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This is about the only kind of vegan proselytizing that I can stomach. If you can make food that tastes as good as meat, with nutrition similar to meat, and se

This is about the only kind of vegan proselytizing that I can stomach. If you can make food that tastes as good as meat, with nutrition similar to meat, and sell it at a lower price than meat, I will switch overnight, and never look back. And it would be nice if it came in bulk forms, rather than just as pre-formed patties. I eat ground beef a lot more often than I eat burgers. Until then, good luck with the test kitchen research. The results so far indicate that the developers understand the problem they need to solve.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
This. I want my tacos and burgers to taste like tacos and burgers. I don't care whether it's "real" beef or not. If someone's selling 80/20 that's blended with some plant product (or even just 100% plant product) and it's substantially cheaper than 80/20 and tastes about the same then that's what I'm gonna buy. So far no option like that exists on the shelf. All the fake meat options cater to the people who shop at whole foods and I'll take value priced 80/20 over that any day.
- w0utert 8y ago
  Most of the meat you get from the ‘easy’ places like supermarkets tastes terrible anyway, compared to quality meat from a specialist store. I’ve long ago stopped eating chicken almost completely because of this, in the end you just taste whatever you serve with the chicken, and you get a certain bite from it that is easily imitated using ‘fake meat’. I’m pretty sure I will never be a strict vegetarian, but I honestly don’t see the point of eating cheap mass-produced meat over some more environmental- and/or animal-friendly produced alternative anymore. Quality over quantity please. I cannot understand how so many people disagree, especially those who claim to love meat.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    > I cannot understand how so many people disagree, especially those who claim to love meat. Well for starters, a lot of them probably can't afford higher quality meat. Quality over quantity doesn't work if the quantity goes down too far.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    People have different priorities. Some people insist on eating high end food or driving high end cars or drinking high end wine or all/some/none of those. I eat cheap mass produced meat because it's often an ingredient in the things I put on the menu (hamburgers about once a week and tacos about once a month). I buy the store brand. If someone wants to make a more environmentally friendly semi-meat or non-meat product that is a drop in replacement for meat in my use case and is superior in any other way (shelf life, price, health, taste, etc) and equal in the rest then I will use it. At present nobody has done that for beef.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
wvlia5- 8y ago
So you are basically saying "if I had to make no effort at all and I could also save some money, I would switch". Yes, that's obvious, everyone would, it's redundant to state it. But what those 'vegan proselytizers' are asking you for, is to not be so selfish and make a bit of a sacrifice to spare the lives of others. But of course, you 'can't stomach' to be asked to not be selfish, and they are the ones to blame.
- bluGill 8y ago
  My values are not yours. I do not consider animal lives worth valuing or deserving of rights. This is a fundamental disagreement, the only possible peaceful solution is agree to disagree (I hope we don't come down to the non-peaceful ones)
  - pstuart 8y ago
    > I do not consider animal lives worth valuing For the sake of discussion, do you have a pet? Or have loved ones that have a pet? If you were to torture that pet would you feel anything? Would your loved ones object for any reason?
    - barrkel 8y ago
      Well-being of animals is distinct from slaughtering them for food. The beef I buy comes from cows that roam in fields, usually in Ireland. They're not unhappy then, as I can attest having grown up in the countryside. And the fact there are so many of them means the total lifetime happiness (of the cows at least) probably outweighs their death, if it's done humanely.
      - wvlia5- 8y ago
        Please, describe to me this 'humane killing' process, what does it look like?
        pstuart 8y ago
chris11 8y ago
I did see an impossible meatloaf in a grocery store, and it looks like their website is showing ground beef. So it looks like they are slowly branching out into other products.
- be-ez 8y ago
  Impossible is not currently available directly to consumers. They do not make a meatloaf - it is possible the grocery store bought the raw product and is selling their own meatloaf.
  - cr0sh 8y ago
    That, or they saw the "Beyond Burger" being used in a similar manner. Beyond seems to be moving into that space, and Impossible is giving them the moment. Whether (or if) Impossible can recapture that market segment remains to be seen.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    > it is possible the grocery store bought the raw product and is selling their own meatloaf. Possible but seems pretty unlikely. Also, I don't think they'd be allowed to use Impossible's trademark in that case. I feel like the GP must be misremembering.
    - chris11 8y ago
      https://www.facebook.com/molliestonesmarkets/photos/a.76495492928/10156518273192929/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/molliestonesmarkets/photos/a.764954... I've also heard that Impossible sells the burger meat to restaurants unshaped, so my guess is that they are just using that to make meatloaf. Edit: the meatloaf was served by the deli premade, it wasn't sold individually packaged.
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
What if the 'proselytizing' was environmental instead? Switching away from meat would lessen your footprint considerably, and likely improve your health[1] even if you don't care about the moral arguments. 1: http://time.com/4266874/vegetarian-diet-climate-change/ http://time.com/4266874/vegetarian-diet-climate-change/
- LanceH 8y ago
  This is really the most compelling argument to me and has me reducing (specifcally red) meat consumption.
  - kibwen 8y ago
    Thirded, even as someone who has no intent of going full vegetarian anytime soon, in the past year I've significantly reduced the amount of meat, particularly red, that I eat on a regular basis. I'm just fine with reserving my meat meals for special occasions.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  By the environmental footprint argument, I could do far greater good for it by murdering the person with the largest footprint, and altering the remainder of my lifestyle not at all. To ask those with the smallest prints to wear smaller shoes is ridiculous while some still wear a different yacht on each foot. You ask the man with the ha'penny to give a farthing, while the man on the gold throne is unmolested. If I save the whole Earth, will I get to keep some of it, or will title to the vast majority of the habitable area remain with those who made my interventions necessary? It's a matter of incentives. Why should I bust my ass to live green on a rented 1/8 of an acre, while my neighbor that owns the 400 sqmi ranch is buying pipes and pumps specialized to move liquefied manure by the cubic meter, and blowing cigar smoke in my face when I complain about the smell? Go annoy the asshats that can actually make a difference by changing their behavior, or save your arguments for a political campaign. My only stake in the environment is my own survival. If it down comes to that, I already know I'm expendable. I won't just lay down and die, though; I'm going to at least try to eat the rich, instead of my vegetables.
cr0sh 8y ago
> This is about the only kind of vegan proselytizing that I can stomach. If you can make food that tastes as good as meat, with nutrition similar to meat, and sell it at a lower price than meat, I will switch overnight, and never look back. I'm wanting to try it out someday, and am willing to pay the price for a "restaurant burger" made using the product - but the cost is too great currently for the home market. If they can reduce this, while making the product better, then I'm all for it. That said - before I would be willing to switch fully, they'd have to be able to replicate a few kinds of cuts that are currently - well - impossible: 1. Well marbled aged rib-eye - steak and roast form, bone in 2. Pork shoulder 3. Full-size beef brisket, fat cap and all, plus tip One day, perhaps...
vel0city 8y ago
IRT meat substitutes coming in bulk forms as opposed to pre-formed patties, I've had "Beyond Meat" before which comes as a ground beef substitute as well as patties. The prices for Beyond Meat weren't much higher than the leanest ground beef at the grocery store. https://www.beyondmeat.com/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/
- ksec 8y ago
  It is currently selling at around $30 /kg for Patties. Retails for Ground Beef goes around $10 / Kg. I would certainly not call that cheap or even affordable.
  - vel0city 8y ago
    Ah, last time I saw it in the store I just saw a package of patties for ~$5.50. I had assumed it was about the same quantity of food as the packages it was next to, but I guess they come in 2-packs compared to the other patties next to them being 4-packs. I've mostly had it prepared in restaurants, with its price comparable to getting the steak option.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

