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Chariot is shutting down
- kgwgk 8y agoSee also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18877645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18877645
- snacktaster 8y agonever even heard of this
- zapzupnz 8y agoI'd not heard of Chariot before this. Was it widely used? It looked like Uber meets carpooling, or perhaps some sort of fancy work shuttle — and work shuttle companies open and close all the time, so I don't see what's newsworthy. They don't state why they're closing down, so I'm a bit puzzled on this one.
- idoh 8y agoI used Chariot a bit a couple years ago. Sad to see it go. For people who haven't heard of it, it worked like this: I live in SF, and worked in Redwood City. Every day, there was some type of large van that would pick me up a couple blocks from where I lived and dropped me off a couple blocks from where I worked. So it was like a middle ground between public transportation and Uber / Lyft.
- aniketpant 8y agoIsn't what you described an example of how buses work. I know very little about the state of public transport in SF but if it was better won't it solve what Chariot tried to do?
- lykr0n 8y agoChariot is a Point A to Point E services. Busesses are a Point A -> B -> C -> D -> E service. One is more efficient if you have a large number of people going to the same place at the same time, the other is more efficient if a lot of people need to go to different places.
- seattle_spring 8y agoor in my case, point A...ZA in 6 miles. Literally 27 stops (and one transfer).
- paxys 8y agoNot quite. Chariot routes also have a sizable number of stops between start and end points. The only difference is that rides have to be booked in advance, so the drivers know what stops they can skip.
- lykr0n 8y agoWhere I work, Chariot is used as a Park n Ride type solution. We have 4 routes where you can hop on and get taken to work. I'm guessing other companies can have different configurations.
- rconti 8y agoSan Francisco and Redwood City are roughly 30 miles apart. In the Bay Area, in particular, buses tend to work on a city or county level, which would mean to make this trip, assuming buses were conveniently located, timed, and without too many stops, it would involve using several transit systems, unfortunately. San Francisco and Redwood City not only have dozens of other cities between them, but they're also in 2 different counties (San Francisco and San Mateo county, to be specific). I don't want to say we don't have cooperation between transit agencies, but they are at least distinct entities for these services. A better solution would be the train. Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) serves many counties and cities, but does not go that far south. Caltrain serves both San Francisco and Redwood City quite well; however, the nearest station is miles from the Marina district, and depending on destination, would require a transfer on the other end as well. Of course, I'm sure Chariot involved multiple stops as well, but presumably most riders took it every day, so it was a route that was tailored to the riders of that van, rather than a generic public transit service that might have inconveniently timed transfers, too many stops, or other issues. EDIT: Actually, it looks like I am incorrect. SamTrans (San Mateo County) actually does go from Redwood City to San Francisco by bus, at least on the 397 and 398 routes, but only midday and it will take almost 2 hours, as it's entirely on surface streets for those ~30 miles (and the terminus on either end is not particularly more likely to be more convenient than the much faster train) http://www.samtrans.com/schedulesandmaps/maps.html http://www.samtrans.com/schedulesandmaps/maps.html
- samstave 8y agoWill they be selling off their fleet?
- capkutay 8y agoI used Chariot for about a year commuting from the Marina district of SF to Caltrain. It was basically an adult version of a soccer mom taking the neighborhood kids to practice in a mini van. It's definitely an improvement over taking MUNI...but its not any better than using UberPool. It wasn't 'fancy' by any means. You were just crammed into a sprinter van. As far as I remember, UberPool either wasn't available or popular at the time Chariot started. Obviously the concept of Chariot wouldn't seem viable at all if you tried to do it in 2019.
- dr_ 8y agoI’ve seen them around NYC, downloaded the app and waited for them to expand their routes but they never did. I’m not sure why. Seems like a good idea - but I suppose it may have been a challenge to compete with the wide variety of services, including public transportation, that are available in the city.
- sethhochberg 8y agoI've seen a lot of startups that have success in SF struggle with NYC because they treat it like the same kind of city. Between the half-dozen mass transit services operating in and around the city, a robust network of express commuter buses (both public _and_ private), dollar vans and gypsy cabs, there is an extremely robust transit network here - even if unconventional at times, and maligned with delays at others. By comparison, despite having roughly comparable density within the city itself, transit in SF just sucks. I'm not surprised they never gained much traction in NYC. Via seems to fill the niche Chariot would be trying to occupy, if we're looking for a direct startupy comparison, and Via additionally operates outside of commute hours. NYC has some kind of "legacy" provider for most kinds of problems, everything from on-demand delivery of food and goods 24hrs to transportation to light laborers and most of the other trendy app platform services.
