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In a Hot Labor Market, Some Employees Are 'Ghosting' Bad Bosses
- blakesterz 8y agoThat's a decent headline, I feel like if this story was somewhere else it would be something like "A HUGE JUMP IN GHOSTING" or something silly. The article says "There's no official data on ghosting at work." so all they can really say it's maybe going up now. "Some Employees" seems like a good choice of words there.
- MrMember 8y agoNPR isn't perfect, but in my experience they're leagues ahead of most other major news outlets.
- projectramo 8y agoThe problem with ghosting -- all forms of ghosting -- isn't that you break up or quit but that you don't bother to tell the other person. While the break up/quit might be initiated more often when one has "market power", there is no reason people should become less or more polite while doing so. To put it another way, you might job hop more if the market is hot just as you may date more if you are very attractive, but that doesn't mean you can or should be less polite.
- Retra 8y agoDating doesn't involve an HR department, legalese, and contractual obligations.
- moate 8y agoThe assumption that an employer deserves information from me as an employee is rather bold unless it was specifically put into my contract. I was hired for a specific task, and while many people accept being data-mined as "just part of the job", I'm not being paid for it. Put it another way, it's not my job to be polite. It's nice, and helpful, and might help me do my job. But that isn't the job itself. All employment is transactional. Period. (edited for grammar)
- projectramo 8y agoI am curious as to what you mean by this. Sure it isn't your "job" and nothing bad may happen to you. Just as nothing bad will happen to you if you berate a small child without reason. Even if there is no punishment or heaven/hell, and there are not legal issues, that doesn't mean you should not be a kind person. If it doesn't cost you anything and it will make the life of your employer (or a complete stranger for that matter), I suggest you go ahead and do it. I don't have an argument for why. I assume as a fellow human being you just see that it is a good (TM) thing.
- moate 8y ago1- I work with people, but I work for a company. This is an extremely important point to clarify. I don't work for people, even if the company is represented by people. 2- Being kind is great. Love it. Do it all the time. Here's where the problem comes in with your hypothetical, and my baseline assumption: "If it doesn't cost you anything and it will make the life of your employer (or a complete stranger for that matter), I suggest you go ahead and do it." This Is A Bold Assumption You Are Making Quitting a job isn't easy. There's going to be guilt. There's going to be stress. And, based on the title of the article, you have a bad boss. What form this "bad" takes can be a million different things, but it's safe to say that having a shitty conversation with a bad boss is going to cost me "something" (even if it's just my time). Respect is earned. That's my starting point. If I no-call no-show, it's because I don't respect you enough to care about the damage it will cause the company. I'm generally not a blatant asshole, so something probably happened in order for me to feel this way. If we want to go down this rabbit hole, it gets to crazy levels of ethical questions (is it "good" to quit a job you're great at just because you don't like it, since that will cause problems for the person who has to train your replacement and they likely won't do it as well as you, potentially costing the company money in losses, etc .) My summary is this: If I'm ghosting you, it's probably you're fault. You should take this time to reflect on why you sucked so bad that I wouldn't even have the decency to call you to let you know I quit. YMMV.
- Chris_Chambers 8y agoI believe this is called slave morality.
- stronglikedan 8y agoThe only real problem with it is that some people don't realize how small the world can be sometimes, and how easy it is to unexpectedly encounter a previously burned bridge. This is especially true in specialized professions. There's nothing wrong with ghosting acquaintances or colleagues, especially those that have slighted you in some way, but it's definitely not polite to do it to friends or family, which you're connected to at a deeper level. Just know that there's a potential trade-off in that it may come back to bite you someday, such as when the person they just hired to be your new boss turns out to be your old boss.
- worldstarhiphop 8y agoYes, and please also remember that it's not polite to tell other employees how much you're being paid, or threaten to leave when asking for a raise.
- NittLion78 8y agoI have only crocodile tears for bad employers in this scenario, but in my mind, the main reason behind the 2 week customary notice is it's for your coworkers, not really for who is writing your checks. It can be a real dick move to the worker bees when someone up and walks with a bunch of domain knowledge without warning, especially if they now have no way to recoup it from you.
- ozzyman700 8y agoIs lack of shared knowledge the responsibility of the employee though?
