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No offense to you personally, but most Americans would probably be happier with fewer H-1Bs. They are only brought over to depress wages and underpay workers. S

No offense to you personally, but most Americans would probably be happier with fewer H-1Bs. They are only brought over to depress wages and underpay workers. So while I sympathize with your condition, I’d like an actual ban on these types of fake specialized knowledge visa categories. L-1 and H-1 are so grossly abused it’s not even funny. The entire prevailing wage is famed and they bring over people from India with no degrees doing these fake “experience evaluations” they just pay some accreditation company for. It’s a scam filled industry. And all the body shops like Infosys, Tata, Cognizant, etc should be outright banned from operating in America. There should be a $150k-$200k minimum on bringing over specialized knowledge workers. Save it for the doctors and medical workers. We can train engineers here. Plenty of companies like Facebook have to apply for waivers because they claim they are “H-1 dependent” this is simply a lie because they aren’t willing to pay fair wages to hire locals. I voted for Obama. I believe in immigration. But bringing in hundreds of thousands of workers to drive down wages is bullshit for the average American and only to the benefit of billionaires. *Bringing some facts: For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when you look at the biggest H-1B recipients: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx It's mostly the low quality outsourcing shops like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, and Cognizant. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, and Cognizant that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

baby 8y ago
> most Americans would probably be happier with fewer H-1Bs America's education system is pretty poor. It would be nothing without H1Bs. Take it from Michio Kaku[1]: "The United States has the worst education system known to science. Our graduates compete regularly at the level of third world countries. How come the scientific establishment of the US doesn't collapse. If we are producing a generation of dummy. If the stupid index of America keeps rising every year [...] how come the scientific establishment of the US doesn't collapse. Let me tell you something. America has a secret weapon. That secret weapon is the H1B. Without the H1B the scientific establishment of this country would collapse. Forget about Google, forget about Silicon Valley, there would not be a Silicon Valley without the H1B. [...] You realize that in the US 50% of all PhD candidates are foreign born. [...]" the rest of the video is pretty good too. I recommend watching it. > There should be a $150k-$200k minimum on bringing over specialized knowledge workers This is stupid because you are privileging fields that can afford theses wages. Plenty of over fields which are not IT are in need of foreign experts and cannot afford to pay these salaries. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fphPeRvhjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fphPeRvhjQ
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  If there’s a quota to specialized knowledge workers, give them to the highest paid thus the most needed. Shouldn’t be given out in some stupid lottery... I want them to bring in people making the highest wages so they contribute the most to the economy. Not these $70k H-1Bs with fake work locations. Not going to bother defending our education system since so many foreigners are trying to get into our colleges, I’d say we’re fine. Also, the skills gap is a myth: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i... Still lots of other issues I pointed out.
  - baby 8y ago
    Then you're losing on diversity.
    - diogenescynic 8y ago
      No. We have an entire other immigration category for that...
  - temp4358 8y ago
    Except the top colleges like MIT, stanford, etc, most foreigners get into US colleges because it is an easier path to get a work visa in US, that's it. Also, the 70k h1-B are currently working in US, so they pay US taxes. If they are not allowed, most of the work will be outsourced (and a lot of that has already been), so it will be a further loss to US. Also, India uses human resource as a balance in trade. They allow US companies to sell stuff in India in luie of them highering indians abroad (which send a part of the salary back home to their family) or in India. If US applies an America first policy in everything then India has no incentive to allow these companies into India. Software companies are not creating super critical things which can't be replicated, specially by indians who are already working for Google, Facebook, etc who will lose their jobs. EDIT : Currently there are no tariffs on Tech companies. What are people even arguing ?
    - 8y ago
h1bslave 8y ago
You are genralizing here, not everyone who is from India works for the body shops you’ve mentioned. The body shops like TCS, Wipro etc exist because the rules allow it, they use temporary visas like B1 and L they try to get H1 but rarely do - outsourcing is different from immigration
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  You’re not even supposed to work on a B1... but of course that’s often abused. Pay someone in India to come work in the US for a few weeks/months... yeah that’s not really what I want either. They should be banned because they are a drain on the wages to the average worker and they’re used to bring over workers they can abuse, intimidate, over work, and under pay while stringing them along for a green card. It’s a scam that only benefits the billionaires.
ph0kz 8y ago
> I voted for Obama. I believe in immigration So, you are ok with blue collar American workers getting affected by the programs like DACA, TPS, illegal immigration etc., but when it comes to your white collar job, you don't like uncontrolled "driving down wages"?
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  DACA is for people who were brought over as kids. Not really their fault. What are we supposed to do send them to a country they never even grew up in? TPS? Like Vietnam war era refugees? I mean, you’re clearly trying to conflate some big differences in immigration... No, I’m for immigration that’s actually needed—like doctors and specialized researchers. But having worked for an immigration firm an seen what a lot of tech companies are doing, I can assure you it’s not for the benefit of the common man.
  - ph0kz 8y ago
    Irrespective of the reason for non-citizens to be here, It could drive down wages. You, an Obama voter is echoing the sentiments of Trump supporters that the immigrants, illegal or otherwise is hurting American citizens.
    - diogenescynic 8y ago
      Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. I’m for letting immigrants into the country—but giving an unlimited number of visas to companies to bring over underpaid workers hurts everyone.
throwaway8611 8y ago
There are many kinds of people on H1Bs. There are people that are brought here by the consultancies you mention and there are graduates from American Universities who get H1Bs after or during their OPT. While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up. In both these cases, there are a mixture of really good people, really bad people who got lucky and everything in between. I also know that there are rampant scams that involve faking Resumes to fake universities, however, there are many many many good people still holding out in the hope that this backlog for Indian's and some other countries resolves and lets them lead a better life. However, according to this article[1], the number of open positions in Programming and Comp Sci. was about 500k and the US produced about 50-60k grads a year, 85k H1Bs wouldn't be enough to take all the jobs and flood the job market. Also, from my own experience, I make over $250k as a Software Engineer, stuck on an H1B forever, while people who were born in other countries get to move on to a Green Card, even if they earn less than that. My company interviews hundreds of people, settling for 'good enough' and yet struggles to fill many open positions. [1] https://qz.com/929275/you-probably-should-have-majored-in-computer-science/ https://qz.com/929275/you-probably-should-have-majored-in-co...
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  Either you’re lying or misinformed. The data is obviously available, the government has to approve the applications... there are literally dozens of websites that track this “h-1b salary info” and yes they are usually underpaid compared to their peers of comparable skills. I have linked plenty of studies in prior comments. See my above comment showing most are underpaid. Then train local candidates or do apprenticeships. It’s a lie that local workers can’t do the work. Most h-1b is not the complex work... it’s the QA and grunt work. The skills gap is a myth: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i...
- briandear 8y ago
  > While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up. Then why would Disney fired experienced workers to H1Bs? Where the H1Bs that the experienced workers actually trained, more experienced? Clearly not. There is no universe where it could be argued that Disney had a shortage of skilled workers given that they fired the very skilled workers they claimed a shortage of. > My company interviews hundreds of people, settling for 'good enough' and yet struggles to fill many open positions. You know how you don't struggle to fill open positions? You raise the salary offered, improve the benefits, the working conditions. Netflix doesn't have a shortage of workers, but Cisco might. Compare the pay differences between those two companies and you'll quickly understand what "shortage" really means. I find it extremely hard to believe there's a shortage of entry level sysadmins, yet you'll find plenty of H1Bs working sysadmin jobs while experienced Americans sit on the sidelines because their salary requirements are too high (meaning, they expect something more than $75k per year in the Bay Area.) That doesn't define a shortage -- those workers do exist but H1B is cheaper. Of course, there are outliers like those ultra-genius Nobel winner-level people -- however, there's an "O" visa for that category of extraordinary high achiever. Your average H1B is not particularly extraordinary. I've never in my life met anyone working for Infosys that I'd trust to program an alarm clock, let alone trust with mission critical code. However, I've also worked with a few extraordinary H1Bs -- people far smarter than I'll ever be -- but those are certainly the exception in terms of statistics of the visa.

