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It only hit me in the past few months how ingrained alcohol/drinking culture is in adult lives. It’s absolutely everywhere (ads, sports events, festivals, workp

It only hit me in the past few months how ingrained alcohol/drinking culture is in adult lives. It’s absolutely everywhere (ads, sports events, festivals, workplace, nightlife, social events). It’s actually crazy how lightly we treat this addictive, toxic substance that we joke about despite how many people it kills every year and harms directly and indirectly. At some point I was unknowingly drinking 4-5 times a week and thinking that was normal or OK. I’ve mostly just stopped and will only allow myself 1-2 drinks every few months on a vacation or social event with friends.

virgilp 8y ago
Depends on the quantity I guess, but... why is drinking 4-5 times a week not ok? Something like a glass of wine or a small beer should be fine, right? In some countries (e.g. France) it's a wide-spread habit to drink a glass of wine at lunch, and it doesn't seem to harm public health.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/27/worlddispatch.france https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/27/worlddispatch.... "The findings reveal that the widespread perception of the French as a healthy nation is rapidly becoming outdated."
  - dnate 8y ago
    > "We're not proponents of complete abstinence. There probably is an amount of drinking that's OK," LoConte told NPR in June. "But from a cancer-prevention standpoint, drinking the least amount of alcohol possible would be the best strategy." I always found defending your drinking with the "a glass of wine a day is good for your heart" study a bit lame. But advocating abstinence because no level of alcohol is safe is very narrow minded as well.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Saying something is ok in moderation always defines moderation relative to the harm. This study puts moderation very low ~1-2 glasses of wine a month. Studies focused on different forms of harm have different thresholds, but you get all forms of harm not just what a specific study looks at. Saying I accept the harm for this benefit is fine, but pretending it does not exist is irrational.
      - virgilp 8y ago
        Do you have the study? Not some newspaper articles. It feels very unlikely to me that they were able to prove harm from 3 glasses a month, I'd like to read that. [edit] In the article cited in NPR, https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2818%2931310-2 https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2818... , which makes the claim "zero consumption minimises risk", you can see that ischemic heart disease & diabetes risks actually go down for 1 glass a day, while cancer & tuberculosis go slightly up. Their own chart of "relative weighted risk from all attributable causes" is flat-line for the first 1 glass/day. And that's from the paper that's cited to say "no level of alcohol consumption is safe!"
        Retric 8y ago
        We are looking at different studies. This is the meta analysis I am referring to: “Every category of drinking was associated with an increased risk of cancer.” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268874745_Alcohol_consumption_and_site-specific_cancer_risk_A_comprehensive_dose-response_meta-analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268874745_Alcohol_c... PS: The study included what it called light drinking as a cancer risk. I am less generous with terminology.
        virgilp 8y ago
        Look at the "light drinking"[] result in figure 2 - most whiskers cross the 1.0 line when it's not downright in the left-hand side! (e.g. lung cancer relative risk - if you trust that result, it means light drinking _improves_ your lung cancer prospects). They flat out state that lymphoma risk is inversely correlated with drinking. AND it's only about cancer - no word about other diseases (e.g. ischemic heart disease, where there are studies showing light wine drinking improve your odds). Overall, your meta-study hardly proves that "any quantity of alcohol is bad for your health"; quite the contrary in fact, I'd say. [] 1 glass of wine a day according to their definition.
- randomacct3847 8y ago
  New findings show there’s no such thing as a “safe amount of alcohol” https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-your-health-global-study-claims https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...
  - superpermutat0r 8y ago
    Well, the increased risks from 1 glass of wine per day is abysmal. Even 2 glasses of wine.
    - scottlocklin 8y ago
      That link (which keeps being posted in HN) a case study in terrible, absurd statistics. There's some other study recently touted that booze (and coffee) keeps old people alive longer. I have no idea if it's any more sound, but it's obvious that alcohol isn't that bad in moderation based on simple demographics.
    - scott_s 8y ago
      Yes, but that's not important takeaway. What's important is that with better, recent methodology, we're discovering that the "moderate drinking is beneficial" effect vanishes.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    Eh, so what. To a certain extent everything enjoyable about life is harmful to your health. Ice cream, pizza, cigars, staring at screens while sitting for hours at a time, playing sports..
  - diminoten 8y ago
    One study, one time. Also, studies find driving a car to be dangerous. Same with leaving your house.
- DanBC 8y ago
