38 ms·

A Guide for Adults Going to College

216 points by jqcoffey 8y ago

mrfusion 8y ago
I’ve always wondered how employers treat an older person changing careers? Do you get an internship along with the young people? Is that wierd? Will they be uncomfortable asking a 45 year old professional to do low status jobs? And then are entry level jobs open to older adults? How would you design your resume? Leave your past career off?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- eterm 8y ago
  This may be a culture thing but I'd be uncomfortable asking a 20 year old professional to bring me a coffee. Edit: This was originally in response to a suggestion that OP would be uncomfortable asking a 40 year old for coffee which has since been edited.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    Nobody brings coffee for anyone anymore. Everyone gets up and gets a coffee together or if someone is being nice asks if you want one and brings it to you which usually leads to getting up to get a coffee together.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > Will they be uncomfortable asking a 45 year old professional to bring them coffee? This isn't what interns do at any reputable technology company.
  - mrfusion 8y ago
    Noted. I’ve edited it to be more clear what I was trying to express.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      Do interns in technology jobs do low status jobs either? My experience is interns usually try the big cool new ideas, because it frees up the regular people to bring work to production and it doesn't matter so much if the interns try something and it doesn't work?
      - fooker 8y ago
        >big cool new ideas Can confirm, have interned at 3 of the big $N.
      - azhenley 8y ago
        Can also confirm. Did 5 internships at a variety of companies. I got to try out radical new ideas and was given a surprising amount of freedom.
      - sjg007 8y ago
        The primary goal with interns in tech is to convince them to work at your company post graduation.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- zigzaggy 8y ago
  All very good questions. I’m at the Senior Manager level in my profession, trying to switch to entry / junior level in IT security. I have solid experience and great references, and I get calls from clients and recruiters constantly for work in my current field. But I get practically no responses when I submit myself for positions in the new field. I tracked one recruiter down recently and she basically told me she’s convinced I will not stick around once I feel the pinch of the salary reduction. She said she didn’t want to be hiring for the same job again in 6 months. I’m not sure that’s the whole truth, or if the others would say the same thing. Now I’m trying a hybrid solution, of freelancing gigs in grants and proposals part time and doing technical work part time. I’m also focusing my work on tech-centric topics whenever possible. But I usually can’t conteol that. I’m also considering supplementing my current education with CS classes, and picking up a few more certs. But I’m not sure those will have a good return on investment. Meanwhile I think persistence in bidding on jobs will be the ultimate solution.
  - mrfusion 8y ago
    Can you find an in between job. Maybe it does what you do now mostly but has some aspect of what you want to switch to?
    - zigzaggy 8y ago
      Good idea, that’s possible. The challenge has been finding that job opening, and then getting it. Maybe I should go to the companies where I know that position exists and proactively bid on a position, rather than waiting for one to open up. Thanks for the idea!
  - sjg007 8y ago
    You might have better luck becoming a manager of or in an IT security company. That way you can learn the technical details on the side. So you sell your value as a manager. Lateral moves happen all the time across domains. You don't have to start from the beginning again.
    - zigzaggy 8y ago
- azhenley 8y ago
  In my experience, software engineering seems more open to nontraditional career paths. I've known plenty of people to get into it later in life and came from a variety of backgrounds without a problem. Most people probably never find out that they had a prior career. At an internship I lived with a fellow intern that was 12 years older than me (I was also a bit older compared to most of the interns since I was a PhD student). Everyone seemed to treat him the same and he got a full-time offer. I don't think the others ever realized he had 10 years experience and a degree in something completely different!
- walshemj 8y ago
  A few years ago mainly to keep the DHSS happy when claiming Job Seekers Allowance I applied for an apprenticeship with HMGCC. My idea was that some one might see my atypical CV and think outside the box about hiring.
twoquestions 8y ago
How does this fare in cultures where there are no second chances, like many places in the US? My gut says this is a scam.
- owlninja 8y ago
  What exactly are you referring to?
  - twoquestions 8y ago
    Going to college after the appointed time, that is right after high school. If someone does so and makes it work, that's wonderful, but at least around here I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not experience, especially with legions of twentysomethings beating down the doors begging for a job before the rent savings run out.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      > I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not experience But why would they care if two people have the same experience but one is older? What difference does it make that they wouldn't tolerate?
      - twoquestions 8y ago
        From what I've read here on HN (and other places), even with experience, ageist bigotry is a significant impact on people's careers, I can only imagine it's worse sans experience.
        athenot 8y ago
        On the bright side, those are probably the companies you don't want to work for. It is one of the signals for bad company culture.
        jm__87 8y ago
chrisseaton 8y ago
I went back to university as an adult with a mortgage, wife, daughter on the way, and I did an internship. Nobody seemed to particularly notice or care that I was older and I'm not sure it changed anything.
- throwaway427 8y ago
  How old were you when you did it?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    26, so not a lot older in years, but at a very different point in my life - settled with wife, mortgage etc, which makes a big difference I think.
- ProAm 8y ago
  What did you go back for degree wise?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    PhD computer science.
    - ProAm 8y ago
      What did you do before? Was it a total career change, or just getting MS/PHD in same field? Also did you name on of your kids null?
- vba 8y ago
  where abouts/uni? did you need to relocate? did your wife/funding get you enough to cover mortgage?
theparanoid 8y ago
I'm switching careers from tech to nursing. Being older--mid-thirties--hasn't been an issue. It helps that healthcare has less of an age bias than computing.
- rwbt 8y ago
  Interesting. Do you mind telling us what made you choose nursing over tech?
  - theparanoid 8y ago
    Everybody at my old company was laid after 50, flexible hours: full-time, part-time, on-call, and working 40 hours a week in a cubicle gets really old.
    - fma 8y ago
      I'm 35...I've too considered nursing or PA for the same reason. I know I'm "young" but the writing is on the wall for the age bias. Nursing/PA is decent pay, always work opportunities, can't get outsourced (easily). You also don't have BS job interviews. If you have updated certifications and aren't an ass... Hired! You also get continuation education too! I also like that it's hourly. The hospital needs you for OT? More money. As you get older and have more money, less expenses you can choose to work less and enjoy free time. Unless you are freelance or consulting, software doesn't have that flexibility. Maybe in a few years...
    - BeetleB 8y ago
      >flexible hours: full-time, part-time, on-call, and working 40 hours a week in a cubicle gets really old. Counterpoints (if in the US): Capitalism is a real thing. If you work in a hospital you will be pushed to the point where things are unsafe for the patient, and if something goes wrong, you will be blamed and lose your license. A culture exists where everyone tries to cover their ass. If you work as a contractor (i.e. you work for a firm that sends you to different hospitals based on shortages), you will be the first person to be blamed. Unlike in tech, seniority is the main way to get better salaries and benefits. You won't get too far by performing really well. The attitudes and behavior of fellow coworkers (nurses and nurse assistants) would be considered quite unprofessional in a typical engineering workplace. Depending on which unit you work, patients can be horrible. You'll get all kinds of attitudes. Psychopaths, etc. If you stick to it, expect long term injuries: https://www.npr.org/series/385540559/injured-nurses https://www.npr.org/series/385540559/injured-nurses "James Collins, a research manager in the NIOSH Division of Safety Research, says before studying back injuries among nursing employees, he focused on auto factory workers. His subjects were "93 percent men, heavily tattooed, macho workforce, Harley-Davidson rider type guys," he says. "And they were prohibited from lifting over 35 pounds through the course of their work." Nursing employees in a typical hospital lift far heavier patients a dozen or more times every day. "That was my biggest shock and surprise," Collins says. "And the big deal is, the injuries are so severe that for many people, they're career-ending."" (Experience will vary with what type of nursing you work - some nursing is a lot milder - but pays less).
ddoolin 8y ago
I really want to go back to finish school. I'm 28 and dropped out at the end of my 3rd year with 97 credits because I had a baby on the way in another country. I've been working as a software engineer ever since. I did try one semester at a CC shortly after but my job was too demanding on top of parenting a wee lad and I took a slate of all Fs, sadly, since I missed the withdrawal date. Now I have the time, funds, and motivation to return and do well (I hope) but fear my sliding grades towards the end would put a nail in the coffin of going to decent university near me (Southern California). I think my real-world experience would help me a lot here, particularly if I applied to a CS program, but I'm not sure. I will speak to admissions counseling soon to get their feedback, but if anyone here has similar experience, I'd love to hear about it.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  If you've got a solid software resume under you already, I'm not sure a CS degree will open any new doors for you, or teach you much that you haven't already learned. Most employers (that you'd want to work for) only care about a degree if you don't have work experience.
  - ddoolin 8y ago
