance in the country while I was there. The environment isn't important, it's the deciding factor in the quality of your education. A good environment with the right curriculum is the single most effective way to learn a difficult subject, develop the habits that help you learn, and have the conversations that lead to retention. There is a vast economic interest to decrease the distance here. You have a ton of eLearning resources at your disposal. They just don't work as well for most people.
  - QML 8y ago
    Like it or not, the main cost of university is not from education or from helping graduates find jobs. It's true that anyone with an internet connection can access course material from top universities and from top professors. But only a university can get you a community, a network, a signal: you may call that prestige; society doesn't care. I would also like to mention that the UC system is one of the more open, impactful universities when compared to the privates.
    - jahaja 8y ago
      > But only a university can get you a community, a network, a signal: you may call that prestige; society doesn't care. So more or less access to a country club. Isn't it?
  - dexen 8y ago
    >How do you explain the cost of education 1. Value of a service is how much the market is willing to pay. 2. In the times of abundant, easy access to service X, a high price tag is indicator of quality and rarity. I.e., it's a feature, not a bug.
    - raxxorrax 8y ago
      True under a business administrative view. But maybe not the best economical approach to education? So ... > How do you explain the cost of education ... was more of a rhetorical question.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Education is not just about information.
- TrackerFF 8y ago
  Well, some thoughts: 1) Kids from poor / lower-working class families - compared to their peers "higher up" in the socioeconomic chain - simply do not know the importance of a good school. Further, they do not even know the jobs that will follow, or even require such an education. Even regular college is a long-shot for many, and to them, college == college. If you're a upper-middle class kid, with parents working as bankers and consultants, then I can promise you that they'll push you to aim high (academically). Hell, they'll probably plan your (academic) life long before you can walk or talk. In fact, having educated parents seems to play an important role on the chances of your success. If you're poor, chances are that your parents don't even have a HS diploma. 2) Getting into a prestigious school isn't just about getting good grades - you need to show skills and drive far outside that scope. Lots of poor kids can not afford that luxury, like volunteering, getting GOOD at extracurricular activities (sports, instruments, etc.), etc. Some families _depend_ on their kids working after school. When I grew up, I thought bankers where the people/tellers you actually saw behind the counter. I had never heard of consultant. Silicon Valley SW devs? Had no idea. None of my parents went to college - they worked menial factory jobs, and we lived out in rural nowhere. 10% of my HS class went to college, and in that case, a no-name rural state college. No big companies _ever_ came to career fairs, so we had zero exposure to them. If by chance you were exposed to the world of Silicon Valley tech, New York banking, etc., you were told it was too late - that train had left the station before you even enrolled college. For many of us, the absolute pinnacle of (professional) life was to become a local gov. worker, engineer at the local utility company, a store owner, farmer, or similar. Maybe a doctor if you were deemed very, very smart. So even if you see some success stories here and there, they are so incredibly rare. Show me one poor (minority or not) kid on scholarship at HYPS, and I'll show you hundred others going absolutely nowhere.
  - wastedhours 8y ago
    > If you're a upper-middle class kid, with parents working as bankers and consultants, then I can promise you that they'll push you to aim high (academically). Hell, they'll probably plan your (academic) life long before you can walk or talk. Can't upvote you enough for taking on this point, and wanted to specifically call this one out. There will be lots of anecdata from people out there who have pushed entirely by themselves, but the data across the world shows that social mobility is limited as much by aspiration as it is by solely grades. It isn't solely parental (although most of the time it is), but also driven by the school environment. If you're unlucky enough to be in a shit school, with shit teachers from primary to 6th form, and lack of support or knowledge of education and career paths at home, you're essentially fucked unless some stroke of luck comes out of somewhere.
- mac01021 8y ago
  Idk what your three year plan is. Are you supposed to be in highschool to enact it? I think you'll agree that, if everyone followed your plan, only I tiny fraction would get into the top ten. Given that, how do you know that tons of people are not trying your approach and failing right now?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  I don't know about that. I had pretty OK grades in high school (2nd in my class, got a community college degree while I was doing it..but so did everyone else) but only managed a SAT (1500/1600) that could only get me into local schools in-state. Without having a compelling personal narrative I think getting into the elite schools is difficult.
z3t4 8y ago
Moving social class is very hard. I think the best bet is higher education, but today that is not a guarantee. This guy worked very hard, but I think it was mostly luck - his interest (computers) during the golden age. It might not have gone as well if he was interested in relative theory.
BossingAround 8y ago
This is something that worries me, especially if you studied at a non-US uni. Would he have the same experience if he studied at one of the best Spanish/French unis? I'm not persuaded of the quality of the top US universities being that much higher to justify the insane costs (that is, from the perspective of a non-US person wanting to get to the US IT industry).
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  I am sure it works the other way - I have an atypical background and a few years ago I interviewed with a French company in the UK. When they realised I didn't have a degree - they reacted like I had leprosy, IBM also had the same reaction. Ironically I am further down the track to Ceng status than many who have a CS degree.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    yup a lot of companies still require a degree with a good gpa as a bar for entry(even if you've passed the interview!) the question is would you want to work for these companies anyways? the rigidity is usually representative of systemic issues that will result in employee unhappiness anyways. the bean counters don't care about you and factor in time to you leaving and design policies around that.