This. I want my tacos and burgers to taste like tacos and burgers. I don't care whether it's "real" beef or not. If someone's selling 80/20 that's blended with some plant product (or even just 100% plant product) and it's substantially cheaper than 80/20 and tastes about the same then that's what I'm gonna buy. So far no option like that exists on the shelf. All the fake meat options cater to the people who shop at whole foods and I'll take value priced 80/20 over that any day.

w0utert 8y ago
Most of the meat you get from the ‘easy’ places like supermarkets tastes terrible anyway, compared to quality meat from a specialist store. I’ve long ago stopped eating chicken almost completely because of this, in the end you just taste whatever you serve with the chicken, and you get a certain bite from it that is easily imitated using ‘fake meat’. I’m pretty sure I will never be a strict vegetarian, but I honestly don’t see the point of eating cheap mass-produced meat over some more environmental- and/or animal-friendly produced alternative anymore. Quality over quantity please. I cannot understand how so many people disagree, especially those who claim to love meat.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  > I cannot understand how so many people disagree, especially those who claim to love meat. Well for starters, a lot of them probably can't afford higher quality meat. Quality over quantity doesn't work if the quantity goes down too far.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  People have different priorities. Some people insist on eating high end food or driving high end cars or drinking high end wine or all/some/none of those. I eat cheap mass produced meat because it's often an ingredient in the things I put on the menu (hamburgers about once a week and tacos about once a month). I buy the store brand. If someone wants to make a more environmentally friendly semi-meat or non-meat product that is a drop in replacement for meat in my use case and is superior in any other way (shelf life, price, health, taste, etc) and equal in the rest then I will use it. At present nobody has done that for beef.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

wvlia5- 8y ago

So you are basically saying "if I had to make no effort at all and I could also save some money, I would switch". Yes, that's obvious, everyone would, it's redundant to state it. But what those 'vegan proselytizers' are asking you for, is to not be so selfish and make a bit of a sacrifice to spare the lives of others. But of course, you 'can't stomach' to be asked to not be selfish, and they are the ones to blame.