    Yes, that's true to some extent, though my primary goal is not to open new doors necessarily. It certainly would strengthen my position when applying for certain spots, but really I want to fill in the deep gaps in my knowledge in certain areas in CS/Mathematics and explore entirely new ones as well. This isn't a decision I'd take lightly either way, given the cost.
- sjg007 8y ago
  Your application essay is probably where you would talk about why you want the opportunity to finish your degree and what benefit you will bring to the institution. Highlighting appropriate adult behaviors like "taking responsibility" for you child etc... Your real world experience will definitely help you.
  - 8y ago
gojomo 8y ago
I'm looking forward to someone writing "It's Always Too Early". It'd be a guide for people of all ages to acquire the same education/network/skills as college purportedly offers, without the immense monetary and opportunity costs of the legacy university system.
- jshowa3 8y ago
  Problem is many companies work off this legacy system and won't hire you without a degree. No engineering degree, no law degree, no doctor degree, no degree at all? No thanks. Of course I'm not saying there are other ways, but its very naive to think that you can get anywhere without one. Not only that, the "legacy university system" is a system that's big on research and has invented things like the very Internet you used to type this comment. Autonomous vehicles were an early university project funded by DARPA before they even reached the mainstream public. In fact, most modern products are the result of university research. Its not so much the university as it is the cost of university.
  - gojomo 8y ago
    Sure, but many of the best companies are deemphasizing traditional credentials, commensurate with the bloating of the the university system and the rise of other training/evaluation methods. With student debts and the rise of alternative tracks, we may be very close to a rapid tipping point, where the apparent safety of the traditional credentials – with stodgier institutions – collapses quickly. And, the university system of 2019 isn't quite the same thing as the university system that gave us "the very Internet… used to type this comment" and other advances. It's a several-generations-removed descendant, with much higher costs, larger bureaucracy, more bundled tangential "lifestyle" services, heavier political loads, and so forth. That some legacy university research has historically generated societal dividends isn't necessarily relevant to a prospective undergrad in 2019. That's especially so for those struggling with the kinds of questions addressed by the 'Never Too Late' book, like "What do I do if it's been ages since I took algebra?" They need efficient instruction. The fact that groundbreaking grant-funded research by graduate students might be happening in a nearby building is about as relevant as their school's football ranking in the Top-25 polls.
porphyrogene 8y ago
It is never too late for education. It is always too early for crippling debt that exceeds your proven earning potential. None of this advice touches on the lost principle of not putting one's future on layaway. Student load debt forgiveness is a death sentence for American politicians yet there are millions of us waiting for a miracle.
- ZhuanXia 8y ago
  Even the ability to declare bankruptcy would be nice. Millions are in a state of what amounts to indenture.
  - qubex 8y ago
    I don’t mean to be contentious here, but the reason for which student debt cannot be discharged by bankruptcy is pretty sound: it’s because education (theoretically) adds warning power to an individual and cannot be liquidated. (I’m not a lawyer and am not an American either.)
    - jgamman 8y ago
      IIRC this was a policy decision change only 20 odd years ago. (also, not a lawyer or USAan)
      - zackmorris 8y ago
        You're correct, the George W. Bush administration banned student loans from bankruptcy in 2005: https://bostonstudentloanlawyer.com/discharging-student-loans-in-bankruptcy-almost-but-not-quite-impossible/ https://bostonstudentloanlawyer.com/discharging-student-loan... But you'll notice that it wasn't really talked about at the time in mainstream news (however, I knew about it as a progressive): https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+student+loan+bankruptcy+2005 https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+student+loan+b... For example, "student" is not mentioned on this page: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7575010/ns/business-personal_finance/t/bush-signs-tougher-bankruptcy-bill-law/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7575010/ns/business-personal_finan... So many young people today think that this is how it always was, and don't realize that it's nonsense. Originally meant to decrease the deficit or whatnot, but having the opposite effect of raising the deficit as the US has become more uneducated and susceptible to ignorance. Unfortunately a lot of other draconian legislation was passed at that time - see the DMCA, etc. Now that the truth is coming out though, there's hope that some of this can get reversed after 2020 if enough people learn about the true history of controversial issues like these.
dawhizkid 8y ago
What is the consensus on coding schools in 2019? I'm looking at app academy and lambda school.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?s=21 https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?... There are multiple companies whose engineering headcount growth YOY is bigger than the total number of annual CS + bootcamp grads in the US. Yes, there are a lot more engineers coming on board now. But the growth in demand is mind-boggling. https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21 In case you were wondering whether the engineering hiring market was slowing down, here’s Amazon deploying probably every YC company combined on one product: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-over-10-000-employees-working-on-alexa-echo-1542138284 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-over-10-000-...
nkot 8y ago
What are the chances of attending Harvard / Stanford later in life? I have a life goal of going there but the older I get (24 now), the less I believe it can form into a reality.
- currymj 8y ago
  If you can come up with a compelling story and a reason (other than bragging rights), and can prove you have academic skills, you will have a shot. The goal is to convince the admissions committee who are just a few people, so you want to try and form a mental model of how they think. But why those two? Even if you are solely focused on prestige in the most superficial sense, there are at least a few more comparable US universities. You could increase your number of options by 5x or 10x even being very picky.
- btowngar 8y ago
  Undergraduate or graduate? I began my Stanford PhD as a 27 year old, after spending a number of years in the workforce. It's not at all unusual for grad students to be in their mid to late twenties.
  - donaldknuth123 8y ago
    Particularly at Stanford with SCPD, it can be something of a backdoor to a Stanford Engineering Graduate degree. http://scpd.stanford.edu/search/publicCourseCertificateSearch.do?method=searchCert&courseSearch.courseDescriptionKeyword=&courseSearch.certificateStringArray=MS+Degree&buttonSearch=Search http://scpd.stanford.edu/search/publicCourseCertificateSearc...
- stale2002 8y ago
  Attending Harvard is actually quite easy. They offer classes, both online and onsite, for anyone who is willing to pay tuition. These classes are offered under a program called "Harvard Extension School", and they are the same exact classes that students who got accepted the "normal" way, take. It even gets you a degree. If what you care about is the education and resources offered by Harvard, they are available for the taking, and they are the same exact classes offered to "regular" students.
dver 8y ago
Mid 50's here. As my kids are hitting college age I'm starting to get the itch to go back and complete my degree. My company has a facility near Cal Poly, where I went, and I drive by on my way in and out of town when I go onsite. Really don't know what to expect, figure I'll just wander on campus and stop by the admin building and see what they have to say. I'll bring my old student ID with me, just in case.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  I'm a fair bit younger than yourself, but I did that recently at U of Toronto. So I don't know if this anecdote helps, but I've been out of school for a few years now since I last attended— I had to set an appointment with an administrator/registrar who wanted to discuss what I've been doing (work history, bit of life history—but these were more for their understanding than formally required), but ultimately the process for me, should I decide to move forward was: * re-register (a quick form and small fee) * the usual rigamarole— get my new student ID, register for courses when available, and carry on. It was remarkably simpler than I thought it would be—even with the potential for switching programs and internal schools altogether.
- abecedarius 8y ago
  In my experience you can just show up the first day and ask the prof if they mind you auditing the course. There might be password-locked online materials these days, however. I've thought about going back to finish the degree, but it's hard to see it as worth $60k/year.
  - dver 8y ago
    Agree, I'll have a value point to balance as well. I don't expect it to have any net effect on my career at this point, hope there is some worthwhile learning though.
danablast 8y ago
It's never too late to get into debt.
two2two 8y ago
I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way: - community college have great professors - community college treats you like the adult you are - community college is underrated - university treats you like a child - university professors are more selfish and self-serving - university is busy dealing with so much extra-curricular stuff that most adults don't care about, it makes you question your decision - Different "schools" within the university do things differently - as an adult, it sucks to work in groups with young students - I picked up way more knowledge in the "real world" than I realized as a lot of what is being taught is redundant - there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ At the onset of this journey, I was enthusiastic to learn, but along the way I've been beat down to just wanting to get "the piece of paper" and be done. It's been a long three years and each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. I don't think anyone needs a degree anymore to get to where they're going. However, it does make it easier depending on one's path.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ Could you provide some more details about the community college curriculum you are talking about? To my knowledge, the local community colleges offer what is essentially the first two years of a university education, with a reduced emphasis on your actual major. >each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. This means that you are not taking advantage of the resources available to you. Typically, the advice to people with energy left over after classes is that they should contact the labs at their institution and become miniature grad students. You also should try to register for graduate level courses, talking to whoever is in charge at your institution if necessary. Universities offer many avenues for gifted students that want to do more work than everybody else, and I would say that fact is the main thing that separates them from community colleges.
