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The War to Sell Mattresses Is an Internet Nightmare (2017)
- umvi 8y agoI remember not too long ago a legal fight between Purple and an "honest guy with concerns about the chemicals used in Purple mattresses" and then it turned out the "honest guy" was a GhostBed mattress affiliate or something. I had no idea it was so cutthroat across the board. Edit: a summary of the spat I mentioned: https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/69zqcx/purple_mattress_suing_reviewer_over_safety/ https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/69zqcx/...
- dazc 8y agoI had a client once who made custom wedding stationery, it was an eye-opener for me what a nasty, backstabbing business that could be. With mattresses, I'm not so surprised really.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoTo be entirely fair - iirc the purple mattresses did have a powder inside them, and they were microbeads. If Ford tells me my GM leaks gas, and they’re right, that’s fine with me.
- williamdclt 8y agoI wouldn't appreciate them pretending to be "just an honest guy with concerns" though
- devonkim 8y agoI showed this article to our director of sales a while ago and he was amazed at how crazy the industry is. Not sure what I can really do amidst all this to avoid validating the aggressive tactics by these folks besides avoiding buying a mattress that is ever advertised or reviewed in any way but that’s hard to do now too.
- Retric 8y agoI just go with ikea who happens to sell mattresses without it being their main revenue source. If you want really cheap, DIY foam pads are cheap, but so are water beds.
- devonkim 8y agoI do value good mattresses and IKEA mattresses don’t work for me. My family historically bought mattresses from Costco but not all warehouses carry them.
- deaps 8y agoWe have an ikea spring mattress in our spare room - and it's really comfortable. It came rolled up just like a foam mattress does.
- wolfram74 8y agoI sleep in a hammock. If you're not expecting company it's really a nice alternative to mattresses.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoThat's so bizarre. A couple of weeks ago my wife and I bought a mattress (the one we currently had was starting to draw blood from a broken spring) and didn't think about going online. We went into a store, tried a couple, did a quick google search price match, and decided we'd take it. I never even considered online. I was trying to do research after the fact (cause why would you do it BEFORE you bought something) and found that I couldn't find any sites that screamed "objective" to me - it all seemed like a bunch of sites that were advertising far more than reviewing.
- DanBC 8y ago> We went into a store, tried a couple, did a quick google search price match, Even this is tricky, because they'll sell the same matress as "super deluxe" in one store and "premium super" in another store.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoTrue. I gave up pretty quickly. The whole thing seemed like a fog of disinformation.
- ceejayoz 8y agoYup. The mattress producers make the same products with different model names and SKUs, as well.
- Maximus9000 8y agoIs there a website somewhere that helps you navigate the fact that the same mattress will have different names at different stores?
- izzydata 8y agoThat seems unlikely because every mattress store is its own thing with its own made up names. I imagine there are some tags somewhere on these mattress with some kind of product model that you could look up to see where it actually came from. It would be a lot of work to organize this mess of information.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoMy small city has 20 or so mattress stores I can think of. They’re always empty, having “seasonal sales”, have people working them that follow you around the store, no direct prices but “I’ll go look that up” and “box spring included this week!”... I hated mattress shopping. The best thing to happen to mattresses, was that someone figured out you can roll them up and ship them direct. The fallout from that discovery of Purple vs Casper vs Avacado (my pick, love it) vs whatever... don’t care so long as I never need to go into a mattress store again.
- briandear 8y agoI agree. I happen to love Casper, but regardless of who you pick, the mattress in a box thing is great because mattress stores are all slimy to me.
- tyu1000 8y agoI went with Leesa, same reasons for going online, also has worked well for me.
- throwaway98121 8y agoI always wondered how these places stay open. I judge them as fronts for cleaning up dirty money.
- copperx 8y agoI have two neighbors who are mattress salesmen and their houses are decorated opulently, both in and out, and drive cars that working professionals in the neighborhood could never afford. It's suspicious, to be sure. I never thought that being a matress salesman was so profitable. One has offered me discounts if I buy from him, but I haven't taken him up on the offer.
- gadders 8y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15488618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15488618
- CharlesDodgson 8y agoI really liked this article, I bought one in Warren Evans, it's the only product I can remember buying that has came with a 10 year guarantee.
- fawnzworth 8y agoCostco mattresses ftw
- djstein 8y agoI think Costco even sells Casper now https://www.costco.com/Casper-Memory-Foam-Queen-Mattress.product.100428876.html https://www.costco.com/Casper-Memory-Foam-Queen-Mattress.pro...
