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Dropbox buys HelloSign (YC W11) for $230M
- dangrossman 8y agoDoes this include HelloFax?
- asah 8y agowell deserved.
- azhenley 8y agoDropbox's announcement: https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/dropbox-is-acquiring-hellosign-to-improve-document-workflows-for https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/dropbox-is-acquiring... "Dropbox is acquiring HelloSign to improve document workflows for hundreds of millions of users."
- rrggrr 8y agoThis acquisition will fail if Whitney, Neal and the HelloSign team isn't given the freedom and authority to direct integration, marketing and product direction going forward. HelloSign has demonstrated competencies Dropbox has not. Great that Dropbox nailed sync, desktop integration and sharing years ago; but since then they've done little to show any vision or execution in marketing, sales or product direction. As a Dropbox shareholder and user I am hoping the Dropbox team will give their HelloSign colleagues the freedom and authority needed to save Dropbox from almost certain failure. The sync, store and search ship sailed long ago. There are two more acquisitions I'd like to see Dropbox make this year of private companies to round out the product line.
- kayhi 8y agowhich two?
- faitswulff 8y agoWould it make sense to give them decision making power over the rest of Dropbox's marketing and product direction, not just HelloSign's pending integration?
- rrggrr 8y agoCorrect. I think the HelloSign acquisition is an attempt to position for medium and enterprise sales. However, I suspect Dropbox doesn't have competencies to execute on that in marketing or sales. Again, there are 2 or 3 more acquisitions they need to make... now... to make all this tick.
- basch 8y agoand those companies are ...?
- tln 8y agoHave you used Paper? Also an acquired team, and a great product that has seen a bevy of improvements since being under Dropbox.
- gilbetron 8y agoIt needs a lot more work, the search is horrible, and there are a number of features needed to take it to the next level. So far their feature velocity has been tepid. I like a lot of the ideas, and appreciate a viable google docs alternative, but I fear a Dropbox-level of feature development will doom Paper long term.
- ed_balls 8y agoI'm forced to use Paper as a wiki now. Search, discoverability and extensibility is so bad that I miss Confluence....
- dc_gregory 8y agoOuch. Have you used something in that space that is better?
- nvr219 8y agoLiterally all I want from Dropbox is to sync files between my various devices. I am not interested in doing anything else with it.
- PurpleRamen 8y agoI think improving on the syncing-workflow and enhancing it to offer more then just syncing would be something useful. Something like automated actions, or filters. I store sourcecode in my dropbox, and I really would prefer a way to not sync certain junk-files from compiling-process. Or let it automatically commit to a git-repo if there are changes in certain folders. Something like IFTTT for files seems a sane solution that dropbox seem to miss for a long time now.
- jkravitz61 8y agoWhy are you a dropbox shareholder if you think that the company faces "almost certain failure"?
- rrggrr 8y agoI ask myself that question every-single-day. I'm hoping they wake from their slumber and start competing against Box, MSFT, Google, etc., with real innovation. This may be a start... even if they had to buy it.
- jkravitz61 8y agoSounds like you are starting to become an emotional investor in them, which is the worst type of investor.
- CPLX 8y ago1 point by CPLX 0 minutes ago | edit | delete [-] > The sync, store and search ship sailed long ago. Perhaps. But that ship appears quite capable of generating well over a billion dollars a year in revenue, so...
- thomasjudge 8y agoFrom the article: "Whitney Bouck, COO at HelloSign, who previously held stints at Box and EMC Documentum, said the company will remain an independent entity. That means it will continue to operate with its current management structure as part of the Dropbox family."
- chosenbreed37 8y ago> Dropbox snares HelloSign (YC W11) for $230 The title appears to have a negative slant. Is the modern jargon for acquisitions of this nature?
- bertil 8y agoI’m not sure but most people around me speak negatively about Dropbox in terms of security. The most common expression is: “Things on Dropbox are to be considered public.” My assumption is that anyone can achieve reasonable security of they care enough about it, therefore I would blame Dropbox management for their priorities there. Given the business of HelloSign, that feels like a possibly dangerous combination. However, I agree with you: “offers to buy” would be more neutral and feel more appropriate. “Snares” has other nuances (surprise, violence, asymmetry) but neither convey a discussed at length, mutually agreed and beneficial relationship.
- azhenley 8y agoI don’t think it is meant to be negative. I think “snares” could be positive or negative. I interpreted it as Dropbox was fortunate to acquire HelloSign. Also, this may just be some creative writing. Dropbox’s announcement did not use such language.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> I think “snares” could be positive or negative. You know a snare is a hidden trap for animals? I can't imagine being snared to be positive - it implies you're going to be skinned or eaten.
- okmokmz 8y agoI've certainly heard snared used positively. As in, one has snared something that is beneficial to them and difficult to catch
- azhenley 8y agoPeople often say “he/she is a good catch.” Sure, the term probably comes from hunting but I have always considered it to be a compliment. Not the term I would use in a business context though.