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      Well this was FANG (ebay uk role) but the hr gate keeper was based in Spain so I suspect even though my first job was on campus at world leading rnd Uni in the UK I got dropped. The average HR person in Spain wouldn't have a clue about CIT and probably though I was a car mechanic.
throwaway012919 8y ago
Posting from a throwaway account since I don't really like to draw attention to this in general. I intentionally decided not to attend a university and instead work hard and learn in the field. Instead of CS classes I read the core works and learned concepts through building things and working with experts around me. There are amazingly smart people in every company who love to teach others what they know. Over the course of 20 years I worked at fortune 500s, tech giants, and startups, learning and building every day. Eventually I was given the opportunity to build small teams and learn to effectively lead people. Through lots of help from those around me and research about effective leadership, I was able to move up as I demonstrated execution and results. Today I hold the title of VP of Engineering at a growing startup in the enterprise space. We're doing very well and I'm continuing to learn every day. The message here? It's not for everyone, but a degree is a piece of paper. It may get you in the door, but so will a track record. You may find you need both, but you certainly need the last one to make a successful career in any industry.
- OctavianV 8y ago
  If you don't mind me asking, do you think the same holds true for someone looking to work in another country? I have just started my career in development in Brazil, without a degree. However, I was considering getting one in order to improve my chances of finding work in the US or Europe. Would I be better off using that time/energy working on projects and studying on my own (and accumulating work experience, of course)?
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    Holding a degree will help you earn value/points when you're assessed applying for a work visa
  - seer 8y ago
    I can only speak about UK and Eastern Europe, but I think that holds true about most of Europe in general. Dev work is generally very lax on academic credentials. Most of the time a great work record, open source contributions or other easily referenced work counts waay more than any degree you might hold. Some startup gigs can even scoff on degrees, because it might indicate complacency rather than entrepreneurial spirit :)
Beefin 8y ago
I went to UMBC and I turned out alright !
- mac01021 8y ago
  But are you or any of your classmates "members of the executive class"? I assume that's what the GP was going for?
alexpotato 8y ago
Dan Luu has a great point about this: He went to University of Wisconsin which was #25 out of the top 25 schools. Because it was in the top 25, he claims he got many more lucrative offers at graduation from friends who were in schools that were just out of the top 25 but were just as if not more qualified. There are two ways to look at this: a. School prestige matters b. Prestige doesn't mean you have to go to the #1 school Personally, I find a to be a bit depressing in the sense that lots of factors outside your control influence where you go to school. However, b is very encouraging and a good reminder that there is always a "hack" that gets you the same result for less effort. (Or it's good to be "lazy" in the Perl sense of the word).
- alexpotato 8y ago
  EDIT: this should have read "he got many more lucrative offers at graduation THAN friends who were in schools"
withhighprod 8y ago
I know no one is favor of China, but the social class in China is very fluid and only start to form in recent years. If you are from lower class, as long as you get into any college, you opened the path to jump to upper classes
TrackerFF 8y ago
I think a lot of countries are like that, not just the US. In the UK, a metric ton of politicians, financiers, business magnates, artists, you name it come from OxBridge. It's been like that since forever, but things are getting better. In the country I grew up in (Scandinavian country), the vast majority of business people came from two different schools - even though we had two-digit amount of colleges and universities. Some industries and firms still put a lot of weight on your pedigree - and will mostly hire from a select number of schools. But IMO, things are getting better.
pjc50 8y ago
This story is interesting because it's the admissions system of the pedigreed education that lifts him up and gains him the necessary privilege credentials to open future doors. Despite having a lot of disadvantages along the way. Fortunately somewhere he learned to be immune to a lot of normal discouragements. (Kind of the complement to "intersectionality"; how to discuss people who have an advantage on one axis but not on another?)
Bahamut 8y ago
I'm an interesting case of this to some degree - I attended SUNY Binghamton for undergrad, applying last minute after I had gotten rejected/waitlisted/offered informally transfer acceptance at all of the colleges I applied to (Harvard, MIT, CalTech, Princeton, Columbia). While I'm not an executive, I am a senior engineer being groomed for management at a FAANG currently. I have no doubt that I could move to being an executive or carve out a career in management if I want based on my track record. While having better paper credentials help you earlier in your career, I'm a firm believer that the paper doesn't guarantee a successful career, and that there is no substitute for executing.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  Interesting, which FAANG? Skimming through your history seems to imply we are both at the same one, but I can’t be sure.
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    You probably figured it out then :) .
- turtlecloud 8y ago
  How did you get groomed? Was their a specific thing you did to get the attention of a higher up?
ummonk 8y ago
In tech? Pedigree gets your foot in the door. If you can bypass that bottleneck, it doesn’t matter after you have been a few years out of college.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  That's true, but compounding returns are real in careers as well. That's my concern, at least. I think there's a pretty significant outcomes difference in terms of social class in the top of the class at my school and the top of the class at say UWashington or UWaterloo
  - ummonk 8y ago
    I don’t think they compound too much in our industry. It might take you a few years longer to get into a fang or decacorn but after that you’re on an even playing field.

