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One approach to try is to physically integrate engineering with the rest of the company. If there's engineers that work on sales tools, have them work next to t

by jadbox 8y ago

One approach to try is to physically integrate engineering with the rest of the company. If there's engineers that work on sales tools, have them work next to the sales group. Secondly get engineers more involved in other parts of the company. If marketing is having a team offsite, send an engineer that works on that tech with the team. Get engineers involved in business-related meetings where they can learn both the culture and customers. If engineering is acting like a disorganized, isolated group in the company, it's often (in my experience) because management has created structures that keep them feeling isolated and without a sense of ownership/belonging. The later is important for feeling organized... if some engineers feel like things are too slow or too fast, it's probably because expectations are not well defined or understood. Signals are getting crossed somewhere before they get digested by engineers. Perhaps you need more experienced engineering managers who know how to best organize teams and can act to encourage the company's culture.

thrwwyngnr 8y ago
> If engineering is acting like a disorganized, isolated group in the company, it's often (in my experience) because management has created structures that keep them feeling isolated and without a sense of ownership/belonging. OP here. This is an extremely interesting insight. Now that I think about it, engineers were indeed isolated for a long time, because PO and UX people were the ones doing all the talking with stakeholders and users "because this is the way it is supposed to be done". This is probably both the reason they're actively isolating themselves and the reason the morale is low. Thank you.
- DanielBMarkham 8y ago
  I've been brought in several times to situations like this. Worst-case was the team that not only moved to their own building, but they set up a gated security system where the other folks couldn't get in. The technical checklist above is awesome, but no amount of technical chops is going to fix that. Your company should be an engineering team, some of which can't code very well, that also kicks ass in whatever field you're in. That's probably a big mental leap! But it's where you have to go. Tear down the barriers and integrate engineering as tightly as possible with the "real" work. Hint: whatever you do, you can do more. Put coders on the customer support phones. Rotate people through the teams as SMEs. Physically put them in places where they rub elbows with other groups. Got a bug in a CSR app? Bring in the folks affected and have them personally explain the impact to the team. I could go on, but I'm just winging it. Whatever you do will depend on what your company does and what the people are like -- how willing they are to change. Finally, and the people that do the work I do are going to hate this, be ready to fire people. Bad cultures grow employees with horrible attitudes that many times cannot be fixed. Not every bad culture situation can be fixed with magic sauce. Experience shows it only takes one person with a bad attitude in a group as large as 50 to destroy positive momentum. In general, if you want to rock, the people that code should live inside the heads of the people who find and grow value for the org. Once you get the social walls down, work on the technical stuff. Otherwise you'll just make more arrogant tech teams.
  - thrwwyngnr 8y ago
    Funny, the previous manager actually wanted a gate with a keycode to avoid anyone from ever coming. > Your company should be an engineering team, some of which can't code very well, that also kicks ass in whatever field you're in. That's probably a big mental leap! But it's where you have to go. > Tear down the barriers and integrate engineering as tightly as possible with the "real" work. Hint: whatever you do, you can do more. Put coders on the customer support phones. Rotate people through the teams as SMEs. Physically put them in places where they rub elbows with other groups. Got a bug in a CSR app? Bring in the folks affected and have them personally explain the impact to the team. This is kind of amazing to read, and a great idea to reorganize the team. Would surely solve our cultural problems, and would actually free time from the programmers. Makes a lot of sense. > Once you get the social walls down, work on the technical stuff. Otherwise you'll just make more arrogant tech teams. That's interesting to read and makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  This sounds like people coming from an enterprise instead of startup background to me.
codyb 8y ago
I like all the ideas here but putting me next to sales is a surefire way to leave me disgruntled. I can barely tolerate these open office layouts in general, much less with people making phone calls all day next to me. As an engineer, things that would help me: Flexible work from home policy. If you get your work done, you go home, and no one looks at you weird for leaving at 5:30 after staying late the evening prior. Noise cancelling headphones. Like the parent here said, more integration with the company. I want to celebrate successes, have input on projects, and know my coworkers. I don't want to be a task hamster running on a wheel of endless tickets. Strong engineering culture. Design reviews. Code reviews. CI/CD in place. Intelligent people around me who are excited about engineering. Everything not always being a rush or on fire. On call duties limited. Deadlines not always impending and looming. Healthy work life balance. Benefits for things like education and gyms. Am I spoiled? Sure. But that's the world we live in.
- thrwwyngnr 8y ago
  > Like the parent here said, more integration with the company. I want to celebrate successes, have input on projects, and know my coworkers. I don't want to be a task hamster running on a wheel of endless tickets. This is an interesting idea and might work really well! Currently the hamster wheel ticket thing is a demand from engineering, but maybe suggestions for changes would be welcomed by the team. The other things, we sorta have it all, I think? I asked a friend about the Spolsky Checklist and we pass it.