  You're right when you say that the quantity is important. The UK talks about "units" of alcohol. One unit is 10ml of pure alcohol. Drinks in the UK are labled with their Alcohol by Volume (ABV) percentage. To work out how many units are in a drink you multiply the serving size in litres by the ABV number. Current UK guidelines are no alcohol at all if you're pregnant, and less than 14 units a week with some days alcohol free and don't save up the units for a binge. In the past wine used to be weaker and serving sizes were smaller. One unit of wine is one glass at 125ml at 8%. In the UK by law everywhere selling glass by the wine has to offer a 125ml serving. That doesn't have to be a prominent offer though, it could be a footnote to the menu. UK serving sizes tend to be 175ml (for a small) or 250ml (for a large). This means there's huge variation in the quantity that people drink when they describe "5 glasses a week". Five glasses * 125ml * 8%ABV is 5 units. Five glasses * 175ml * 12.5%ABV is 11 units. Five glasses * 250ml *12.5%ABV is 15.5 units. 15 units a week isn't hugely worrying, but it's a big difference. I guess we'd want people drinking 15 units a week to unwind after work to take up some exercise or mindfulness instead. There's some cultural variation too. When a middle class couple in the UK talk about "a glass of wine" that could mean "half a bottle", and "a few times a week" could mean "most days". I used to work in a factory and people spoke about "going for a beer" after work, and that never meant one beer, it meant a drinking session where two or three beers are drunk.
  - koolba 8y ago
    > Five glasses x 250ml x 12.5%ABV is 15.5 units. I’ve always found it easier to visualize drink quantities relative to a standard bottle, 750ml for most wine and spirits. So that 250ml serving is 1/3 of a bottle per glass.
    - samstave 8y ago
      Yep - its pretty commonly accepted that a bottle of wine is ~3 glasses.
      - ancientworldnow 8y ago
        No it's not? A typical bottle should be about 5 glasses + or - one depending on how you pour.
- joekrill 8y ago
  I guess it depends what you define as "not ok". I mean, why is smoking 4-5 times a week not ok? Why is shooting up heroin 4-5 times a week not ok? In the end, we're simply willfully poisoning ourselves. For some reason we, as a society, have decided that it's OK to poison ourselves with certain substances (caffeine, cigarette smoke) but not others (heroin, methamphetamines). We've made this socially acceptable. So if by "ok" you mean socially acceptable, thensure, it's ok.
  - foldr 8y ago
    > caffeine There's little evidence that drinking coffee or tea is bad for you overall. In contrast, anything beyond very moderate alcohol consumption is almost certainly bad for you.
    - virgilp 8y ago
      Ingesting too large amounts of caffeine is almost certainly bad for you. It's a stimulant that increases your blood pressure and heart rate. You don't want to overdo that. It's also diuretic, if you substitute water for coffee (which some people do) it can actually lead to dehydration. But yes, I agree to your larger point that coffee is less dangerous than alcohol.
      - foldr 8y ago
        >It's a stimulant that increases your blood pressure and heart rate. Does it do that to a significant extent to regular users, though? I thought the stimulant effects mostly went away once you build up a tolerance. Similarly, there is little diuretic effect for regular coffee drinkers: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-dehydrating http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-...
        virgilp 8y ago
        Interesting, I didn't know that. As to stimulation effect for regular users... I guess it might depend, but for me, I do notice when I drink too much coffee. And I am a "regular user" - I'd say I drink around 4 espresso a day (which is not a problem, but if say I bump that up to 10, I definitely feel it)
UweSchmidt 8y ago
It used to be much more ingrained. Factory or construction workers used to drink during work, and if those old movies are to believe men would pour themselves drinks all the times. These days it is mostly acceptable to decline alcohol.
- StevePerkins 8y ago
  It's interesting that you cite factory or construction workers. I'm a first-generation college graduate, who grew up around skilled (and unskilled) labor. I've never heard of this being prevalent, even from old-timers discussing how things used to be way back when. Quitting time is one thing... but the last environment on earth in which you'd want to drink alcohol is around power tools or heavy machinery! My own first thought was "Mad Men"'s portrayal of privileged office workers in the mid-20th century. Of course, my second thought was my own office in the present day. Has this culture ever really gone away? I work for a tech startup, and there's a fully-stocked beer fridge and cocktail bar setup at all times. They're one of the first things that recruiters show off when I go on interviews to other similar companies. Every single company event, or small group outing, basically revolves around alcohol. I'm not a teetotaler, but I am a parent in my 40's who has kinda lost interest in drinking, and I'm starting to feel alienated by that part of the industry's culture. I don't want to feel like I have accept the beer you're offering me in order to fit in with a team, or give up my evening with my family to go watch you stand in a circle and get shit-faced in front of your co-workers. This is 2019, in our own industry.
  - pnutjam 8y ago
    Same here, my company has a keg on tap and they love showing it off. I've had one beer in the two years I've worked there. Just not that interested in alcohol.
  - fragmede 8y ago
