12 ms·

How We Designed the Librem 5 Dev Kit with Free Software

329 points by aquabeagle 8y ago

NedIsakoff 8y ago
So I'm reading this and I'm wondering, is Librem pulling a BlackBerry here? When the BlackBerry PlayBook came out it had no native email or calendar or contact management capabilities. Purism is going to ship the Librem 5 without the ability to do calendar, notes app, calculator app, and PDF viewer. My question is why? Why is this a good idea? Edit: Reference their site: "Upon initial shipment of the Librem 5 in 2019, it will offer the essentials: phone functionality, email, messaging, voice, camera, browsing. The featureset will expand after shipment and over time to more free software applications. Your user experience will improve as we incrementally add commonly requested applications and features (such as calendaring, notes, calculator, PDF viewer, etc.) while keeping performance in mind."
- smacktoward 8y ago
  What makes you think that? The application developer docs for the Librem 5 (https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html) are pretty clear that its default environment is based on GNOME, and that it will run apps built with both GTK+ and Plasma Mobile...
  - NedIsakoff 8y ago
    They say it on their site: Upon initial shipment of the Librem 5 in 2019, it will offer the essentials: phone functionality, email, messaging, voice, camera, browsing. The featureset will expand after shipment and over time to more free software applications. Your user experience will improve as we incrementally add commonly requested applications and features (such as calendaring, notes, calculator, PDF viewer, etc.) while keeping performance in mind.
    - smacktoward 8y ago
      That sounds less like "this device will never do these things" and more like "it will take some time for us to port software to do these things to this device." Which doesn't strike me as unreasonable, given the scope of what they're trying to accomplish. And since they're building on existing open-source systems like GTK and Flatpak, if you don't want to wait for them to port a calculator to the device, you could presumably port one yourself. The source for GNOME Calculator is right here: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-calculator https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-calculator ;-)
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  There most recent update was discussed on HN just a day ago[1], and showed the basic apps running. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866533
- ams6110 8y ago
  The phone is going to be niche regardless, and its likely users will be able to solve those problems their own way if GNOME apps are usable. Everyone is different, but for me, 90% of my phone usage is: phone calls (I have no landline phone at home), text messages, and maps/navigation. If there's no maps, I'd pass on this phone. Calendar, notes, calculator, etc. are relatively unimportant for me. Other apps are relatively unimportant to me. I don't use Facebook or other social media on my phone. I don't use ride-hailing services. I don't rent bikes or scooters. I don't use my phone to make retail payments. So none of that stuff matters to me.
  - kgwxd 8y ago
    I'm willing to go back to paper maps, I just want a damn Linux phone and I will gladly pay more than iPhone prices for it.
    - O_H_E 8y ago
      Fortunately nobody will have to, as this phone supports the internet. In addition, I am sure there are many OSM maps that will work on it anyway.
      - kgwxd 8y ago
        What about the location and GPS hardware and the security and privacy concerns that come with them? I'd rather just give up nav. Again, I'd still pay more than an iPhone without the location hardware. Could still do manual direction searching on the web, though I secretly want to go back to paper maps.
        megous 8y ago
        That's only a problem if you don't control the software.
        int_19h 8y ago
        When you're using web maps, you do not control the software - they request location, you give access to it (because you want your maps to show where you are), and you don't control that location information once it leaves your phone.
- s_tec 8y ago
  This is supposed to be a phone Richard Stallman can use. A phone that doesn't betray your freedom is more valuable than a phone with a PDF viewer, at least according to some people. At the same time, the whole point of free software is that you can hack on your own computer. If you need some missing feature, you can just port it over from Gnome. That can be either exciting or annoying, depending on whether you have a hacker mindset or a consumer mindset. They are banking on enough people having a hacker mindset.
  - 8bitsrule 8y ago
    My fingers are so crossed on this one. I've never wanted a phone to be anything else. (Nor been willing to put up with proprietary extortion and anonymous blobs.) I have been waiting (seems like forever) for a phone-sized computer with an FSF-approved philosophy. I'm sure I'm not alone. I rather imagine that (as with the early 8-bit era) such a device will be adopted quickly by thousands of us. It's just so ... BASIC. To hell with tollbridges.
    - madez 8y ago
      You are not alone.
- curioussavage 8y ago
  I've been following the software side of things fairly closely. Pretty sure most of the gnome apps have had work at least started to make them mobile friendly.
AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
A mini-HDMI port seems like an odd choice. Considering most people who might use it will probably have to buy some kind of adaptor anyway, it seems like it would've been easier just to require a USB-C to HDMI adaptor and leverage the MHL Alternative Mode spec.[0] That, in my mind, would be preferable to adding another port that hardly anyone will use to the phone. Pretty much every smartphone/tablet I've ever owned supported some form of MHL, even when most of them only had MicroUSB. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#USB_Type-C_(MHL_Alternate_Mode) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#US...
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux is still pretty odd. If I disconnect my displays from USB-C and then re-connect them, Wayland treats them as new displays, ie. disconnecting DP-1 and reconnecting it turns it into DP-2, etc.
  - onli 8y ago
    That seems to work just fine under X...
    - jniedrauer 8y ago
      Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
      - chmln 8y ago
        Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
        8y ago
caffed 8y ago
Anybody remember Openmoko? Ubuntu Edge? It's a great and noble idea, but really hard to pull off. Also, there's no final specs for the Librem 5 yet they have a 4/2019 ship date. Sure... Hats off to them if that actually happens. Does anyone have a Librem dev kit? Thoughts? I like the Linux distro + e2e encryption support and would consider this in the future when they ship.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  The biggest difference is expectations. Ubuntu edge had a $32m target, and failed with $6m in commitments. Prism has stated they'd be happy with $1.5m in sales.
- hawski 8y ago
  Am I the only one more excited about Librem 5 than about previous efforts at the time? When Openmoko shipped, I haven't even yet considered buying any smartphone. Then when Ubuntu Edge was a subject I had a phone, but thought about the project as a me-too kind. At the time there was a plethora of alternative platforms. Now I feel that things settled with mobile OSes, so it seems that there is a place for moderate hype. I had higher hopes for FirefoxOS, but devices were weak and nothing better came up. FirefoxOS set too high expectations. With Librem I feel it's a bit more straightforward. There will maybe be also Necuno Mobile with similar software stack, but cheaper hardware. So it's just maybe more realistic this time?
- louib 8y ago
  I received mine 2 weeks ago but still didn't test it. From the dev channels, I think they're still having some software issues with the screen on the dev kit. It's already possible to port software to the smaller screen using a QEMU image they provide https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/emulators.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... That's part of the reason why I still didn't test the dev board.
fest 8y ago
I'm also using KiCad for personal projects and small prototypes at work. Version 5 with a proper 3D export and interactive routing mode is definitely good enough for me. I find it much easier to use than Eagle and I don't really feel the need for Altium (for relatively low complexity things, but I don't do latest gen SoCs). What really helps for hand assembly is interactive BOM viewer plugin: https://openscopeproject.org/InteractiveHtmlBomDemo/ https://openscopeproject.org/InteractiveHtmlBomDemo/
nrp 8y ago
It seems the High Density parts of the system are on a separate off the shelf SoM (System on Module) that was presumably not designed in KiCAD. It'll be informative to see if they can continue to use KiCAD when they do the final integrated version of Librem that will presumably have the SoC on the mainboard. I'd very much like to use KiCAD for projects like that in the future, so hoping they can prove it viable.
- AWildC182 8y ago
  KiCAD and Blender (to name a few) consistently give me so much hope for the future of open source. The world is moving towards an information based economy so having free(dom) applications that allow you to design and shape the world around you without any access to capital is effectively "seizing the means of production" in the best way possible. Everyone should have the power to learn and build whatever they want with enough time and effort. $1000+ CAD packages are not the way forward...
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    I'd like to add SolveSpace to the hope-inspiring list, it's excellent for quickly slapping together and iterating engineering designs. Even with it's quirks...
    - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
      I’ve played with SolveSpace. I would love to see it grow. Is the dev on Patreon?
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    Agreed! http://tlalexander.com/wealth http://tlalexander.com/wealth http://tlalexander.com/machine http://tlalexander.com/machine
  - dbrgn 8y ago
    Shameless plug: Also check out https://librepcb.org/ https://librepcb.org/ :)
shmerl 8y ago
Doesn't miniHDMI require paying a license? Probably a waste of resources, if there is a way to route DisplayPort over USB-C?
- craftyguy 8y ago
  This is for the dev kit. I don't think there are any plans to put an HDMI connector on the final product...
  - shmerl 8y ago