nostrebored 8y ago

Just about anyone has the ability to go to a top tier school provided they have the ability to manage there. Most have transfer programs with local schools with a few stipulations. For instance, you can go to a community college and transfer into the UC system. My wife and I both came from impoverished backgrounds and went to community college/low-quality state schools and graduated from a top 10 computer science school. RE: downvotes -- please tell me how I'm wrong? I'll happily give you a 3 year plan to get into a top tier engineering school given that you have a willingness to move. The problem with a lot of these places isn't getting in (if you have enough perseverance or desire). The problem is getting through the work after you've gotten there.

raxxorrax 8y ago
How do you explain the cost of education in the modern world where the logistics of information are as cheap as never before? Any kid on the world could access material from the best teachers on the planet. So why keep this legacy system for education that is more and more based solely on prestige? Sure, there is a chance for everybody. But why make it a chance that will certainly remain unfulfilled for a significant majority?
- izacus 8y ago
  > How do you explain the cost of education in the modern world where the logistics of information are as cheap as never before? Any kid on the world could access material from the best teachers on the planet. So why keep this legacy system for education that is more and more based solely on prestige? That's probably because reading/watching materials isn't everything what education is or what brings its value. Just the fact that the system manages to get 8-18 year olds to read those materials and learn them makes a start difference, not to mention allows access to mentors and peers doing the same thing.
  - toper-centage 8y ago
    You could have automated gamification of education without the overpriced manuals and professors. There's just a strong monetary pressure to not have that.
- nostrebored 8y ago
  That's fairly irrelevant to my comment. The cost of achieving a 4 year education doesn't have to be high, either. Let's assume we're talking about Georgia, a place with a low cost of living and access to a high quality engineering school. Year 1: Work in the state, securing in-state tuition costs Year 2+3: Go to Georgia Perimeter College (2 year tuition cost: $4600) Year 4+5: Attend Georgia Institute of Technology on the transfer program (2 year tuition + fee cost: $12,400) Total cost of tuition is now $17,000 over 4 years. To get at your point about information logistics: nothing has ever been more useful in my life than being surrounded by intelligent people going through the same grueling process that you are, supporting each other and working together for the single point of trying to learn material and complete assignments under unreasonable deadlines. There's also difference between access to the best instruction on the planet and having direct communication to some of the best instructors doing some of the most interesting work on the planet.
  - raxxorrax 8y ago
    > trying to learn material and complete assignments under unreasonable deadlines. Oh, come on, people tend to survive university. I am thinking of models for educational institutions here, not golf clubs. Of course the environment is important but that is not an argument for artificial exclusivity and if only in context of the material given. Pay for the direct line if you wish to do so since information is more widely available today, the difference between formal and "guerilla" education will get smaller. And there should be a vast economic interest to decrease this distance. With the exception of business interests of universities of course.
    - nostrebored 8y ago
      I work for a big 4 tech company and I've never had tasks as unreasonably paced as the ones I had in school. Admittedly I went to the school reported to have the worst work life balance in the country while I was there. The environment isn't important, it's the deciding factor in the quality of your education. A good environment with the right curriculum is the single most effective way to learn a difficult subject, develop the habits that help you learn, and have the conversations that lead to retention. There is a vast economic interest to decrease the distance here. You have a ton of eLearning resources at your disposal. They just don't work as well for most people.
- QML 8y ago
  Like it or not, the main cost of university is not from education or from helping graduates find jobs. It's true that anyone with an internet connection can access course material from top universities and from top professors. But only a university can get you a community, a network, a signal: you may call that prestige; society doesn't care. I would also like to mention that the UC system is one of the more open, impactful universities when compared to the privates.
