6 ms·

I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. We desperately need an open phone in our pockets. Everyone keeps trying to make an all-purpose dev

by kgwxd 8y ago

I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. We desperately need an open phone in our pockets. Everyone keeps trying to make an all-purpose device and the gimmick features keep holding the projects back and killing them. Just make a thing that supports the built-in screen, can handle calls/text, and that's it. I'll buy it, for a lot of money. Increment from there.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> can handle calls/text, and that's it The number of people who just want a phone to call and text is I'd imagine vanishingly small now. It won't replace anyone's proprietary smartphone like that.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  This is probably true, but how many people need a mini-HDMI port?
- ploxiln 8y ago
  True, but good video drivers, and good calls/texts, are often the very hardest parts for an open-source phone project. The rest can be improved later, by community contributors even. Historically the case has often been "well it can do wifi and browse the web, has some built-in chat apps, it's just a bit slow to scroll around, cellular data kinda works sometimes ... not worth trying to call with it, maybe next rev will have better modem support". Without calls and texts you really need another phone, so the project never gets a big enough community.
  - voltagex_ 8y ago
    It's got a low res screen and a slower processor than 2018 phones, and it costs $700 US - I don't think it's going to get a big community. I owned an OpenMoko and a N900, too - but sometimes you just need to get stuff done.
- adontz 8y ago
  But what else do you need? Facebook App?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I would imagine most people hardly use phone calls or SMS. People need maps, a browser, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Twitter, Instagram. They consider these absolute basics of a phone these days. Before you say 'all I use my phone for is phoning' well that's not what most people do by any stretch.
    - adontz 8y ago
      I will say, why you need open phone if you install Facebook and WhatsApp into it?
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        Well you don't, do you. Not many people will need or be able to use an open phone.
      - marcosdumay 8y ago
        Just because you have Facebook software running at it does not automatically mean Facebook can do anything with the phone. Getting Facebook sandboxed can be a great reason to get an open phone. It's certainly more reasonable than displaying video out.
      - noobermin 8y ago
        Why the need for purity? Firefox released an add-on to sandbox facebook tabs, you can easily make things better without having to turn yourself into a hermit.
    - baroffoos 8y ago
      The librem 5 is not a phone for most people. Its a phone for mini stallmans who want to still be contactable. I doubt anyone who spends $1000 on this phone with the specs of a $300 phone is planning to install Instagram on it. The core features people care about on this device is open source firmware, encrypted messaging, open source OS, replaceable parts, headphone jack, and sd card slot. This is the phone for the people who are not being represented by all the devices made for "most people"
- kgwxd 8y ago
  Sorry, data too. I figured that's a given. So, more specifically, Linux with a touchscreen, wi-fi and cell data/call/text. Anything else is unnecessary to get me to buy one. And it doesn't have to replace my existing phone right away. There's a trend of people opting for feature phones instead of iPhone/Android. That is what I'm going for next if something like Librem doesn't make it out soon. Now is the time to just get something out, while people are weary of the whole corporate-controlled smartphone thing, because, if that trend fades, no one outside of the Linux community is buying a Linux phone, no matter what it comes with. Just get it out, no gimmicks, not even a camera (one less thing to secure), sell it at a premium price and let the community figure out where to go from there.
  - jay_kyburz 8y ago
    Yes, but this thing is $700. A feature phone is $50. The Librem 5 needs to be something special.
    - kungtotte 8y ago
      Being free and open is something special... This is more about providing freedom in an otherwise totally un-free market instead of competing with the latest iPhone.
nerdponx 8y ago
Indeed. I would rather see a standalone libre/open Roku alternative than some kind of all-in-one solution. That said, if it works it works.
rsync 8y ago
"I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support." Isn't this just the dev kit ? I would find an HDMI port on an end-user phone to be a little odd but very useful for development ...
beatgammit 8y ago
I need a bit more than calls and text, but not that much more. If it supports Firefox and I can build stuff for it on my own (developer tools), I'll consider buying. If I can make calls and texts over WiFi with my regular number and without touching the cell chip, even better. If I can do all of that with a good user experience (meaning, stuff like Netflix, YouTube, and WebGL demos work in the browser), I'm sold. I'll be watching the project and hopefully all of my concerns about stability and bugs will be resolved. However, I think it's very likely I'll wait for the next gen of the phone.
- freedomben 8y ago
  > However, I think it's very likely I'll wait for the next gen of the phone. This is definitely my instinct too, but I worry that there may not be a next gen version if we don't buy the first. Would hate to see it abandoned because initial sales were so dismal and they took such a loss.
_red 8y ago
Agreed. My "happiest" days were with my old Blackberry. I honestly just want: Secure OS, Phone, Text/Message, and Web Browser. I don't have need for 2000 botnet apps.
cmsimike 8y ago
>I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. One of the biggest selling points for me is the external monitor support. Of course this phone isn't going to have features like carplay/android auto (and coming from carplay, I would be very sad to lose this functionality) but since this phone has a way to connect an external display, I plan on doing something to plug my phone into my car's head unit (via hdmi) and have it display GPS maps and possibly media player (through kodi). Looking forward to having the freedom to do whatever I want (hopefully) with this phone!!
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  I wonder if you'd be able to use the same code that https://getcrankshaft.com/ https://getcrankshaft.com/ is using to replace Android Auto.
j45 8y ago
If a phone could be reasonably docked on a daily basis with the desktop functionality and performance of a last gen MacBook air, there will be a lot of interest. Devices are fast enough today where previous attempts to do this were not. This is only a software problem needing solving now. A litmus test for any phone's success including this will be whether it can deliver a great (not good, not excellent) camera experience. The Essential was a great phone, minus the camera. While librem may not be a mainstream play it will be able to capture some power users. I have a pixel instead of another andoird phone for ease of updates and excellent photos. I may not take the most photos but take far more than I used to... And imagine those who take lots of photos (social, family, etc) would value it.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  The librem 5 camera will not be great, almost certainly. Maybe not even good. From my experience on Android, open source drivers for this stuff are terrible. No support or outright hostility from camera module vendors. They'll really have to try - but then again they have some financial power. I have strong doubts about the camers.
  - j45 8y ago
    I'm hoping the financial power will help too. Essential was able to have a decent camera, but the imaging software was rough and didn't improve quickly enough. I'd like to believe there is someone who's worked on the closed source software for cameras who will learn how valuable their work actually is.. And might freelance to build the OSS code that may be needed.
hinkley 8y ago
At this point the more commercially viable option is to ditch the phone for a better quality mobile hotspot. Pair that to a smart watch that doesn't require a phone, a mini tablet, and the ability to hand off calls to the watch or tablet.

