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The bandwidth isn't just for downloading maps to cars. It's also to enable autonomous vehicles to constantly stream data and video feeds back to humans who can
by Dwolb 8y ago
The bandwidth isn't just for downloading maps to cars.
It's also to enable autonomous vehicles to constantly stream data and video feeds back to humans who can take over in real time if the car doesn't know what to do.
- nradov 8y agoThat's completely unrealistic and unsafe. Even with widespread 5G deployment the cellular network will still lack the reliability necessary to make real-time remote driving feasible. When happens when the network drops packets during a critical maneuver? Furthermore you can't expect a remote operator to suddenly take over with no context of preceding events and immediately control the vehicle in a safe manner. It takes a little time for anyone to understand what's actually going on.
- tinus_hn 8y agoIt could be good enough if it’s a backup system only. Then again, probably the only reason the government would be enthusiastic is because these amounts of bandwidth would enable continuously streaming GPS tracked dashcam surveillance from every citizens car.
- nradov 8y agoIt's not nearly good enough for a backup system. The whole point of having a backup system is for safety and reliability. You can't build a viable backup system atop an unreliable network.
- griffinkelly 8y agoThis plays into the density of towers. 5G has a very limited range unlike 4G. It's going to take years (if not decades) to get to a place where 5G can cover the entirety of the US.
- nradov 8y agoEven if we had 100% 5G coverage it still wouldn't be adequate for a safety critical system. What happens when the tower fails on a hot day because the cooling system broke, or a construction crew cuts the backhaul fiber, or the carrier has an infrastructure failure because someone spoofed their BGP routes? If level 4+ autonomous vehicles are ever going to work then at a minimum they need to be able to operate safely with zero network connectivity.
- vibrato 8y agoImo they need to BE the network
- nradov 8y agoDynamic mesh networks can be a nice supplement but no one has ever demonstrated large-scale reliable operation with mobile devices. And you can't always count on having another vehicle in radio range. So turning vehicles into the network won't make remote control viable.
- Misdicorl 8y agoI think the idea would be to have the vehicle detect that its out of its operating spec, and park until either a) situation returns to within operating spec b) remote control comes through The remote control aspect would be severely limited and intended only to get the vehicle back to a situation within its operating spec. This trades the very difficult problems 'need to immediately control the vehicle in a safe manner' and 'what happens if a remote control is lost' into the difficult problems 'how do I detect I'm out of operating spec' and 'how do I park safely when I'm out of spec, especially if I've just lost remote control'
- nradov 8y agoPark where? I frequently drive on rural roads where there are blind curves and no real shoulder (and not much cellular coverage either). A human driver can usually steer a disabled car mostly off the road by going down into a ditch or up an embankment. But it's still not a safe place to be. And autonomous vehicle software is nowhere near being able to handle those maneuvers.
- Dwolb 8y agoThis already is happening with several autonomous vehicle companies. It helps with municipal adoption.
- emptyfile 8y agoIs this comment serious? How could that ever work??
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoThis is actually Waymo's strategy that Waymo is allegedly actually using in Arizona, so presumably it is serious. (Though I agree it's a terrible idea.)
- izzydata 8y agoI want to be able to drive a car from the safety of my home using a VR headset. They can turn actual trucking into a trucking "simulator".
- apexalpha 8y agoOh I thought the main argument why 5G helps autonomous cars was the lower latency.
- untog 8y agoThat is a horrendous idea. 5G isn't going to be some magical technology that's always on all the time. It will have outages and black spots just like any other.
- JohnFen 8y ago> It's also to enable autonomous vehicles to constantly stream data and video feeds back to humans who can take over in real time if the car doesn't know what to do If this is required for autonomous vehicles, then I'll pass.
- marcosdumay 8y agoThat's the reason very few companies are talking about selling those, and the entire discussion is about cars as a service. Given enough time, they will probably stop requiring external help, but it's very unlikely that the first autonomous cars to run without it.