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The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction
- treephen 8y agoI bet none of the books will tackle topics like censorship, big brother, and concentration camps for minorities
- SolaceQuantum 8y agoLiu Cixin already covers this in his well-known trilogy. Also, Folding Beijing is an award winning short story encompassing all three things plus class strife, written by a Chinese author.
- treephen 8y agoTrilogy which was written before Xi became a dictator. None of the new books will.
- faitswulff 8y agoI don't know if you read the article, but the investment in science fiction is state sponsored: > A big clue comes from the author Neil Gaiman’s collection of non-fiction essays, The View from the Cheap Seats, where he relates an anecdote from the time he attended the 2007 China SF/Fantasy Conference in Chengdu: > “A few years ago, in 2007, I went to China for the first-ever, I believe, state-sponsored science fiction convention, and at some point I remember talking to a party official who was there and I said, ‘Up until now I have read in Locus that your lot disapprove of science fiction and you disapprove of science fiction conventions and these things have not been deliberately encouraged. What’s changed? Why did you permit this thing? Why are we here?’ > ‘And he said, ‘Oh you know for years, we’ve been making wonderful things. We make your iPods. We make phones. We make them better than anybody else, but we don’t come up with any of these ideas. So we went on a tour of America talking to people at Microsoft, at Google, at Apple, and we asked them a lot of questions about themselves, just the people working there. And we discovered they all read science fiction… so we think maybe it’s a good thing.” > The more things change, the more they remain the same. Lu Xun in 1903 had written that ‘science fiction could play a crucial role in the advancement of the Chinese nation’ and 104 years later, the purpose of the 2007 Chengdu SF/F Conference seems to have been no different for it was described as ‘an ambitious Chinese effort designed to inspire public creativity toward future scientific and technological development as well as promote national insight for scientific exploration’. A laudable step towards sparking the imagination and fostering innovation, but the state support of science fiction is also about advancing China’s soft power. As the writer Chen Quifan said in a speech (co-written by the organisers) at the eighth Chinese Nebula Awards in November 2017, saying that the purpose of Chinese science fiction was to, “grasp what General Secretary Xi has put forward, and advance the establishment of the power of the international spread of the culture of socialism with Chinese characteristics, in order to tell the China story.”
- treephen 8y agoThat's back in 2006. Now everything has changed. Now China thrives on closing down churches, jailing pastors, censoring 'sensitive' materials in Hong Kong, indoctrinate muslims to eat pork and drink beer, etc etc etc. Doubt any book of significance will arise in this environment
- forkLding 8y agoCCP thrives on atheism, most Chinese science fiction novels actually are also non or anti-religion which wins them points in the censor department. At least I've read several post-2015 Chinese sci-fi and whenever religion comes up, the religious figures are always greedy, corrupt and using their religious title for power, "polygamous-cultish" or fanatically stupid. Although the ones I've read have been remixing Cthulhu with Cyberpunk so I might be digressing. Also note that most Chinese modern sci-fi now begin life as internet and web forum novels because the web is the most important and fast-spreading medium for Chinese fiction readers now. As well, near-future sci-fi and most importantly those kind of TV shows are pretty much banned in China.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y agoSo don’t hold my breath for the Chinese Version of ‘Black Mirror’ hm?
- pnw_hazor 8y agoChina is Black Mirror
- yorwba 8y agoFolding Beijing was linked in TFA, but in case someone overlooked it or went straight to the comments, here's the English translation: http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/ http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/
- barry-cotter 8y agoI hate that story so much. It’s practically the platonic ideal of engineer written fiction without the tiniest patina of knowledge of social science. A story about monstrous people and three worlds occupying one space over the course of a day in fantasy, good. As something vaguely purporting to be a plausible depiction of a possible reality it is absolute garbage. It makes no sense on a political, sociological or economic level. The machinery described is insanely complex and would be very, very expensive and all to get a tiny bit more use out of space when you could do as well by building skyscrapers, or going underground, or expanding the city. Beijing is big but there’s plenty of flat land to expand around it. If you can turn off all knowledge of how things work and just look at the human story of love, loss and sacrifice the translation and writing is excellent.