- amyjess 8y agoHmm... the headline has me wondering what was the first time one YC startup bought another YC startup. Is this the first time? Or has it happened before?
- gruez 8y agoThere's something I never understood about e-signature services: how are they legally binding? Why do we need them at all? The end users don't have control over any of the keys, so it all hinges on the e-signature service telling the truth. It's significantly less secure than say, S/MIME with a proper CA-signed certificate. Is the bar for legal "signatures" really that low?
- rrggrr 8y agohttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-96/subchapter-I https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-96/subcha... Its no less secure than faxing signed documents.
- buckminster 8y agoA fax machine is never going to accidentally put my signature on a document I didn't sign. A bug in an online service could very easily claim I clicked the "sign this" link when I didn't. I don't trust them.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- chrisseaton 8y agoThe law isn’t like programming. The reason you sign something is to show clear intent that you intended to agree to something. Nobody’s under the impression a paper signature cannot be forged either. It’s no different. It’s social not mathematical.
- gruez 8y agoThen that leads to my second question >Why do we need them at all? Why not just email the contract, and the person replies back with "I agree to this"? Simpler and cheaper than paying $150/year.
- faitswulff 8y ago
- hashkb 8y agoFinally DropBox will offer a useful product.
- janlukacs 8y agois this a 70X acquisition multiple? I read somewhere they had ~3mil in turnover?
- jbverschoor 8y agoThey raised 16m. So it's 14x
- tvladeck 8y agoTurnover typically refers to revenue, not equity raised.
- kkotak 8y agoIt's called nepotism and designed exits for investors with public funds.
- btian 8y agoIt doesn't matter. Dropbox didn't acquire HelloSign for revenue. The acquisition was for the tech.
- cribbles 8y agoFrom 2014, still germane: https://www.drop-dropbox.com/ https://www.drop-dropbox.com/
- bogomipz 8y agoIf anyone at Techcrunch is reading "Snare" is not an appropriate word selection for the title of an article describing a friendly acquisition. A "snare" or to "ensnare" is to trap an animal generally with a noose. The correct wording is "Dropbox Snags Hellosign." Such an incorrect word choice would have never have made it past an editor or proofreader. The level of journalism at TC is truly cringeworthy.
- briandear 8y agoSorry, but snare can be used in this context. I highly suggest consulting a dictionary if you are unsure about the definition of a word. Just because the word used is not definition 1, doesn’t mean it’s incorrect. Snare is absolutely acceptable in this context.
- bogomipz 8y agoI am perfectly sure of the definition of that word. I worked as a copy editor in a past life. I would suggest maybe you consult the Oxford or Merriam-Webster dictionary: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/snare https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/snare https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snare https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snare The verb form of the word snare is neither applicable or correct to describe a non-hostile business deal, even colloquially. Hellosign wasn't "trapped" or outwitted by Dropbox in any sense. The word snag however does have a common colloquial/slang usage in American English to mean obtain - "I snagged the last one", "snag a ticket the show", "someone must have snagged it." You will never hear an American English speaker say they "snared a ticket to the show" or "they snared the last beer" or "someone must have snared it."
- okmokmz 8y agohttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snare https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snare transitive verb 1b : to win or attain by artful or skillful maneuvers
- 8y ago
- Zelphyr 8y agoWow. I’ve been a user since the beginning and I seem to recall a point where they almost closed their doors. Talk about it paying off to keep going.
- brightball 8y agoEXCELLENT! I've been saying Dropbox needed to add this type of functionality to their existing offering for a while now so this is very exciting. It's a natural fit with everything else that they are doing with Dropbox Paper. Now they just need to add a direct integration for something like eFax and it will be on the short list of indispensable SMB tooling. EDIT: Didn't realize HelloSign had the fax capability already...so all around great news. This is probably the most well aligned acquisition I can recall seeing.
- Liron 8y agoI wonder what was their revenue?
- randomacct3847 8y agoAs someone who has never worked in an enterprise SaaS will never fully understand the hype or secret sauce around building and selling eSignature software.
- aero142 8y agobecause printing a document, signing it with a pen, taking a photo of it, and emailing it back is a thing rich investors keep having to do.
- randomacct3847 8y agoYou can sign docs with free Apple software on Mac/iPhone
- manigandham 8y agoSending, reviewing, and signing documents is something every business needs to do and is difficult to get right according to all the laws in every region served and all the workflow requirements that companies and users want. These needs may be "unsexy" compared to another social media app but they drive major value in the corporate world while building strong sustainable businesses.
- Consultant32452 8y agoMy small business accountant worked this way. You can upload docs to their portal and e-sign the required contract or pay extra to have a face to face where you hand it all off and sign in person. You have no idea what kind of computer or technical expertise is on the other end of situations like this. The value add by e-signature SaaS providers is minimizing the amount of time the accountant employees have to deal with helping people sign docs.