  - jahaja 8y ago
    > But only a university can get you a community, a network, a signal: you may call that prestige; society doesn't care. So more or less access to a country club. Isn't it?
- dexen 8y ago
  >How do you explain the cost of education 1. Value of a service is how much the market is willing to pay. 2. In the times of abundant, easy access to service X, a high price tag is indicator of quality and rarity. I.e., it's a feature, not a bug.
  - raxxorrax 8y ago
    True under a business administrative view. But maybe not the best economical approach to education? So ... > How do you explain the cost of education ... was more of a rhetorical question.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Education is not just about information.
TrackerFF 8y ago
Well, some thoughts: 1) Kids from poor / lower-working class families - compared to their peers "higher up" in the socioeconomic chain - simply do not know the importance of a good school. Further, they do not even know the jobs that will follow, or even require such an education. Even regular college is a long-shot for many, and to them, college == college. If you're a upper-middle class kid, with parents working as bankers and consultants, then I can promise you that they'll push you to aim high (academically). Hell, they'll probably plan your (academic) life long before you can walk or talk. In fact, having educated parents seems to play an important role on the chances of your success. If you're poor, chances are that your parents don't even have a HS diploma. 2) Getting into a prestigious school isn't just about getting good grades - you need to show skills and drive far outside that scope. Lots of poor kids can not afford that luxury, like volunteering, getting GOOD at extracurricular activities (sports, instruments, etc.), etc. Some families _depend_ on their kids working after school. When I grew up, I thought bankers where the people/tellers you actually saw behind the counter. I had never heard of consultant. Silicon Valley SW devs? Had no idea. None of my parents went to college - they worked menial factory jobs, and we lived out in rural nowhere. 10% of my HS class went to college, and in that case, a no-name rural state college. No big companies _ever_ came to career fairs, so we had zero exposure to them. If by chance you were exposed to the world of Silicon Valley tech, New York banking, etc., you were told it was too late - that train had left the station before you even enrolled college. For many of us, the absolute pinnacle of (professional) life was to become a local gov. worker, engineer at the local utility company, a store owner, farmer, or similar. Maybe a doctor if you were deemed very, very smart. So even if you see some success stories here and there, they are so incredibly rare. Show me one poor (minority or not) kid on scholarship at HYPS, and I'll show you hundred others going absolutely nowhere.
- wastedhours 8y ago
  > If you're a upper-middle class kid, with parents working as bankers and consultants, then I can promise you that they'll push you to aim high (academically). Hell, they'll probably plan your (academic) life long before you can walk or talk. Can't upvote you enough for taking on this point, and wanted to specifically call this one out. There will be lots of anecdata from people out there who have pushed entirely by themselves, but the data across the world shows that social mobility is limited as much by aspiration as it is by solely grades. It isn't solely parental (although most of the time it is), but also driven by the school environment. If you're unlucky enough to be in a shit school, with shit teachers from primary to 6th form, and lack of support or knowledge of education and career paths at home, you're essentially fucked unless some stroke of luck comes out of somewhere.
mac01021 8y ago
Idk what your three year plan is. Are you supposed to be in highschool to enact it? I think you'll agree that, if everyone followed your plan, only I tiny fraction would get into the top ten. Given that, how do you know that tons of people are not trying your approach and failing right now?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
akhilcacharya 8y ago
I don't know about that. I had pretty OK grades in high school (2nd in my class, got a community college degree while I was doing it..but so did everyone else) but only managed a SAT (1500/1600) that could only get me into local schools in-state. Without having a compelling personal narrative I think getting into the elite schools is difficult.

