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I completely agree with you, but technology is encouraging us to 'rely' on it's helpful beeps, alerts, and flashes. Soon we will have trained an entire generat

I completely agree with you, but technology is encouraging us to 'rely' on it's helpful beeps, alerts, and flashes. Soon we will have trained an entire generation to 'drive-by-sensors' and not senses.

LeoPanthera 8y ago
> Soon we will have trained an entire generation to 'drive-by-sensors' and not senses. I honestly believe that driver safety will approve more rapidly when that happens than ever before. I trust silicon more than I trust meat.
- wcarron 8y ago
  > I trust silicon more than I trust meat. I'm halfway onboard with you. The difference is in what I trust it to do. I trust meat more than silicon when meat is driving attentively and safely. There are many drivers out there with fantastic control of their vehicle, especially in bad situations. The other half is that I don't trust meat to actually drive attentively and safely. I trust silicon to actually drive safely, unlike people.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Sensors need to prove themselves, but I'm optimistic that senors will soon be better. I have one set of eyes looking in one direction (whatever my field of view is, lets assume 90 degrees for discussion). I can never look two directions at once, but in fact I need to be looking all 4 at once. If I allow enough margin of safety I can get by since danger general is coming from at most two predictable directions but there are situations where one of the other direction has a danger that I can't predict. (for example: right turns where I look left for the danger of cars coming and miss the pedestrian trying to cross from the right - since pedestrians are rare a the intersections I drive nobody expects them)
  - danjayh 8y ago
    I use my adaptive cruise control to prevent tailgating. Any time I find myself getting annoyed with a slow jerk blocking the left lane, I force myself to turn it on to make sure that I don't subconsciously creep up on his butt (because I know that's a thing that I sometimes do). ... I have also taken my owners manual's advice on the use of the high-beam flasher ... it calls it a 'flash to pass' ... so now I give a little blink of the brights after setting the cruise. Probably safer, but sometimes I fear that it may induce road rage.
wcarron 8y ago
Over-reliance on technology is a plague on driving quality. This is actually why I (and I realize this isn't realistic) think that new drivers should be required to learn to driv and pass the driving test using a manual transmission vehicle without driver aids such as blind-spot detection, lane-assist, assistive braking, etc. Each year, cars become more and more insulated and isolated from the reality of driving, which is incredibly dangerous. Technology is exascerbating(sp?) this problem. As you say, driving via sensors rather than senses. People must understand _what_ the car is doing in order to really know how to drive safely and competently. Lower-tech cars force people into this.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > manual transmission vehicle Why? I get that there is going to be a lot of missing sensors, but the automatic transmission is now so ubiquitous that it makes no sense to require you not to. I understand it's a nice additional skill, but in the modern era it in no way proves/disproves one's ability to function on the roadway. In fact, once these sensors all become as equally ubiquitous, there will be very little argument to be made against them as well. Might as well make an argument that you everyone should drive a Benz Patent Motor Car just to really "feel" the car.
  - wcarron 8y ago
    Because a manual transmission makes you engage more with the car. You must control it more actively, thus teaching drivers to focus on and observe the car and road rather than waiting for directives from sensors like blind-spot detection lights. An automatic mentally allows the driver to feel and operate more like a passenger than a pilot. Manual trans prevents this. It's not about some pretentious "feel" like porsche-bros espouse. It's about engagement and forming good habits so drivers are more self aware and self sufficient on the road.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > An automatic mentally allows the driver to feel and operate more like a passenger than a pilot. Manual trans prevents this. I don't understand, they are still steering the craft, as well as adjusting it's speed. You haven't removed any of the important requirements for driving - being able to steer the vehicle and modify it's velocity. The ability to use a clutch and change gears simply compounds the difficulty of that exercise, it doesn't cause the driver to necessarily engage with the car in a way affects the drivers skill, it may have a higher skill floor, but it doesn't really make for a higher performance ceiling.

LeoPanthera 8y ago

> Soon we will have trained an entire generation to 'drive-by-sensors' and not senses. I honestly believe that driver safety will approve more rapidly when that happens than ever before. I trust silicon more than I trust meat.

wcarron 8y ago
> I trust silicon more than I trust meat. I'm halfway onboard with you. The difference is in what I trust it to do. I trust meat more than silicon when meat is driving attentively and safely. There are many drivers out there with fantastic control of their vehicle, especially in bad situations. The other half is that I don't trust meat to actually drive attentively and safely. I trust silicon to actually drive safely, unlike people.
- bluGill 8y ago
  Sensors need to prove themselves, but I'm optimistic that senors will soon be better. I have one set of eyes looking in one direction (whatever my field of view is, lets assume 90 degrees for discussion). I can never look two directions at once, but in fact I need to be looking all 4 at once. If I allow enough margin of safety I can get by since danger general is coming from at most two predictable directions but there are situations where one of the other direction has a danger that I can't predict. (for example: right turns where I look left for the danger of cars coming and miss the pedestrian trying to cross from the right - since pedestrians are rare a the intersections I drive nobody expects them)
- danjayh 8y ago
  I use my adaptive cruise control to prevent tailgating. Any time I find myself getting annoyed with a slow jerk blocking the left lane, I force myself to turn it on to make sure that I don't subconsciously creep up on his butt (because I know that's a thing that I sometimes do). ... I have also taken my owners manual's advice on the use of the high-beam flasher ... it calls it a 'flash to pass' ... so now I give a little blink of the brights after setting the cruise. Probably safer, but sometimes I fear that it may induce road rage.

wcarron 8y ago

Over-reliance on technology is a plague on driving quality. This is actually why I (and I realize this isn't realistic) think that new drivers should be required to learn to driv and pass the driving test using a manual transmission vehicle without driver aids such as blind-spot detection, lane-assist, assistive braking, etc. Each year, cars become more and more insulated and isolated from the reality of driving, which is incredibly dangerous. Technology is exascerbating(sp?) this problem. As you say, driving via sensors rather than senses. People must understand _what_ the car is doing in order to really know how to drive safely and competently. Lower-tech cars force people into this.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> manual transmission vehicle Why? I get that there is going to be a lot of missing sensors, but the automatic transmission is now so ubiquitous that it makes no sense to require you not to. I understand it's a nice additional skill, but in the modern era it in no way proves/disproves one's ability to function on the roadway. In fact, once these sensors all become as equally ubiquitous, there will be very little argument to be made against them as well. Might as well make an argument that you everyone should drive a Benz Patent Motor Car just to really "feel" the car.
- wcarron 8y ago
  Because a manual transmission makes you engage more with the car. You must control it more actively, thus teaching drivers to focus on and observe the car and road rather than waiting for directives from sensors like blind-spot detection lights. An automatic mentally allows the driver to feel and operate more like a passenger than a pilot. Manual trans prevents this. It's not about some pretentious "feel" like porsche-bros espouse. It's about engagement and forming good habits so drivers are more self aware and self sufficient on the road.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > An automatic mentally allows the driver to feel and operate more like a passenger than a pilot. Manual trans prevents this. I don't understand, they are still steering the craft, as well as adjusting it's speed. You haven't removed any of the important requirements for driving - being able to steer the vehicle and modify it's velocity. The ability to use a clutch and change gears simply compounds the difficulty of that exercise, it doesn't cause the driver to necessarily engage with the car in a way affects the drivers skill, it may have a higher skill floor, but it doesn't really make for a higher performance ceiling.