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A mini-HDMI port seems like an odd choice. Considering most people who might use it will probably have to buy some kind of adaptor anyway, it seems like it woul

A mini-HDMI port seems like an odd choice. Considering most people who might use it will probably have to buy some kind of adaptor anyway, it seems like it would've been easier just to require a USB-C to HDMI adaptor and leverage the MHL Alternative Mode spec.[0] That, in my mind, would be preferable to adding another port that hardly anyone will use to the phone. Pretty much every smartphone/tablet I've ever owned supported some form of MHL, even when most of them only had MicroUSB. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#USB_Type-C_(MHL_Alternate_Mode) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#US...

jniedrauer 8y ago
USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux is still pretty odd. If I disconnect my displays from USB-C and then re-connect them, Wayland treats them as new displays, ie. disconnecting DP-1 and reconnecting it turns it into DP-2, etc.
- onli 8y ago
  That seems to work just fine under X...
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
    - chmln 8y ago
      Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
      - jniedrauer 8y ago
        Wayland is the default on Fedora. I've been using it exclusively for around 2 years now. Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. The sooner adoption happens, the sooner the edge cases will be worked out.
        chmln 8y ago
        > Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. Why's that? Genuinely curious as I always have the exact opposite experience. I've found both gnome wayland and sway matching neither x11's features nor performance
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        At least on my AMD box, Wayland is considerably smoother than X.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        The main reason for me is HiDPI support. Scaling works extremely well in wayland, and I can set scaling per-display. HiDPI support on X is an afterthought at best.
        ndnxhs 8y ago
        Does fractional scailing work yet. I have 1080p on a small laptop and the text is too small to read but 2x is huge. Currently I just have large text enabled in accessibility mode.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        It does, yes. Quite well. I have one of my displays at 1.5x scale.
        rhodysurf 8y ago
        Its so much smoother for me as long as I dont use an NVIDIA laptop
    - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
      My only device actually running Wayland is my AsteroidOS watch.
  - abrowne 8y ago
    "The Librem 5 will be using native Wayland applications exclusively" Source: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/
  - floatboth 8y ago
    If "DP-1 turns into DP-2", that's certainly a problem way below the X/Wayland layer.
    - onli 8y ago
      It sounds like an udev issue. But re-connecting displays works for me with USB-C. And Wayland has still very strange bugs, for example, on my workstation the login (powered by Wayland under Ubuntu) freezes upon selecting the user and again when entering a password until you move the mouse long enough in circles [0]. So somehow the user input treatment (and, secondary, rendering) is linked to the mouse input. If wayland can manage that, it can mess up on the xrandr layer equivalent and change the display enumeration. [0]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1778566 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/177856..., I reported the bug
- izacus 8y ago
  Thing is though, USB-C dongles have gotten really common and easy to find. Not to mention versatile - I can plug my S9 into the MacBook dongle and I get monitor output, sound, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet working just like on the Mac.
  - j45 8y ago
    Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive and speaks to how much longer than everyone else they've been working on a mobile docking solution. In the past the Android phones weren't fast enough and the software was lacking. While Samsung's desktop experience is improving.. Samsungs inadequate commitment to regular (and up to date) patches on a monthly basis will remain to be their Achilles heel at a professional and consumer level. I prefer my Galaxy Note to a Pixel but can't compared to a phone that is honestly and regularly updated.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      > Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive The dock is nice. The software-driven desktop experience is extremely subpar, and I'm confident that the Librem OS will be vastly better than that.
      - j45 8y ago
        I really hope some desktop first experience from librem will do it. The only other new device that captured my attention little was the essential, but their camera did their phone in. I hope Librem can get past that.
        zozbot123 8y ago
        That and the lack of a headphone jack.
- detaro 8y ago
  They say the finished phone will have USB-C. the mini-HDMI is just for the dev kits.
kgwxd 8y ago
I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. We desperately need an open phone in our pockets. Everyone keeps trying to make an all-purpose device and the gimmick features keep holding the projects back and killing them. Just make a thing that supports the built-in screen, can handle calls/text, and that's it. I'll buy it, for a lot of money. Increment from there.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > can handle calls/text, and that's it The number of people who just want a phone to call and text is I'd imagine vanishingly small now. It won't replace anyone's proprietary smartphone like that.
  - nerdponx 8y ago
    This is probably true, but how many people need a mini-HDMI port?
  - ploxiln 8y ago
    True, but good video drivers, and good calls/texts, are often the very hardest parts for an open-source phone project. The rest can be improved later, by community contributors even. Historically the case has often been "well it can do wifi and browse the web, has some built-in chat apps, it's just a bit slow to scroll around, cellular data kinda works sometimes ... not worth trying to call with it, maybe next rev will have better modem support". Without calls and texts you really need another phone, so the project never gets a big enough community.
    - voltagex_ 8y ago
      It's got a low res screen and a slower processor than 2018 phones, and it costs $700 US - I don't think it's going to get a big community. I owned an OpenMoko and a N900, too - but sometimes you just need to get stuff done.
  - adontz 8y ago
    But what else do you need? Facebook App?
thebosz 8y ago
It's only on the devkit, not the phone: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/FAQ.html#can-the-usb-c-connector-drive-an-external-display https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/FAQ.html#can-the-usb-c-con...
chx 8y ago
While I do not have exact data, I believe micro HDMI is more widespread than mini HDMI not that either is widely used. Just out of my own devices, the Kobo Arc 7 and the One Mix 2S Yoga both have micro.
teekert 8y ago
Hmm, mini-HDMI and a bluetooth mouse/keyboard seem pretty fool prove. If I'd get a decent desktop on a large screen, this could be my next laptop. (I don't really do anything on it I couldn't already do an raspberry pi anyway.)
hinkley 8y ago
One of my SBCs now has a usb-c connector for HDMI. I have never understood the really tiny HDMI connectors. I had at one point a portable projector with a mini-HDMI connector and SBCs with a micro-HDMI connector. The cabling to connect them was ridiculous. Also, rigid dongles are not compatible with tiny connectors. I'm sure that's why all the Apple adapters have tails. Too much leverage otherwise.
- toast0 8y ago
  Smaller than normal HDMI would be great for running in wall (less bulk to run into stuff; the active, thinner cables are pretty nice, but the connectors need big holes drilled), but I wasn't able to find any keystone jacks with normal on the outside and small on the inside.