bluGill 8y ago
My values are not yours. I do not consider animal lives worth valuing or deserving of rights. This is a fundamental disagreement, the only possible peaceful solution is agree to disagree (I hope we don't come down to the non-peaceful ones)
- pstuart 8y ago
  > I do not consider animal lives worth valuing For the sake of discussion, do you have a pet? Or have loved ones that have a pet? If you were to torture that pet would you feel anything? Would your loved ones object for any reason?
  - barrkel 8y ago
    Well-being of animals is distinct from slaughtering them for food. The beef I buy comes from cows that roam in fields, usually in Ireland. They're not unhappy then, as I can attest having grown up in the countryside. And the fact there are so many of them means the total lifetime happiness (of the cows at least) probably outweighs their death, if it's done humanely.
    - wvlia5- 8y ago
      Please, describe to me this 'humane killing' process, what does it look like?
      - pstuart 8y ago

chris11 8y ago

I did see an impossible meatloaf in a grocery store, and it looks like their website is showing ground beef. So it looks like they are slowly branching out into other products.

be-ez 8y ago
Impossible is not currently available directly to consumers. They do not make a meatloaf - it is possible the grocery store bought the raw product and is selling their own meatloaf.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  That, or they saw the "Beyond Burger" being used in a similar manner. Beyond seems to be moving into that space, and Impossible is giving them the moment. Whether (or if) Impossible can recapture that market segment remains to be seen.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  > it is possible the grocery store bought the raw product and is selling their own meatloaf. Possible but seems pretty unlikely. Also, I don't think they'd be allowed to use Impossible's trademark in that case. I feel like the GP must be misremembering.
  - chris11 8y ago
    https://www.facebook.com/molliestonesmarkets/photos/a.76495492928/10156518273192929/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/molliestonesmarkets/photos/a.764954... I've also heard that Impossible sells the burger meat to restaurants unshaped, so my guess is that they are just using that to make meatloaf. Edit: the meatloaf was served by the deli premade, it wasn't sold individually packaged.

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

What if the 'proselytizing' was environmental instead? Switching away from meat would lessen your footprint considerably, and likely improve your health[1] even if you don't care about the moral arguments. 1: http://time.com/4266874/vegetarian-diet-climate-change/ http://time.com/4266874/vegetarian-diet-climate-change/

LanceH 8y ago
This is really the most compelling argument to me and has me reducing (specifcally red) meat consumption.
- kibwen 8y ago
  Thirded, even as someone who has no intent of going full vegetarian anytime soon, in the past year I've significantly reduced the amount of meat, particularly red, that I eat on a regular basis. I'm just fine with reserving my meat meals for special occasions.
logfromblammo 8y ago
By the environmental footprint argument, I could do far greater good for it by murdering the person with the largest footprint, and altering the remainder of my lifestyle not at all. To ask those with the smallest prints to wear smaller shoes is ridiculous while some still wear a different yacht on each foot. You ask the man with the ha'penny to give a farthing, while the man on the gold throne is unmolested. If I save the whole Earth, will I get to keep some of it, or will title to the vast majority of the habitable area remain with those who made my interventions necessary? It's a matter of incentives. Why should I bust my ass to live green on a rented 1/8 of an acre, while my neighbor that owns the 400 sqmi ranch is buying pipes and pumps specialized to move liquefied manure by the cubic meter, and blowing cigar smoke in my face when I complain about the smell? Go annoy the asshats that can actually make a difference by changing their behavior, or save your arguments for a political campaign. My only stake in the environment is my own survival. If it down comes to that, I already know I'm expendable. I won't just lay down and die, though; I'm going to at least try to eat the rich, instead of my vegetables.

cr0sh 8y ago

> This is about the only kind of vegan proselytizing that I can stomach. If you can make food that tastes as good as meat, with nutrition similar to meat, and sell it at a lower price than meat, I will switch overnight, and never look back. I'm wanting to try it out someday, and am willing to pay the price for a "restaurant burger" made using the product - but the cost is too great currently for the home market. If they can reduce this, while making the product better, then I'm all for it. That said - before I would be willing to switch fully, they'd have to be able to replicate a few kinds of cuts that are currently - well - impossible: 1. Well marbled aged rib-eye - steak and roast form, bone in 2. Pork shoulder 3. Full-size beef brisket, fat cap and all, plus tip One day, perhaps...

vel0city 8y ago

IRT meat substitutes coming in bulk forms as opposed to pre-formed patties, I've had "Beyond Meat" before which comes as a ground beef substitute as well as patties. The prices for Beyond Meat weren't much higher than the leanest ground beef at the grocery store. https://www.beyondmeat.com/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/

ksec 8y ago
It is currently selling at around $30 /kg for Patties. Retails for Ground Beef goes around $10 / Kg. I would certainly not call that cheap or even affordable.
- vel0city 8y ago
  Ah, last time I saw it in the store I just saw a package of patties for ~$5.50. I had assumed it was about the same quantity of food as the packages it was next to, but I guess they come in 2-packs compared to the other patties next to them being 4-packs. I've mostly had it prepared in restaurants, with its price comparable to getting the steak option.