- seem_2211 8y agoThere are a few big benefits to eSignature software • Your contracts are all in one place • It's easy to make new ones / send them out • You can see if the other person has opened it etc. • It's easier for them to sign As an individual it's hard to see the benefit of a lot of this software in your own life, just like it's hard to see the benefit of a lot of corporate IT tools to manage two computers at home. But if you have 100 contracts as a company (which is not very many), having an centralised storage function, an easy way to create new ones (say for bringing on a new customer or employee), and analytics that mean you're not asking "what happened to the ACME contract last week." A lot of enterprise SaaS tools make it easy to organize things that are simple at a small scale, but become very difficult when you increase things by 10-1000x.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- spking 8y agoHelloSign is one of the few utility SaaS products I use somewhat regularly that just nails it perfectly (and for free). Please don't screw this up, Dropbox.
- fillskills 8y agoSecond that. I came here to say the same. Been enjoying Hellosign as a paying/free customer for years. Absolutely love their product.
- happyhueman 8y agoCongrats John, Sarah and Ron!
- chatmasta 8y agoGiven DocuSign's market cap of $8B, does this price seem low?
- nostromo 8y agoDocuSign makes like $700 million a year. HelloSign makes less than $4 million a year (according to Crunchbase at least). If Dropbox was buying revenue then by Docusign's multiple they handsomely overpaid for HelloSign. But they're not buying revenue, so who knows if they over or underpaid.
- tschellenbach 8y agoThat would be a rather insane 50x revenue multiple. Doesn't sound right
- santiagobasulto 8y agoThat can't possibly accurate, right? If their revenue is 4M, the acquisition is 57x their rev. That's crazy. Except if they have long time contracts signed maybe?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- muhneesh 8y agoCB is usually outdated - unless they're reporting their revenue number or it leaks, it's just a guess.
- nothrows 8y agoGot this email from them a couple days ago: We’ve noticed you haven’t used your XXX@XXX.com Dropbox account in over one year and have closed your account for you. Devices connected to this account have now stopped syncing. Any remaining files in your account will be subject to deletion. Sincerely, - The Dropbox Team There goes my files. Fuck dropbox. Stick to google drive.
- PStamatiou 8y agoThis is awesome news, congrats folks!! Have relied on hellosign over the years, including doing all of my home buying paperwork with it.
- joeblau 8y agoI've used HelloSign as well, but every other app that I used that Dropbox bought has been discontinued so while I'm happy for the team, I don't have high long term hopes for the project.
- tradesmanhelix 8y agoThis. After Dropbox acquired and then unceremoniously killed one of my all-time-favorite apps (Umano), I greet most of their acquisitions with dread.
- analogmemory 8y agoUgh, yeah they bought and then slowly killed off Mailbox. :(
- toomuchtodo 8y agoPour one out for Hackpad.
- trentellingsen 8y agoCongratz!
- tombert 8y agoI don't mean to ask this ironically; how do these companies come up with these numbers during a sale? Jet.com was sold for $3 Billion, but Craftsman Tools was sold for only $900 Million. I don't really know anything about HelloSign, but can someone tell me roughly why they might have come up with the $230M number?
- tomasien 8y agorevenue * multiple let's say $10m in ARR * a 23x multiple The way you get to the multiple is a combination of how fast the revenue is growing, how long you think that will keep up, and the margin of the revenue. Craftsman Tools, for example, was probably not growing much or shrinking and likely had low margin revenue but I don't know.
- siruncledrew 8y agoWould revenue or assets be used? So once the accounting statements are reviewed, then most of the acquisition talk is just a discussion over a multiplier?
- Dwolb 8y agoIt all factors in but realistically with SaaS there is little in terms of fixed assets. Most likely a lot of the additional factors for the valuation multiple calculation are going to be around efficient customer acquisition, sales cycle payback periods, and different income percentages (operating, net). X factor would be if other competitors of the acquirer are also bidding on the acquiree.
- bduerst 8y agoDepends on the business. Something like Zipcar or similarly asset-heavy would incorporate assets in an MnA valuation, but SaaS would not unless they're flush with valuable patents.
- bogomipz 8y agoIn the formula you provided how is the number for the multiple arrived at? Is that the multiplier that will be realized at some future date based on the current rate of growth? If so what would that future date be - the next round of funding, an IPO, something else?
- passive 8y agoNeat. I've used HelloSign for several things over the years, with their fax support saving me a ton of time on numerous occasions. They've always been very easy to deal with.
- ykevinator 8y agoIn love hello sign but it feels like a few weeks of work to build. Feels like they dodged a bullet.
- aaron_altamura 8y agoHellosign is great, however please add tags!!!