lkrubner 8y ago
Recently on Hacker News there was a top voted article in which the economist Nassim Nicolas Taleb made the point that a lot of small bets have a higher expected value than one very large bet. But the argument has interesting implications for education. The same reasoning implies that 4 degrees of 1 year should have more payoff to society than 1 degree of 4 years. Likewise, society would benefit more if you got 12 degrees of 3 months each. I wrote more about this here: http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-taleb-accidentally-argues-against-4-year-school-degrees http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-taleb...
- ggm 8y ago
  Taleb's insight applies where there is no linkage between bets. The problem is, a 4 year degree "if done right" is building on a body of knowledge. you can't "do" year 4 without the core competencies in years 1,2 and 3. So, (and I admit I didn't read your article) I ask if you address the neccessary linkage problem. Because a chain of 4 small bets is what we call a quinella or trifecta, and in betting circles its high payoff, but low likelihood: It may be better to commit to the whole big package than assume you can bite of chunks and always get the same value. A midpoint model, is to do 1 or 2 years, get a low degree, then do 2 or 3 more and specialize for a high degree.
  - lkrubner 8y ago
    You miss the point that Taleb is making. His point is something like “Rather than one big bet in biology, what about a small bet in biology, a small bet in physics, a small bet in chemistry.” Likewise, in education, instead of spending 4 years learning one thing, what about spending one year learning one thing, another year learning something else, another year learning something else, another year learning something else, and so on. Smaller, more diverse bets. The argument is especially strong for young people at the start of their career, as the risk of being overcommitted to the wrong thing is strong.
gumby 8y ago
When I was an undergrad there was a 35-year-old real estate developer living in my dorm. He had decided he'd like to have a degree and enrolled at MIT. I wish I had understood what it must have been like for him since there was nobody else in the building under 25. I know he had a sense of humor as I saw him once bring a date (around his age) back to his room. But though we talked a bit I couldn't really comprehend what someone twice my age thought about being a student...and now I'm 17 years older than he was at the time I'd be fascinated to know.
wpdev_63 8y ago
I don't understand why anyone would consider going back to college when there's very legitimate online course options that cost a fraction. Look through edx.org and see for yourself. Remember there's no guarantee that going back to school will net you the job you want but it's a guarantee that you will go into crippling debt that will follow you for the rest of your life. Unless of course your company is paying for you to go back to school then why not.
- gowld 8y ago
  Where are the lab classes in edx? Where are the vocational courses in edx? Where are the teaching assistants and the study groups? Where are the 12+ course bachelors-degree curricula?
  - devgutt 8y ago
    it seems a startup in the need.
  - wpdev_63 8y ago
    Imagine the person smart enough to substitute each of those things with something freely available. Just imagine.
- analog31 8y ago
  Some people can do it, others can't. I would have had a very hard time coming up with the amount of sustained motivation needed to learn my college subjects on my own. I ended up majoring in subjects where the classroom setting was beneficial to me. I have also taught myself a variety of other subjects, so it varies from subject to subject for me. The daughter of one of my friends had a baby at age 16, was allowed to graduate from high school early (i.e., kicked out), and got an online degree from a good university. She said the hardest part was the sheer boredom, sitting at home in front of a computer all day.
generallee5686 8y ago
I have a pessimistic view of all this. If you are able to get into a college program easily, the job market will be shit once you get out. If the job market would be great, you'll never get into a program. Colleges have stupid games based on a point system to get in. The games are HEAVILY biased towards people just out of high school. You only get points for shit like having taken classes at the school before or your parents being alumni. Having real world working experience doesn't give you any points. My wife was thinking about going to nursing school. In order for her to do that she would need to quit her job take random classes for the _chance_ to eventually get into a program. We're ready to pay cash for the program which she would certainly succeed in, but there is just no chance. Was a real bummer once we realized this. I guess this all makes sense, just frustrating.
rwhitman 8y ago
I've been curious if there are any creative financial or work/education balance strategies for a tech professional going back to school, that might not be obvious? Networking with professors? Working at the university? Or finding an employer that subsidizes grad school? Haven't seen too much on my radar in this area but have heard there are unconventional ways to offset the cost or level up by leveraging my network & career. (For context - I'm in my late 30's, ~17 years in tech though my degree is from a trade art school, and in an engineering management role these days in Los Angeles. I've been seriously considering grad school either for CS or MBA.)
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
"It's never too late" Well I would agree, but since the UK adopted the US model of university funding, it's too late, and has been for some time. I'd love to career change into something different. £27k of tuition fees and three years not earning makes it a £150k+ proposition. No matter how bored I've become with tech after 30 years that's a big ask. Open University charges the same fees now or that would have been an easy and obvious route. Just as it was for my aunt who did a OU degree in her seventies "for fun". From what I hear from the kids university isn't as appealing either as they've become ever more commercial. Friends who are in lower paying careers are even more stuck. The push to get 50% of the population with a degree means even the most lowly jobs and careers often now require a degree. I guess when I become too much the curmudgeonly old git I'll take early retirement and do some part time gardening, handyman or some such. Shame for the govt about the tax I won't be paying. :)
- alexgmcm 8y ago
  Yeah - access to education needs to improve. Especially as technology means a lot of lectures could be given online with just needing to sit exams, do labs (for certain subjects) etc. Honestly Corbyn's idea of the National Education Service (i.e. access to education from cradle to grave) would easily win my vote if it wasn't for his Brexit support...
- a-saleh 8y ago
  You could try some of the lesser known universities in Europe, a.f.a.i.k tuition is around 1k to 3k eur per semester (i.e. my IT faculty in Brno, CZK has 3k Eur per academic year). I finished my masters here, I consider the education quality reasonably good (hey, I even helped my theis advisor to publish a paper :) and I worked part-time for most of the time. Friend of mine just finished his BCs, while supporting his partners a family and working part-time.
jeena 8y ago
Because of how the German school system is build (Hauptschule, Realschule, Gymnasium) and me migrating to Germany at 11 years of age without the knowledge of the German language, I had to do it differently and attend something like Gymnasium as an adult after my first vocational training (to become a heating engineer) and because of life happening and me once again migrating to another country (Sweden) without the knowledge of the language, I started university when I was 30. Everyone else was about 20, partying and drinking, and I was studying 100% and working 50%. It was kind of hard and I'm about 10 years late with my life (compared to everyone else at work) but I finally feel that I am doing something which is challenging and fun at work and I earn a lot more than before. The only bad thing is the biological clock not stopping to match everything else ^^.
- znpy 8y ago
  Keep going! Good luck!
- 171243 8y ago
  Yeah but what you gained from that experience is beyond measure. I assume you're bi or tri-lingual now?
  - jeena 8y ago
    Four-lungual, I needed to learn English too.
BuckRogers 8y ago
There's a problem with society, in the west, but I'll speak to the US specifically. My wife just received her Masters degree. Her and I have family that act as if life is hopeless. All ages. We tell them, "the schools aren't closed". The wishing upon a star has to stop with people. Take action. It's a culture in decline, and seeing how the school system directs my wife to not instill discipline in children, combined with the intrinsic low-wage push from capitalism without unions or worker's cooperatives, the entire US workforce will be eaten alive by the Indians and Chinese. It's almost guaranteed to continue, and has already happened. A quick example on that, her school system (one of the largest in the nation) instructs her to let the kids who don't want to listen to a book to roll around, yell, play. Then she's to pull them aside later on and teach them one-on-one, while the rest are napping. That's not only disruptive, but it's not feasible. I think this culture change (it was not this way when I was in elementary in the 1980s), has doomed generations to wandering around the streets aimlessly. Possibly using drugs as so many are today, as immigrants come in and completely obliterate them from the job market. I'm not an immigrant but I say, let the strong survive and weaker cultures, like ours is becoming, collapse into mediocrity. The lucky ones who get the opportunity to turn it around later in life will be looking at "the guide for adults going to college" today, 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 50 years from now. My wife and I believe that you can't really learn without a baseline of discipline. There's enough distractions as it is and bad families to fight against. Kids need guidance. They don't actually know anything. The people who let their kid choose a hamburger vs hot dog vs grilled cheese for 15 minutes in a fast food joint? That's a small example of the problem. A child doesn't know what he's even picking, or what he even likes. You give him something, you very strongly encourage him finish his food, and next time he may have a better idea on what he wants. That's a long-lost art of parenting in the west. Everyone treats children like they're 35 years old. Unless it's about