- Phlarp 8y agoHighest of double standards. There is not a thought to institutional knowledge when layoffs go out.
- reaperducer 8y agoin my mind, the main reason behind the 2 week customary notice is it's for your coworkers, not really for who is writing your checks. I believe it goes back to pre-internet days in order to give the payroll department time to pull you out of the process for the next round of checks, and has just become customary since then.
- hopler 8y agoThis is non-news. People have been walking away from jobs forever. That's way employment policies have rules about when persist absence is considered a resignation.
- howard941 8y agoAgreed. My employer's handbook calls it abandonment.
- JackFr 8y agoAt a place I worked about 20 years ago, new hire in my group goes out lunch on his first day and never comes back. It was an amusing non-event but the VP continually gave my boss grief for not taking the new hire out to lunch on his first day, as if that were the cause. I'm pretty sure the guy had another offer and was just sort of trying this one out. But my boss was diligent after that about taking new hires out to lunch on their first day.
- conanbatt 8y agoUntil one day, your boss didn't come back from lunch. So the VP now has to ban lunches.
- anchpop 8y agoA company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it is good for their bottom line, with no respect for your personal well-being. However, I feel that informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me
- masklinn 8y ago> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". It's not like that sort of company puts a single dime in "common decency" when time comes for layoffs or firing people, instead they get company security and their stuff shoved in a cardboard box. If the company is decent and you're quitting because you've found a great job or you think you deserve a raise and they don't agree, sure put in your two weeks and everything. The article specifically talks about bad bosses though, so that probably ain't the subject.
- Nuzzerino 8y ago> Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". People seem to forget that quitting with no notice also screws one's co-workers. And often times it's the "innocent" co-workers that are affected the worst. I've learned far too late in life that there is never a justification for being a jerk, especially as the unintended and unwanted side effects will reap subtle mayhem around you.
- dfxm12 8y agoDon't equate "your boss" with "the company". You're absolutely right, your boss could be the reason you're quitting, but by and large, your boss is probably just another cog in the same machine that is causing you grief as well.
- 8y ago
- oasisbob 8y agoWith at-will employment and layoffs being what they are, the only thing gauche about this would seem to be the lack of notification to the employer. Having seen several mass "firing-squad" style layoffs where there's a meeting and some go right while others go left, I've always wondered why two-weeks notice is so engrained culturally when an employee decides to leave on their own.
- EpicEng 8y ago>I've always wondered why two-weeks notice is so engrained culturally when an employee decides to leave on their own. I'm torn. On one hand, just not showing up is a pretty crappy thing to do to anyone in any situation. On the other, you're right; a company may be perfectly fine leaving you high and dry without notice. Sometimes people in our position get severance or even a heads up, but often times people don't. It's not fair, but I suppose the reality is that many will want a good recommendation, but no one pegs the boss with a layoff.
- paulie_a 8y agoDo people actually call for recommendations? Hell I just use a coworker I worked extensively with. I've been asked to be a recommendation by previous co-workers and rarely get a call. It has declined over the past ten years. References seem to be a dead thing. It's a waste of time. Of course they are going to be positive. I can't imagine someone would list a reference where they say "fuck that person"
- crankylinuxuser 8y agoThere's even services that you can pay, that will claim to be the so_and_so's supervisor or colleague or whomever to play the references game. They are indeed worthless. Well, unless you're going through clearance paperwork that requires proof of people for things you say happen. Don't like there. It will come back and bite you; with felonies.
- paulie_a 8y ago
- paulcole 8y agoI've done this before for a job that wasn't worth the stress and hassle. Unplugged my phone and went out of town for a week. One of the best decisions I've ever made.
- sol_remmy2 8y agoHow come employers can't blacklist these badly behaving employees who don't give any notice before they quit? Because government regulations only allows past employers to verify that 1) yes the employee worked here 2) this was his job title and 3) these are the date ranges when he worked. Telling anything about "was he a good employee or not" is grounds for a lawsuit. That has removed incentives for employees to give notice before they quit.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- raverbashing 8y agoFunny, after years of recruiters and bosses having the upper hand they suddenly find out that what comes around goes around. It is bad practice, but it seems it is justifiable sometimes (like the water park case)
- maxxxxx 8y agoIt's justifiable but it's kind of sad that there is a downward spiral of bad behavior.