- neom 8y agoI thought it would be useful when the L train shuts down and had planned to use them then, but now that's not happening I suppose they lost that advantage (also amusingly lyft has spent a boat load advertising the shut down around williamsburg recently).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- pianoben 8y agoI have such a strong feeling of deja vu right now - didn't they shut down once before already, and sell off their fleet? Is this their second shutdown?
- rconti 8y agoYou're thinking of the luxury bus services, whose name I forgot, even though I knew the founder. I believe that was SF-only.
- ceocoder 8y agoI think you are thinking of Leap[1], one that offered "luxury" buses, barista made coffee on bus etc. https://www.wired.com/2015/05/leap-suspension-shows-regulators-are-watching-startups/ https://www.wired.com/2015/05/leap-suspension-shows-regulato...
- paxys 8y agoI tried the service out for a little while, but it ultimately didn't make sense to me. Routes were too rigid, schedule not frequent enough, had to schedule trips in advance, and it cost as much or even more per ride than Uber Pool/Lyft Line.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- diiaann 8y agoI know some people are very critical. I'm a big transit enthusiast but I still see how some work routes are long to walk, but not well served via transit, i.e. NoPa to Brannan St (Airbnb, Pinterest). Friends that were faced with trickier public transit options didn't seem enticed by Chariot. They seem to settle on biking/scootering, long walk, or choosing to take rideshare everyday.
- dzonga 8y agoin Africa, we've the 'taxi' system or aptly named Kombi's after the VW model. It picks you from say downtown and drops you by the stop sign or intersection to your house. Pretty much covers almost every neighborhood and street in a decent southern african city. Guess here in the west, it got complicated via apps. & these taxis run pretty frequently i.e maybe every 10 mins depending on capacity. I live in Austin and saw Chariot and bastard westernized appified version of the african taxi system.
- olivermarks 8y agoFord owned, and Ford are making major cutbacks this week. https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-buys-chariot-65-million2016-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-buys-chariot-65-million...
- pastor_elm 8y agogreat name. Wonder how much they plan to sell it for.
- Tiktaalik 8y agoPls stop trying to re-invent public transit.
- NeonVice 8y agoPlease, keep trying to re-invent public transit if you can come up with something better.
- paulie_a 8y agoPublic transit sucks. In a lot of cases if I am with a friend I can get an Uber pool or express for the same price as public transportation. I might have to pay a small premium of 50 cents at times but the convenience is far better, and no transfers. Hell I can even use commuter benefits.
- danso 8y agoA successful company could play a part in revitalizing the public’s interest in having good transit.
- optimusclimb 8y agoThis service was a godsend when I lived there, due to how abysmal Muni was. Sorry to hear it didn't work out for them.
- badwolf 8y agoI've been using it daily here in Austin. Sad to see it go. :(
- raz32dust 8y agoSeems like such a great idea on paper. I've seen these parked in various spots in SF. Why do you think they failed? Too asset heavy? I am guessing the cost of vehicles and maintenance, parking spots, regulations etc. was too much? A similar service based on uber model might be more successful, where the company doesn't own the vehicles? Not sure how to provide reliable service that way, though. Perhaps a hybrid?
- gkoberger 8y agoI think you answered your own question inadvertently! Uber has something called Express Pool, which is about the same service/cost but more convenient. And Uber Pool / Lyft Line are only slightly more expensive but deliver you directly door to door.
- ryanbertrand 8y agoThey were acquired by Ford. Doesn’t seem like a failure...even if shitting down after 2 years.
- dawhizkid 8y agoI recently watched the Anthony Bourdain episode where he goes to Nairobi and rides on a "matatu", which are essentially privately operated party buses for commuters. I thought that was actually a pretty neat idea and could definitely see a market for that. https://explorepartsunknown.com/kenya/matatus-rule-nairobis-roads/ https://explorepartsunknown.com/kenya/matatus-rule-nairobis-...
- tnolet 8y agoThese are called mikrolet or minibus in countries like Indonesia. Super cheap, super convenient. Haven’t seen a similar thing in the Western world.
- brenschluss 8y agoThey exist in NYC. https://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/ https://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/
- stickfigure 8y agoIn Mexico and most of Latin America they are called collectivos. They're a great way to get around.