going outside and playing, where they could truly learn about choices and consequences. Second point, on the the "formal education is obsolete" crowd. I needed a bachelors degree and truly enjoyed the directed-learning experience, otherwise I'm self-taught. People like to say they're all self-taught, but people who also do school, do both. There's not additional real-world experience that you gleam because you don't go to school. It's nice to get evidence for your learning as well (a degree) and directed-learning is incredibly valuable, you're exposed to things that the vast majority won't expose themselves to otherwise. People who call for the end of traditional education because Youtube or websites exist are just wishing upon a star that things get easier. Further on formal education, community college is amazing. I also have an Associate of Applied Science degree. In fact, if I were to do it all over again, I would likely pick electrician/HVAC/plumbing/welding for my AA/AS and get a BA in Education or BS in CompSci, to really cover being employable. I've spent a lifetime programming, and truly benefited from some online sources as well, especially Pluralsight, though most instructors there are well-vetted professionals, many authors there are not the best in designing coursework. Purposefully checking into algorithms and some of the math behind it all was also helpful. That's where lack of an education background causes one to fall apart, people online do not know about how to educate, and you don't know what you don't know to even look into, and why traditional directed education is as relevant as ever. A third thing people miss, if you care about the best learning experience. Many people seek a degree to get a job, it doesn't earn you a job or even make you employable, it earns you credibility. I wouldn't go to school unless you have a thirst for learning, because to put it to work in a beyond mediocre fashion, will require continuous learning.
andyv 8y ago
When I was a graduate teaching assistant at a 4-year university, the re-entry students never failed to impress me. They were the most determined students I had. They weren't afraid to confront me when I made a mistake, and I made a few.
filmgirlcw 8y ago
I think about going back for my MBA sometimes (slightly different from the article, but still similar in other ways), but I'm at the mid point in my career and I'm not convinced the money and time I spend going back would actually help me further my career more than building connections and actually doing the work. Senior managers I've talked to have agreed with my assessment. At best, an MBA would get me back to where I've already managed to get myself, but with maybe more attention for certain recruiters. I'm a big fan of anyone wanting to further their education for whatever the reason -- and I do wish I could sometimes just study really interesting subjects again -- but for a lot of working professionals, I sometimes wonder if the degree will really matter? Obviously, some professions are different than others and really do require a certain degree to even get in the door (medicine, law, sciences), but by the time I was 34, I'd managed to successfully build two careers in different disciplines, and neither was the focus of my degree. (And I took forever to graduate.) Every person and situation is different so I don't want to pretend my experiences are prescriptive for anyone else -- but what I value about my undergrad experience is much less "what I learned" and the experiences I had growing up, having time to explore things I care about, etc. Frankly, I wish there was a collegiate equivalent of a GED that would cover undergrad required classes like a science, a math class, english lit, history, etc. Make people take the actual degree classes, but allow people to test out of all the basic requirements (I realize CLEP allows for some of this but CLEP isn't accepted everywhere and there can be CLEP caps for credits). I feel like for a lot of adult learners, this would greatly reduce the mental challenge of "going back." What I wish this had touched on more is the pervasive and predatory nature of for-profit colleges and universities. I'm all for anyone going back to school, but it makes me sick when people pay tens of thousands of dollars for bad programs from fro-profit places that have a very small chance at even helping them get a better job.
pie_hacker 8y ago
I believe the title is slightly misleading; most college students are above 18 and are thus widely considered to be adults. This guide seems to be written for adults who are 25 and older, which is a subset of all adults.
gnulinux 8y ago
I want to go back to school. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so even though I have a Bachelor's in CS, I still feel half-baked. I studied CS only because I freaking love it and learning more is my utter passion. I want to have a graduate degree in CS... but how? I have a job, I have other stuff to do now, and taking an almost decade investment sounds way too much (in US PhDs can take very long). I'm a very socially awkward dude and spending my entire 20s in PhD almost seems socially "risky". Did someone else have experience on this matter? I have otherwise have the funds and passion to pursue this.
- pure_ambition 8y ago
  Follow your inner voice. Sounds like it’s telling you to look seriously at grad school. Most people I find will tell you to not do it, but I say go for it. Don’t worry about the social risk; it’s just because you’re outside of the academic sphere right now.
- 171243 8y ago
  Georgia Tech's Online Masters of Computer Science. 100% online and same degree you get from the on campus program which happens to be a top 10 in the nation. There is no research track unfortunately which means it is a terminal masters program.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    What is "terminal masters program"? Does it mean I won't be able to have a research track in the future even if I wanted?
  - opportune 8y ago
    Not sure where you're getting that a non-thesis masters program is "terminal". You can still go somewhere to get a PhD with a non-research master's degree, not even necessarily somewhere "bad". If anything the fact that the degree is online would hurt you more than the fact that there was no thesis
zoom6628 8y ago
Shout out to massey.ac.nz which is one of the very first universities world wide to have serious 'extra mural' programme. They have decades of experience and everything is tuned for the working adult. For anybody in any country should seriously consider. They have extramural students from all over the world because you get world class staff, from a world class university, at NZ prices. Anybody in US should seriously consider it an option for higher learning. FYT i did a post graduate Diploma in QUality Assurance with specialty in software engineering through Massey with course work done 1993-95 and finally delivered my project in 1997 after changing countries and jobs. Cant praise them enough.
danellis 8y ago
I've often wondered, is there a way to get a reputable CS degree that leverages a couple of decades of work experience to make the process shorter? The article says so in the general case, but what about specifically for CS?
sys_64738 8y ago
There's a pivot point for when going to college doesn't have the ROI, IMO. I got a CS degree at 22 and did an MBA in my 30s. When I did a law degree in my late 30s I quickly realized it wasn't worth it unless I was doing it for the pure academic PoV. But I wanted a law degree to practice law but decided that it wasn't worth it in my case. I was almost 40. FWIW, I also discovered there are two types of law degree. A Harvard law degree and a non-Harvard law degree. It was quite an eye opener that one.
somberi 8y ago
I am hoping to hear suggestions or real-life experience of anyone who has gone back to do their Phd after turning 50. My wife and I, both professionally and financially settled, are looking to stop working at 50, and take up something close to our hearts, which will be our _second_ 20-year innings. We would like to start that innings with doing a Phd in that field. We both have Masters and an MBA in our respective fields. The next innings will be based on our current experience (30+ years) and our education, but hoping to apply it in a macro, policy framework, for which will go back to study.
lsc 8y ago
"The other important thing to do is to help adults identify why they want to go back to school. If you can identify what it is that's motivating you, then that can be your rallying cry when you're starting to feel discouraged or anxious about starting school." Lol. So I've been reading stuff about our ideas of free will; most recently David Orr's book on Frost; but the quote above really sounds like they're suggesting we decide to do something and then need to "identify what it is that's motivating you" I.E. to rationalize it. I'm not saying they're wrong, it's just a funny way to put it.
madiathomas 8y ago
I dropped out in 2004 to start a job as a Programmer. I was broke and needed some cash. I was left with 4 subjects to complete Computer Systems Engineering qualification. Which is 60% IT and 40% Electrical Engineering. I decided to enroll for an IT qualification in 2015 at the age of 33. Best decision I have ever taken. I graduated last year September at the age of 36 and I am no longer considered an IT dropout or self-taught Programmer. Reason I decided to go back to school was because I was always considered a self-taught Programmer, even though I was taught programming in a formal qualification which I didn't finish. The fact that I finished all programming related modules and was only left with 3-4 Electrical Engineering related modules, didn't help. Studying when you are older is easier because you are doing it with a purpose. Plus when you are older, you spend more time at home and party less. Freeing more time for studying. The course I did, was heavy in programming, mobile app development and web design. Something I have been doing for over 10 years before I decided to go back to studying.
wink 8y ago
I don't get this. Sure, it's been a while since I started university (fall 2003) but is stuff really spoonfed to starter students? I'm not saying you have to deliberately make everything hard - but we got a little bit of introduction in the first week and then were sent off to cope on our own. You had the other students, older semesters and whatever else resource to solve your problem. I don't think I'd want it any other way these days (oh wow, 15 years later) or feel that anything except the first week was tailored to people fresh from school. Sure - people taking courses around their work schedule is a problem, but it's a totally different problem. Either you know it's supposed to be a fulltime course, or it's not. Also, maybe I'm a little biased for having majored in Computer Science, so mostly everything was digital or online even back then. But smartphones would make coordination with other people so much easier than email and texts... Or maybe American (live-in / campus) colleges are really that different from German universities that I simply cannot imagine the problems this book would show :P