- B1FF_PSUVM 8y agoRabbit hole: one of the acknowledged magazine supporters is the creator of a verbless language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kēlen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kēlen (4 or 5 clicks and a search/name check, must get a grip ...)
- aerophilic 8y agoOne thing I really appreciated about the three body problem (Liu Cixin), was the “completely different perspective” brought to bear. I feel to often with (American) science fiction, you have well known and “expected” themes. What will be interesting is how much further they can go. I personally prefer a “wealth” of perspectives, and you can only get that if people are coming from different cultures.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y agoIt was amazing, and it was such a startling, yet “obvious-in-hindsight” way of packaging the potential isolation imposed by the sheer scale of the universe. The sense of dread, loss, and ultimately hope was almost overwhelming. I feel lucky to be alive at a time when I can hear on a website about a book written in China, find a digital copy of the whole trilogy professionally translated, and then discuss the experience on another site full of like-minded people.
- andygates 8y agoThis is one of the reasons I devoured the trilogy and started looking for more: a whole different set of expectations and norms that are subtly different. I think scifi audiences might be primed for that?
- MichaelMoser123 8y agoSoviet censorship used to be less heavy on science fiction then on other subjects. is that true for China as well?
- int_19h 8y agoStill plenty heavy though. Infamously, one of Strugatsky's books was censored because it described an alien totalitarian society ruled by "The Unknown Fathers"; the censors demanded that the label be changed, among other things. Then there was Efremov, who had trouble publishing some of his stuff at all, despite it being heavily ideologically communist.
- MichaelMoser123 8y agoStill they got it out in 1969, when everything was in deep freeze as the tanks rolled into Prague in 1967. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_Power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_Power
- BurningFrog 8y agoWe have plenty of western books on that. Hopefully Chinese SF can deal with some western neglected or taboo topics!
- yumraj 8y agoSuch as? Edit: especially curious about which topics folks think might be considered taboos in Western science fiction.
- firstbabylonian 8y agoThe ones we may not realise are worth talking about. Just because this new wave of non-Western science fiction has issues, this doesn't mean it cannot contribute some novel richness to a genre that has so far been dominated by white Westerners. Innovation doesn't lie in perfect solutions, and that's especially true for art.
- CptFribble 8y agoMaybe the primacy of individualism/freedoms as the only path to collective prosperity? Like, what if the Chinese model really is the best way to run a country (not an endorsement, btw)? Not "taboo," persay, but it's something thing that's not really seriously considered by most westerners (not the ones I know, at least).
- forkLding 8y agoThen you might like Han Song https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Song_(writer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Song_(writer)
- mac01021 8y agoAny of his works in particular? (Sadly, it looks from the wikipedia article like I'm not likely to find an english translation for most of his work)
- andrenth 8y ago
- georgeecollins 8y agoThe Three Body Problem (which I recommend highly) begins with a terrifying scene during the cultural revolution. I think most Chinese people are generally proud of modern China. They know it has problems, but they see problems in the west too.
- koboll 8y agoI was blown away by the beginning of that book. Was not expecting something coming out of contemporary China to be so pointedly, brutally critical of the revolution.
- currymj 8y agothe official party line is that the Cultural Revolution caused "the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People's Republic". many Communist party leaders suffered horribly at the hands of the Red Guards. criticizing Mao is pretty dangerous but as far as I can tell it's pretty safe to criticize the Cultural Revolution.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- the_duke 8y agoAs far as I know the Chinese book market is heavily censored. I'd be curious about how this affects Chinese authors, and if and how they have to limit the topics and the creativity of their writing due to this.
- yorwba 8y agoFamous authors can write for the international translation market, essentially. A few months ago there was a submission about Yan Lianke's struggles: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18206445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18206445 It's still possible to read banned books on the mainland if you know the right sites, but most consumers of banned literature are probably just looking for porn, so you might need to do some digging to find something more high-brow. I'm not sure what lesser-known authors do, but I guess they try to keep their fiction as fictional as possible.
- taurath 8y agoIs porn banned? Or only some types?