z3t4 8y ago

Moving social class is very hard. I think the best bet is higher education, but today that is not a guarantee. This guy worked very hard, but I think it was mostly luck - his interest (computers) during the golden age. It might not have gone as well if he was interested in relative theory.

BossingAround 8y ago

This is something that worries me, especially if you studied at a non-US uni. Would he have the same experience if he studied at one of the best Spanish/French unis? I'm not persuaded of the quality of the top US universities being that much higher to justify the insane costs (that is, from the perspective of a non-US person wanting to get to the US IT industry).

C1sc0cat 8y ago
I am sure it works the other way - I have an atypical background and a few years ago I interviewed with a French company in the UK. When they realised I didn't have a degree - they reacted like I had leprosy, IBM also had the same reaction. Ironically I am further down the track to Ceng status than many who have a CS degree.
- kkarakk 8y ago
  yup a lot of companies still require a degree with a good gpa as a bar for entry(even if you've passed the interview!) the question is would you want to work for these companies anyways? the rigidity is usually representative of systemic issues that will result in employee unhappiness anyways. the bean counters don't care about you and factor in time to you leaving and design policies around that.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Well this was FANG (ebay uk role) but the hr gate keeper was based in Spain so I suspect even though my first job was on campus at world leading rnd Uni in the UK I got dropped. The average HR person in Spain wouldn't have a clue about CIT and probably though I was a car mechanic.

throwaway012919 8y ago

Posting from a throwaway account since I don't really like to draw attention to this in general. I intentionally decided not to attend a university and instead work hard and learn in the field. Instead of CS classes I read the core works and learned concepts through building things and working with experts around me. There are amazingly smart people in every company who love to teach others what they know. Over the course of 20 years I worked at fortune 500s, tech giants, and startups, learning and building every day. Eventually I was given the opportunity to build small teams and learn to effectively lead people. Through lots of help from those around me and research about effective leadership, I was able to move up as I demonstrated execution and results. Today I hold the title of VP of Engineering at a growing startup in the enterprise space. We're doing very well and I'm continuing to learn every day. The message here? It's not for everyone, but a degree is a piece of paper. It may get you in the door, but so will a track record. You may find you need both, but you certainly need the last one to make a successful career in any industry.

