8 ms·

As some one who doesn’t eat fortified foods this brings up questions. Is the balance of vegetables and meat I’m eating lacking in vitamin B1 or other key vitami

As some one who doesn’t eat fortified foods this brings up questions. Is the balance of vegetables and meat I’m eating lacking in vitamin B1 or other key vitamins? Looking up the top sources of B1 the only one that is a staple of mine is beef (100% grass fed).

athenot 8y ago
> This essential micronutrient is produced mainly by plants, including phytoplankton, bacteria, and fungi; people and animals must acquire it through their food. Key here is beneficial bacteria and fungi, which a lot of our foods are increasingly poor in.
- samstave 8y ago
  Would the washing of all our "anti-bacterial" cleaning products into the oceans and water ways be killing off the invisible foundation of the food chain: Bacteria and Fungi. Molds (Fungi) and Bacteria are something Humans have been at war against with their cleaning and pesticides for decades... Phytoplankton eat bacteria, correct?
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    very interesting idea I also wonder to what extent thiamine is recycled in nature, apart from thiaminases, if an predator high up the food chain dies and floats/sinks in the sea, will all the accumulated thiamin be recycled? in what pathways is thiamine consumed in say a human? what would increase or decrease the metabolic consumption (not eating) of thiamine?
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      Wikipedia's Thiamine / antagonists section: >Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[34] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[13] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish[12]). Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities. Is this perhaps due to sulfate pollution (bunker oil?) and acidification of the oceans?
      - Gravityloss 8y ago
        The heavy fuel oil sulfur pollution situation has improved in Europe massively since 2015 when the emissions controls started. By now we should see an effect.
  - Laforet 8y ago
    When Indians who follow a strict vegan diet started migrating to the western world, a lot of them would begin to suffer from pernicious amaemia, a disease caused by deficiency of dietary vitamin B12. Similar diseases are present in India but appeared to be less common. Most published research are rather diplomatic about this phenomenon[0]. However, reading between the lines, the reason appears to be the lack of fecal and insect contamination in food supply, which accidentally eliminated a lot of exogenous micronutrients not present in plants. [0]:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11470726 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11470726
    - caraffle 8y ago
      B12 deficiency doesn't cause pernicious anemia, pernicious anemia is a cause of B12 deficiency, its a GI absorptive disorder (lack if intrinsic factor).
      - Laforet 8y ago
        I use the term loosely in reference to all types of anaemia arising from cobalamin deficiency, as the NIH and Mayo clinic do[0][1]. After all, lack of IF is only one of the many causes and the symptoms are similar regardless of aetiology. [0]:https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vitamin-deficiency-anemia/symptoms-causes/syc-20355025 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vitamin-defic... [1]:https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pernicious-anemia https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pernicious-anemia
  - ajnin 8y ago
    > Phytoplankton eat bacteria, correct? No, phytoplankton are basically microscopic plants, they don't eat anything per se, they are autotrophs which use inorganic substances in the environment and get their energy from sunlight.
    - cordonrouge 8y ago
      phytoplankton are not all exclusively autotrophic. there is a spectrum of mixotrophism. The very short reproductive cycle of non metazoans allows a rapid selective process to occur, the problem with antibacterials and antibiotics in sewer and gray water effluent is not death of organisms but selection for resistance to these compounds. This is why antibiotic use is extremely guarded, there is too much being thrown around like its candy and we have a dire situation on our hands, the time of total antibiotic resistance is very close.
- qwerty456127 8y ago
  > Key here is beneficial bacteria and fungi, which a lot of our foods are increasingly poor in. Aren't the beneficial bacteria and fungi that are meant to inhabit our own guts supposed to be enough?
  - firethief 8y ago
    Historically, maybe. But they do their work in the colon where it's too late for most nutrients to be absorbed without a "reconsumption" step humans generally no longer practice.
lsc 8y ago
Do you eat yeast? It's good for that sort of thing; I mean, you can get it drinking unfiltered beer, too, but personally I kinda like how nutritional yeast tastes, and I'll use it as a condiment.
- illegalsmile 8y ago
  Nutritional yeast on popcorn is quite tasty, add some aminos and you have a great alternative to salt and butter.
- amelius 8y ago
  It's also in Marmite.
OpenBSD-empire 8y ago
>(100% grass fed) That's a scam. All beef is grass fed for most of its life. The divergence occurs near the end where grains are given for marbling and increasing weight. Cost of grains > cost of alfalfa, yet you pay out the nose for "grass fed" at Whole Foods (or similar)! HAHAHAHAHAHA! xD
newnewpdro 8y ago
Eat more mushrooms. I do a mushroom-heavy soup about once a week, usually lentils with an entire package of crimini mushrooms sliced up. Keeping a variety of unsalted tree nuts and seeds nearby to conveniently snack on is good as well. Edit: For B12 in particular, it appears Shiitake and Lion's Mane mushrooms are best. They're not competitive with animal B12 sources, but every bit helps and mushrooms don't add much in the way of calories to a diet. Personally I consume canned wild, unsalted sardines in water fairly regularly for Omega-3s and B12 specifically. They're small and have a short lifespan, which is desirable for a variety of reasons with seafood. i.e. Low on the food chain, and less time spent in a potentially toxic environment accumulating nasties like mercury. Sardines are considered a sustainable superfood by many. It's way better nutritionally than tuna, you eat the whole fish, even the bones.
- point78 8y ago
  Interesting going to add this to my diet
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    If you're referring to the Sardines, if you can handle the taste of room-temperature fish broth, drink the juice from the can, don't drain it. That's where most the omega-3 fatty acids end up from the cooking process. Some of the better brands like what's found at Whole Foods here in CA will even include a notice on the package about not draining the liquid. The Henry & Lisa's stuff [1] in water is quite good, but can be relatively pricy. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Henry-Lisas-Natural-Seafood-Sardines/dp/B00INUGDQO https://www.amazon.com/Henry-Lisas-Natural-Seafood-Sardines/...
- bbrian 8y ago
  > They're not competitive with animal B12 sources, Interestingly, the B12 people get from animals is probably from supplements they were given. https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/7ujsaf/the_b12_in_meat_is_from_supplements_given_to_the/dtlj7vz/?context=8&depth=9 https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/7ujsaf/the_b12_in_me...
jz_ 8y ago
You can log what you eat here on an average day and find out: https://cronometer.com/ https://cronometer.com/
qwerty456127 8y ago
A very interesting question. E.g. I feel like would love to eat 100% natural yet given what I know so far (which, on this subject, is hardly scientifical so there is hope it is false but I hesitate to rely on this hope so I take supplements) it is impossible to get all the micronutrients your body needs for highest-possible health and performance in the long term nowadays (unless, exaggerating just slightly, you eat some pounds of every known exotic fruit every day).
gnulinux 8y ago
Is there a reason you don't eat fortified foods?