- mnm1 8y agoWay to go Kris. I agree with him: if ghosting will cost the employer more and that employer has disrespected you, go for the ghosting. It is indeed easily as much a statement and as satisfying as any other method of quitting. So many employers treat their employees like shit that I feel this is what they should expect in probably 90% or more of cases. Employers' complaints will fall on deaf ears when they have been abusing employees for literally the entire existence of this relationship throughout history. Even jobs that pay well and have great perks (tech for example) often treat their employees like shit and then they complain that they can't hire enough or retain their employees. I generally prefer to always send a note and make things clear, but if I could hurt the employer who hurt me more by ghosting, I would definitely do that. Employers should learn how to respect their employees if they don't want this and other things to happen to them. Otherwise, they deserve this and worse. They could have paid the couple thousand Kris requested and was promised in raises instead of losing $20k but they were assholes. They got what they deserved those fucking pieces of shit.
- paradygm 8y agoYou do realize in that $15-$20k is all of the other employees' pay for that day?
- yummypaint 8y agoits the same amount of money, but not their pay
- hkon 8y agoIn IT recruiting, which I am exposed to since I have a linked-in account, there is a constant buzz of recruiters reaching out cold. I don't feel any obligation to answer them back about this and that. Because if you do, then they make you feel really bad about letting them down. I fear that this will be another term that LinkedIn recruiters can throw in your face to make you respond. "Are you ghosting me???"
- throwaway5752 8y ago1. In a layoff your boss doesn't fire you, most of the time they don't want to lose anyone. It happens above their level. 2. If you think a corporation gives no-warning layoffs is wrong, then don't reciprocate, take the high road. It's nursery school level life advice: "two wrongs don't make a right" 3. If you are young, the world may seem big. It is not. It is small. There's a good chance you'll run across your boss or a friend of their's in future. Don't burn bridges. 4. It is generally considered polite to offer 2 weeks, offer extra time to ensure an orderly transition, to do as much as possible to make sure there are no difficult loose ends for a successor, and to leave your contact info with an offer to help if any questions come up. Just be decent and you will live a happier life.
- masklinn 8y ago> 1. In a layoff your boss doesn't fire you, most of the time they don't want to lose anyone. It happens above their level. That's relevant how? > 2. If you think a corporation gives no-warning layoffs is wrong, then don't reciprocate, take the high road. It's nursery school level life advice: "two wrongs don't make a right" Here's more nursery school level life advice: respect is a two-way street. > 3. If you are young, the world may seem big. It is not. It is small. You may run across your boss or a friend of their's in future. Don't burn bridges. Or do, life's too short to keep building bridges into raging tire fires. > 4. It is generally considered polite to offer 2 weeks, offer extra time to ensure an orderly transition, to do as much as possible to make sure there are no difficult loose ends for a successor, and to leave your contact info with an offer to help if any questions come up. Meanwhile the company's happy upending your life overnight with no forewarning and not giving a damn about "orderly transition". If it wants orderly transition, how about it pays for it?
- sokoloff 8y ago> If it wants orderly transition, how about it pays for it? In every tech industry lay-off I’ve been around, the company has paid severance equal to or longer than any typical employee quitting notice period. IOW, IMO, they are paying for it in general.
- randomacct3847 8y agoAt the same time as I read this, I’m reading about upset 20 and 30-something Buzzfeed reporters getting laid off after 2-7 years there. I guess it is never great to be involuntarily let go from a company, but if you have the mindset that jobs are fluid (both ways) then getting laid off should not be viewed as the end of the world or something you or others around you should feel sorry about.
- rosseloh 8y agoI can't speak for everyone, but this 20/30-something was raised in a family of careerists. My dad only just left his job of 28 years for another one. My grandpa before him was with the same company for nearly 40, I believe. I'm not saying that thinking of jobs as fluid is a bad thing. But I was raised in the mindset that "you find a good job and you stick with it", even if that mindset really doesn't fit with today's job market. (unfortunately, to my mind...I'd love nothing more than to be able to give a company my loyalty in return for theirs)
- blfr 8y agoMarket for journalists has been steadily contracting. They're upset because they will likely not get a job with anything near the kind of power journalism afforded them, even if it's for more money.