    I guess, but it's still a waste for a dev kit I think.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Not really. The onboard/integrated display panel on the devkit does not have a working controller driver, so the only way we can get a display on the devkit right now is over HDMI. I wouldn't consider that a 'waste'.
      - shmerl 8y ago
        So it can't drive DisplayPort over USB-C? Then sure, something else is needed.
herodotus 8y ago
I wish the article started with a one-line description of what a "Librem DevKit" is. Then I would at least know if I wanted to read the rest of the article.
- gtsteve 8y ago
  I wondered that myself. It turns out to be a dev kit for a smartphone. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
- gregknicholson 8y ago
  Librem 5 is going to be a phone that runs free software (Purism's Debian-derived, FSF-endorsed PureOS) on mostly–open-source hardware; any closed-source hardware will be physically separated and kill-switched. The dev kit is essentially a late-alpha version of the hardware, capable of running the software.
- admax88q 8y ago
  Wow you're lazy. Just google it.
gonational 8y ago
From the FAQ about where Purism is based / made: Short answer: South San Francisco, CA USA Longer answer: ... China ...
- joemi 8y ago
  The full long answer for more accurate information: Longer answer: Worldwide. Purism sources component parts from China, Taiwan, Japan, and the United States. Purism builds, assembles, quality control tests, and delivers all our hardware from our South San Francisco facility, USA. Purism has employees, contractors, and volunteers from around the world. China is only mentioned as one of four countries where the component parts are sourced. It notes specifically that their hardware is built, assembled, and tested in San Francisco. If you've ever sourced electronics components, you'll recognize all four of those countries as the largest component sources. This is pretty standard for most electronics manufacturers.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    Will the full phone really be assembled in San Francisco? Sounds - expensive.
  - gonational 8y ago
    The thing that’s concerning is whether or not the board or processor or memory is made in China.
emilfihlman 8y ago
This is great!
Maskawanian 8y ago
Once this is shipped as a real product, with reviews that it is functional and doesn't require tinkering constantly. I will drop money on it. I'm getting excited!
dman 8y ago
Having ordered one, I am waiting for them to ship!
Phenomenit 8y ago
My biggest concern with using a phone sans ios/android is not being able to use the ID app used in Sweden for basically everything important. It's used everywhere now, banks, government, my kids preschool, insurance etc etc. As soon as I can figure out a way around this I'm going back to a feature phone. My dreamphone is iPhone 3gs sized, has gps and maps, Hotspot and the app I mentioned before.
- bepvte 8y ago
  there is a chance with anbox. however the project is very rough right now and never was gotten to work on ubuntu touch. hopefully they dont use too much of google play services very annoying device verificaton systems as well.
  - GranPC 8y ago
    Anbox can actually run on UBPorts devices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdiIwXK2ssQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdiIwXK2ssQ
- megous 8y ago
  Is it not based on an open protocol?
- tfolbrecht 8y ago
  You could run Android in a container. I run an android container and Linux container, thought not at the same time on a computer with mobile specs: Intel Celeron N3060, RAM: 2 GB SSD: 8 GB and I can use Snapchat, Instagram, VS Code, etc A well configured OS is magic, and with Lamby on the purism team, I'm sure it's going to knock socks off.
  - znpy 8y ago
    That's interesting. How did you get that container running? I tried running Android via anbox and my laptopb basically exploded as the Android container suddenly allocated more than two gigabytes of ram (having been running Firefox didn't help...). Have you got some notes or a blog post about that? I would really really be interested. TY in advance!
winslow 8y ago
Does anyone know what language(s) will be used for app development? My understanding from reading the documentation is that it will be GTK+ for the UI and there are 2 examples of C/GTK+ apps. Since this is a debian linux distro and applications will be distributed via a debian repo, could you theoretically write it in any language ex: python, java, c++ and use GTK+ or QT? Doc Source: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html
- znpy 8y ago
  If the examples are in C/GTK+ that means that as long as your language of choice has a runtime on (or can be compiled to) the Librem 5 CPU architecture AND has a binding to GTK+ available, that should "run", if my understanding is correct.
- chupasaurus 8y ago
  It would be basically a Linux arm64 device, anything could be used. GTK+ is used by Purism for their default apps, but Plasma Mobile will be in their repo too. And you could install any Linux distro which supports arm64.
- spotman 8y ago
  There is some beginning work being done to have libhandy wrappers in rust. I have gotten their qemu environment up and running and will be tinkering on rust+gtk apps which I hope has a future in this ecosystem. But yea by default it appears most stuff is c and gtk right now.
Karupan 8y ago
Question as a cautiously excited potential buyer: Do we know what apps it will be launched with? Is there documentation on that somewhere?