athenot 8y ago

> This essential micronutrient is produced mainly by plants, including phytoplankton, bacteria, and fungi; people and animals must acquire it through their food. Key here is beneficial bacteria and fungi, which a lot of our foods are increasingly poor in.

samstave 8y ago
Would the washing of all our "anti-bacterial" cleaning products into the oceans and water ways be killing off the invisible foundation of the food chain: Bacteria and Fungi. Molds (Fungi) and Bacteria are something Humans have been at war against with their cleaning and pesticides for decades... Phytoplankton eat bacteria, correct?
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  very interesting idea I also wonder to what extent thiamine is recycled in nature, apart from thiaminases, if an predator high up the food chain dies and floats/sinks in the sea, will all the accumulated thiamin be recycled? in what pathways is thiamine consumed in say a human? what would increase or decrease the metabolic consumption (not eating) of thiamine?
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    Wikipedia's Thiamine / antagonists section: >Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[34] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[13] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish[12]). Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities. Is this perhaps due to sulfate pollution (bunker oil?) and acidification of the oceans?
    - Gravityloss 8y ago
      The heavy fuel oil sulfur pollution situation has improved in Europe massively since 2015 when the emissions controls started. By now we should see an effect.
- Laforet 8y ago
  When Indians who follow a strict vegan diet started migrating to the western world, a lot of them would begin to suffer from pernicious amaemia, a disease caused by deficiency of dietary vitamin B12. Similar diseases are present in India but appeared to be less common. Most published research are rather diplomatic about this phenomenon[0]. However, reading between the lines, the reason appears to be the lack of fecal and insect contamination in food supply, which accidentally eliminated a lot of exogenous micronutrients not present in plants. [0]:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11470726 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11470726
  - caraffle 8y ago
    B12 deficiency doesn't cause pernicious anemia, pernicious anemia is a cause of B12 deficiency, its a GI absorptive disorder (lack if intrinsic factor).
    - Laforet 8y ago
      I use the term loosely in reference to all types of anaemia arising from cobalamin deficiency, as the NIH and Mayo clinic do[0][1]. After all, lack of IF is only one of the many causes and the symptoms are similar regardless of aetiology. [0]:https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vitamin-deficiency-anemia/symptoms-causes/syc-20355025 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vitamin-defic... [1]:https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pernicious-anemia https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pernicious-anemia
- ajnin 8y ago
  > Phytoplankton eat bacteria, correct? No, phytoplankton are basically microscopic plants, they don't eat anything per se, they are autotrophs which use inorganic substances in the environment and get their energy from sunlight.
  - cordonrouge 8y ago
    phytoplankton are not all exclusively autotrophic. there is a spectrum of mixotrophism. The very short reproductive cycle of non metazoans allows a rapid selective process to occur, the problem with antibacterials and antibiotics in sewer and gray water effluent is not death of organisms but selection for resistance to these compounds. This is why antibiotic use is extremely guarded, there is too much being thrown around like its candy and we have a dire situation on our hands, the time of total antibiotic resistance is very close.
qwerty456127 8y ago
> Key here is beneficial bacteria and fungi, which a lot of our foods are increasingly poor in. Aren't the beneficial bacteria and fungi that are meant to inhabit our own guts supposed to be enough?
- firethief 8y ago
  Historically, maybe. But they do their work in the colon where it's too late for most nutrients to be absorbed without a "reconsumption" step humans generally no longer practice.