- mlevental 8y agomatatu just means taxi or something like that (it actually comes from 'three' in Swahili because the conductors used to yell "give me three" at potential passengers). they are absolutely no fun to ride since the operators pack them to the brim with people and other cargo (animals too) and they wait until full to take off (so sometimes, for infrequently traveled routes you end up waiting hours). this is all to say nothing of being in terrible disrepair. here is the taxi park in Kampala http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/37/50/05_big.jpg http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/37/50/05_big.jpg. each minivan is a matatu. source: lived in Uganda for 2 years. rode matatus countless times. almost died many times. shat myself exactly twice.
- dawhizkid 8y ago
- thrownaway954 8y agoProbably because there is absolutely NOTHING on their homepage or about page that describes what their service is in a simple manner. Their tag is "Mass Transit Reinvented"... great!!! How exactly are you doing that in layman's terms.
- hmexx 8y agoMy gf is using this everyday in London and it cuts her commute time by 30%. Godsend.. but she's alone in the bus 9 out of 10 times. We've dreaded this day but knew it would come. I'm about to tell her now. Crap!
- SilasX 8y agoWasn't it profitable when Ford acquired? Isn't there a pretty reliable userbase? How did they mess it up? I don't mean to be the conspiracy guy, but it matches the pattern of the streetcar thing: Buy car-obviating service, shut it down.
- debt 8y ago"How did they mess it up?" All I know is once I was driving down Cesar Chavez in San Francisco and I looked over and there was a massive lot filled with Chariot commuter vans. It was the daytime on Saturday. I thought dang they must be wasting a ton of money just having a whole fleet of commuter vans parked in a lot, unused simply because it was the weekend. I imagine this same mentality transferred to non-peak hours during the week as well.
- Aeolun 8y agoIt seems that there would be a lot of ways to put those vans to use during the weekend as well. I cannot imagine that was the main factor.
- canada_dry 8y agoYou're getting downvoted, but it's a valid question. What was Ford's real purpose for acquiring them in the first place?
- roymurdock 8y agoto see if it was a viable business and they could make the numbers work (they couldn't), to show the board and investors they were staying on top of the latest trends in "micro mobility", and to acquire the software dev and startup strategy talent which it can now put towards other efforts such as self-driving or other ride hailing efforts
- fouc 8y agoI think it's a fairly common pattern by now, startup gets bought out, and then shut down a few years later. There is probably strategic reasons for doing things like this.. Even if it does screw over the customers of the startup.
- scrumbledober 8y agoI had a chariot driver cut me off on my bike while i was riding down second street and he was turning left onto second across my lane. He stopped once in my lane and I didn't have enough time to stop so I hit the side of his van, somewhat damaging my bike. He looked right at me and then drove away. I tried to contact chariot about this and got absolutely nowhere. Glad to see them go.
- michaelleslie 8y agoTheir vans are an absolute terror whenever I ride down Market Street on my commute. Muni clearly has higher driver hiring standards.
- beardedwizard 8y agoI have had frequent encounters with these drivers as well as the Bauer drivers.
- ryanbertrand 8y agoI had an encounter with one of their drivers tailgating me for ~1 mile until they finally sped past me and cut me off. I was going above the speed limit. Not sure if there were customers in the car, but I would hope not.
- jelling 8y agoPSA: Via Pass is a great alternative in NYC and works with commuter benefits too
- xaybey 8y agoI used Chariot daily for my commute when I lived in the outer richmond (24th ave). Its existential purpose was to ensure you would only travel with fellow commuters, and not the raving lunatics who rode the muni. It was a kind of bridge above the fray.
- wmab 8y agoIt's a shame to say goodbye to something that is quite synonymous with San Francisco life. From the comments a lot of people don't "get it" and then think that this is the reason it failed. I'm sure it's a decision based on the complexities of scaling and working with each city and county to make a truly successful business that they ran into too many problems. Not all businesses need to grow to huge heights to not be considered successful. It's a shame they can't continue to operate in the areas that it works well in (such as here in SF). Scoot have had a hard time growing, but are as successful as ever in SF, so that should be seen as a success in itself. We now have very lofty expectations for businesses either Blitzscaling [1] or dying, but surely it doesn't need to be that binary. Clearly private solutions to commuting need to exist, people are not satisfied with the public transit in most cities. In a capitalist country, the markets will reward those who succeed. Lyft/Uber are helping somewhat, but you can point to as many articles [2] showing how over congested cities become because of them (even with pooling), which take up much more road space than buses. Let's hope someone else gives this another shot, and we don't shoot them down if they don't become a unicorn. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Blitzscaling-Lightning-Fast-Building-Massively-Companies/dp/1524761419 https://www.amazon.com/Blitzscaling-Lightning-Fast-Building-... [2] https://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-uber-lyft-congestion-20180225-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/technology/ct-uber-ly...