baby 8y ago

> most Americans would probably be happier with fewer H-1Bs America's education system is pretty poor. It would be nothing without H1Bs. Take it from Michio Kaku[1]: "The United States has the worst education system known to science. Our graduates compete regularly at the level of third world countries. How come the scientific establishment of the US doesn't collapse. If we are producing a generation of dummy. If the stupid index of America keeps rising every year [...] how come the scientific establishment of the US doesn't collapse. Let me tell you something. America has a secret weapon. That secret weapon is the H1B. Without the H1B the scientific establishment of this country would collapse. Forget about Google, forget about Silicon Valley, there would not be a Silicon Valley without the H1B. [...] You realize that in the US 50% of all PhD candidates are foreign born. [...]" the rest of the video is pretty good too. I recommend watching it. > There should be a $150k-$200k minimum on bringing over specialized knowledge workers This is stupid because you are privileging fields that can afford theses wages. Plenty of over fields which are not IT are in need of foreign experts and cannot afford to pay these salaries. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fphPeRvhjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fphPeRvhjQ

diogenescynic 8y ago
If there’s a quota to specialized knowledge workers, give them to the highest paid thus the most needed. Shouldn’t be given out in some stupid lottery... I want them to bring in people making the highest wages so they contribute the most to the economy. Not these $70k H-1Bs with fake work locations. Not going to bother defending our education system since so many foreigners are trying to get into our colleges, I’d say we’re fine. Also, the skills gap is a myth: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i... Still lots of other issues I pointed out.
- baby 8y ago
  Then you're losing on diversity.
  - diogenescynic 8y ago
    No. We have an entire other immigration category for that...
- temp4358 8y ago
  Except the top colleges like MIT, stanford, etc, most foreigners get into US colleges because it is an easier path to get a work visa in US, that's it. Also, the 70k h1-B are currently working in US, so they pay US taxes. If they are not allowed, most of the work will be outsourced (and a lot of that has already been), so it will be a further loss to US. Also, India uses human resource as a balance in trade. They allow US companies to sell stuff in India in luie of them highering indians abroad (which send a part of the salary back home to their family) or in India. If US applies an America first policy in everything then India has no incentive to allow these companies into India. Software companies are not creating super critical things which can't be replicated, specially by indians who are already working for Google, Facebook, etc who will lose their jobs. EDIT : Currently there are no tariffs on Tech companies. What are people even arguing ?
  - 8y ago