    > Has this culture ever really gone away? It's possible I'm being naive as to what my coworkers are up to, but the "Man Men", 3 martini lunch culture has certainly gone away. It's fair to complain that a company's social events revolve around alcohol, but, explicitly, when people talk about "company culture" and "good fit", internal company norms around alcohol are a huge part of it. There are workplaces that are basically a continuation of college frat houses, down to the levels of sexual harassment that make Uber look hospitable. There are also workplaces where everyone goes leaves at 5pm on the dot to get home to be with their partner/kids, and the Christmas party is a potluck with very limited amounts of wine. Pick your poison. The recruiter is there to, well, recruit you, and they can't know how a given candidate feels about alcohol consumption, so if they too-gleefully show off their bar - push back! Ask how much people actually drink - there's a difference between between zero and one beer after work with coworkers (I just drink a la croix/talking rain while my coworker who does drink, drinks a beer), vs drinking liquor to excess.
matwood 8y ago
Same thing. I wouldn't say I ever had a problem with alcohol, but even 1-2 drinks here or there do not line up with my life goals. I realized that even a single drink makes me feel not quite 100% the next day, and this effect has only increased as I've gotten older. I do like beer and wine so I will have one on occasion. I found it makes them actually taste better, as I savor it now. Some other side benefits is that it saves a TON of money, and I consume less calories. Alcohol is expensive, particularly in a bar or restaurant. Less calories is obvious.
PakG1 8y ago
The unfortunate thing is how much people actually buy into it. I remember once in university, I was at a national entrepreneurship conference for student entrepreneurs. One night, there was a party at a club type of venue. I was sitting with a pretty female friend from my university when she asked me to get her water. So I went and got her a bottle of water. This jerk from another university walks up to us and incredulously asks me, "You got her water??? Here??? You got her water??? What's wrong with you???" Nerdy, socially awkward me at the time couldn't think of a comeback and I felt embarrassed that I didn't get her a beer or cocktail. But I was also really annoyed, like logically, why am I the embarrassed one here? Today's me would have a lot more confidence and some witty comebacks. :) But... part of me wonders... how much did that guy really believe what he was saying, and how much was that guy also just a scared kid inside trying to act cool and fit in due to the imagery he's been bombarded with?
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  > how much did that guy...and how much was that guy... Neither. It's a common joke used when people get water when there's a bar close by. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't have to be believed, and one does not have to be a "scared kid inside" to say it. I think you just read way too much into it, perhaps since it was your first encounter with said joke.
  - 50656E6973 8y ago
    Indeed, I've experienced this joke many times while drinking water at bars/alcohol events and I just laugh it off. On the inside I think about how much better I'm going to feel than everyone else the next day.
  - PakG1 8y ago
    I can get that, but if true, the fact that this joke is considered funny and acceptable makes parent's point about the imagery bombardment and how culturally ingrained drinking is: >> It’s actually crazy how lightly we treat this addictive, toxic substance that we joke about despite how many people it kills every year and harms directly and indirectly. As a personal aside, I find jokes that put down others to be distasteful. You don't need to denigrate to be funny. Unless the target is in on the joke. Laughing at oneself is OK. Laughing at others when the target is not laughing is not OK.
saghm 8y ago
As someone who doesn't drink alcohol (and never has), this can often be a bit overwhelming. People tend to be very surprised when I tell them that I don't drink and are very confused when I'm unable to provide a reason like religious beliefs, a medical condition, or family history of alcoholism. From my perspective, it's pretty strange that I need a reason not to besides not wanting to; nobody seems to expect that I have a reason beyond that for any other form of entertainment activity, but consuming alcohol seems so ingrained in culture that people assume that anyone able to does so.
- HighPlainsDrftr 8y ago
  I hate to ever say this, but alcohol is actually a selfish thing to consume. If you are drinking water and I'm drinking a beer, we are having a conversation, in a way, I'm telling you your not interesting enough because I need a kick from alcohol. Alcohol is a funky beast, for sure.
  - objectivetruth 8y ago
    Counter-argument: if the beer-drinker is "selfish," then the onus is on them to drink water instead? Why isn't the water drinker "selfish" for imposing that concept on the innocent beer drinker?
drdeadringer 8y ago
> how ingrained alcohol/drinking culture is in adult lives I agree. About a month ago I went to a social event where we would be doing XYZ. We finished our task and trundled for lunch; "when is the bar going to be open" was a common lament. All I wanted was to buy and eat pizza; which I did, but others were so very happy when the bartender showed up. And this was lunch time. "Noon", for example. Martinis were wanted. I just wanted pizza. It all worked out. But it was worth mentioning.