216 points by jqcoffey 8y ago

I’ve always wondered how employers treat an older person changing careers? Do you get an internship along with the young people? Is that wierd? Will they be uncomfortable asking a 45 year old professional to do low status jobs? And then are entry level jobs open to older adults? How would you design your resume? Leave your past career off?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
eterm 8y ago
This may be a culture thing but I'd be uncomfortable asking a 20 year old professional to bring me a coffee. Edit: This was originally in response to a suggestion that OP would be uncomfortable asking a 40 year old for coffee which has since been edited.
- sjg007 8y ago
  Nobody brings coffee for anyone anymore. Everyone gets up and gets a coffee together or if someone is being nice asks if you want one and brings it to you which usually leads to getting up to get a coffee together.
chrisseaton 8y ago
> Will they be uncomfortable asking a 45 year old professional to bring them coffee? This isn't what interns do at any reputable technology company.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  Noted. I’ve edited it to be more clear what I was trying to express.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    Do interns in technology jobs do low status jobs either? My experience is interns usually try the big cool new ideas, because it frees up the regular people to bring work to production and it doesn't matter so much if the interns try something and it doesn't work?
    - fooker 8y ago
      >big cool new ideas Can confirm, have interned at 3 of the big $N.
    - azhenley 8y ago
      Can also confirm. Did 5 internships at a variety of companies. I got to try out radical new ideas and was given a surprising amount of freedom.
    - sjg007 8y ago
      The primary goal with interns in tech is to convince them to work at your company post graduation.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
zigzaggy 8y ago
All very good questions. I’m at the Senior Manager level in my profession, trying to switch to entry / junior level in IT security. I have solid experience and great references, and I get calls from clients and recruiters constantly for work in my current field. But I get practically no responses when I submit myself for positions in the new field. I tracked one recruiter down recently and she basically told me she’s convinced I will not stick around once I feel the pinch of the salary reduction. She said she didn’t want to be hiring for the same job again in 6 months. I’m not sure that’s the whole truth, or if the others would say the same thing. Now I’m trying a hybrid solution, of freelancing gigs in grants and proposals part time and doing technical work part time. I’m also focusing my work on tech-centric topics whenever possible. But I usually can’t conteol that. I’m also considering supplementing my current education with CS classes, and picking up a few more certs. But I’m not sure those will have a good return on investment. Meanwhile I think persistence in bidding on jobs will be the ultimate solution.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  Can you find an in between job. Maybe it does what you do now mostly but has some aspect of what you want to switch to?
  - zigzaggy 8y ago
    Good idea, that’s possible. The challenge has been finding that job opening, and then getting it. Maybe I should go to the companies where I know that position exists and proactively bid on a position, rather than waiting for one to open up. Thanks for the idea!
- sjg007 8y ago
  You might have better luck becoming a manager of or in an IT security company. That way you can learn the technical details on the side. So you sell your value as a manager. Lateral moves happen all the time across domains. You don't have to start from the beginning again.
  - zigzaggy 8y ago
azhenley 8y ago
In my experience, software engineering seems more open to nontraditional career paths. I've known plenty of people to get into it later in life and came from a variety of backgrounds without a problem. Most people probably never find out that they had a prior career. At an internship I lived with a fellow intern that was 12 years older than me (I was also a bit older compared to most of the interns since I was a PhD student). Everyone seemed to treat him the same and he got a full-time offer. I don't think the others ever realized he had 10 years experience and a degree in something completely different!
walshemj 8y ago
A few years ago mainly to keep the DHSS happy when claiming Job Seekers Allowance I applied for an apprenticeship with HMGCC. My idea was that some one might see my atypical CV and think outside the box about hiring.

twoquestions 8y ago

How does this fare in cultures where there are no second chances, like many places in the US? My gut says this is a scam.

owlninja 8y ago
What exactly are you referring to?
- twoquestions 8y ago
  Going to college after the appointed time, that is right after high school. If someone does so and makes it work, that's wonderful, but at least around here I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not experience, especially with legions of twentysomethings beating down the doors begging for a job before the rent savings run out.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not experience But why would they care if two people have the same experience but one is older? What difference does it make that they wouldn't tolerate?
    - twoquestions 8y ago
      From what I've read here on HN (and other places), even with experience, ageist bigotry is a significant impact on people's careers, I can only imagine it's worse sans experience.
      - athenot 8y ago
        On the bright side, those are probably the companies you don't want to work for. It is one of the signals for bad company culture.
      - jm__87 8y ago

chrisseaton 8y ago

I went back to university as an adult with a mortgage, wife, daughter on the way, and I did an internship. Nobody seemed to particularly notice or care that I was older and I'm not sure it changed anything.

throwaway427 8y ago
How old were you when you did it?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  26, so not a lot older in years, but at a very different point in my life - settled with wife, mortgage etc, which makes a big difference I think.
ProAm 8y ago
What did you go back for degree wise?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  PhD computer science.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    What did you do before? Was it a total career change, or just getting MS/PHD in same field? Also did you name on of your kids null?
vba 8y ago
where abouts/uni? did you need to relocate? did your wife/funding get you enough to cover mortgage?

theparanoid 8y ago

I'm switching careers from tech to nursing. Being older--mid-thirties--hasn't been an issue. It helps that healthcare has less of an age bias than computing.

rwbt 8y ago
Interesting. Do you mind telling us what made you choose nursing over tech?
- theparanoid 8y ago
  Everybody at my old company was laid after 50, flexible hours: full-time, part-time, on-call, and working 40 hours a week in a cubicle gets really old.
  - fma 8y ago
    I'm 35...I've too considered nursing or PA for the same reason. I know I'm "young" but the writing is on the wall for the age bias. Nursing/PA is decent pay, always work opportunities, can't get outsourced (easily). You also don't have BS job interviews. If you have updated certifications and aren't an ass... Hired! You also get continuation education too! I also like that it's hourly. The hospital needs you for OT? More money. As you get older and have more money, less expenses you can choose to work less and enjoy free time. Unless you are freelance or consulting, software doesn't have that flexibility. Maybe in a few years...
  - BeetleB 8y ago
    >flexible hours: full-time, part-time, on-call, and working 40 hours a week in a cubicle gets really old. Counterpoints (if in the US): Capitalism is a real thing. If you work in a hospital you will be pushed to the point where things are unsafe for the patient, and if something goes wrong, you will be blamed and lose your license. A culture exists where everyone tries to cover their ass. If you work as a contractor (i.e. you work for a firm that sends you to different hospitals based on shortages), you will be the first person to be blamed. Unlike in tech, seniority is the main way to get better salaries and benefits. You won't get too far by performing really well. The attitudes and behavior of fellow coworkers (nurses and nurse assistants) would be considered quite unprofessional in a typical engineering workplace. Depending on which unit you work, patients can be horrible. You'll get all kinds of attitudes. Psychopaths, etc. If you stick to it, expect long term injuries: https://www.npr.org/series/385540559/injured-nurses https://www.npr.org/series/385540559/injured-nurses "James Collins, a research manager in the NIOSH Division of Safety Research, says before studying back injuries among nursing employees, he focused on auto factory workers. His subjects were "93 percent men, heavily tattooed, macho workforce, Harley-Davidson rider type guys," he says. "And they were prohibited from lifting over 35 pounds through the course of their work." Nursing employees in a typical hospital lift far heavier patients a dozen or more times every day. "That was my biggest shock and surprise," Collins says. "And the big deal is, the injuries are so severe that for many people, they're career-ending."" (Experience will vary with what type of nursing you work - some nursing is a lot milder - but pays less).

ddoolin 8y ago

I really want to go back to finish school. I'm 28 and dropped out at the end of my 3rd year with 97 credits because I had a baby on the way in another country. I've been working as a software engineer ever since. I did try one semester at a CC shortly after but my job was too demanding on top of parenting a wee lad and I took a slate of all Fs, sadly, since I missed the withdrawal date. Now I have the time, funds, and motivation to return and do well (I hope) but fear my sliding grades towards the end would put a nail in the coffin of going to decent university near me (Southern California). I think my real-world experience would help me a lot here, particularly if I applied to a CS program, but I'm not sure. I will speak to admissions counseling soon to get their feedback, but if anyone here has similar experience, I'd love to hear about it.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
If you've got a solid software resume under you already, I'm not sure a CS degree will open any new doors for you, or teach you much that you haven't already learned. Most employers (that you'd want to work for) only care about a degree if you don't have work experience.
- ddoolin 8y ago
  Yes, that's true to some extent, though my primary goal is not to open new doors necessarily. It certainly would strengthen my position when applying for certain spots, but really I want to fill in the deep gaps in my knowledge in certain areas in CS/Mathematics and explore entirely new ones as well. This isn't a decision I'd take lightly either way, given the cost.
sjg007 8y ago
Your application essay is probably where you would talk about why you want the opportunity to finish your degree and what benefit you will bring to the institution. Highlighting appropriate adult behaviors like "taking responsibility" for you child etc... Your real world experience will definitely help you.
- 8y ago

gojomo 8y ago

I'm looking forward to someone writing "It's Always Too Early". It'd be a guide for people of all ages to acquire the same education/network/skills as college purportedly offers, without the immense monetary and opportunity costs of the legacy university system.