h1bslave 8y ago

You are genralizing here, not everyone who is from India works for the body shops you’ve mentioned. The body shops like TCS, Wipro etc exist because the rules allow it, they use temporary visas like B1 and L they try to get H1 but rarely do - outsourcing is different from immigration

diogenescynic 8y ago
You’re not even supposed to work on a B1... but of course that’s often abused. Pay someone in India to come work in the US for a few weeks/months... yeah that’s not really what I want either. They should be banned because they are a drain on the wages to the average worker and they’re used to bring over workers they can abuse, intimidate, over work, and under pay while stringing them along for a green card. It’s a scam that only benefits the billionaires.

ph0kz 8y ago

> I voted for Obama. I believe in immigration So, you are ok with blue collar American workers getting affected by the programs like DACA, TPS, illegal immigration etc., but when it comes to your white collar job, you don't like uncontrolled "driving down wages"?

diogenescynic 8y ago
DACA is for people who were brought over as kids. Not really their fault. What are we supposed to do send them to a country they never even grew up in? TPS? Like Vietnam war era refugees? I mean, you’re clearly trying to conflate some big differences in immigration... No, I’m for immigration that’s actually needed—like doctors and specialized researchers. But having worked for an immigration firm an seen what a lot of tech companies are doing, I can assure you it’s not for the benefit of the common man.
- ph0kz 8y ago
  Irrespective of the reason for non-citizens to be here, It could drive down wages. You, an Obama voter is echoing the sentiments of Trump supporters that the immigrants, illegal or otherwise is hurting American citizens.
  - diogenescynic 8y ago
    Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. I’m for letting immigrants into the country—but giving an unlimited number of visas to companies to bring over underpaid workers hurts everyone.

throwaway8611 8y ago

There are many kinds of people on H1Bs. There are people that are brought here by the consultancies you mention and there are graduates from American Universities who get H1Bs after or during their OPT. While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up. In both these cases, there are a mixture of really good people, really bad people who got lucky and everything in between. I also know that there are rampant scams that involve faking Resumes to fake universities, however, there are many many many good people still holding out in the hope that this backlog for Indian's and some other countries resolves and lets them lead a better life. However, according to this article[1], the number of open positions in Programming and Comp Sci. was about 500k and the US produced about 50-60k grads a year, 85k H1Bs wouldn't be enough to take all the jobs and flood the job market. Also, from my own experience, I make over $250k as a Software Engineer, stuck on an H1B forever, while people who were born in other countries get to move on to a Green Card, even if they earn less than that. My company interviews hundreds of people, settling for 'good enough' and yet struggles to fill many open positions. [1] https://qz.com/929275/you-probably-should-have-majored-in-computer-science/ https://qz.com/929275/you-probably-should-have-majored-in-co...

diogenescynic 8y ago
Either you’re lying or misinformed. The data is obviously available, the government has to approve the applications... there are literally dozens of websites that track this “h-1b salary info” and yes they are usually underpaid compared to their peers of comparable skills. I have linked plenty of studies in prior comments. See my above comment showing most are underpaid. Then train local candidates or do apprenticeships. It’s a lie that local workers can’t do the work. Most h-1b is not the complex work... it’s the QA and grunt work. The skills gap is a myth: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i...
briandear 8y ago
> While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up. Then why would Disney fired experienced workers to H1Bs? Where the H1Bs that the experienced workers actually trained, more experienced? Clearly not. There is no universe where it could be argued that Disney had a shortage of skilled workers given that they fired the very skilled workers they claimed a shortage of. > My company interviews hundreds of people, settling for 'good enough' and yet struggles to fill many open positions. You know how you don't struggle to fill open positions? You raise the salary offered, improve the benefits, the working conditions. Netflix doesn't have a shortage of workers, but Cisco might. Compare the pay differences between those two companies and you'll quickly understand what "shortage" really means. I find it extremely hard to believe there's a shortage of entry level sysadmins, yet you'll find plenty of H1Bs working sysadmin jobs while experienced Americans sit on the sidelines because their salary requirements are too high (meaning, they expect something more than $75k per year in the Bay Area.) That doesn't define a shortage -- those workers do exist but H1B is cheaper. Of course, there are outliers like those ultra-genius Nobel winner-level people -- however, there's an "O" visa for that category of extraordinary high achiever. Your average H1B is not particularly extraordinary. I've never in my life met anyone working for Infosys that I'd trust to program an alarm clock, let alone trust with mission critical code. However, I've also worked with a few extraordinary H1Bs -- people far smarter than I'll ever be -- but those are certainly the exception in terms of statistics of the visa.