virgilp 8y ago

Depends on the quantity I guess, but... why is drinking 4-5 times a week not ok? Something like a glass of wine or a small beer should be fine, right? In some countries (e.g. France) it's a wide-spread habit to drink a glass of wine at lunch, and it doesn't seem to harm public health.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/27/worlddispatch.france https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/27/worlddispatch.... "The findings reveal that the widespread perception of the French as a healthy nation is rapidly becoming outdated."
- dnate 8y ago
  > "We're not proponents of complete abstinence. There probably is an amount of drinking that's OK," LoConte told NPR in June. "But from a cancer-prevention standpoint, drinking the least amount of alcohol possible would be the best strategy." I always found defending your drinking with the "a glass of wine a day is good for your heart" study a bit lame. But advocating abstinence because no level of alcohol is safe is very narrow minded as well.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Saying something is ok in moderation always defines moderation relative to the harm. This study puts moderation very low ~1-2 glasses of wine a month. Studies focused on different forms of harm have different thresholds, but you get all forms of harm not just what a specific study looks at. Saying I accept the harm for this benefit is fine, but pretending it does not exist is irrational.
    - virgilp 8y ago
      Do you have the study? Not some newspaper articles. It feels very unlikely to me that they were able to prove harm from 3 glasses a month, I'd like to read that. [edit] In the article cited in NPR, https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2818%2931310-2 https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2818... , which makes the claim "zero consumption minimises risk", you can see that ischemic heart disease & diabetes risks actually go down for 1 glass a day, while cancer & tuberculosis go slightly up. Their own chart of "relative weighted risk from all attributable causes" is flat-line for the first 1 glass/day. And that's from the paper that's cited to say "no level of alcohol consumption is safe!"
      - Retric 8y ago
        We are looking at different studies. This is the meta analysis I am referring to: “Every category of drinking was associated with an increased risk of cancer.” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268874745_Alcohol_consumption_and_site-specific_cancer_risk_A_comprehensive_dose-response_meta-analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268874745_Alcohol_c... PS: The study included what it called light drinking as a cancer risk. I am less generous with terminology.
        virgilp 8y ago
        Look at the "light drinking"[] result in figure 2 - most whiskers cross the 1.0 line when it's not downright in the left-hand side! (e.g. lung cancer relative risk - if you trust that result, it means light drinking _improves_ your lung cancer prospects). They flat out state that lymphoma risk is inversely correlated with drinking. AND it's only about cancer - no word about other diseases (e.g. ischemic heart disease, where there are studies showing light wine drinking improve your odds). Overall, your meta-study hardly proves that "any quantity of alcohol is bad for your health"; quite the contrary in fact, I'd say. [] 1 glass of wine a day according to their definition.
randomacct3847 8y ago
New findings show there’s no such thing as a “safe amount of alcohol” https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-your-health-global-study-claims https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...
- superpermutat0r 8y ago
  Well, the increased risks from 1 glass of wine per day is abysmal. Even 2 glasses of wine.
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    That link (which keeps being posted in HN) a case study in terrible, absurd statistics. There's some other study recently touted that booze (and coffee) keeps old people alive longer. I have no idea if it's any more sound, but it's obvious that alcohol isn't that bad in moderation based on simple demographics.
  - scott_s 8y ago