329 points by aquabeagle 8y ago

So I'm reading this and I'm wondering, is Librem pulling a BlackBerry here? When the BlackBerry PlayBook came out it had no native email or calendar or contact management capabilities. Purism is going to ship the Librem 5 without the ability to do calendar, notes app, calculator app, and PDF viewer. My question is why? Why is this a good idea? Edit: Reference their site: "Upon initial shipment of the Librem 5 in 2019, it will offer the essentials: phone functionality, email, messaging, voice, camera, browsing. The featureset will expand after shipment and over time to more free software applications. Your user experience will improve as we incrementally add commonly requested applications and features (such as calendaring, notes, calculator, PDF viewer, etc.) while keeping performance in mind."

smacktoward 8y ago
What makes you think that? The application developer docs for the Librem 5 (https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html) are pretty clear that its default environment is based on GNOME, and that it will run apps built with both GTK+ and Plasma Mobile...
- NedIsakoff 8y ago
  They say it on their site: Upon initial shipment of the Librem 5 in 2019, it will offer the essentials: phone functionality, email, messaging, voice, camera, browsing. The featureset will expand after shipment and over time to more free software applications. Your user experience will improve as we incrementally add commonly requested applications and features (such as calendaring, notes, calculator, PDF viewer, etc.) while keeping performance in mind.
  - smacktoward 8y ago
    That sounds less like "this device will never do these things" and more like "it will take some time for us to port software to do these things to this device." Which doesn't strike me as unreasonable, given the scope of what they're trying to accomplish. And since they're building on existing open-source systems like GTK and Flatpak, if you don't want to wait for them to port a calculator to the device, you could presumably port one yourself. The source for GNOME Calculator is right here: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-calculator https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-calculator ;-)
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
There most recent update was discussed on HN just a day ago[1], and showed the basic apps running. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18866533
ams6110 8y ago
The phone is going to be niche regardless, and its likely users will be able to solve those problems their own way if GNOME apps are usable. Everyone is different, but for me, 90% of my phone usage is: phone calls (I have no landline phone at home), text messages, and maps/navigation. If there's no maps, I'd pass on this phone. Calendar, notes, calculator, etc. are relatively unimportant for me. Other apps are relatively unimportant to me. I don't use Facebook or other social media on my phone. I don't use ride-hailing services. I don't rent bikes or scooters. I don't use my phone to make retail payments. So none of that stuff matters to me.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  I'm willing to go back to paper maps, I just want a damn Linux phone and I will gladly pay more than iPhone prices for it.
  - O_H_E 8y ago
    Fortunately nobody will have to, as this phone supports the internet. In addition, I am sure there are many OSM maps that will work on it anyway.
    - kgwxd 8y ago
      What about the location and GPS hardware and the security and privacy concerns that come with them? I'd rather just give up nav. Again, I'd still pay more than an iPhone without the location hardware. Could still do manual direction searching on the web, though I secretly want to go back to paper maps.
      - megous 8y ago
        That's only a problem if you don't control the software.
        int_19h 8y ago
        When you're using web maps, you do not control the software - they request location, you give access to it (because you want your maps to show where you are), and you don't control that location information once it leaves your phone.
s_tec 8y ago
This is supposed to be a phone Richard Stallman can use. A phone that doesn't betray your freedom is more valuable than a phone with a PDF viewer, at least according to some people. At the same time, the whole point of free software is that you can hack on your own computer. If you need some missing feature, you can just port it over from Gnome. That can be either exciting or annoying, depending on whether you have a hacker mindset or a consumer mindset. They are banking on enough people having a hacker mindset.
- 8bitsrule 8y ago
  My fingers are so crossed on this one. I've never wanted a phone to be anything else. (Nor been willing to put up with proprietary extortion and anonymous blobs.) I have been waiting (seems like forever) for a phone-sized computer with an FSF-approved philosophy. I'm sure I'm not alone. I rather imagine that (as with the early 8-bit era) such a device will be adopted quickly by thousands of us. It's just so ... BASIC. To hell with tollbridges.
  - madez 8y ago
    You are not alone.
curioussavage 8y ago
I've been following the software side of things fairly closely. Pretty sure most of the gnome apps have had work at least started to make them mobile friendly.