- deadmetheny 8y agoThey should just learn to code, like all those coal miners who lost their jobs.
- notfromhere 8y agowhat a dumb sentiment, the world needs reporters just as much as they need coders
- deadmetheny 8y agoAh yes, Buzzfeed reporters, the finest and most reputable of journalists, the world is most definitely reeling from the loss of their jobs.
- xwvvvvwx 8y agoAs pointed out by the article, this is forcing employers to treat their workers better. Despite it’s brutal distortions, the labour market does sometimes work in the advantage of workers.
- duxup 8y agoIt really doesn't take much to say "hey I quit". In fact the only really bad situation I was in, I really looked forward to telling them. I get the arguments about a bad boss and such, but be the adult and tell them. Hell telling them might be the best part. I sorta suspect some of this is actually social awkwardness and folks avoiding an uncomfortable discussion more than it is some big social commentary about "bosses bad we have the power now".
- lordnacho 8y agoRemote work puts a spin on this. If someone is remote and not logging in, there's just not much to do about it for the employer. Is the person ill? Are they just using the flexibility to work at different times? Should you keep paying them?
- maxxxxx 8y agoI have seen that before with a contractor. After two weeks of silence I assumed he was done.
- le-mark 8y agoI heard stories of a guy who did this; was local, then went remote, and then didn't vpn in for months. There was a whole story around it, but ended up taking management a few more months to get him fired. This was a process heavy company obviously. But this AWOL person made at least 6 months of salary for not doing a damn thing.
- fujimotos 8y agoI'm seeing this right now. Worse, he is doing a minimum thing so he won't get fired outright (e.g. responding to internal chat many many hours late with a single word "yup").
- motohagiography 8y agoWhile I haven't ghosted anyone, if you are sure you will not be able to get an honest reference from them because they were dishonest people, if they say you ghosted them, at least it's clear to anyone asking that there is another side to the story. Let's say you worked at a Theranos, your options are a) to quit amicably with the real risk they will try to discredit you to protect their reputation, b) stay and become compromised until you are thrown under the bus and fired, or c) cut off all contact and create uncertainty about how much leverage you could have while you move on and rebuild. Barring martyring yourself as a whistle blower with or without evidence, c) looks pretty good. Looking back viewed through a lens like this, I can say people could even regret not-ghosting some former employers.
- sevensor 8y agoI had a co-worker pull this once. Let's call him Larry. Larry is not his name. It wasn't because of management, although Larry was not a great fan of the management. It's because there was a woman in our work group Larry was head-over-heels in love with. She resigned the right way, with several weeks' notice, because she and her husband were moving to another state. (Larry was not her husband.) Her last day at work was the last time we ever saw or heard from Larry.
- cafard 8y agoI have always given two weeks notice. I was not necessarily crazy about those I gave it to, but none of the employers truly counted as toxic. I have seen co-workers simply vanish. This did not necessarily have to do with their disagreements with the employer. It was disconcerting. Did the guy fall off the face of the earth?
- jackconnor 8y agoThis isn't the classiest thing you can do, and a little risky if someone took it way too personally, but not the worst thing inn the world. But, ultimately, this is strong feedback to the employer that something is wrong with a manager or person, and at least deserves a closer look.
- pascalxus 8y agoI mean, it's just another case of companies not paying their employees enough or not showing enough gratitude/valuing their workers. Employers just need to learn and understand the basics of how supply and demand work - I guess a lot of CEO and managers skipped that class or something. You pay more, you get more applicants. You treat them well/pay them well, they'll stick with you.
- danschumann 8y agoMorally, I would do the traditional notice ( 2 weeks at least ), because I try to "honor everyone".. but this would be harder if I had a bad boss and could start somewhere else immediately. I'd still probably do my best to make sure everyone is taken care of. As with bad service at a restaurant, I still leave a normal tip, because it reflects more on me than on the server.
- joejerryronnie 8y agoI think ghosting is all about avoiding the anxiety of a stressful situation. It’s easier to just ignore calls and texts than to actually have to tell someone face to face that you don’t want them anymore (whether that’s a boss or a partner). There is no other “noble” purpose of ghosting, like sticking it to the man. It’s just a childish way of dealing with something.