- bauc 8y agoRelevant Adam ruins.. (The Mattress Industry is One Big Rip-Off) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvlA9UxGvSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvlA9UxGvSg
- coverband 8y agoThanks for the link - that was exceptionally fun to watch!
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- interfixus 8y agoTurning 60, I have yet to learn appreciation for this product niche. A decent foam-rubber thingy costs me next to nothing, can be rolled up and put in the car boot, and will last me several years, call it four or five. Also: https://xkcd.com/2096/ https://xkcd.com/2096/
- jstarfish 8y agoFutons are underrated as well. Foldable and disposable. Saves a ton of space in the room. Mattresses are oversized sanitary napkins but people keep them around far longer than they should because they pay so much for them.
- stronglikedan 8y agoI've slept on quite a few futons, especially in college, and I've never slept on one that I would consider comfortable, only merely better than the floor.
- ndiscussion 8y agoYou're lucky, I have a bear of a time sleeping and often feel physically uncomfortable sleeping on the floor. I bought a cotton-filled Japanese futon mattress and slept on it for 6 months. In the end, I was still waking up with hurt joints, almost like bruising, and I bought a $1,000 mattress instead. So I think it's due to individual nerve differences or something...
- rchaud 8y agoI'm reading the comments and feeling incredibly fortunate. I'm 33 and I've slept on a $100 Ikea queen mattress since my college days (the very basic model) and haven't had any sleep or back-related issues. I appreciate the plusher mattresses hotels have, but at no point have I thought to spend anything close to what these mattress places usually charge.
- tyu1000 8y agoThis is a many-times repost but still a good read. I've gotten to the point where I only trust Wirecutter/Consumer Reports reviews of anything.
- mhb 8y agoYes, but it's a little hard to know what to do when you go to look at their top-rated items and there are tons of negative reviews. That has been my experience recently looking at the highly rated Bluetooth receivers on Wirecutter and ranges on Consumer Reports. There aren't that many total reviews on Consumer Reports though, so maybe the complainers there are overly represented.
- jammygit 8y agoApparently wirecutter will demote a product if the company won't offer affiliated sales or something. There was a big story about a standing desk company thst had to deal with that iirc
- counternotions 8y agoI bought an online bed-in-a-box after this HN post in 2013 and still very happy with it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6900625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6900625
- JohnFen 8y agoThe mattress industry (in the US, anyway) is disgustingly scammy. I think it's at least on par with used car dealerships. I avoid it by buying refurbished mattresses from local charitable organizations. I've never bought a mattress online, but I see little reason to think those guys are any better.
- rchaud 8y agoI am happy to do this regarding furniture, but mattresses is a tough sell for me. Aren't you worried about bedbugs?
- JohnFen 8y agoNo, I buy them refurbished. They strip the mattresses and boxsprings down to the wood and wire, disinfect them, then replace the fabric/padding/etc with new materials. It's essentially no different than newly built. I've been buying these for decades and have never had an issue with bedbugs or any other nastiness. They are less expensive, but not dramatically so. But I get a quality bed, don't have to deal with mattress shops, and get a little bit of feel-good from helping to employ people who otherwise have difficulty finding work. And they deliver.
- folli 8y agoI find it interesting that they are able to sell them cheaper than new mattresses, which I assume are built in a high-throughput factory.
- russh 8y agoThat would be one of the clues that the new mattresses are overpriced to begin with.
- JohnFen 8y agoAs russh says, part of this is that new mattresses are overpriced. When I first investigated these things, I had asked them how, since they're only keeping the wood and wire, they can sell them at a discount. What they told me was that first, the beds they're refurbushing were originally donated to them, so cost them nothing. Also, since they employ people who are otherwise unemployable, they pay minimum wage, which keeps labor costs down. And thirdly, the government considers them a nonprofit work creation program and provides a certain amount of subsidy for the wages.