AdmiralAsshat 8y ago

A mini-HDMI port seems like an odd choice. Considering most people who might use it will probably have to buy some kind of adaptor anyway, it seems like it would've been easier just to require a USB-C to HDMI adaptor and leverage the MHL Alternative Mode spec.[0] That, in my mind, would be preferable to adding another port that hardly anyone will use to the phone. Pretty much every smartphone/tablet I've ever owned supported some form of MHL, even when most of them only had MicroUSB. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#USB_Type-C_(MHL_Alternate_Mode) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link#US...

jniedrauer 8y ago
USB-C definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. USB-C support on Linux is still pretty odd. If I disconnect my displays from USB-C and then re-connect them, Wayland treats them as new displays, ie. disconnecting DP-1 and reconnecting it turns it into DP-2, etc.
- onli 8y ago
  That seems to work just fine under X...
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    Wayland definitely seems like the way forward. But we're in a weird in-between state where it's not fully supported by the ecosystem yet. Etc.
    - chmln 8y ago
      Wayland is not the default on most Linux distributions for a reason and likely won't be for a while. Surprised to see it picked as a foundation as it is not mature at all, despite the protocol being around for a decade now.
      - 8y ago

caffed 8y ago

Anybody remember Openmoko? Ubuntu Edge? It's a great and noble idea, but really hard to pull off. Also, there's no final specs for the Librem 5 yet they have a 4/2019 ship date. Sure... Hats off to them if that actually happens. Does anyone have a Librem dev kit? Thoughts? I like the Linux distro + e2e encryption support and would consider this in the future when they ship.

bryanlarsen 8y ago
The biggest difference is expectations. Ubuntu edge had a $32m target, and failed with $6m in commitments. Prism has stated they'd be happy with $1.5m in sales.
hawski 8y ago
Am I the only one more excited about Librem 5 than about previous efforts at the time? When Openmoko shipped, I haven't even yet considered buying any smartphone. Then when Ubuntu Edge was a subject I had a phone, but thought about the project as a me-too kind. At the time there was a plethora of alternative platforms. Now I feel that things settled with mobile OSes, so it seems that there is a place for moderate hype. I had higher hopes for FirefoxOS, but devices were weak and nothing better came up. FirefoxOS set too high expectations. With Librem I feel it's a bit more straightforward. There will maybe be also Necuno Mobile with similar software stack, but cheaper hardware. So it's just maybe more realistic this time?
louib 8y ago
I received mine 2 weeks ago but still didn't test it. From the dev channels, I think they're still having some software issues with the screen on the dev kit. It's already possible to port software to the smaller screen using a QEMU image they provide https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/emulators.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... That's part of the reason why I still didn't test the dev board.

fest 8y ago

I'm also using KiCad for personal projects and small prototypes at work. Version 5 with a proper 3D export and interactive routing mode is definitely good enough for me. I find it much easier to use than Eagle and I don't really feel the need for Altium (for relatively low complexity things, but I don't do latest gen SoCs). What really helps for hand assembly is interactive BOM viewer plugin: https://openscopeproject.org/InteractiveHtmlBomDemo/ https://openscopeproject.org/InteractiveHtmlBomDemo/

nrp 8y ago

It seems the High Density parts of the system are on a separate off the shelf SoM (System on Module) that was presumably not designed in KiCAD. It'll be informative to see if they can continue to use KiCAD when they do the final integrated version of Librem that will presumably have the SoC on the mainboard. I'd very much like to use KiCAD for projects like that in the future, so hoping they can prove it viable.

AWildC182 8y ago
KiCAD and Blender (to name a few) consistently give me so much hope for the future of open source. The world is moving towards an information based economy so having free(dom) applications that allow you to design and shape the world around you without any access to capital is effectively "seizing the means of production" in the best way possible. Everyone should have the power to learn and build whatever they want with enough time and effort. $1000+ CAD packages are not the way forward...
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  I'd like to add SolveSpace to the hope-inspiring list, it's excellent for quickly slapping together and iterating engineering designs. Even with it's quirks...
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    I’ve played with SolveSpace. I would love to see it grow. Is the dev on Patreon?
- TaylorAlexander 8y ago
  Agreed! http://tlalexander.com/wealth http://tlalexander.com/wealth http://tlalexander.com/machine http://tlalexander.com/machine
- dbrgn 8y ago
  Shameless plug: Also check out https://librepcb.org/ https://librepcb.org/ :)

shmerl 8y ago

Doesn't miniHDMI require paying a license? Probably a waste of resources, if there is a way to route DisplayPort over USB-C?

craftyguy 8y ago
This is for the dev kit. I don't think there are any plans to put an HDMI connector on the final product...
- shmerl 8y ago
  I guess, but it's still a waste for a dev kit I think.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Not really. The onboard/integrated display panel on the devkit does not have a working controller driver, so the only way we can get a display on the devkit right now is over HDMI. I wouldn't consider that a 'waste'.
    - shmerl 8y ago
      So it can't drive DisplayPort over USB-C? Then sure, something else is needed.