jshowa3 8y ago
Problem is many companies work off this legacy system and won't hire you without a degree. No engineering degree, no law degree, no doctor degree, no degree at all? No thanks. Of course I'm not saying there are other ways, but its very naive to think that you can get anywhere without one. Not only that, the "legacy university system" is a system that's big on research and has invented things like the very Internet you used to type this comment. Autonomous vehicles were an early university project funded by DARPA before they even reached the mainstream public. In fact, most modern products are the result of university research. Its not so much the university as it is the cost of university.
- gojomo 8y ago
  Sure, but many of the best companies are deemphasizing traditional credentials, commensurate with the bloating of the the university system and the rise of other training/evaluation methods. With student debts and the rise of alternative tracks, we may be very close to a rapid tipping point, where the apparent safety of the traditional credentials – with stodgier institutions – collapses quickly. And, the university system of 2019 isn't quite the same thing as the university system that gave us "the very Internet… used to type this comment" and other advances. It's a several-generations-removed descendant, with much higher costs, larger bureaucracy, more bundled tangential "lifestyle" services, heavier political loads, and so forth. That some legacy university research has historically generated societal dividends isn't necessarily relevant to a prospective undergrad in 2019. That's especially so for those struggling with the kinds of questions addressed by the 'Never Too Late' book, like "What do I do if it's been ages since I took algebra?" They need efficient instruction. The fact that groundbreaking grant-funded research by graduate students might be happening in a nearby building is about as relevant as their school's football ranking in the Top-25 polls.

porphyrogene 8y ago

It is never too late for education. It is always too early for crippling debt that exceeds your proven earning potential. None of this advice touches on the lost principle of not putting one's future on layaway. Student load debt forgiveness is a death sentence for American politicians yet there are millions of us waiting for a miracle.

ZhuanXia 8y ago
Even the ability to declare bankruptcy would be nice. Millions are in a state of what amounts to indenture.
- qubex 8y ago
  I don’t mean to be contentious here, but the reason for which student debt cannot be discharged by bankruptcy is pretty sound: it’s because education (theoretically) adds warning power to an individual and cannot be liquidated. (I’m not a lawyer and am not an American either.)
  - jgamman 8y ago
    IIRC this was a policy decision change only 20 odd years ago. (also, not a lawyer or USAan)
    - zackmorris 8y ago
      You're correct, the George W. Bush administration banned student loans from bankruptcy in 2005: https://bostonstudentloanlawyer.com/discharging-student-loans-in-bankruptcy-almost-but-not-quite-impossible/ https://bostonstudentloanlawyer.com/discharging-student-loan... But you'll notice that it wasn't really talked about at the time in mainstream news (however, I knew about it as a progressive): https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+student+loan+bankruptcy+2005 https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+student+loan+b... For example, "student" is not mentioned on this page: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7575010/ns/business-personal_finance/t/bush-signs-tougher-bankruptcy-bill-law/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7575010/ns/business-personal_finan... So many young people today think that this is how it always was, and don't realize that it's nonsense. Originally meant to decrease the deficit or whatnot, but having the opposite effect of raising the deficit as the US has become more uneducated and susceptible to ignorance. Unfortunately a lot of other draconian legislation was passed at that time - see the DMCA, etc. Now that the truth is coming out though, there's hope that some of this can get reversed after 2020 if enough people learn about the true history of controversial issues like these.

dawhizkid 8y ago

What is the consensus on coding schools in 2019? I'm looking at app academy and lambda school.

barry-cotter 8y ago
https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?s=21 https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?... There are multiple companies whose engineering headcount growth YOY is bigger than the total number of annual CS + bootcamp grads in the US. Yes, there are a lot more engineers coming on board now. But the growth in demand is mind-boggling. https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21 In case you were wondering whether the engineering hiring market was slowing down, here’s Amazon deploying probably every YC company combined on one product: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-over-10-000-employees-working-on-alexa-echo-1542138284 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-over-10-000-...

nkot 8y ago

What are the chances of attending Harvard / Stanford later in life? I have a life goal of going there but the older I get (24 now), the less I believe it can form into a reality.

currymj 8y ago
If you can come up with a compelling story and a reason (other than bragging rights), and can prove you have academic skills, you will have a shot. The goal is to convince the admissions committee who are just a few people, so you want to try and form a mental model of how they think. But why those two? Even if you are solely focused on prestige in the most superficial sense, there are at least a few more comparable US universities. You could increase your number of options by 5x or 10x even being very picky.
btowngar 8y ago
Undergraduate or graduate? I began my Stanford PhD as a 27 year old, after spending a number of years in the workforce. It's not at all unusual for grad students to be in their mid to late twenties.
- donaldknuth123 8y ago
  Particularly at Stanford with SCPD, it can be something of a backdoor to a Stanford Engineering Graduate degree. http://scpd.stanford.edu/search/publicCourseCertificateSearch.do?method=searchCert&courseSearch.courseDescriptionKeyword=&courseSearch.certificateStringArray=MS+Degree&buttonSearch=Search http://scpd.stanford.edu/search/publicCourseCertificateSearc...
stale2002 8y ago
Attending Harvard is actually quite easy. They offer classes, both online and onsite, for anyone who is willing to pay tuition. These classes are offered under a program called "Harvard Extension School", and they are the same exact classes that students who got accepted the "normal" way, take. It even gets you a degree. If what you care about is the education and resources offered by Harvard, they are available for the taking, and they are the same exact classes offered to "regular" students.

dver 8y ago

Mid 50's here. As my kids are hitting college age I'm starting to get the itch to go back and complete my degree. My company has a facility near Cal Poly, where I went, and I drive by on my way in and out of town when I go onsite. Really don't know what to expect, figure I'll just wander on campus and stop by the admin building and see what they have to say. I'll bring my old student ID with me, just in case.

52-6F-62 8y ago
I'm a fair bit younger than yourself, but I did that recently at U of Toronto. So I don't know if this anecdote helps, but I've been out of school for a few years now since I last attended— I had to set an appointment with an administrator/registrar who wanted to discuss what I've been doing (work history, bit of life history—but these were more for their understanding than formally required), but ultimately the process for me, should I decide to move forward was: * re-register (a quick form and small fee) * the usual rigamarole— get my new student ID, register for courses when available, and carry on. It was remarkably simpler than I thought it would be—even with the potential for switching programs and internal schools altogether.
abecedarius 8y ago
In my experience you can just show up the first day and ask the prof if they mind you auditing the course. There might be password-locked online materials these days, however. I've thought about going back to finish the degree, but it's hard to see it as worth $60k/year.
- dver 8y ago
  Agree, I'll have a value point to balance as well. I don't expect it to have any net effect on my career at this point, hope there is some worthwhile learning though.

danablast 8y ago

It's never too late to get into debt.

two2two 8y ago

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way: - community college have great professors - community college treats you like the adult you are - community college is underrated - university treats you like a child - university professors are more selfish and self-serving - university is busy dealing with so much extra-curricular stuff that most adults don't care about, it makes you question your decision - Different "schools" within the university do things differently - as an adult, it sucks to work in groups with young students - I picked up way more knowledge in the "real world" than I realized as a lot of what is being taught is redundant - there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ At the onset of this journey, I was enthusiastic to learn, but along the way I've been beat down to just wanting to get "the piece of paper" and be done. It's been a long three years and each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. I don't think anyone needs a degree anymore to get to where they're going. However, it does make it easier depending on one's path.

whatshisface 8y ago
>there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ Could you provide some more details about the community college curriculum you are talking about? To my knowledge, the local community colleges offer what is essentially the first two years of a university education, with a reduced emphasis on your actual major. >each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. This means that you are not taking advantage of the resources available to you. Typically, the advice to people with energy left over after classes is that they should contact the labs at their institution and become miniature grad students. You also should try to register for graduate level courses, talking to whoever is in charge at your institution if necessary. Universities offer many avenues for gifted students that want to do more work than everybody else, and I would say that fact is the main thing that separates them from community colleges.