- save_ferris 8y agoWe're beginning to feel the crunch of car culture in the US, and not everyone is excited at the prospect of footing the bill to overhaul infrastructure and transportation systems at the public level. > In a capitalist country, the markets will reward those who succeed. This may be true, but markets will favor a solution that involves maintaining control of the system in order to generate profit. If we want our transportation system to rival that of Europe's, it won't be done through market competition for transportation services/technology. Why? Because services like ridesharing don't incentivize the development of solid public-use transportation infrastructure. They represent the next revolution of US car culture, which isn't going to benefit as many people directly once cars become unaffordable for too many Americans, a trend that is already being observed[0]. Once this happens, we're going to rely on cars more than ever because we won't have a viable alternative. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that idea. [0]: http://fortune.com/2017/06/28/car-buy-price/ http://fortune.com/2017/06/28/car-buy-price/
- elektor 8y agoFor the people that used this and are upset about Chariot shutting down, you should give Waze Carpool a try.
- gnicholas 8y agoCan you share some experience on how you’ve used Waze Carpool, or how the economics work? I’ve wondered about it but not tried it out.
- elektor 8y agoIt's essentially a simplified Uber/Lyft app where I put in my home/work address and a window of time when I make my commute. Afterwards, I see a list of people who are on my route. Then, I can offer someone a ride or request a ride. Right now Google is subsidizing rides so I think it's $2 a trip. Otherwise it's less than a dollar a mile, whatever the IRS sets the gas write-off as.
- BurritoAlPastor 8y agoGood riddance; my exposure to Chariot was mostly of them blocking the Golden Gate Transit commuter bus pickup zones.
- ctime 8y agoI'm assuming the ease and likely success of UberPool[1] was the straw that broke the camel's back. Even Waze has a similar offering [2]. Yet I'm not at all surprised they ran out of cash (I'm assuming) and had to shutter. I do feel bad for the folks (drivers and support type folks) who are now out of a job. [1] https://www.uber.com/ride/uberpool/ https://www.uber.com/ride/uberpool/ [2] https://www.waze.com/carpool https://www.waze.com/carpool
- eob 8y agoI just wanted to chime in to thank Chariot for the service they provided. In my experience, few startups literally make your entire day better. I’ve been using Chariot to commute across SF for about two years and it has given me more time at home with my wife and son, better ability to predict when I’ll arrive at work, and a way to use my commute as a quiet space for the reading I could never quite manage on a crowded bus. So thanks to the whole team. Very sorry that the numbers didn’t quite work out at the end of the day, as it often turns out in the startup game.
- ctab 8y agoThanks for the kind words. The ability to improve people's daily lives, as you described, was a big reason a lot of us chose to work there and something we were hoping to see at a larger scale eventually. Today's news came as a shock to most of us.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- leroy_masochist 8y agoSad to hear this. People talked a lot of shit about Chariot -- "Silicon Valley tech bros got funding and invented a bus route", blah blah blah -- but urban minibus routes are AWESOME when well-executed. Seriously we were promised flying cars and we can't even get marshrutki.
- laurentoget 8y agoNot very surprising. There is a problem with trying to fund urban transit by selling it as a service for those who use it. urban transit is a service which benefits every member of the community it serves , both individuals and corporations, by reducing congestion. In most places with an efficient transit network, fare revenue is not the biggest source of funding. This is shocking for americans who grow up in the post Reagan era, but some things are easier done by governments.
- hrktb 8y ago> In most places with an efficient transit network, fare revenue is not the biggest source of funding It was eye opening to me to hear about train companies that heavily invest in land development and partnered with the cities to build places to go. In Japan they own department stores and actively participate in business development to grow whole areas, wherever they see opportunities.
- Aeolun 8y agoI was so surprised to see a whole town just basically stamped out of the ground next to a new shinkansen station. Right up until I found out it was all built by the train company.
- SergeAx 8y agoIn Russia we call it "marshrootka", like "routed taxi", missing link between taxi and bus. It is a large and demanded industry, cash-only and poorly regulated. Check out the variety of minivan models and conditions with single Google Images search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D1%80%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D1%...