lsc 8y ago

Do you eat yeast? It's good for that sort of thing; I mean, you can get it drinking unfiltered beer, too, but personally I kinda like how nutritional yeast tastes, and I'll use it as a condiment.

illegalsmile 8y ago
Nutritional yeast on popcorn is quite tasty, add some aminos and you have a great alternative to salt and butter.
amelius 8y ago
It's also in Marmite.

OpenBSD-empire 8y ago

>(100% grass fed) That's a scam. All beef is grass fed for most of its life. The divergence occurs near the end where grains are given for marbling and increasing weight. Cost of grains > cost of alfalfa, yet you pay out the nose for "grass fed" at Whole Foods (or similar)! HAHAHAHAHAHA! xD

newnewpdro 8y ago

Eat more mushrooms. I do a mushroom-heavy soup about once a week, usually lentils with an entire package of crimini mushrooms sliced up. Keeping a variety of unsalted tree nuts and seeds nearby to conveniently snack on is good as well. Edit: For B12 in particular, it appears Shiitake and Lion's Mane mushrooms are best. They're not competitive with animal B12 sources, but every bit helps and mushrooms don't add much in the way of calories to a diet. Personally I consume canned wild, unsalted sardines in water fairly regularly for Omega-3s and B12 specifically. They're small and have a short lifespan, which is desirable for a variety of reasons with seafood. i.e. Low on the food chain, and less time spent in a potentially toxic environment accumulating nasties like mercury. Sardines are considered a sustainable superfood by many. It's way better nutritionally than tuna, you eat the whole fish, even the bones.

point78 8y ago
Interesting going to add this to my diet
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  If you're referring to the Sardines, if you can handle the taste of room-temperature fish broth, drink the juice from the can, don't drain it. That's where most the omega-3 fatty acids end up from the cooking process. Some of the better brands like what's found at Whole Foods here in CA will even include a notice on the package about not draining the liquid. The Henry & Lisa's stuff [1] in water is quite good, but can be relatively pricy. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Henry-Lisas-Natural-Seafood-Sardines/dp/B00INUGDQO https://www.amazon.com/Henry-Lisas-Natural-Seafood-Sardines/...
bbrian 8y ago
> They're not competitive with animal B12 sources, Interestingly, the B12 people get from animals is probably from supplements they were given. https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/7ujsaf/the_b12_in_meat_is_from_supplements_given_to_the/dtlj7vz/?context=8&depth=9 https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/7ujsaf/the_b12_in_me...

jz_ 8y ago

You can log what you eat here on an average day and find out: https://cronometer.com/ https://cronometer.com/

qwerty456127 8y ago

A very interesting question. E.g. I feel like would love to eat 100% natural yet given what I know so far (which, on this subject, is hardly scientifical so there is hope it is false but I hesitate to rely on this hope so I take supplements) it is impossible to get all the micronutrients your body needs for highest-possible health and performance in the long term nowadays (unless, exaggerating just slightly, you eat some pounds of every known exotic fruit every day).

gnulinux 8y ago

Is there a reason you don't eat fortified foods?