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Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-o

Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... I guess I understand it is a hard problem to calculate, but it is an area where I wish the approach was more reasoned and less governed by fad and hype. Sure clean and prevent straws and cigarette butts if that’s really a problem, but divvy our resources in proportion to where data says the issues are...

alistairSH 8y ago
The Asian rivers was something I learned fairly recently. It wasn't a big shock, but it wasn't obvious either. Do you know if the report also broke down the rivers by size and waterfront population? IE, do the communities along those Asian rivers pollute more than those in the US or EU, or are they simply the largest rivers in the world by volume and/or local population? (Yes, I know the Ganges in filthy)
- deanCommie 8y ago
  I imagine, being in China, the pollution is also an externality of the manufacturing for the entire world that Europe/US is happy to occur in China instead of locally.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Yeah, western countries can outsource all manufacturing there, lower their businesses costs, and then play holier than thou on green matters too...
    - pas 8y ago
      Severly poor communities without any wastewater treatment letting effluent into the river they live next to is the problem. It is the prime recipe for Cholera. So EU/US usually makes cleaner wastewater, but uses a lot more energy (so pollutes by CO2). Manufacturing's externalities outsourcing is of course something that should be handled by import tariffs and supply chain verification.
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      Sure, but I was asking specifically about the plastic waste and other trash, which was the original topic. Not general pollutants.
hutzlibu 8y ago
Cigarette butts are really a problem ... at least for me. They are disgusting. So even though they are not a significant source for ocean plastic, they should be avoided or cleaned.
DoctorOetker 8y ago
For any kind of pollution, the prime polluter has incentive to spread factoids pointing to significant other polluters. The comment you respond to mentions fishing nets to be the biggest pollutant by volume (which is quite logical if one thinks about it). Obviously a marine source has incentive to highlight landbased sources such as rivers. If one hears about the most polluting river one is easily confused into thinking rivers are the biggest polluter. Also note the questions surrounding metric of river pollution (i.e. per capita pollution of rivers and so on ...)
wutbrodo 8y ago
I'm probably what you'd call an environmentalist, but the movement is wrought with people who are more concerned with getting high off of self-flagellating moral outrage than fixing problems. Legislative solutions to large polluters and trash generators don't feel like penance in the same way that individual sacrifices do, so a huge chunk of people who are nominally concerned with environmental issues misallocate their complaints, wrt the actual severity of polluters. I'm not sure this is solvable, humans being what they are, and I don't think it's unique to environmental issues.
- sitkack 8y ago
  We probably need (but don’t want) algorithmic control of our actions.
  - nielsole 8y ago
    What else is a constitution?
- sigi45 8y ago
  I'm able to complain about plastic and cigarette butts in parallel.
  - wutbrodo 8y ago
    Congratulations, you should be very proud of yourself. That's quite an accomplishment. It's also a bizarrely defensive interjection, given that it has nothing to do with my comment, which was about the set of ostensible environmentalists that focus on self-flagellatory concerns at the expense of actually significant ones, a group that you're saying you're not part of.
    - fenwick67 8y ago
      Perhaps tone down your externally-flagellatoriousness if you're in agreement with somebody
thatoneuser 8y ago
God can’t they engineer some kind of filter system at the ends of those rivers?

alistairSH 8y ago

The Asian rivers was something I learned fairly recently. It wasn't a big shock, but it wasn't obvious either. Do you know if the report also broke down the rivers by size and waterfront population? IE, do the communities along those Asian rivers pollute more than those in the US or EU, or are they simply the largest rivers in the world by volume and/or local population? (Yes, I know the Ganges in filthy)

deanCommie 8y ago
I imagine, being in China, the pollution is also an externality of the manufacturing for the entire world that Europe/US is happy to occur in China instead of locally.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Yeah, western countries can outsource all manufacturing there, lower their businesses costs, and then play holier than thou on green matters too...
  - pas 8y ago
    Severly poor communities without any wastewater treatment letting effluent into the river they live next to is the problem. It is the prime recipe for Cholera. So EU/US usually makes cleaner wastewater, but uses a lot more energy (so pollutes by CO2). Manufacturing's externalities outsourcing is of course something that should be handled by import tariffs and supply chain verification.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    Sure, but I was asking specifically about the plastic waste and other trash, which was the original topic. Not general pollutants.

hutzlibu 8y ago

Cigarette butts are really a problem ... at least for me. They are disgusting. So even though they are not a significant source for ocean plastic, they should be avoided or cleaned.

DoctorOetker 8y ago

For any kind of pollution, the prime polluter has incentive to spread factoids pointing to significant other polluters. The comment you respond to mentions fishing nets to be the biggest pollutant by volume (which is quite logical if one thinks about it). Obviously a marine source has incentive to highlight landbased sources such as rivers. If one hears about the most polluting river one is easily confused into thinking rivers are the biggest polluter. Also note the questions surrounding metric of river pollution (i.e. per capita pollution of rivers and so on ...)

wutbrodo 8y ago

I'm probably what you'd call an environmentalist, but the movement is wrought with people who are more concerned with getting high off of self-flagellating moral outrage than fixing problems. Legislative solutions to large polluters and trash generators don't feel like penance in the same way that individual sacrifices do, so a huge chunk of people who are nominally concerned with environmental issues misallocate their complaints, wrt the actual severity of polluters. I'm not sure this is solvable, humans being what they are, and I don't think it's unique to environmental issues.

sitkack 8y ago
We probably need (but don’t want) algorithmic control of our actions.
- nielsole 8y ago
  What else is a constitution?
sigi45 8y ago
I'm able to complain about plastic and cigarette butts in parallel.
- wutbrodo 8y ago
  Congratulations, you should be very proud of yourself. That's quite an accomplishment. It's also a bizarrely defensive interjection, given that it has nothing to do with my comment, which was about the set of ostensible environmentalists that focus on self-flagellatory concerns at the expense of actually significant ones, a group that you're saying you're not part of.
  - fenwick67 8y ago
    Perhaps tone down your externally-flagellatoriousness if you're in agreement with somebody

thatoneuser 8y ago

God can’t they engineer some kind of filter system at the ends of those rivers?