    Yes, but that's not important takeaway. What's important is that with better, recent methodology, we're discovering that the "moderate drinking is beneficial" effect vanishes.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Eh, so what. To a certain extent everything enjoyable about life is harmful to your health. Ice cream, pizza, cigars, staring at screens while sitting for hours at a time, playing sports..
- diminoten 8y ago
  One study, one time. Also, studies find driving a car to be dangerous. Same with leaving your house.
DanBC 8y ago
You're right when you say that the quantity is important. The UK talks about "units" of alcohol. One unit is 10ml of pure alcohol. Drinks in the UK are labled with their Alcohol by Volume (ABV) percentage. To work out how many units are in a drink you multiply the serving size in litres by the ABV number. Current UK guidelines are no alcohol at all if you're pregnant, and less than 14 units a week with some days alcohol free and don't save up the units for a binge. In the past wine used to be weaker and serving sizes were smaller. One unit of wine is one glass at 125ml at 8%. In the UK by law everywhere selling glass by the wine has to offer a 125ml serving. That doesn't have to be a prominent offer though, it could be a footnote to the menu. UK serving sizes tend to be 175ml (for a small) or 250ml (for a large). This means there's huge variation in the quantity that people drink when they describe "5 glasses a week". Five glasses * 125ml * 8%ABV is 5 units. Five glasses * 175ml * 12.5%ABV is 11 units. Five glasses * 250ml *12.5%ABV is 15.5 units. 15 units a week isn't hugely worrying, but it's a big difference. I guess we'd want people drinking 15 units a week to unwind after work to take up some exercise or mindfulness instead. There's some cultural variation too. When a middle class couple in the UK talk about "a glass of wine" that could mean "half a bottle", and "a few times a week" could mean "most days". I used to work in a factory and people spoke about "going for a beer" after work, and that never meant one beer, it meant a drinking session where two or three beers are drunk.
- koolba 8y ago
  > Five glasses x 250ml x 12.5%ABV is 15.5 units. I’ve always found it easier to visualize drink quantities relative to a standard bottle, 750ml for most wine and spirits. So that 250ml serving is 1/3 of a bottle per glass.
  - samstave 8y ago
    Yep - its pretty commonly accepted that a bottle of wine is ~3 glasses.
    - ancientworldnow 8y ago
      No it's not? A typical bottle should be about 5 glasses + or - one depending on how you pour.
joekrill 8y ago
I guess it depends what you define as "not ok". I mean, why is smoking 4-5 times a week not ok? Why is shooting up heroin 4-5 times a week not ok? In the end, we're simply willfully poisoning ourselves. For some reason we, as a society, have decided that it's OK to poison ourselves with certain substances (caffeine, cigarette smoke) but not others (heroin, methamphetamines). We've made this socially acceptable. So if by "ok" you mean socially acceptable, thensure, it's ok.
- foldr 8y ago
  > caffeine There's little evidence that drinking coffee or tea is bad for you overall. In contrast, anything beyond very moderate alcohol consumption is almost certainly bad for you.
  - virgilp 8y ago
    Ingesting too large amounts of caffeine is almost certainly bad for you. It's a stimulant that increases your blood pressure and heart rate. You don't want to overdo that. It's also diuretic, if you substitute water for coffee (which some people do) it can actually lead to dehydration. But yes, I agree to your larger point that coffee is less dangerous than alcohol.
    - foldr 8y ago
      >It's a stimulant that increases your blood pressure and heart rate. Does it do that to a significant extent to regular users, though? I thought the stimulant effects mostly went away once you build up a tolerance. Similarly, there is little diuretic effect for regular coffee drinkers: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-dehydrating http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-...
      - virgilp 8y ago
        Interesting, I didn't know that. As to stimulation effect for regular users... I guess it might depend, but for me, I do notice when I drink too much coffee. And I am a "regular user" - I'd say I drink around 4 espresso a day (which is not a problem, but if say I bump that up to 10, I definitely feel it)