by jadbox 8y ago

thrwwyngnr 8y ago

> If engineering is acting like a disorganized, isolated group in the company, it's often (in my experience) because management has created structures that keep them feeling isolated and without a sense of ownership/belonging. OP here. This is an extremely interesting insight. Now that I think about it, engineers were indeed isolated for a long time, because PO and UX people were the ones doing all the talking with stakeholders and users "because this is the way it is supposed to be done". This is probably both the reason they're actively isolating themselves and the reason the morale is low. Thank you.

DanielBMarkham 8y ago
I've been brought in several times to situations like this. Worst-case was the team that not only moved to their own building, but they set up a gated security system where the other folks couldn't get in. The technical checklist above is awesome, but no amount of technical chops is going to fix that. Your company should be an engineering team, some of which can't code very well, that also kicks ass in whatever field you're in. That's probably a big mental leap! But it's where you have to go. Tear down the barriers and integrate engineering as tightly as possible with the "real" work. Hint: whatever you do, you can do more. Put coders on the customer support phones. Rotate people through the teams as SMEs. Physically put them in places where they rub elbows with other groups. Got a bug in a CSR app? Bring in the folks affected and have them personally explain the impact to the team. I could go on, but I'm just winging it. Whatever you do will depend on what your company does and what the people are like -- how willing they are to change. Finally, and the people that do the work I do are going to hate this, be ready to fire people. Bad cultures grow employees with horrible attitudes that many times cannot be fixed. Not every bad culture situation can be fixed with magic sauce. Experience shows it only takes one person with a bad attitude in a group as large as 50 to destroy positive momentum. In general, if you want to rock, the people that code should live inside the heads of the people who find and grow value for the org. Once you get the social walls down, work on the technical stuff. Otherwise you'll just make more arrogant tech teams.
- thrwwyngnr 8y ago
  Funny, the previous manager actually wanted a gate with a keycode to avoid anyone from ever coming. > Your company should be an engineering team, some of which can't code very well, that also kicks ass in whatever field you're in. That's probably a big mental leap! But it's where you have to go. > Tear down the barriers and integrate engineering as tightly as possible with the "real" work. Hint: whatever you do, you can do more. Put coders on the customer support phones. Rotate people through the teams as SMEs. Physically put them in places where they rub elbows with other groups. Got a bug in a CSR app? Bring in the folks affected and have them personally explain the impact to the team. This is kind of amazing to read, and a great idea to reorganize the team. Would surely solve our cultural problems, and would actually free time from the programmers. Makes a lot of sense. > Once you get the social walls down, work on the technical stuff. Otherwise you'll just make more arrogant tech teams. That's interesting to read and makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
Aeolun 8y ago
This sounds like people coming from an enterprise instead of startup background to me.

codyb 8y ago

I like all the ideas here but putting me next to sales is a surefire way to leave me disgruntled. I can barely tolerate these open office layouts in general, much less with people making phone calls all day next to me. As an engineer, things that would help me: Flexible work from home policy. If you get your work done, you go home, and no one looks at you weird for leaving at 5:30 after staying late the evening prior. Noise cancelling headphones. Like the parent here said, more integration with the company. I want to celebrate successes, have input on projects, and know my coworkers. I don't want to be a task hamster running on a wheel of endless tickets. Strong engineering culture. Design reviews. Code reviews. CI/CD in place. Intelligent people around me who are excited about engineering. Everything not always being a rush or on fire. On call duties limited. Deadlines not always impending and looming. Healthy work life balance. Benefits for things like education and gyms. Am I spoiled? Sure. But that's the world we live in.

thrwwyngnr 8y ago
> Like the parent here said, more integration with the company. I want to celebrate successes, have input on projects, and know my coworkers. I don't want to be a task hamster running on a wheel of endless tickets. This is an interesting idea and might work really well! Currently the hamster wheel ticket thing is a demand from engineering, but maybe suggestions for changes would be welcomed by the team. The other things, we sorta have it all, I think? I asked a friend about the Spolsky Checklist and we pass it.