herodotus 8y ago

I wish the article started with a one-line description of what a "Librem DevKit" is. Then I would at least know if I wanted to read the rest of the article.

gtsteve 8y ago
I wondered that myself. It turns out to be a dev kit for a smartphone. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
gregknicholson 8y ago
Librem 5 is going to be a phone that runs free software (Purism's Debian-derived, FSF-endorsed PureOS) on mostly–open-source hardware; any closed-source hardware will be physically separated and kill-switched. The dev kit is essentially a late-alpha version of the hardware, capable of running the software.
admax88q 8y ago
Wow you're lazy. Just google it.

gonational 8y ago

From the FAQ about where Purism is based / made: Short answer: South San Francisco, CA USA Longer answer: ... China ...

joemi 8y ago
The full long answer for more accurate information: Longer answer: Worldwide. Purism sources component parts from China, Taiwan, Japan, and the United States. Purism builds, assembles, quality control tests, and delivers all our hardware from our South San Francisco facility, USA. Purism has employees, contractors, and volunteers from around the world. China is only mentioned as one of four countries where the component parts are sourced. It notes specifically that their hardware is built, assembled, and tested in San Francisco. If you've ever sourced electronics components, you'll recognize all four of those countries as the largest component sources. This is pretty standard for most electronics manufacturers.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  Will the full phone really be assembled in San Francisco? Sounds - expensive.
- gonational 8y ago
  The thing that’s concerning is whether or not the board or processor or memory is made in China.

emilfihlman 8y ago

This is great!

Maskawanian 8y ago

Once this is shipped as a real product, with reviews that it is functional and doesn't require tinkering constantly. I will drop money on it. I'm getting excited!

dman 8y ago

Having ordered one, I am waiting for them to ship!

Phenomenit 8y ago

My biggest concern with using a phone sans ios/android is not being able to use the ID app used in Sweden for basically everything important. It's used everywhere now, banks, government, my kids preschool, insurance etc etc. As soon as I can figure out a way around this I'm going back to a feature phone. My dreamphone is iPhone 3gs sized, has gps and maps, Hotspot and the app I mentioned before.

bepvte 8y ago
there is a chance with anbox. however the project is very rough right now and never was gotten to work on ubuntu touch. hopefully they dont use too much of google play services very annoying device verificaton systems as well.
- GranPC 8y ago
  Anbox can actually run on UBPorts devices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdiIwXK2ssQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdiIwXK2ssQ
megous 8y ago
Is it not based on an open protocol?
tfolbrecht 8y ago
You could run Android in a container. I run an android container and Linux container, thought not at the same time on a computer with mobile specs: Intel Celeron N3060, RAM: 2 GB SSD: 8 GB and I can use Snapchat, Instagram, VS Code, etc A well configured OS is magic, and with Lamby on the purism team, I'm sure it's going to knock socks off.
- znpy 8y ago
  That's interesting. How did you get that container running? I tried running Android via anbox and my laptopb basically exploded as the Android container suddenly allocated more than two gigabytes of ram (having been running Firefox didn't help...). Have you got some notes or a blog post about that? I would really really be interested. TY in advance!

winslow 8y ago

Does anyone know what language(s) will be used for app development? My understanding from reading the documentation is that it will be GTK+ for the UI and there are 2 examples of C/GTK+ apps. Since this is a debian linux distro and applications will be distributed via a debian repo, could you theoretically write it in any language ex: python, java, c++ and use GTK+ or QT? Doc Source: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html

znpy 8y ago
If the examples are in C/GTK+ that means that as long as your language of choice has a runtime on (or can be compiled to) the Librem 5 CPU architecture AND has a binding to GTK+ available, that should "run", if my understanding is correct.
chupasaurus 8y ago
It would be basically a Linux arm64 device, anything could be used. GTK+ is used by Purism for their default apps, but Plasma Mobile will be in their repo too. And you could install any Linux distro which supports arm64.
spotman 8y ago
There is some beginning work being done to have libhandy wrappers in rust. I have gotten their qemu environment up and running and will be tinkering on rust+gtk apps which I hope has a future in this ecosystem. But yea by default it appears most stuff is c and gtk right now.

Karupan 8y ago

Question as a cautiously excited potential buyer: Do we know what apps it will be launched with? Is there documentation on that somewhere?