lkrubner 8y ago

Recently on Hacker News there was a top voted article in which the economist Nassim Nicolas Taleb made the point that a lot of small bets have a higher expected value than one very large bet. But the argument has interesting implications for education. The same reasoning implies that 4 degrees of 1 year should have more payoff to society than 1 degree of 4 years. Likewise, society would benefit more if you got 12 degrees of 3 months each. I wrote more about this here: http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-taleb-accidentally-argues-against-4-year-school-degrees http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-taleb...

ggm 8y ago
Taleb's insight applies where there is no linkage between bets. The problem is, a 4 year degree "if done right" is building on a body of knowledge. you can't "do" year 4 without the core competencies in years 1,2 and 3. So, (and I admit I didn't read your article) I ask if you address the neccessary linkage problem. Because a chain of 4 small bets is what we call a quinella or trifecta, and in betting circles its high payoff, but low likelihood: It may be better to commit to the whole big package than assume you can bite of chunks and always get the same value. A midpoint model, is to do 1 or 2 years, get a low degree, then do 2 or 3 more and specialize for a high degree.
- lkrubner 8y ago
  You miss the point that Taleb is making. His point is something like “Rather than one big bet in biology, what about a small bet in biology, a small bet in physics, a small bet in chemistry.” Likewise, in education, instead of spending 4 years learning one thing, what about spending one year learning one thing, another year learning something else, another year learning something else, another year learning something else, and so on. Smaller, more diverse bets. The argument is especially strong for young people at the start of their career, as the risk of being overcommitted to the wrong thing is strong.

gumby 8y ago

When I was an undergrad there was a 35-year-old real estate developer living in my dorm. He had decided he'd like to have a degree and enrolled at MIT. I wish I had understood what it must have been like for him since there was nobody else in the building under 25. I know he had a sense of humor as I saw him once bring a date (around his age) back to his room. But though we talked a bit I couldn't really comprehend what someone twice my age thought about being a student...and now I'm 17 years older than he was at the time I'd be fascinated to know.

wpdev_63 8y ago

I don't understand why anyone would consider going back to college when there's very legitimate online course options that cost a fraction. Look through edx.org and see for yourself. Remember there's no guarantee that going back to school will net you the job you want but it's a guarantee that you will go into crippling debt that will follow you for the rest of your life. Unless of course your company is paying for you to go back to school then why not.

gowld 8y ago
Where are the lab classes in edx? Where are the vocational courses in edx? Where are the teaching assistants and the study groups? Where are the 12+ course bachelors-degree curricula?
- devgutt 8y ago
  it seems a startup in the need.
- wpdev_63 8y ago
  Imagine the person smart enough to substitute each of those things with something freely available. Just imagine.
analog31 8y ago
Some people can do it, others can't. I would have had a very hard time coming up with the amount of sustained motivation needed to learn my college subjects on my own. I ended up majoring in subjects where the classroom setting was beneficial to me. I have also taught myself a variety of other subjects, so it varies from subject to subject for me. The daughter of one of my friends had a baby at age 16, was allowed to graduate from high school early (i.e., kicked out), and got an online degree from a good university. She said the hardest part was the sheer boredom, sitting at home in front of a computer all day.

generallee5686 8y ago

I have a pessimistic view of all this. If you are able to get into a college program easily, the job market will be shit once you get out. If the job market would be great, you'll never get into a program. Colleges have stupid games based on a point system to get in. The games are HEAVILY biased towards people just out of high school. You only get points for shit like having taken classes at the school before or your parents being alumni. Having real world working experience doesn't give you any points. My wife was thinking about going to nursing school. In order for her to do that she would need to quit her job take random classes for the _chance_ to eventually get into a program. We're ready to pay cash for the program which she would certainly succeed in, but there is just no chance. Was a real bummer once we realized this. I guess this all makes sense, just frustrating.

rwhitman 8y ago

I've been curious if there are any creative financial or work/education balance strategies for a tech professional going back to school, that might not be obvious? Networking with professors? Working at the university? Or finding an employer that subsidizes grad school? Haven't seen too much on my radar in this area but have heard there are unconventional ways to offset the cost or level up by leveraging my network & career. (For context - I'm in my late 30's, ~17 years in tech though my degree is from a trade art school, and in an engineering management role these days in Los Angeles. I've been seriously considering grad school either for CS or MBA.)

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

"It's never too late" Well I would agree, but since the UK adopted the US model of university funding, it's too late, and has been for some time. I'd love to career change into something different. £27k of tuition fees and three years not earning makes it a £150k+ proposition. No matter how bored I've become with tech after 30 years that's a big ask. Open University charges the same fees now or that would have been an easy and obvious route. Just as it was for my aunt who did a OU degree in her seventies "for fun". From what I hear from the kids university isn't as appealing either as they've become ever more commercial. Friends who are in lower paying careers are even more stuck. The push to get 50% of the population with a degree means even the most lowly jobs and careers often now require a degree. I guess when I become too much the curmudgeonly old git I'll take early retirement and do some part time gardening, handyman or some such. Shame for the govt about the tax I won't be paying. :)

alexgmcm 8y ago
Yeah - access to education needs to improve. Especially as technology means a lot of lectures could be given online with just needing to sit exams, do labs (for certain subjects) etc. Honestly Corbyn's idea of the National Education Service (i.e. access to education from cradle to grave) would easily win my vote if it wasn't for his Brexit support...
a-saleh 8y ago
You could try some of the lesser known universities in Europe, a.f.a.i.k tuition is around 1k to 3k eur per semester (i.e. my IT faculty in Brno, CZK has 3k Eur per academic year). I finished my masters here, I consider the education quality reasonably good (hey, I even helped my theis advisor to publish a paper :) and I worked part-time for most of the time. Friend of mine just finished his BCs, while supporting his partners a family and working part-time.

jeena 8y ago

Because of how the German school system is build (Hauptschule, Realschule, Gymnasium) and me migrating to Germany at 11 years of age without the knowledge of the German language, I had to do it differently and attend something like Gymnasium as an adult after my first vocational training (to become a heating engineer) and because of life happening and me once again migrating to another country (Sweden) without the knowledge of the language, I started university when I was 30. Everyone else was about 20, partying and drinking, and I was studying 100% and working 50%. It was kind of hard and I'm about 10 years late with my life (compared to everyone else at work) but I finally feel that I am doing something which is challenging and fun at work and I earn a lot more than before. The only bad thing is the biological clock not stopping to match everything else ^^.

znpy 8y ago
Keep going! Good luck!
171243 8y ago
Yeah but what you gained from that experience is beyond measure. I assume you're bi or tri-lingual now?
- jeena 8y ago
  Four-lungual, I needed to learn English too.

BuckRogers 8y ago

There's a problem with society, in the west, but I'll speak to the US specifically. My wife just received her Masters degree. Her and I have family that act as if life is hopeless. All ages. We tell them, "the schools aren't closed". The wishing upon a star has to stop with people. Take action. It's a culture in decline, and seeing how the school system directs my wife to not instill discipline in children, combined with the intrinsic low-wage push from capitalism without unions or worker's cooperatives, the entire US workforce will be eaten alive by the Indians and Chinese. It's almost guaranteed to continue, and has already happened. A quick example on that, her school system (one of the largest in the nation) instructs her to let the kids who don't want to listen to a book to roll around, yell, play. Then she's to pull them aside later on and teach them one-on-one, while the rest are napping. That's not only disruptive, but it's not feasible. I think this culture change (it was not this way when I was in elementary in the 1980s), has doomed generations to wandering around the streets aimlessly. Possibly using drugs as so many are today, as immigrants come in and completely obliterate them from the job market. I'm not an immigrant but I say, let the strong survive and weaker cultures, like ours is becoming, collapse into mediocrity. The lucky ones who get the opportunity to turn it around later in life will be looking at "the guide for adults going to college" today, 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 50 years from now. My wife and I believe that you can't really learn without a baseline of discipline. There's enough distractions as it is and bad families to fight against. Kids need guidance. They don't actually know anything. The people who let their kid choose a hamburger vs hot dog vs grilled cheese for 15 minutes in a fast food joint? That's a small example of the problem. A child doesn't know what he's even picking, or what he even likes. You give him something, you very strongly encourage him finish his food, and next time he may have a better idea on what he wants. That's a long-lost art of parenting in the west. Everyone treats children like they're 35 years old. Unless it's about going outside and playing, where they could truly learn about choices and consequences. Second point, on the the "formal education is obsolete" crowd. I needed a bachelors degree and truly enjoyed the directed-learning experience, otherwise I'm self-taught. People like to say they're all self-taught, but people who also do school, do both. There's not additional real-world experience that you gleam because you don't go to school. It's nice to get evidence for your learning as well (a degree) and directed-learning is incredibly valuable, you're exposed to things that the vast majority won't expose themselves to otherwise. People who call for the end of traditional education because Youtube or websites exist are just wishing upon a star that things get easier. Further on formal education, community college is amazing. I also have an Associate of Applied Science degree. In fact, if I were to do it all over again, I would likely pick electrician/HVAC/plumbing/welding for my AA/AS and get a BA in Education or BS in CompSci, to really cover being employable. I've spent a lifetime programming, and truly benefited from some online sources as well, especially Pluralsight, though most instructors there are well-vetted professionals, many authors there are not the best in designing coursework. Purposefully checking into algorithms and some of the math behind it all was also helpful. That's where lack of an education background causes one to fall apart, people online do not know about how to educate, and you don't know what you don't know to even look into, and why traditional directed education is as relevant as ever. A third thing people miss, if you care about the best learning experience. Many people seek a degree to get a job, it doesn't earn you a job or even make you employable, it earns you credibility. I wouldn't go to school unless you have a thirst for learning, because to put it to work in a beyond mediocre fashion, will require continuous learning.

