8 ms·

I run Ubuntu on three machines and never in a million years would I set it up for my parents. I still struggle with lots of little gotchas and annoying issues l

by city41 8y ago

I run Ubuntu on three machines and never in a million years would I set it up for my parents. I still struggle with lots of little gotchas and annoying issues like sometimes it just doesn't want to suspend. Or sometimes after resuming, the keyboard doesn't work so gotta unplug it and plug it back in. Sometimes my wifi just conks out for no apparent reason. On and on, just lots of little paper cuts. I switched my parents over to OSX years ago and have had to do almost no tech support at all. I really like Linux, but I still would argue that the OS that "just works" the most is still OSX.

bor0 8y ago
Exactly why I switched from Xubuntu to Mac 5 years ago. I just want to do my work, not fix my system after every minor upgrade.
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  The reccurring issue people seem to have with linux is that they use ubuntu. Just use a decent distro instead and see if that fixes your issues.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    Even Ubuntu is fine (this is coming from Fedora fan). If you are going for the long haul, do the following: - use LTS. You don't need every 6-mo release. - don't install packages from random ppas, if you don't know what they are doing to your system. Of course, do not install anything not managed by repositories, that would break your system (If I had a dime for every person that installed hplip/nvidia driver/etc from HP/Nvidia/etc site and just overwritten their apt-managed system files. It worked... until upgrade). My parents also use Ubuntu; they are using it since 6.06, on the current hardware since 12.04. Upgrading them between LTS releases is non-event, aside the UI changes.
  - jammygit 8y ago
    I always found Ubuntu to be easiest to use. No fighting to get GPU drivers to work, or other weird issues. Easy to install things when I was first learning too. Edit: I meant to ask what people are using that's more stable. Fedora you need to reinstall every few months, Debian has some 'rules to not break Debian' that seem to make it special purpose, centos hates my GPU, trisquel gets very rare updates. I know that all of this is solvable, but Ubuntu seems simpler to set and forget. Gnome is buggy though. I love it but I sure wish it ran better
gbil 8y ago
The problem you describe is mostly because of hardware. And you didn't switch to OSX, you switched them to Apple hardware with Apple software, not an OS switch. On well supported hardware for Linux I have my parents since many years on Fedora. I even just swapped the drive from an old Lenovo netbook to a newer Fujitsu laptop without any issues in between
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  "The problem you describe is mostly because of hardware." Which does not change the fact that they are still problems - no matter how unfair it is and how little the Linux-Community is to blame for it. I used Linux on many different machines - and sadly I can confirm lots of problems with hardware. Standby/Resume, etc.
  - thomastjeffery 8y ago
    The point here is that the solution is simply to get better hardware, which is much less expensive outside the Apple ecosystem.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - city41 8y ago
      In my experience the same hardware when ran under Windows does not have these issues. EDIT: also just want to say I'm not anti-Linux, I'm just being realistic. I understand Linux's history and how it has some disadvantages (and advantages). I'm just saying at the end of the day, my interest is a reliable machine, regardless of how I get there.
      - snazz 8y ago
        This is usually true until there’s a big Windows version upgrade (7 to 10, for example), and the manufacturer and/or the component OEMs decide to stop supporting their stuff with drivers.
hocuspocus 8y ago
My mom's NUC has never caused any trouble running the latest Ubuntu. Network printer, scanner, wireless mouse, webcam, bluetooth headphones, USB hard drives, sleep/hibernation... not a single problem.
- city41 8y ago
  Which NUC model is it? I looked into NUCs a couple years ago but at the time they had a reputation of not being great with Linux.
  - hocuspocus 8y ago
    https://ark.intel.com/products/76978/Intel-NUC-Kit-D34010WYK https://ark.intel.com/products/76978/Intel-NUC-Kit-D34010WYK Actually the Gigabyte Brix variant because I didn't want to buy the WiFi/bluetooth card separately. But it's the exact same mainboard.
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    I run Linux on the Skull Canyon NUC and it works great.
    - city41 8y ago
      This is great to hear. At one point I was considering that very NUC. I'm glad to hear Linux is working well on them.
    - Theodores 8y ago
      But do you have the skull lid/cover or the boring black one?
      - AsyncAwait 8y ago
        Of course the skull cover :-)
  - vetinari 8y ago
    I have a couple of NUC7i7DNKE and they are great with Linux. They even support AMT, if you ever needed that.
laumars 8y ago
It very much depends on what hardware you’re trying to run Linux on. I’ve never had a issue with most of my laptops (which have mostly been Samsung and ASUS machines) but ironically the one laptop that’s been the biggest pain point is my 2018 model MacBook Pro. I get why the Mac doesn’t play nicely with Linux and don’t blame the Mac for that per se but honestly even the stuff that does work correctly (USB-C, keyboard, etc) are still horrible to use so I definitely wouldn’t have been happy even if I’d left OSX in there. In fact I’d probably say getting a Mac was one of my stupidest career decisions of recent years. But anyhow, back on topic, it really depends on your hardware.
bigbugbag 8y ago
Well Ubuntu is a broken by design bleeding edge attempt to be microsoft with linux so it is not something I would use myself (ditched it 15 years ago) and even less install for people who are not computer literate with time on their hands. I have two main issues with OSX: it only works on overpriced hardware with no repairability and some things are hidden or very difficult to find when possible (sort of the civilized version of GNOME's way of removing settings and features and thinking the user is dumb).
zozbot123 8y ago
If "just works" is the relevant metric, it's hard to beat Debian stable - or CentOS, or perhaps OpenSUSE Leap. Sure, the things you might be able to easily achieve with them are quite limited. But the flip side is that they will chug along nicely and reliably for years upon years, with nary a hiccup aside from the occasional security update. That's the sort of "just works" that we - and our non-technical acquaintances - are most in need of!
pbreit 8y ago
Same. I would ===never=== burden my parents with Linux. Until recently, it would be Macs. But am starting to think ChromeOS might be superior.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
Yep. My parents can usually also find some kind of support system with a Mac, either on Google or if they must, at an Apple Store. I would never in a million years subject my parents to Linux on the desktop unless there is some kind of support system that is not entirely dependent on me.

