6 ms·

These fokes devoted quite some time into thinking about your problem: https://80000hours.org/ https://80000hours.org/ From their homepage: "You have 80,000 hou

These fokes devoted quite some time into thinking about your problem: https://80000hours.org/ https://80000hours.org/ From their homepage: "You have 80,000 hours in your career. Make the right career choices, and you can help solve the world’s most pressing problems, as well as have a more rewarding, interesting life. We’re here to give you the information you need to find that fulfilling, high-impact career. Our advice is all free, tailored for talented graduates & young professionals, and based on five years of research alongside academics at Oxford." The 80000 hours podcast can be long winded but is at times also quite interesting.

atlasunshrugged 8y ago
I'll strongly second this, 80k hours and the Effective Altruism community in general isn't for everyone, but they have great data driven insights into high impact careers and really good resources to help you make decisions (and a really welcoming community). They've got a good quiz that helps direct you but I also recommend you just go through their career guide and if it speaks to you just look on FB for a local chapter and talk to the leader of it, in my experience they're quite helpful about giving you specific advice for your situation https://80000hours.org/career-planning-tool/ https://80000hours.org/career-planning-tool/
- ozgooen 8y ago
  Strongly thirded. I'm not sure I agree with absolutely everything they say, but overall I think they have a far more pragmatic and honest set of answers than any competing advice I hear. For disclosure, I worked there for a year. The EA worldview takes some getting used to though.
nnd 8y ago
My biggest issue with 80,000 hours is that it's a rational, but radically uninspiring advice in the end. It is a framework for those who buy into "don't follow your passion advice", and try to maximize their utility function instead.
- tvanantwerp 8y ago
  A fair criticism. Personally, I've spent enough time around folks who followed their passion and seen where it got them that I'm 100% on board the utility function train.
  - totololo 8y ago
    Oh how I would LOVE to know more! Can you give examples?
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      Join a startup as a soon-to-be father, following your dreams, and have the thing explode in your face, then finally recover and get a job at a megacorp (a week before the baby is due)? Utility for the win! Following your dreams is fun and all, but the risk/reward ratio is just way out there.
      - adambyrtek 8y ago
        Getting a stable job at a big company to be able to support your family after taking a risk on a startup doesn't sound like a terrible outcome to be honest.
        stefanmichael 8y ago
        Sounds optimal actually, you want to take risk when allowed and stop taking that risk immediately when your life changes.
      - pmarreck 8y ago
        So the take-home here is take all your career risks before you take on dependents?
        Aeolun 8y ago
        Yes, but probably not while your wife is pregnant.
yboris 8y ago
Before 80,000 Hours started, there was Giving What We Can - which gave me meaning in my life. It reminded me of how incredibly fortunate I am to be where I am: earning even $50k/year puts me in the richest 2% of the world! https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/ https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/ This means giving 10% of my income to cost-effective charities that help other individuals is entirely within my means. Over the years, within the Effective Altruism (EA) community I have met amazing people - devoting their lives to solving important, neglected problems, people who give 50% of their income to help others, and more. I'm consistently inspired by them to do more - and it makes life a thrill.
- DenisM 8y ago
  On a tangent, but did you bond with any of them?
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  Can you share some blogs, names etc of the amazing people?
  - bkcreate 8y ago
    I recently watched a TED talk by Peter Singer that went into Effective Altruism pretty well
- kaskavalci 8y ago
  Sheer amount you make means nothing as your expenses may also be higher. If you live where you are the 2% while making 50k then you would feel it. Otherwise it's dry statistics.
soneca 8y ago
I occasionally checked on them in the beginning when they were focusing on trying to find their problem to solve. But it was very anti-climax and frustrating for me when they announced that their problem was to help other people find their problem. Too... comfortable solution I guess, I don't know. Not judging their choice here, just stating that as an expectator, from an entertainment point of view, it was frustrating.
kiliantics 8y ago
I've been following them for a few years and, while I think there are some good ideas, I find them ultimately too unwilling to part with the status quo. I think real change in our society will require more drastic efforts that don't follow normal college-educated career trajectories. This is something I care quite deeply about so it is the "problem I decided to solve", as OP puts it. I think what we do in professional life will most likely not involve solving meaningful problems, since most industry is not focused on such things (and can't, because it is often the cause). For me, I try to work on political and especially labour issues outside of work, since that seems to me to be the most likely way to achieve significant improvements in society. The fact that 80000 hours has seemingly never discussed ideas involving labour unions or grassroots political activism but rather focuses on think tanks and other elitist top-down approaches is pretty telling of their neoliberal bent.
- jellyksong 8y ago
  Their career guide does specifically discuss social impact outside of your job, in terms of advocacy (what you've described), support roles, and donations.
- solveit 8y ago
  Grassroots activism is great, but I think it's pretty clear that a single person at an elite think tank is more impactful than a single grassroot. Now, if you think you can pull a Nelson Mandela, go for the activist approach, but most people can't, and 80,000 hours is in the business of giving advice to maximize expected utility.
  - kiliantics 8y ago
    The problem is that the single person's hands are tied because of their position. You can't influence the government from a think tank if you're suggesting prison abolition, banning cars from Manhattan, or even just massive social housing projects. Those think tanks would never get funded or get the time of day in government. Some things really need people power from below.
uwbassist 8y ago
I like 80,000 hours a lot, but I think it should be balanced with Yudkowski's advice to "Purchase Fuzzies and Utilons Separately" https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-fuzzies-and-utilons-separately https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-f... Be honest with yourself, balance your desire to do good (utilons) with your need as a human to feel good and recharge your altruism batteries by feeling connected to your good work.