- acomjean 8y agoI suspect you are right. Its not easy quiting face to face, much easier not showing up. I wonder though. If the company or people you know there would report you missing... I've quit two jobs with notice. I'm a little bit conflict averse, and had a hard time doing it. Like many things its not easy to tell your boss you are leaving, especially if they job wasn't particularly bad and your boss is decent. For one I was going back to school, thats easier. The first one I actually said the company will survive without me, which got a chuckle.
- at-fates-hands 8y agoI had a buddy (I'll call him Alex) with whom I've worked with at several contracting gigs. Good guy, and has gotten me some pretty lucrative roles, but drama followed the guy wherever he went. I've worked with him on at least five short term contracts roles. Every single one he ghosted for one reason or another. First one - We were both hired as FED's. It was at a large corporation. We got about a week in and he tells me was put on active duty (he was in the Army) and just ghosted. Never told the manager, myself, nobody. Manager starts pressing me because the recruiter can't get a hold of him. I tell the manager I don't have any contact info for him and told the manager he told me he got put back on active duty. Second one - "Hey bud, we're together again at XYZ company!!" Was the email I got from him over LinkedIN. First day I ask the manager where he was as we were friends and worked together before. Manager says he has no idea where he is. Three days later, three more no calls/no shows. Disappears again. I can't get him on gmail chat, linkedin, nothing. Just gone again. Third one - I recommended him to a hiring manager who was desperate for bodies. I wasn't happy, and told Alex this gig is a dumpster fire and not to take the gig. He didn't listen. Shows up the first day, gets his laptop, and is constantly at my desk, "Dude, why are they doing stuff this way? This is so stupid." Second day worked a half day and just left out the blue and that was it. Took his MacBook Pro with him and ghosted everybody again. I left a few weeks later so I'm not sure they ever got their laptop back. Fourth one - He was already working at a cool gig and got me an interview and then I landed another FED role with him. The two projects they were banking on evaporated and got canceled. They started laying off people in droves. The area we sat in had maybe 25 contractors. Within a week, we were down to 12. After that first week, he figured he was next so he just stopped showing up, but he kept filling out his timesheet. Found out later they paid him for three weeks he never showed up for. Last one - in 2013, we both were hired at this sweet startup. First month things are peachy. I figure maybe this is it, Alex finally got his shit together and he'll actually stick around. Nope. Second month, things started getting harder. Crunch time was coming around. Longer days, nose to the grindstone, all that. The following week Monday he's a NC/NS again. By Wednesday, I start hearing things. By Friday, in a 1:1 with my manager, he asks me if I can get a hold of Alex for him. I ask why. He tells me on Tuesday, he got a voicemail from Alex saying, "Loved working there, love you guys, but I'm fleeing the country, I'll mail my laptop back when I get to where I'm going." I just told the manager, "While that is pretty crazy, I'm not really surprised." That was the last time I heard from until a recruiter called this year me asking about him because he was putting him in for an interview at one of the clients, a big Fortune 500 company. I honestly had no idea how to respond to the idea he could continue to be gainfully employed after all the shit he's pulled on multiple companies and multiple recruiters.
- elindbe2 8y agoI personally find ghosting to be a quite useful strategy in a limited range of scenarios. The scenario is basically whenever you need to reject someone but rejecting them directly would lead to significant costs to you (e.g. having to listen to someone argue, cajole or shout at you to change your mind). I think the rejectees can reduce the incidence of ghosting by eliminating those costs. If someone rejects you, simply accept the rejection without complaint.
- renholder 8y ago>If someone rejects you, simply accept the rejection without complaint. Ghosting and rejecting are not immediately synonymous to someone who's never been ghosted before. In fact, ghosting is still a relatively new term, in this sense, confined to originating within this decade (I believe). Stating for someone to simply accept the rejection without complaint is expecting it to be a standard everywhere, when that most probably is not going to be the case. Ghosting seems to specific to the American culture and, even then, this doesn't implicitly mean that everyone will "get the hint", as it were, if they've never been exposed to it before.
- elindbe2 8y agoI'm not claiming ghosting and rejection are synonymous. Rather, I'm saying ghosting is a useful way of rejecting someone in certain circumstances. I'm also not claiming that one can completely eliminate ghosting by accepting rejection, but I think you'll find it reduced.