UweSchmidt 8y ago

It used to be much more ingrained. Factory or construction workers used to drink during work, and if those old movies are to believe men would pour themselves drinks all the times. These days it is mostly acceptable to decline alcohol.

StevePerkins 8y ago
It's interesting that you cite factory or construction workers. I'm a first-generation college graduate, who grew up around skilled (and unskilled) labor. I've never heard of this being prevalent, even from old-timers discussing how things used to be way back when. Quitting time is one thing... but the last environment on earth in which you'd want to drink alcohol is around power tools or heavy machinery! My own first thought was "Mad Men"'s portrayal of privileged office workers in the mid-20th century. Of course, my second thought was my own office in the present day. Has this culture ever really gone away? I work for a tech startup, and there's a fully-stocked beer fridge and cocktail bar setup at all times. They're one of the first things that recruiters show off when I go on interviews to other similar companies. Every single company event, or small group outing, basically revolves around alcohol. I'm not a teetotaler, but I am a parent in my 40's who has kinda lost interest in drinking, and I'm starting to feel alienated by that part of the industry's culture. I don't want to feel like I have accept the beer you're offering me in order to fit in with a team, or give up my evening with my family to go watch you stand in a circle and get shit-faced in front of your co-workers. This is 2019, in our own industry.
- pnutjam 8y ago
  Same here, my company has a keg on tap and they love showing it off. I've had one beer in the two years I've worked there. Just not that interested in alcohol.
- fragmede 8y ago
  > Has this culture ever really gone away? It's possible I'm being naive as to what my coworkers are up to, but the "Man Men", 3 martini lunch culture has certainly gone away. It's fair to complain that a company's social events revolve around alcohol, but, explicitly, when people talk about "company culture" and "good fit", internal company norms around alcohol are a huge part of it. There are workplaces that are basically a continuation of college frat houses, down to the levels of sexual harassment that make Uber look hospitable. There are also workplaces where everyone goes leaves at 5pm on the dot to get home to be with their partner/kids, and the Christmas party is a potluck with very limited amounts of wine. Pick your poison. The recruiter is there to, well, recruit you, and they can't know how a given candidate feels about alcohol consumption, so if they too-gleefully show off their bar - push back! Ask how much people actually drink - there's a difference between between zero and one beer after work with coworkers (I just drink a la croix/talking rain while my coworker who does drink, drinks a beer), vs drinking liquor to excess.