by city41 8y ago

bor0 8y ago

Exactly why I switched from Xubuntu to Mac 5 years ago. I just want to do my work, not fix my system after every minor upgrade.

bigbugbag 8y ago
The reccurring issue people seem to have with linux is that they use ubuntu. Just use a decent distro instead and see if that fixes your issues.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Even Ubuntu is fine (this is coming from Fedora fan). If you are going for the long haul, do the following: - use LTS. You don't need every 6-mo release. - don't install packages from random ppas, if you don't know what they are doing to your system. Of course, do not install anything not managed by repositories, that would break your system (If I had a dime for every person that installed hplip/nvidia driver/etc from HP/Nvidia/etc site and just overwritten their apt-managed system files. It worked... until upgrade). My parents also use Ubuntu; they are using it since 6.06, on the current hardware since 12.04. Upgrading them between LTS releases is non-event, aside the UI changes.
- jammygit 8y ago
  I always found Ubuntu to be easiest to use. No fighting to get GPU drivers to work, or other weird issues. Easy to install things when I was first learning too. Edit: I meant to ask what people are using that's more stable. Fedora you need to reinstall every few months, Debian has some 'rules to not break Debian' that seem to make it special purpose, centos hates my GPU, trisquel gets very rare updates. I know that all of this is solvable, but Ubuntu seems simpler to set and forget. Gnome is buggy though. I love it but I sure wish it ran better

gbil 8y ago

The problem you describe is mostly because of hardware. And you didn't switch to OSX, you switched them to Apple hardware with Apple software, not an OS switch. On well supported hardware for Linux I have my parents since many years on Fedora. I even just swapped the drive from an old Lenovo netbook to a newer Fujitsu laptop without any issues in between

