8 ms·

It really depends on where you live. Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. Sure you can replace a lot of the things that rust until the frame goes,

It really depends on where you live. Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. Sure you can replace a lot of the things that rust until the frame goes, but it starts to get expensive. Pumps, hard to get to filters, starters, alternators, struts and other suspension bushings and components, engine timing components, and transmissions are liable to just go well before the life of the motor is up. If parts are dirt cheap and your wrenching is free it's doable, but kind of a headache. If you pay someone else to wrench I think it's not a great idea especially for some models and brands.

xhedley 8y ago
The frames on these were aluminium alloy - so no rust!
- linksnapzz 8y ago
  No. The LLV has an aluminum body on a tubular steel frame similar to the GM S-10 pickup.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Only the marketing department calls an S10 frame tubular. It's regular old C channel with boxed sections in strategic areas.
ghaff 8y ago
>Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. Yeah, I live in the Northeast US and, with one exception, rust has been the proximate cause of retiring every vehicle I've ever owned (as well as a few expensive near end-of-life repairs I shouldn't have had done). The situation is much better than it was 40 years or so again but, if you drive a vehicle in the winter around here, you're still looking at a realistic maximum life of 10 to 15 years before everything just starts falling apart. I have a 20 year old Honda Del Sol I've garaged in the winter for about the last 10 years. Whenever I take it into the Honda dealer there are always mechanics that want to ooh and ahh over it because they said you basically don't see them around New England any longer.
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  I’m from Pennsylvania, and I’ve seen places that sell used cars that are sent there from down south, specifically to advertise the lack of rust damage compared to local used cars.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Hopefully they weren't from the coast or suffered water damage from whatever hurricane :-)
- pasbesoin 8y ago
  Yep. Midwest metropolis (out in the suburbs, but still fairly dense). It's the rust. Well, and in a few Chrystlers and a Ford I've been familiar with, the trannie. Kind of a race between the two factors. Right now, I have an older Subaru that would be good for at least a few more years, except the rust has compromised the gas tank. And dropping that means dropping the drive train. And you can get it back together -- but how many parts do you end up having to replace, because the rust has gotten to them too badly. And then you're closing in on the value of the car. If/when we switch to composites (and/or aluminum), with an electric drive train maybe localized at the four wheels, or at least "compartmentalized" and swap-able (1), then maybe the rust factor and overall longevity will improve. Maybe... I'm waiting to see what creative means corrosion demonstrates to further its entropy under this scenario. -- 1. And for the record, I'd still prefer a "hybrid" design with backup on-board generation from some type of chemical fuel, at least until electric penetration is thorough and cold-weather capacity is secured.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Aluminum has some advantages--albeit at a price. [1] though it's not clear cut for a variety of reasons. It's also not just the structure but everything carrying fluids around or making up the suspension system. Corrosion is nasty--I used to be involved with the design and maintenance of offshore drilling rigs--and it's pretty much a constant battle that you never win. [1] https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/16437/The-Battle-of-the-Bodies-Steel-vs-Aluminum-in-Automotive-Production.aspx https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/...
stcredzero 8y ago
It really depends on where you live. Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. All aluminum construction would mitigate a lot of that. When aluminum oxidizes, it tends to form something hard, as opposed to flaky rust. Electric vehicles could be optimized for delivery fleet use with a highly modular construction and a smooth underbody. The modules could be removed for repair while a spare one is swapped in. (This is currently done with M1 Abrams tanks.) Electric drive-trains also require less maintenance, and the open cargo space of a delivery van can facilitate easy access to mechanicals even though the underbody has no openings.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  Aluminum is a lot more expensive to make, more expensive to make something out of and more expensive to repair than steel. It is lighter though, another considerable advantage when making a vehicle besides durability.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    For something on the scale of the USPS fleet, economies of scale would come into play. If such vehicles were very highly modular, all of the modules could be removed and placed into another frame and the old one recycled. (Come to think of it, this is also somewhat done with Abrams M1 tanks.)
  - Retric 8y ago
    Aluminum is only ~2,300$ per metric ton, so the raw material cost is not that much of an issue. It’s material property’s is actually a significant issue as the cars vibration for example would likely cause cracks to form and propagate. PS: Ford is moving the F150 to aluminum adding ~500$ per vehicle but also saving weight. Which should net to zero via added fuel economy.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kec 8y ago
  That would be a terrible idea. Aluminum can only flex so much before the metal fatigues and fails catastrophically, steel does not (so long as the stress is below a critical threshold). Aluminum framed trucks would not last nearly as long.