andyv 8y ago

When I was a graduate teaching assistant at a 4-year university, the re-entry students never failed to impress me. They were the most determined students I had. They weren't afraid to confront me when I made a mistake, and I made a few.

filmgirlcw 8y ago

I think about going back for my MBA sometimes (slightly different from the article, but still similar in other ways), but I'm at the mid point in my career and I'm not convinced the money and time I spend going back would actually help me further my career more than building connections and actually doing the work. Senior managers I've talked to have agreed with my assessment. At best, an MBA would get me back to where I've already managed to get myself, but with maybe more attention for certain recruiters. I'm a big fan of anyone wanting to further their education for whatever the reason -- and I do wish I could sometimes just study really interesting subjects again -- but for a lot of working professionals, I sometimes wonder if the degree will really matter? Obviously, some professions are different than others and really do require a certain degree to even get in the door (medicine, law, sciences), but by the time I was 34, I'd managed to successfully build two careers in different disciplines, and neither was the focus of my degree. (And I took forever to graduate.) Every person and situation is different so I don't want to pretend my experiences are prescriptive for anyone else -- but what I value about my undergrad experience is much less "what I learned" and the experiences I had growing up, having time to explore things I care about, etc. Frankly, I wish there was a collegiate equivalent of a GED that would cover undergrad required classes like a science, a math class, english lit, history, etc. Make people take the actual degree classes, but allow people to test out of all the basic requirements (I realize CLEP allows for some of this but CLEP isn't accepted everywhere and there can be CLEP caps for credits). I feel like for a lot of adult learners, this would greatly reduce the mental challenge of "going back." What I wish this had touched on more is the pervasive and predatory nature of for-profit colleges and universities. I'm all for anyone going back to school, but it makes me sick when people pay tens of thousands of dollars for bad programs from fro-profit places that have a very small chance at even helping them get a better job.

pie_hacker 8y ago

I believe the title is slightly misleading; most college students are above 18 and are thus widely considered to be adults. This guide seems to be written for adults who are 25 and older, which is a subset of all adults.

gnulinux 8y ago

I want to go back to school. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so even though I have a Bachelor's in CS, I still feel half-baked. I studied CS only because I freaking love it and learning more is my utter passion. I want to have a graduate degree in CS... but how? I have a job, I have other stuff to do now, and taking an almost decade investment sounds way too much (in US PhDs can take very long). I'm a very socially awkward dude and spending my entire 20s in PhD almost seems socially "risky". Did someone else have experience on this matter? I have otherwise have the funds and passion to pursue this.

pure_ambition 8y ago
Follow your inner voice. Sounds like it’s telling you to look seriously at grad school. Most people I find will tell you to not do it, but I say go for it. Don’t worry about the social risk; it’s just because you’re outside of the academic sphere right now.
171243 8y ago
Georgia Tech's Online Masters of Computer Science. 100% online and same degree you get from the on campus program which happens to be a top 10 in the nation. There is no research track unfortunately which means it is a terminal masters program.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  What is "terminal masters program"? Does it mean I won't be able to have a research track in the future even if I wanted?
- opportune 8y ago
  Not sure where you're getting that a non-thesis masters program is "terminal". You can still go somewhere to get a PhD with a non-research master's degree, not even necessarily somewhere "bad". If anything the fact that the degree is online would hurt you more than the fact that there was no thesis

zoom6628 8y ago

Shout out to massey.ac.nz which is one of the very first universities world wide to have serious 'extra mural' programme. They have decades of experience and everything is tuned for the working adult. For anybody in any country should seriously consider. They have extramural students from all over the world because you get world class staff, from a world class university, at NZ prices. Anybody in US should seriously consider it an option for higher learning. FYT i did a post graduate Diploma in QUality Assurance with specialty in software engineering through Massey with course work done 1993-95 and finally delivered my project in 1997 after changing countries and jobs. Cant praise them enough.

danellis 8y ago

I've often wondered, is there a way to get a reputable CS degree that leverages a couple of decades of work experience to make the process shorter? The article says so in the general case, but what about specifically for CS?

sys_64738 8y ago

There's a pivot point for when going to college doesn't have the ROI, IMO. I got a CS degree at 22 and did an MBA in my 30s. When I did a law degree in my late 30s I quickly realized it wasn't worth it unless I was doing it for the pure academic PoV. But I wanted a law degree to practice law but decided that it wasn't worth it in my case. I was almost 40. FWIW, I also discovered there are two types of law degree. A Harvard law degree and a non-Harvard law degree. It was quite an eye opener that one.

somberi 8y ago

I am hoping to hear suggestions or real-life experience of anyone who has gone back to do their Phd after turning 50. My wife and I, both professionally and financially settled, are looking to stop working at 50, and take up something close to our hearts, which will be our _second_ 20-year innings. We would like to start that innings with doing a Phd in that field. We both have Masters and an MBA in our respective fields. The next innings will be based on our current experience (30+ years) and our education, but hoping to apply it in a macro, policy framework, for which will go back to study.

lsc 8y ago

"The other important thing to do is to help adults identify why they want to go back to school. If you can identify what it is that's motivating you, then that can be your rallying cry when you're starting to feel discouraged or anxious about starting school." Lol. So I've been reading stuff about our ideas of free will; most recently David Orr's book on Frost; but the quote above really sounds like they're suggesting we decide to do something and then need to "identify what it is that's motivating you" I.E. to rationalize it. I'm not saying they're wrong, it's just a funny way to put it.

madiathomas 8y ago

I dropped out in 2004 to start a job as a Programmer. I was broke and needed some cash. I was left with 4 subjects to complete Computer Systems Engineering qualification. Which is 60% IT and 40% Electrical Engineering. I decided to enroll for an IT qualification in 2015 at the age of 33. Best decision I have ever taken. I graduated last year September at the age of 36 and I am no longer considered an IT dropout or self-taught Programmer. Reason I decided to go back to school was because I was always considered a self-taught Programmer, even though I was taught programming in a formal qualification which I didn't finish. The fact that I finished all programming related modules and was only left with 3-4 Electrical Engineering related modules, didn't help. Studying when you are older is easier because you are doing it with a purpose. Plus when you are older, you spend more time at home and party less. Freeing more time for studying. The course I did, was heavy in programming, mobile app development and web design. Something I have been doing for over 10 years before I decided to go back to studying.

wink 8y ago

I don't get this. Sure, it's been a while since I started university (fall 2003) but is stuff really spoonfed to starter students? I'm not saying you have to deliberately make everything hard - but we got a little bit of introduction in the first week and then were sent off to cope on our own. You had the other students, older semesters and whatever else resource to solve your problem. I don't think I'd want it any other way these days (oh wow, 15 years later) or feel that anything except the first week was tailored to people fresh from school. Sure - people taking courses around their work schedule is a problem, but it's a totally different problem. Either you know it's supposed to be a fulltime course, or it's not. Also, maybe I'm a little biased for having majored in Computer Science, so mostly everything was digital or online even back then. But smartphones would make coordination with other people so much easier than email and texts... Or maybe American (live-in / campus) colleges are really that different from German universities that I simply cannot imagine the problems this book would show :P