matwood 8y ago

Same thing. I wouldn't say I ever had a problem with alcohol, but even 1-2 drinks here or there do not line up with my life goals. I realized that even a single drink makes me feel not quite 100% the next day, and this effect has only increased as I've gotten older. I do like beer and wine so I will have one on occasion. I found it makes them actually taste better, as I savor it now. Some other side benefits is that it saves a TON of money, and I consume less calories. Alcohol is expensive, particularly in a bar or restaurant. Less calories is obvious.

PakG1 8y ago

The unfortunate thing is how much people actually buy into it. I remember once in university, I was at a national entrepreneurship conference for student entrepreneurs. One night, there was a party at a club type of venue. I was sitting with a pretty female friend from my university when she asked me to get her water. So I went and got her a bottle of water. This jerk from another university walks up to us and incredulously asks me, "You got her water??? Here??? You got her water??? What's wrong with you???" Nerdy, socially awkward me at the time couldn't think of a comeback and I felt embarrassed that I didn't get her a beer or cocktail. But I was also really annoyed, like logically, why am I the embarrassed one here? Today's me would have a lot more confidence and some witty comebacks. :) But... part of me wonders... how much did that guy really believe what he was saying, and how much was that guy also just a scared kid inside trying to act cool and fit in due to the imagery he's been bombarded with?

stronglikedan 8y ago
> how much did that guy...and how much was that guy... Neither. It's a common joke used when people get water when there's a bar close by. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't have to be believed, and one does not have to be a "scared kid inside" to say it. I think you just read way too much into it, perhaps since it was your first encounter with said joke.
- 50656E6973 8y ago
  Indeed, I've experienced this joke many times while drinking water at bars/alcohol events and I just laugh it off. On the inside I think about how much better I'm going to feel than everyone else the next day.
- PakG1 8y ago
  I can get that, but if true, the fact that this joke is considered funny and acceptable makes parent's point about the imagery bombardment and how culturally ingrained drinking is: >> It’s actually crazy how lightly we treat this addictive, toxic substance that we joke about despite how many people it kills every year and harms directly and indirectly. As a personal aside, I find jokes that put down others to be distasteful. You don't need to denigrate to be funny. Unless the target is in on the joke. Laughing at oneself is OK. Laughing at others when the target is not laughing is not OK.

saghm 8y ago

As someone who doesn't drink alcohol (and never has), this can often be a bit overwhelming. People tend to be very surprised when I tell them that I don't drink and are very confused when I'm unable to provide a reason like religious beliefs, a medical condition, or family history of alcoholism. From my perspective, it's pretty strange that I need a reason not to besides not wanting to; nobody seems to expect that I have a reason beyond that for any other form of entertainment activity, but consuming alcohol seems so ingrained in culture that people assume that anyone able to does so.

HighPlainsDrftr 8y ago
I hate to ever say this, but alcohol is actually a selfish thing to consume. If you are drinking water and I'm drinking a beer, we are having a conversation, in a way, I'm telling you your not interesting enough because I need a kick from alcohol. Alcohol is a funky beast, for sure.
- objectivetruth 8y ago
  Counter-argument: if the beer-drinker is "selfish," then the onus is on them to drink water instead? Why isn't the water drinker "selfish" for imposing that concept on the innocent beer drinker?

drdeadringer 8y ago

> how ingrained alcohol/drinking culture is in adult lives I agree. About a month ago I went to a social event where we would be doing XYZ. We finished our task and trundled for lunch; "when is the bar going to be open" was a common lament. All I wanted was to buy and eat pizza; which I did, but others were so very happy when the bartender showed up. And this was lunch time. "Noon", for example. Martinis were wanted. I just wanted pizza. It all worked out. But it was worth mentioning.