atlasunshrugged 8y ago

I'll strongly second this, 80k hours and the Effective Altruism community in general isn't for everyone, but they have great data driven insights into high impact careers and really good resources to help you make decisions (and a really welcoming community). They've got a good quiz that helps direct you but I also recommend you just go through their career guide and if it speaks to you just look on FB for a local chapter and talk to the leader of it, in my experience they're quite helpful about giving you specific advice for your situation https://80000hours.org/career-planning-tool/ https://80000hours.org/career-planning-tool/

ozgooen 8y ago
Strongly thirded. I'm not sure I agree with absolutely everything they say, but overall I think they have a far more pragmatic and honest set of answers than any competing advice I hear. For disclosure, I worked there for a year. The EA worldview takes some getting used to though.

nnd 8y ago

My biggest issue with 80,000 hours is that it's a rational, but radically uninspiring advice in the end. It is a framework for those who buy into "don't follow your passion advice", and try to maximize their utility function instead.

tvanantwerp 8y ago
A fair criticism. Personally, I've spent enough time around folks who followed their passion and seen where it got them that I'm 100% on board the utility function train.
- totololo 8y ago
  Oh how I would LOVE to know more! Can you give examples?
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Join a startup as a soon-to-be father, following your dreams, and have the thing explode in your face, then finally recover and get a job at a megacorp (a week before the baby is due)? Utility for the win! Following your dreams is fun and all, but the risk/reward ratio is just way out there.
    - adambyrtek 8y ago
      Getting a stable job at a big company to be able to support your family after taking a risk on a startup doesn't sound like a terrible outcome to be honest.
      - stefanmichael 8y ago
        Sounds optimal actually, you want to take risk when allowed and stop taking that risk immediately when your life changes.
    - pmarreck 8y ago
      So the take-home here is take all your career risks before you take on dependents?
      - Aeolun 8y ago
        Yes, but probably not while your wife is pregnant.

yboris 8y ago

Before 80,000 Hours started, there was Giving What We Can - which gave me meaning in my life. It reminded me of how incredibly fortunate I am to be where I am: earning even $50k/year puts me in the richest 2% of the world! https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/ https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/ This means giving 10% of my income to cost-effective charities that help other individuals is entirely within my means. Over the years, within the Effective Altruism (EA) community I have met amazing people - devoting their lives to solving important, neglected problems, people who give 50% of their income to help others, and more. I'm consistently inspired by them to do more - and it makes life a thrill.

DenisM 8y ago
On a tangent, but did you bond with any of them?
justaguyhere 8y ago
Can you share some blogs, names etc of the amazing people?
- bkcreate 8y ago
  I recently watched a TED talk by Peter Singer that went into Effective Altruism pretty well
kaskavalci 8y ago
Sheer amount you make means nothing as your expenses may also be higher. If you live where you are the 2% while making 50k then you would feel it. Otherwise it's dry statistics.

soneca 8y ago

I occasionally checked on them in the beginning when they were focusing on trying to find their problem to solve. But it was very anti-climax and frustrating for me when they announced that their problem was to help other people find their problem. Too... comfortable solution I guess, I don't know. Not judging their choice here, just stating that as an expectator, from an entertainment point of view, it was frustrating.

kiliantics 8y ago

I've been following them for a few years and, while I think there are some good ideas, I find them ultimately too unwilling to part with the status quo. I think real change in our society will require more drastic efforts that don't follow normal college-educated career trajectories. This is something I care quite deeply about so it is the "problem I decided to solve", as OP puts it. I think what we do in professional life will most likely not involve solving meaningful problems, since most industry is not focused on such things (and can't, because it is often the cause). For me, I try to work on political and especially labour issues outside of work, since that seems to me to be the most likely way to achieve significant improvements in society. The fact that 80000 hours has seemingly never discussed ideas involving labour unions or grassroots political activism but rather focuses on think tanks and other elitist top-down approaches is pretty telling of their neoliberal bent.

jellyksong 8y ago
Their career guide does specifically discuss social impact outside of your job, in terms of advocacy (what you've described), support roles, and donations.
solveit 8y ago
Grassroots activism is great, but I think it's pretty clear that a single person at an elite think tank is more impactful than a single grassroot. Now, if you think you can pull a Nelson Mandela, go for the activist approach, but most people can't, and 80,000 hours is in the business of giving advice to maximize expected utility.
- kiliantics 8y ago
  The problem is that the single person's hands are tied because of their position. You can't influence the government from a think tank if you're suggesting prison abolition, banning cars from Manhattan, or even just massive social housing projects. Those think tanks would never get funded or get the time of day in government. Some things really need people power from below.

uwbassist 8y ago

I like 80,000 hours a lot, but I think it should be balanced with Yudkowski's advice to "Purchase Fuzzies and Utilons Separately" https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-fuzzies-and-utilons-separately https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-f... Be honest with yourself, balance your desire to do good (utilons) with your need as a human to feel good and recharge your altruism batteries by feeling connected to your good work.