- floren 8y agoHere's my favorite quote: > Kenny Kline and Dan Scalco swore that Casper wouldn’t touch the site. Casper’s Philip Krim told me the same: “We exert no influence and have no influence over the site, other than that we lent them money.” I smiled at that part, and then read on to the next paragraph: > The new owners of Sleepopolis did disclose on the site: “Until the loan is satisfied, Casper has the contractual right to repossess the assets and forgive the remaining value of the loan…yes, that was written by our lawyers ;).” Repossess the assets: in other words, take over Sleepopolis, if it came to that. But Krim said this was just “lawyer language protecting our loan, so we get paid back.” Wowzers! There's all this stuff advertised in podcasts (mattresses, clothes, underwear, meal prep, snacks) which seems to be aimed at young professionals who hate the idea of having to go into a physical store and talk to a physical person. When the podcast man reads a script saying "Casper mattresses are WAY cheaper than what you'd get in a store!", I guess you're not supposed to comparison-shop and see that the Casper is $950 for a queen... which is pretty much exactly what we paid for a perfectly nice Serta memory foam mattress at a store 1 mile from our house, which included delivery and installation.
- blain_the_train 8y ago5 years ago, when i did comparision shop (remote and on-site) many remote places offered drastically less. But, it's impossible to do a 1 to 1 because, by design, the sellers don't want you to be able to identify you mattress. A online store might sell it as "Cloud" while the same mattress in store will go by "Canper Comfert". They wont have the same id either, as Canper Comftert will have some minor detail changed just to warrent a new id. Fix that problem, and mattress shoping will become a much saner process for the buyer.
- lsc 8y agoI'm not sure anyone is fooled by the "It's cheaper" - but there are a lot of us who will pay a reasonable premium to not have to go to the store and deal with salespeople in person, and personally... I think that's a reasonable luxury to buy? I mean, even if salespeople weren't... salespeople, it's still often a good several hours of time during business hours to drive to the store that has the thing you want, and I personally have a really hard time telling you how much I will like a mattress without sleeping on it for a week, anyhow, so I don't feel like I'm getting any value out of shopping in person.
- kevindong 8y ago> Casper’s sales topped $200 million last year, though it declines to say whether it is profitable. Fortune has estimated Casper’s annual marketing budget to be $80 million. If true, that's absolutely insane---spending ~40% of your revenue on marketing.
- mrnobody_67 8y agoNot really.... mattress stores probably spent similar percentage on real estate + sales people + ads.
- taco_emoji 8y agoWell as they quote in the article: You have to be a strong marketer to be in the mattress industry, because they’re really selling identical, rectangular slabs.
- et2o 8y agoThe one thing let's not neglect is that these actually are really nice mattresses. I just spent a week at a 5-star Hawaiian resort where they (I saw and asked them) change out the mattresses monthly ... My mattress at home that I ordered online was far nicer.
- fredley 8y agoYup, I have one (I won't say which brand - they're all pretty much the same idea) and the reduction in movement transmition was amazing. My partner gets up in the night usually, and the reduction in disturbance from that was huge.
- gnulinux 8y agoMeeeh. I paid $600 for Tufts&Needle. I don't have any complaints but it just feels like... a bed. I literally cannot tell any difference between $30 Ikea mattress and $600 Tufts&Needle mattress, and if I spend a whole lazy weekend on my bed then maybe I can say yeah Tufts&Needle is more comfortable than $30 mattress. While these expensive mattresses aren't bad -- so I don't think they're true scams -- they're extremely low value, so the marginal benefit you get from them is imho extravagant luxury.
- russellbeattie 8y agoMy favorite conspiracy theory (which I totally believe) is that mattress stores are mostly for money laundering. No market can possibly support as many stores as there are, and every time I go by one, they're empty. It's probably because I don't understand the economics of the industry, but wow are there a lot of mattress stores. I know we all need to sleep, but spending $2,000 once every 10 years can't be a reliable source of income. Plus people will sleep on anything rather than lay out that sort of cash. I personally, at 47, have never bought a new bed except a Ikea, from which I've bought several, all for much less than $2k.
- Scoundreller 8y agoBed or mattress? I’ve been happy with IKEA mattresses, but I’ve found the random importers’ softwood beds advertised in the classified ads to be better than Ikea’s particle board. And a lot easier to assemble.
- pkaye 8y agoI had good experience with custom foam mattresses made by a local store. They let you customize it in many ways. And the price is less than half of usual chain stores.
- baroffoos 8y agoI got my wood frame thing and mattress from ikea. The mattress is perfectly fine but the wood gets dented/chipped very easily.
- yesiamyourdad 8y agoThat's possible though I know some people who own a mattress store and I'd be astounded if they were into money laundering. Tangentially, someone once told me that vending machine companies are havens for money laundering. It's a plausible source for tons of cash, which makes it ideal for getting illegally obtained cash into the legal banking system. No idea how true it is, but that's how it was explained to me.
- brokenmachine 8y ago