- withhighprod 8y agoIt’s banned but every student beyond 7th grade has a secret link and it was worth bragging
- rqs 8y agoBy law, yes. And redistribution of porn materials is a crime that can send committers to prison, depends generally on how much money they've earned from it or/and how many redistribution has been made etc. But personal consumption is not illegal. To put it simple, if you want to be a 100% law obeying person in China, then you can watch porn, but you cannot produce it, you cannot copy it and send to others, you cannot recommend it to others. The real life situation is bit different of course.
- johnnyb3 8y agoI read Liu Cixin's trilogy cover to cover about a year ago. Many references to Western thought including the Bible, social topics, and a surprising (for me) amount of diversity injected into the plot line. Grand and sweeping, it's great Sci Fi literature. It's hard to imagine that it is the result of any significant censorship. I found it a fascinating glimpse into the modern Chinese way of thinking.
- ngcc_hk 8y agoNo Harry Potter local as no magic, no god, no fiary after 1948. Too violent no ... It is not just the rule. It is the arbitrary rule suddenly comes up. Any funny bear like honey
- etrautmann 8y agoI can’t parse this
- treephen 8y agoit looks like he's posting from hong kong, and he is trying to avoid the Chinese government censors or get thrown in jail.
- flukus 8y agoThe last line in particular seems like a reference to their current leaders dislike of cartoon bears: https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/18/15993136/winnie-the-pooh-china-ban-censorship-xi-jinping-lol https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/18/15993136/winnie-the-pooh-...
- qlk1123 8y agoFair enough statement, but it looks more like a direct translation from Chinese sentences to me. > "No Harry Potter local as no magic, ..." We don't publish localized Harry Potter (don't they? I am not sure) because magic fantasy is abandoned. > "... no god, no fiary after 1948." Why 1948? The year is not that meaningful for modern Hong Kong people, but it is a important year for China and Taiwan. At 1948, KMT was de facto defeated by CCP and start to retreat to Taiwan. > "Too violent no ..." A book cannot be published if it is too violent. > "It is not just the rule. It is the arbitrary rule suddenly comes up." I suppose this looks like normal English? Chinese Government intentionally keeps the publish law vague and blur, so that they can "dynamically" decide what to ban and who to capture. > Any funny bear like honey @flukus got this.
- andrenth 8y ago
- Jerry2 8y agoCixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he manages to achieve the impossible. His world-building skills are second to none and he introduced so many novel and interesting technologies into his universe. Liu's a true master of sci-fi (and definitely a genius) and these books are my favorite fiction books of all time. After I finished the last book, I was depressed because I realized that I'm not going to read something this great again for a very long time. They're also the first Chinese sci-fi books I've ever read. Since then, I read the rest of Liu's books (including the Ball Lightning which came out last year). Can't recommend these books highly enough but beware that it might make subsequent sci-fi books less enjoyable since you'll be judging them by a different yardstick. I tried to read so many sci-fi books since (I usually buy various award winning books since it's a decent filter) but I rarely finish them because they never capture my attention (and imagination) like Liu's books.
- yanowitz 8y agoI listened to them. The audio books are truly wonderful and immersive narrative (all 96 hours!). I can’t recommend them enough to hard sci fi fans. Although I did have a few false starts with the first book.
- mercutio2 8y agoWow. I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? Anyway, to each their own, but as a huge sci-fi fan, I generally love the Hugo winners and nominees. The Chinese sci-fi that’s been nominated has all left me cold.
- dominicr 8y agoSame for me. From reading only a few Chinese/Asian books I think the problem is that each culture has its own style of writing fiction and Chinese books tend to have a slower pace and more introspection. You also get that in some English language fiction, but not so much in sci-fi, so the average English culture sci-fi reader is going to going to get frustrated with Chinese language sci.fi.
- est 8y ago> science Literature which first came out in 1979, continued to publish during the campaign against spiritual pollution and continues to this day under the name of Science Fiction World. Here are some interesting trivia about Science Fiction World - Nearly all of Liu Cixin's work was first published on this magazine - The publisher was located in Chengdu, Sichuan, it's an official member of Sichuan Science Society, which is under direct control of Communist Party Sichuan Committee. - One of the chief editor of SFW, A-Lai[1], who is a Tibetan, also a very established award-winning writer. His most famous work is about the conflict in feudal serfdom Tibet in the 20s century. A very interesting novel. - SFW was once considered the largest science fiction magazine published by volume. In 2010 there was an online campaign from its staff requesting step down of Party appointed president & chief editor, LiChang. - LiChang was also responsible for opening another magazine lineup, the famous Magic Fantasy World. Because of the LotR and Harry Potter influence. The magazine was discontinued in 2013. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alai_(author) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alai_(author)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mark_l_watson 8y agoI really enjoyed Liu Cixin‘s Three Body Problem trilogy when I read it last year. Really creative and interesting. I also just finished his prequel to the trilogy Ball Lightening.