- drugme 8y agoA very limited range of scenarios. Like (in the dating or social context) when the other party has already crossed some important line in some fashion (e.g. by acting outright abusively). In the vast majority of cases, it's really much better all around to at least try to close the loop properly and decently -- even if it runs the risk of some "cost" to yourself (which in most cases - such as having someone argue with you - really is quite trivial).
- deleted 8y ago
- m-i-l 8y ago"... on a busy summer day, Kris didn't show up to open the park ... I ultimately caused the shutdown of the water park" Am I the only one concerned about the lack of respect this shows to customers? Some families might have travelled a long way to get there as a special day out, there would certainly be large numbers of disappointed children, etc. Having a grievance with your boss and/or employer is one thing, but making innocent bystanders suffer as a result is something else completely.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- hdiudfhrh 8y agoIf one guy closes the whole park that's a failure of management.
- civilian 8y agoIs this not a management problem? A manager disrespected an employee so much that the employee didn't even let anyone know they weren't showing up. The ex-employee contains some blame. But what they did was probably rational and _just_ from their point of view. As a manager you need to not stack up abuse on the employee to make this rational. And you need to have people you trust to open the park, if one missing person can shut down the park.
- Phlarp 8y agoImagine having a business so fragile that a single employee failing to show up could take down the whole show. This is entry level business school stuff, and something anybody running a business will learn first hand very quickly. Would you have any sympathy for management that purposefully made sure they had a "bus factor" of one and then blamed that person when they inevitably got hit by our theoretical bus? Maybe apply the same logic the hardware resources if it helps to think of things with less of the emotion in talking about a person; The company has a single consumer grade PC running linux in the corner of a cubicle serving up the entire companies suite of applications, no load balancing or backups at all. Many devs and admins have come and gone recommending a more robust solution but management refuses to consider other options. Whose fault is it when it falls over?
- callinyouin 8y agoReading these comments, it seems like a lot of HNers don't understand how awful the power dynamic can be between workers and bosses outside of a tech/white-collar context. Sure, office work can be toxic, but at places like bars, restaurants, fast food, etc. where workers are mostly unskilled and turnover is high, management can be outright exploitative. People who work for minimum wage generally have no leverage when it comes to how they're treated and often put up with a lot of abuse because if they quit and miss that next paycheck chances are they won't be able to make rent or buy food. Their bosses know this and the worst of them know exactly how to exploit it. I've heard plenty of horror stories, mostly including your typical verbal abuse and sexual harassment, but a surprising amount were more extreme. Things like threats of violence and extortion. This pales in comparison to some of the things I've heard, but at one job I was called "retarded" by my boss on my first day and it only got worse from there. I didn't ghost, but I did quit on the spot once I had my fill. That employer didn't deserve a 2 week notice, and 13 years later I still stand by that. Due to the power dynamic people will put up with this for months, even years, on end. When a worker has had enough is it really any surprise they would ghost? Can you really blame them?
- throwaway5752 8y agoSo, it's been a while, but I have worked some of the jobs you mentioned. I didn't find management or coworkers substantially better or worse than in software/white collar. Not to say everyone was angels, I'm just saying it was comparable to software, which has its share of jerks (sometimes that has included me). Agree with you that power dynamic is different, as is corporate structure (intrinsically more site/region based) that also makes it harder to report an abusive person in the chain. But it sounds like you had a truly abusive manager, and you still didn't ghost, to your credit.
- FilterSweep 8y agoI had to blink at this headline. It’s 2019 and it appears this headline was better fit for 5 years ago. I work as a dev, and I still have to climb through hoops and spend money on multiple technical interviews to get hired. Friends in other industries will sometimes even have it harder. Where are these plentiful jobs? Where is this labor market so great that employees can just walk out on a whim? This seems like NPR is out of touch.
- the_watcher 8y agoThis has been covered by far more than NPR - unemployment is at its lowest number in years, and labor force participation is actually up (so it's not that the rate is declining because people are simply leaving the workforce). The difference is that the vast majority of jobs are low skill, meaning that if another firm will offer a better deal, it's very easy for employees to simply walk. If you wanted to get _a_ job, you'd easily be able to. Wages, however, are not growing at the same rate, which is probably more related to your experience.