hutzlibu 8y ago
"The problem you describe is mostly because of hardware." Which does not change the fact that they are still problems - no matter how unfair it is and how little the Linux-Community is to blame for it. I used Linux on many different machines - and sadly I can confirm lots of problems with hardware. Standby/Resume, etc.
- thomastjeffery 8y ago
  The point here is that the solution is simply to get better hardware, which is much less expensive outside the Apple ecosystem.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - city41 8y ago
    In my experience the same hardware when ran under Windows does not have these issues. EDIT: also just want to say I'm not anti-Linux, I'm just being realistic. I understand Linux's history and how it has some disadvantages (and advantages). I'm just saying at the end of the day, my interest is a reliable machine, regardless of how I get there.
    - snazz 8y ago
      This is usually true until there’s a big Windows version upgrade (7 to 10, for example), and the manufacturer and/or the component OEMs decide to stop supporting their stuff with drivers.

hocuspocus 8y ago

My mom's NUC has never caused any trouble running the latest Ubuntu. Network printer, scanner, wireless mouse, webcam, bluetooth headphones, USB hard drives, sleep/hibernation... not a single problem.

city41 8y ago
Which NUC model is it? I looked into NUCs a couple years ago but at the time they had a reputation of not being great with Linux.
- hocuspocus 8y ago
  https://ark.intel.com/products/76978/Intel-NUC-Kit-D34010WYK https://ark.intel.com/products/76978/Intel-NUC-Kit-D34010WYK Actually the Gigabyte Brix variant because I didn't want to buy the WiFi/bluetooth card separately. But it's the exact same mainboard.
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  I run Linux on the Skull Canyon NUC and it works great.
  - city41 8y ago
    This is great to hear. At one point I was considering that very NUC. I'm glad to hear Linux is working well on them.
  - Theodores 8y ago
    But do you have the skull lid/cover or the boring black one?
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      Of course the skull cover :-)
- vetinari 8y ago
  I have a couple of NUC7i7DNKE and they are great with Linux. They even support AMT, if you ever needed that.

laumars 8y ago

It very much depends on what hardware you’re trying to run Linux on. I’ve never had a issue with most of my laptops (which have mostly been Samsung and ASUS machines) but ironically the one laptop that’s been the biggest pain point is my 2018 model MacBook Pro. I get why the Mac doesn’t play nicely with Linux and don’t blame the Mac for that per se but honestly even the stuff that does work correctly (USB-C, keyboard, etc) are still horrible to use so I definitely wouldn’t have been happy even if I’d left OSX in there. In fact I’d probably say getting a Mac was one of my stupidest career decisions of recent years. But anyhow, back on topic, it really depends on your hardware.

bigbugbag 8y ago

Well Ubuntu is a broken by design bleeding edge attempt to be microsoft with linux so it is not something I would use myself (ditched it 15 years ago) and even less install for people who are not computer literate with time on their hands. I have two main issues with OSX: it only works on overpriced hardware with no repairability and some things are hidden or very difficult to find when possible (sort of the civilized version of GNOME's way of removing settings and features and thinking the user is dumb).

zozbot123 8y ago

If "just works" is the relevant metric, it's hard to beat Debian stable - or CentOS, or perhaps OpenSUSE Leap. Sure, the things you might be able to easily achieve with them are quite limited. But the flip side is that they will chug along nicely and reliably for years upon years, with nary a hiccup aside from the occasional security update. That's the sort of "just works" that we - and our non-technical acquaintances - are most in need of!

pbreit 8y ago

Same. I would ===never=== burden my parents with Linux. Until recently, it would be Macs. But am starting to think ChromeOS might be superior.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

Yep. My parents can usually also find some kind of support system with a Mac, either on Google or if they must, at an Apple Store. I would never in a million years subject my parents to Linux on the desktop unless there is some kind of support system that is not entirely dependent on me.