- infinii 8y agoWould you recommend reading Ball Lightning before the TBP Trilogy if I've never read any of this...because it's a prequel?
- aedron 8y agoI've read (and thoroughly enjoyed) them all, didn't even know Ball Lightning was a prequel (it was written after the trilogy). Perhaps some repeat characters? I don't believe there are any spoilers either way.
- mark_l_watson 8y agoI only know about it being sort-of a prequel because of the afterward material in the audible audio book. The books can be enjoyed in either reading order.
- thatcherc 8y agoI don't think it's a prequel - he just wrote it before TBP. There is one character in common with The Dark Forest, but only to the extent that this character is regarded as a great physicist in both books and makes some discoveries.
- rdl 8y agoCixin Liu and Ken Liu (admittedly American) are in my top-10 SF authors now.
- chrisweekly 8y agoCixin Liu's "Three Body Problem" is a trip. Recommended.
- jeanvaljean2463 8y agoStrong recommendation for "Usurper of the Sun", have yet to read another book like it.
- tanilama 8y agoChinese book market, or fiction market has now almost fully embraced digital self-publishing. Magazine are now almost dead, books are just physical copies of their online version. Sad but true, the one most important Chinese SF magazine, the SF World, where all the mentioned authors started their career, has been hanging on the edge and gradually becoming irrelevant for some time now. The new generation of readers has put their vote on longer, daily updated, fast paced Wuxia(Martial Arts)/Xianxia(Martial Arts with Fantasy element) series, which focuses entirely on pleasing the readership with favorable characters/troupes. With a strangling market, I wouldn't say the Chinese science fiction's future is a bright one.
- infinii 8y agoDo you value the medium or the content? I can't see why you think 'digital self-publishing' is a bad thing. If anything, digital publishing where you can circumvent the publishers should allow for more content to reach market (not saying it's all good...see geocities webpages as an example of this) but I'm not sure why you think this would be bad for the Chinese SciFi scene.
- tanilama 8y agoThe problem with digital self-publishing in China is a unique one. I don't want to expand too much on this subject because it is pretty complicated, but in short, digital self-publishing is not merely a publishing channel, it has reshaped the fiction genre in return. The Chinese online fiction is now a rat race, every author is measured by the characters they are written PER day, which ranges like 3000 characters to 10k characters. To output that amount of text per day is not trivial task, it is not writing more like manufacturing. And works that doesn't meet such standard gets no chance to even reach the readership at all, per algorithm. So, to answer your question, medium and content in this case are intervened. Medium is not neutral, it shapes the content by itself, and sadly in China's case, it opts to optimize for volumes not quality, and changes the readers' taste and expectation along the way. Tradition publishing has one unique quality to itself that it offers advice and quality control through editorship. Not the case for self-publishing though, the market is flooded with more products with lower qualities, and it makes no easier for real good work to stand out since there is too much noise.
- int_19h 8y agoI have only read "Three-Body Problem", and I found it to be atrocious writing on pretty much all levels. Language-wise, it was more cliched and wooden than many fanfics I've read. Character development is non-existent, and most of the characters are very shallow and only exist to advance the plot. The plot itself, aside from the basic idea of a three-body system with life, was also very boring - the only part of it that I actually looked forward to continue reading was the Cultural Revolution flashbacks. And then there's the whole sci-fi part of it, which was beyond ridiculous - sentient elementary particles etc. I still don't understand how that book gets so many good reviews, and especially don't understand people comparing it with Heinlein. Those reviews were the only reason why I forced myself to read it all the way through, and it still feels like some elaborate hoax, or accidentally ending up in some postmodernist art convention by mistake.
- Scaevolus 8y ago"Dark Forest" is a fascinating idea that would make for an interesting short story, but I agree with you that the characters and plot are extremely lacking.
