6 ms·

So Freedom only got a slap on the wrist, basically

by platz 8y ago

SuperGent 8y ago
When asked about the Freedom fine, [Patel] responded, "I decided to take it as a cost of doing business." This is the problem, why should you not take dubiously legal or moral action, if there isn't a significant deterrent?
- krageon 8y ago
  Because you shouldn't be an asshole. People aren't animals unless they have some sword of Damocles hanging over them keeping them in line, it is a conscious choice to do the wrong thing.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Of course it is, but you’re not in it for anything but the money.
  - magduf 8y ago
    You can't expect this of people. When you do expect this, as you seem to, you end up setting up a society where sociopaths like that guy are able to rise to the top and profit handsomely because the people who made the rules just can't seem to conceive of someone who doesn't mind being an asshole as long as it gets him ahead.
    - krageon 8y ago
      This is about the US. I don't live there, I do think that and while it is super bad everywhere on earth I think we can agree the US is pulling the cart in terms of terrible. Frankly you I think the argument that "this is just how it'll be" is not one that is terribly convincing on it's own. Yes, it'll go wrong. It'll also go right. I don't think we need to structure our society like a prison just because it has the capacity to be worse than we like it to be.
  - Buttons840 8y ago
    Sure, many good people follow the law because they're not assholes, but they were out advertised and out grown by one asshole who broke the law and was never punished. On a micro scale, not wanting to be an asshole will cause people to follow the laws. On a macro scale, the only way to make people follow the law is to make breaking the law costly.
  - rebuilder 8y ago
    Social pressure doesn't seem to work in societies as big as we now have. There's not much meaningful feedback from victims to wealthy criminals, because these hardly ever even meet. Financial incentives override social responsibility in such a situation, and I don't see how to address wrongdoings except by changing the incentives.
readhn 8y ago
pretty typical. look at Snowden. The guy ruined his own life and nobody still gives a damn. Was it worth it? i dont think so. He definitely should have kept quiet even if it was against his own personal beliefs. It sucks but it is what it is. HSBC got slapped on the wrist for laundering cartel money. "If you’re suspected of drug involvement, America takes your house; HSBC admits to laundering cartel billions, loses five weeks’ income and execs have to partially defer bonuses" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-230696/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/outrageo... happens all the time with corporations.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- arminiusreturns 8y ago
  First off I don't think you can make that determination, (was it worth it), only Snowden himself can. Second, while the toll was high for him, those of us who have sworn an oath to the Constitution take that oath very seriously and I applaud him for being one of the rare ones with enough conviction to act on his beliefs instead of just spouting them. Third I am eternally grateful to Snowden because without him all my rants about the coming surveillance dystopia would still be met with incompetent or malicious accusations of being "crackpot conspiracy theory" and generally ridiculed (like many other things the public still hasn't caught up on).
  - smush 8y ago
    Any other things the public hasn't caught up on that you care to share?
    - arminiusreturns 8y ago
      I will try to respond when my work day is over.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

So Freedom only got a slap on the wrist, basically

by platz 8y ago

So Freedom only got a slap on the wrist, basically

When asked about the Freedom fine, [Patel] responded, "I decided to take it as a cost of doing business." This is the problem, why should you not take dubiously legal or moral action, if there isn't a significant deterrent?

krageon 8y ago
Because you shouldn't be an asshole. People aren't animals unless they have some sword of Damocles hanging over them keeping them in line, it is a conscious choice to do the wrong thing.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Of course it is, but you’re not in it for anything but the money.
- magduf 8y ago
  You can't expect this of people. When you do expect this, as you seem to, you end up setting up a society where sociopaths like that guy are able to rise to the top and profit handsomely because the people who made the rules just can't seem to conceive of someone who doesn't mind being an asshole as long as it gets him ahead.
  - krageon 8y ago
    This is about the US. I don't live there, I do think that and while it is super bad everywhere on earth I think we can agree the US is pulling the cart in terms of terrible. Frankly you I think the argument that "this is just how it'll be" is not one that is terribly convincing on it's own. Yes, it'll go wrong. It'll also go right. I don't think we need to structure our society like a prison just because it has the capacity to be worse than we like it to be.
- Buttons840 8y ago
  Sure, many good people follow the law because they're not assholes, but they were out advertised and out grown by one asshole who broke the law and was never punished. On a micro scale, not wanting to be an asshole will cause people to follow the laws. On a macro scale, the only way to make people follow the law is to make breaking the law costly.
- rebuilder 8y ago
  Social pressure doesn't seem to work in societies as big as we now have. There's not much meaningful feedback from victims to wealthy criminals, because these hardly ever even meet. Financial incentives override social responsibility in such a situation, and I don't see how to address wrongdoings except by changing the incentives.

readhn 8y ago

pretty typical. look at Snowden. The guy ruined his own life and nobody still gives a damn. Was it worth it? i dont think so. He definitely should have kept quiet even if it was against his own personal beliefs. It sucks but it is what it is. HSBC got slapped on the wrist for laundering cartel money. "If you’re suspected of drug involvement, America takes your house; HSBC admits to laundering cartel billions, loses five weeks’ income and execs have to partially defer bonuses" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-230696/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/outrageo... happens all the time with corporations.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
arminiusreturns 8y ago
First off I don't think you can make that determination, (was it worth it), only Snowden himself can. Second, while the toll was high for him, those of us who have sworn an oath to the Constitution take that oath very seriously and I applaud him for being one of the rare ones with enough conviction to act on his beliefs instead of just spouting them. Third I am eternally grateful to Snowden because without him all my rants about the coming surveillance dystopia would still be met with incompetent or malicious accusations of being "crackpot conspiracy theory" and generally ridiculed (like many other things the public still hasn't caught up on).
- smush 8y ago
  Any other things the public hasn't caught up on that you care to share?
  - arminiusreturns 8y ago
    I will try to respond when my work day is over.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]