OctavianV 8y ago
If you don't mind me asking, do you think the same holds true for someone looking to work in another country? I have just started my career in development in Brazil, without a degree. However, I was considering getting one in order to improve my chances of finding work in the US or Europe. Would I be better off using that time/energy working on projects and studying on my own (and accumulating work experience, of course)?
- kalleboo 8y ago
  Holding a degree will help you earn value/points when you're assessed applying for a work visa
- seer 8y ago
  I can only speak about UK and Eastern Europe, but I think that holds true about most of Europe in general. Dev work is generally very lax on academic credentials. Most of the time a great work record, open source contributions or other easily referenced work counts waay more than any degree you might hold. Some startup gigs can even scoff on degrees, because it might indicate complacency rather than entrepreneurial spirit :)

Beefin 8y ago

I went to UMBC and I turned out alright !

mac01021 8y ago
But are you or any of your classmates "members of the executive class"? I assume that's what the GP was going for?

alexpotato 8y ago

Dan Luu has a great point about this: He went to University of Wisconsin which was #25 out of the top 25 schools. Because it was in the top 25, he claims he got many more lucrative offers at graduation from friends who were in schools that were just out of the top 25 but were just as if not more qualified. There are two ways to look at this: a. School prestige matters b. Prestige doesn't mean you have to go to the #1 school Personally, I find a to be a bit depressing in the sense that lots of factors outside your control influence where you go to school. However, b is very encouraging and a good reminder that there is always a "hack" that gets you the same result for less effort. (Or it's good to be "lazy" in the Perl sense of the word).

alexpotato 8y ago
EDIT: this should have read "he got many more lucrative offers at graduation THAN friends who were in schools"

withhighprod 8y ago

I know no one is favor of China, but the social class in China is very fluid and only start to form in recent years. If you are from lower class, as long as you get into any college, you opened the path to jump to upper classes

TrackerFF 8y ago

I think a lot of countries are like that, not just the US. In the UK, a metric ton of politicians, financiers, business magnates, artists, you name it come from OxBridge. It's been like that since forever, but things are getting better. In the country I grew up in (Scandinavian country), the vast majority of business people came from two different schools - even though we had two-digit amount of colleges and universities. Some industries and firms still put a lot of weight on your pedigree - and will mostly hire from a select number of schools. But IMO, things are getting better.

pjc50 8y ago

This story is interesting because it's the admissions system of the pedigreed education that lifts him up and gains him the necessary privilege credentials to open future doors. Despite having a lot of disadvantages along the way. Fortunately somewhere he learned to be immune to a lot of normal discouragements. (Kind of the complement to "intersectionality"; how to discuss people who have an advantage on one axis but not on another?)

Bahamut 8y ago

I'm an interesting case of this to some degree - I attended SUNY Binghamton for undergrad, applying last minute after I had gotten rejected/waitlisted/offered informally transfer acceptance at all of the colleges I applied to (Harvard, MIT, CalTech, Princeton, Columbia). While I'm not an executive, I am a senior engineer being groomed for management at a FAANG currently. I have no doubt that I could move to being an executive or carve out a career in management if I want based on my track record. While having better paper credentials help you earlier in your career, I'm a firm believer that the paper doesn't guarantee a successful career, and that there is no substitute for executing.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
Interesting, which FAANG? Skimming through your history seems to imply we are both at the same one, but I can’t be sure.
- Bahamut 8y ago
  You probably figured it out then :) .
turtlecloud 8y ago
How did you get groomed? Was their a specific thing you did to get the attention of a higher up?

ummonk 8y ago

In tech? Pedigree gets your foot in the door. If you can bypass that bottleneck, it doesn’t matter after you have been a few years out of college.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
That's true, but compounding returns are real in careers as well. That's my concern, at least. I think there's a pretty significant outcomes difference in terms of social class in the top of the class at my school and the top of the class at say UWashington or UWaterloo
- ummonk 8y ago
  I don’t think they compound too much in our industry. It might take you a few years longer to get into a fang or decacorn but after that you’re on an even playing field.