- int_19h 8y agoThat's from the second book, right? A lot of people appear to be saying that the second one is the best. But then the same people mostly say that the first one is, if not great, then at least okay, and that's where my calibration goes off.
- octernion 8y agothe second book is definitely the best (in my opinion), but yeah, if you were frustrated by the first book i don't think you would love the second (as exciting as the ideas may be). for me personally, i approached it less as a hard sci-fi book and more of a fantasy/sci-fi novel with some big ideas, and loved it for that!
- zimablue 8y agoThere are more axes than character development or adherence to the constraints of current scientific understanding on which to judge a book. To me, originality and "philosophical development", or how the perspective of science influences the future and nature of humanity are very important, and that's why I consider this series an absolute masterpiece. It's great in the same vein as 2001: a space odyssey, or rendezvous with rama, or childhood's end
- jayalpha 8y agoLong overdue. When South Korea and Japan have super interesting Sci-Fi books and movies (e.g. Korean Bladerunner "Natural City"), why not China? I am glad China is coming along. Since I learn Mandarin, feel free to recommend Chinese movies. (I am trying to read 三体 already, don't need more books). I start with the first (non-scifi) movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Breaker_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Breaker_(film) Please recommend more Chinese movies if you can
- kaffeemitsahne 8y agoWong Kar-Wai is a Chinese director I like a lot.
- idoubtit 8y agoWong Kar-Wai grew and made his main films in Hong-Kong, which was not part of China (AKA People's Republic of China). I believe most of his actors spoke Cantonese, not Mandarin. Since these languages are mutually unintelligible, it's of little use to the OP which was learning the latter.
- chillee 8y agoThree Chinese movies I've seen get fairly widespread acclaim are: 1. Hero 2. Flowers of Shanghai 3. The Legend of the Drunken Master
- tanilama 8y agoThree body problem does suffer the problem of weak characterization. Liu's account of his characters are often robotic and functional, in a way that is pretty anti-climatic, since you hardly feel for those characters and their fate. They are disposable vehicles with string attached, who don't control their own fate or make their own decisions but simply carry out appointed missions from the author himself. Granted, his vision for the story is simply brilliant, which covers up a lot of weak points in his literary skills, but weakness is weakness nevertheless. In a way, Three Body Problem series aren't good novels, since it lacks humartian elements in them, but great sketchbooks of some of the craziest, but at the same time, most beautiful SF ideas in decades.
- baxtr 8y agoSo basically your saying: don’t read the novels but instead read the Wikipedia articles if you’re interested in crazy SF ideas?
- ctchocula 8y agoI think he's saying the ideas are good, but characterization sucks. I might compare it to Asimov: one would never read Asimov for the characters or the psychological insight (like one would read Tolstoy), but one reads Asimov for the plot and the ideas. It's not for everyone, but you would need to read the book to see if it's for you. To say just read the Wikipedia articles would be unjust. My advice: read it if you liked Asimov or learning about Chinese culture. For example, another commenter pointed out one theme in this trilogy is "The most powerful human trait is the ability to hide ones true feelings and thoughts from others". This is a markedly Chinese trait that it was noted by a missionary who visited China in the 19th century and wrote a book called "Chinese Characteristics".
- charliebrownau 8y agoSCIFI from 2015 to 2020 without * Wokeness * Diversity Quotas * Blue tint * Dark Filter * Loud music * Low vocals Besides Orville, whats a decent made scifi anymore ? Woke scifi list:- New Dr Who New Star Trek Diversity New Star Wars Movies Latest Ghost Busters Movie Latest Lost in space TV series Season 3 of Lucifer Dark Matter The Gifted
- mac01021 8y agoDo they have any scifi to speak of in TV yet? I wonder how long it will take, given the growing popularity of these novels.
- akvadrako 8y agoThere is the series Guardian (2018), which is interesting. Probably more fantasy and really low budget though: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8551028/?ref_=fn_tv_tt_1 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8551028/?ref_=fn_tv_tt_1
- Pale_King101 8y agoI had not an inkling of an idea that this was a thing; but I am glad that I have stumbled upon this. Thank you for sharing! Will have to explore further.