by kgwxd 8y ago

chrisseaton 8y ago

> can handle calls/text, and that's it The number of people who just want a phone to call and text is I'd imagine vanishingly small now. It won't replace anyone's proprietary smartphone like that.

nerdponx 8y ago
This is probably true, but how many people need a mini-HDMI port?
ploxiln 8y ago
True, but good video drivers, and good calls/texts, are often the very hardest parts for an open-source phone project. The rest can be improved later, by community contributors even. Historically the case has often been "well it can do wifi and browse the web, has some built-in chat apps, it's just a bit slow to scroll around, cellular data kinda works sometimes ... not worth trying to call with it, maybe next rev will have better modem support". Without calls and texts you really need another phone, so the project never gets a big enough community.
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  It's got a low res screen and a slower processor than 2018 phones, and it costs $700 US - I don't think it's going to get a big community. I owned an OpenMoko and a N900, too - but sometimes you just need to get stuff done.
adontz 8y ago
But what else do you need? Facebook App?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  I would imagine most people hardly use phone calls or SMS. People need maps, a browser, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Twitter, Instagram. They consider these absolute basics of a phone these days. Before you say 'all I use my phone for is phoning' well that's not what most people do by any stretch.
  - adontz 8y ago
    I will say, why you need open phone if you install Facebook and WhatsApp into it?
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      Well you don't, do you. Not many people will need or be able to use an open phone.
    - marcosdumay 8y ago
      Just because you have Facebook software running at it does not automatically mean Facebook can do anything with the phone. Getting Facebook sandboxed can be a great reason to get an open phone. It's certainly more reasonable than displaying video out.
    - noobermin 8y ago
      Why the need for purity? Firefox released an add-on to sandbox facebook tabs, you can easily make things better without having to turn yourself into a hermit.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    The librem 5 is not a phone for most people. Its a phone for mini stallmans who want to still be contactable. I doubt anyone who spends $1000 on this phone with the specs of a $300 phone is planning to install Instagram on it. The core features people care about on this device is open source firmware, encrypted messaging, open source OS, replaceable parts, headphone jack, and sd card slot. This is the phone for the people who are not being represented by all the devices made for "most people"
kgwxd 8y ago
Sorry, data too. I figured that's a given. So, more specifically, Linux with a touchscreen, wi-fi and cell data/call/text. Anything else is unnecessary to get me to buy one. And it doesn't have to replace my existing phone right away. There's a trend of people opting for feature phones instead of iPhone/Android. That is what I'm going for next if something like Librem doesn't make it out soon. Now is the time to just get something out, while people are weary of the whole corporate-controlled smartphone thing, because, if that trend fades, no one outside of the Linux community is buying a Linux phone, no matter what it comes with. Just get it out, no gimmicks, not even a camera (one less thing to secure), sell it at a premium price and let the community figure out where to go from there.
- jay_kyburz 8y ago
  Yes, but this thing is $700. A feature phone is $50. The Librem 5 needs to be something special.
  - kungtotte 8y ago
    Being free and open is something special... This is more about providing freedom in an otherwise totally un-free market instead of competing with the latest iPhone.