xhedley 8y ago

The frames on these were aluminium alloy - so no rust!

linksnapzz 8y ago
No. The LLV has an aluminum body on a tubular steel frame similar to the GM S-10 pickup.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Only the marketing department calls an S10 frame tubular. It's regular old C channel with boxed sections in strategic areas.

ghaff 8y ago

>Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. Yeah, I live in the Northeast US and, with one exception, rust has been the proximate cause of retiring every vehicle I've ever owned (as well as a few expensive near end-of-life repairs I shouldn't have had done). The situation is much better than it was 40 years or so again but, if you drive a vehicle in the winter around here, you're still looking at a realistic maximum life of 10 to 15 years before everything just starts falling apart. I have a 20 year old Honda Del Sol I've garaged in the winter for about the last 10 years. Whenever I take it into the Honda dealer there are always mechanics that want to ooh and ahh over it because they said you basically don't see them around New England any longer.

steveklabnik 8y ago
I’m from Pennsylvania, and I’ve seen places that sell used cars that are sent there from down south, specifically to advertise the lack of rust damage compared to local used cars.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Hopefully they weren't from the coast or suffered water damage from whatever hurricane :-)
pasbesoin 8y ago
Yep. Midwest metropolis (out in the suburbs, but still fairly dense). It's the rust. Well, and in a few Chrystlers and a Ford I've been familiar with, the trannie. Kind of a race between the two factors. Right now, I have an older Subaru that would be good for at least a few more years, except the rust has compromised the gas tank. And dropping that means dropping the drive train. And you can get it back together -- but how many parts do you end up having to replace, because the rust has gotten to them too badly. And then you're closing in on the value of the car. If/when we switch to composites (and/or aluminum), with an electric drive train maybe localized at the four wheels, or at least "compartmentalized" and swap-able (1), then maybe the rust factor and overall longevity will improve. Maybe... I'm waiting to see what creative means corrosion demonstrates to further its entropy under this scenario. -- 1. And for the record, I'd still prefer a "hybrid" design with backup on-board generation from some type of chemical fuel, at least until electric penetration is thorough and cold-weather capacity is secured.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Aluminum has some advantages--albeit at a price. [1] though it's not clear cut for a variety of reasons. It's also not just the structure but everything carrying fluids around or making up the suspension system. Corrosion is nasty--I used to be involved with the design and maintenance of offshore drilling rigs--and it's pretty much a constant battle that you never win. [1] https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/16437/The-Battle-of-the-Bodies-Steel-vs-Aluminum-in-Automotive-Production.aspx https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/...

stcredzero 8y ago

It really depends on where you live. Rust will eat up your car in a lot of the world. All aluminum construction would mitigate a lot of that. When aluminum oxidizes, it tends to form something hard, as opposed to flaky rust. Electric vehicles could be optimized for delivery fleet use with a highly modular construction and a smooth underbody. The modules could be removed for repair while a spare one is swapped in. (This is currently done with M1 Abrams tanks.) Electric drive-trains also require less maintenance, and the open cargo space of a delivery van can facilitate easy access to mechanicals even though the underbody has no openings.

jacquesm 8y ago
Aluminum is a lot more expensive to make, more expensive to make something out of and more expensive to repair than steel. It is lighter though, another considerable advantage when making a vehicle besides durability.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  For something on the scale of the USPS fleet, economies of scale would come into play. If such vehicles were very highly modular, all of the modules could be removed and placed into another frame and the old one recycled. (Come to think of it, this is also somewhat done with Abrams M1 tanks.)
- Retric 8y ago
  Aluminum is only ~2,300$ per metric ton, so the raw material cost is not that much of an issue. It’s material property’s is actually a significant issue as the cars vibration for example would likely cause cracks to form and propagate. PS: Ford is moving the F150 to aluminum adding ~500$ per vehicle but also saving weight. Which should net to zero via added fuel economy.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kec 8y ago
That would be a terrible idea. Aluminum can only flex so much before the metal fatigues and fails catastrophically, steel does not (so long as the stress is below a critical threshold). Aluminum framed trucks would not last nearly as long.