jniedrauer 8y ago

USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux is still pretty odd. If I disconnect my displays from USB-C and then re-connect them, Wayland treats them as new displays, ie. disconnecting DP-1 and reconnecting it turns it into DP-2, etc.

onli 8y ago
That seems to work just fine under X...
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
  - chmln 8y ago
    Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
    - jniedrauer 8y ago
      Wayland is the default on Fedora. I've been using it exclusively for around 2 years now. Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. The sooner adoption happens, the sooner the edge cases will be worked out.
      - chmln 8y ago
        > Every time I go back to X, I'm reminded of why I use Wayland full time. Why's that? Genuinely curious as I always have the exact opposite experience. I've found both gnome wayland and sway matching neither x11's features nor performance
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        At least on my AMD box, Wayland is considerably smoother than X.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        The main reason for me is HiDPI support. Scaling works extremely well in wayland, and I can set scaling per-display. HiDPI support on X is an afterthought at best.
        ndnxhs 8y ago
        Does fractional scailing work yet. I have 1080p on a small laptop and the text is too small to read but 2x is huge. Currently I just have large text enabled in accessibility mode.
        jniedrauer 8y ago
        It does, yes. Quite well. I have one of my displays at 1.5x scale.
        rhodysurf 8y ago
        Its so much smoother for me as long as I dont use an NVIDIA laptop
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    My only device actually running Wayland is my AsteroidOS watch.
- abrowne 8y ago
  "The Librem 5 will be using native Wayland applications exclusively" Source: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-13/
- floatboth 8y ago
  If "DP-1 turns into DP-2", that's certainly a problem way below the X/Wayland layer.
  - onli 8y ago
    It sounds like an udev issue. But re-connecting displays works for me with USB-C. And Wayland has still very strange bugs, for example, on my workstation the login (powered by Wayland under Ubuntu) freezes upon selecting the user and again when entering a password until you move the mouse long enough in circles [0]. So somehow the user input treatment (and, secondary, rendering) is linked to the mouse input. If wayland can manage that, it can mess up on the xrandr layer equivalent and change the display enumeration. [0]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1778566 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/177856..., I reported the bug
izacus 8y ago
Thing is though, USB-C dongles have gotten really common and easy to find. Not to mention versatile - I can plug my S9 into the MacBook dongle and I get monitor output, sound, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet working just like on the Mac.
- j45 8y ago
  Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive and speaks to how much longer than everyone else they've been working on a mobile docking solution. In the past the Android phones weren't fast enough and the software was lacking. While Samsung's desktop experience is improving.. Samsungs inadequate commitment to regular (and up to date) patches on a monthly basis will remain to be their Achilles heel at a professional and consumer level. I prefer my Galaxy Note to a Pixel but can't compared to a phone that is honestly and regularly updated.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    > Samsung's Dex experience is really impressive The dock is nice. The software-driven desktop experience is extremely subpar, and I'm confident that the Librem OS will be vastly better than that.
    - j45 8y ago
      I really hope some desktop first experience from librem will do it. The only other new device that captured my attention little was the essential, but their camera did their phone in. I hope Librem can get past that.
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        That and the lack of a headphone jack.
detaro 8y ago
They say the finished phone will have USB-C. the mini-HDMI is just for the dev kits.