- expathacker 8y agoI recently began a new position at a company which has had a bit of turbulence in the past year. While getting up to speed someone said, "We had this other guy a while back who was great, but he ghosted us and we didn't realized it until we checked our AAA logs to see when he had last authenticated". I wondered if it was an old colleague of mine with a 15+ year reputation for ghosting employers when he was burned out, so I asked, and of course it was. I usually leave on good enough terms to have a conversation with my boss, but I ghosted an incredibly abusive employer once, and it felt pretty good.
- siruncledrew 8y agoWhat I've seen from working in an office floor of ~70 people: - Ghosting is w/e but seems kinda petty or social awkward depending on the circumstance. People have ghosted before, and the office still went on pretty much as normal. It's only annoying to other employees when the person ghosting drops a huge unexpected load of work on their old coworkers or project team. Then it screws over innocent bystanders more than bosses. - Employers/Employees sometimes try to go tit-for-tat on being an asshole to each other. Usually nobody wins in this case. Sometimes it gets quite childish where employees complain about bosses to management, then bosses come back and complain about employees, and there's a cycle of bitterness until one side wears down the other. Get out if that happens. - Instances of asshole behavior: 1. There was an issue from upper management to a manager, who then passed off the project to his team. The manager and the team put in a lot of work on the project (stayed late some days to get a faster turnaround to the execs) saying this would make their team look really good. After the project was complete, the manager passed it over to the execs and basically took credit for the entire thing without giving individual acknowledgement to the team. Total dick move. 2. A guy was laid off, and decided to give the boss a piece of his mind. It went from "Yea!" to "Yikes.." At first he summarized what was wrong with the workplace, which was cool. However, then it got into a diatribe about how personally awful the boss and management are. A lot of insults were said. He said the boss's daughter (who was a part-time intern) was a "slut-looking nepotistic dumbass", then pushed a bunch of stuff off a desk and said he would "mail, ring, and email" the boss everyday to tell him how terrible he was until he killed himself. Funny thing was after this was over, the guy left and put his hand up for a high-five from his coworkers like "I showed him!". 3. Another person really didn't like their job roles, and thought they would be totally different based on the interviews. He ended up taking another job a few months after being hired, but not before deleting all of his work and a repository that took hours to restore as a sort of "F U" for wasting his time with work he wasn't interested in doing. That was actually super annoying, and all of us remembered that guy for it. 4. Corporate "trialed" no timesheets by doing data analysis on badge detections to tell when employees were coming/leaving instead. It took no time before people realized it's a malicious convenience offering, and it was (supposedly) ended. The corporate thought behind it was pretty disrespectful and micro-managing. Bonus: One time a manager and employee were fired for working together to sell credit card numbers from legitimate B2B sales on the darkweb as a "side hustle".
- drugme 8y agoI'm all for quitting on the spot, when the situation merits. And for costing the company $15k to $20k -- again, when the situation merits. As it appears to have done in this case. But still - given the overall narrative of the situation, it sill would be been a lot classier to have given proper notice in this case. Something short and sweet like: "I've been trying for several weeks to work with bring my compensation in line with the very clear promises you made several months ago, but unfortunately you've been consistently unresponsive. I am now left with no choice but to terminate my services immediately. Sincerely, Kris would be a lot easier to look back on (and explain to future employers) - and would have definitely gotten the message across.
- dandare 8y agoNever by loyal to a company. Company is not a person, it can never be loyal to you and it will alway protect the interest of the shareholder. Be loyal to your boss if he deserves it, but never to a legal entity.
- yummypaint 8y agoI hope people trapped in toxic or unsafe work environments use this opportunity to ghost and make it a more common tactic. I think of it as a one time strike that your employer is powerless to prevent. Eventually management will catch on and factor ghosting into their cost-benefit analysis. I think overall the effect would be positive (unless you make your living exploiting others). People in places with crippled labor laws should consider coordinated ghosting. If the bargaining power attainable through a union has been whittled away to the point that ghosting provides more leverage, then ghosting should be adopted. The more common the tactic becomes, the less potential downside for people who adopt it.