nerdponx 8y ago

Indeed. I would rather see a standalone libre/open Roku alternative than some kind of all-in-one solution. That said, if it works it works.

rsync 8y ago

"I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support." Isn't this just the dev kit ? I would find an HDMI port on an end-user phone to be a little odd but very useful for development ...

beatgammit 8y ago

I need a bit more than calls and text, but not that much more. If it supports Firefox and I can build stuff for it on my own (developer tools), I'll consider buying. If I can make calls and texts over WiFi with my regular number and without touching the cell chip, even better. If I can do all of that with a good user experience (meaning, stuff like Netflix, YouTube, and WebGL demos work in the browser), I'm sold. I'll be watching the project and hopefully all of my concerns about stability and bugs will be resolved. However, I think it's very likely I'll wait for the next gen of the phone.

freedomben 8y ago
> However, I think it's very likely I'll wait for the next gen of the phone. This is definitely my instinct too, but I worry that there may not be a next gen version if we don't buy the first. Would hate to see it abandoned because initial sales were so dismal and they took such a loss.

_red 8y ago

Agreed. My "happiest" days were with my old Blackberry. I honestly just want: Secure OS, Phone, Text/Message, and Web Browser. I don't have need for 2000 botnet apps.

cmsimike 8y ago

>I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. One of the biggest selling points for me is the external monitor support. Of course this phone isn't going to have features like carplay/android auto (and coming from carplay, I would be very sad to lose this functionality) but since this phone has a way to connect an external display, I plan on doing something to plug my phone into my car's head unit (via hdmi) and have it display GPS maps and possibly media player (through kodi). Looking forward to having the freedom to do whatever I want (hopefully) with this phone!!

voltagex_ 8y ago
I wonder if you'd be able to use the same code that https://getcrankshaft.com/ https://getcrankshaft.com/ is using to replace Android Auto.

j45 8y ago

If a phone could be reasonably docked on a daily basis with the desktop functionality and performance of a last gen MacBook air, there will be a lot of interest. Devices are fast enough today where previous attempts to do this were not. This is only a software problem needing solving now. A litmus test for any phone's success including this will be whether it can deliver a great (not good, not excellent) camera experience. The Essential was a great phone, minus the camera. While librem may not be a mainstream play it will be able to capture some power users. I have a pixel instead of another andoird phone for ease of updates and excellent photos. I may not take the most photos but take far more than I used to... And imagine those who take lots of photos (social, family, etc) would value it.

solarkraft 8y ago
The librem 5 camera will not be great, almost certainly. Maybe not even good. From my experience on Android, open source drivers for this stuff are terrible. No support or outright hostility from camera module vendors. They'll really have to try - but then again they have some financial power. I have strong doubts about the camers.
- j45 8y ago
  I'm hoping the financial power will help too. Essential was able to have a decent camera, but the imaging software was rough and didn't improve quickly enough. I'd like to believe there is someone who's worked on the closed source software for cameras who will learn how valuable their work actually is.. And might freelance to build the OSS code that may be needed.

hinkley 8y ago

At this point the more commercially viable option is to ditch the phone for a better quality mobile hotspot. Pair that to a smart watch that doesn't require a phone, a mini tablet, and the ability to hand off calls to the watch or tablet.