kgwxd 8y ago

I wish they'd just drop the idea of external monitor support. We desperately need an open phone in our pockets. Everyone keeps trying to make an all-purpose device and the gimmick features keep holding the projects back and killing them. Just make a thing that supports the built-in screen, can handle calls/text, and that's it. I'll buy it, for a lot of money. Increment from there.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> can handle calls/text, and that's it The number of people who just want a phone to call and text is I'd imagine vanishingly small now. It won't replace anyone's proprietary smartphone like that.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  This is probably true, but how many people need a mini-HDMI port?
- ploxiln 8y ago
  True, but good video drivers, and good calls/texts, are often the very hardest parts for an open-source phone project. The rest can be improved later, by community contributors even. Historically the case has often been "well it can do wifi and browse the web, has some built-in chat apps, it's just a bit slow to scroll around, cellular data kinda works sometimes ... not worth trying to call with it, maybe next rev will have better modem support". Without calls and texts you really need another phone, so the project never gets a big enough community.
  - voltagex_ 8y ago
    It's got a low res screen and a slower processor than 2018 phones, and it costs $700 US - I don't think it's going to get a big community. I owned an OpenMoko and a N900, too - but sometimes you just need to get stuff done.
- adontz 8y ago
  But what else do you need? Facebook App?

thebosz 8y ago

It's only on the devkit, not the phone: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/FAQ.html#can-the-usb-c-connector-drive-an-external-display https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/FAQ.html#can-the-usb-c-con...

chx 8y ago

While I do not have exact data, I believe micro HDMI is more widespread than mini HDMI not that either is widely used. Just out of my own devices, the Kobo Arc 7 and the One Mix 2S Yoga both have micro.

teekert 8y ago

Hmm, mini-HDMI and a bluetooth mouse/keyboard seem pretty fool prove. If I'd get a decent desktop on a large screen, this could be my next laptop. (I don't really do anything on it I couldn't already do an raspberry pi anyway.)

hinkley 8y ago

One of my SBCs now has a usb-c connector for HDMI. I have never understood the really tiny HDMI connectors. I had at one point a portable projector with a mini-HDMI connector and SBCs with a micro-HDMI connector. The cabling to connect them was ridiculous. Also, rigid dongles are not compatible with tiny connectors. I'm sure that's why all the Apple adapters have tails. Too much leverage otherwise.

toast0 8y ago
Smaller than normal HDMI would be great for running in wall (less bulk to run into stuff; the active, thinner cables are pretty nice, but the connectors need big holes drilled), but I wasn't able to find any keystone jacks with normal on the outside and small on the inside.