8 ms·
Critical step found in DNA repair, cellular aging (2017)
- rasengan 8y agoThis is very legit. The results are tremendous. I recommend it to anyone, but with a doctor's recommendation of course. Here is a study on adult humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5876407/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5876407/ Edit: Comment edited.
- chriscappuccio 8y agoWhat are you seeing from it?
- hattar 8y ago> the results are tremendous What results are you seeing?
- rasengan 8y agoI was struggling to build muscle. My weight was really low. After adding Niagen (and a few other supplements) to my diet, I gained 10 pounds. This was literally after ~1-2 years of 0 growth, and not much has changed aside from that in terms of my diet and exercise routine.
- jf- 8y agoWhy would an increased rate of DNA repair lead to increased muscular hypertrophy?
- rasengan 8y agoAccording to a recent study, it appears that "lower NAD+ levels are deleterious for muscle health and higher NAD+ levels augment muscle health. [1]" [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5840929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5840929/
- jf- 8y agoI only skimmed your paper, but it looks like any positive effect is from better mitochondrial function. While I’m sure that’s a good thing, it’s not what the article is talking about, so to say that your experience proves that it really works is a little misleading.
- RhodesianHunter 8y agoOne person's experience never proves anything in a macro sense, as I'm sure the person you're responding to understands. All it proves is that through actual biological processes or through placebo effect it has an effect on OP.
- brador 8y agoIf you stopped the dosage, would you expect to lose the weight and muscle? Seems easy to test.
- ilteris 8y agoCan you share your diet and exercise routine please? I do have the same problem.
- tchaffee 8y agoThe study talks about giving the mice NMN, not Niagen. Are the two related?
- rasengan 8y agoBoth NMN and NR (from Niagen) leads to NAD+!
- amelius 8y agoI've seen it mentioned on forums. But what does science say about it?
- rasengan 8y ago- It WORKS in adults and is well received. [1] - Having low NAD+ leads to all sorts of terrible, horrible, no good, very bad issues. [2] - You need NAD+ for muscle and energy. [3] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5876407/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5876407/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29295624 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29295624 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5840929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5840929/
- apcragg 8y ago[1] does not say that it works, don't misrepresent the study. It found that certain markers were increased/changed by the supplement and that a few of the observed physiological functions appear to have improved a merit further study. Also, N=24 so ymmv. Seems like something that may be useful after further study but your conclusion is misleading.
- drharby 8y agoWhy do you find it necessary to have a creative commons license for your hn profile?
- FrozenVoid 8y ago> Having low NAD+ leads to all sorts of terrible Maybe "the low NAD+ levels" are a symptom, not a cause, since its linked to unrelated diseases?
- amelius 8y agoI don't understand the conclusion; perhaps the NAD+ is the thing connecting the diseases?
- blacksmith_tb 8y agoFor another sample of one, I took Elysium Basis for several months, stopped, and then took a similar dosage of NAD and pterostilibene from other manufacturers. I can't say I noticed any obvious benefit from either regimen. Looking over article, NMN looks like the more interesting compound, and it does seem like some human trials of it are in progress, e.g.[1] 1: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03151239 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03151239
- brador 8y ago> I can't say I noticed any obvious benefit from either regimen What could you have noticed?
- blacksmith_tb 8y agoNot sure if you meant that as "it's obvious nonsense so of course you wouldn't have noticed anything" or if it was broader question about placebo/nocebo effect? I was just responding to the claim that taking NAD supplements could have tremendous effects - presumably I would have noticed those.
- ryanianian 8y agoI've been taking Elysium Basis for a little over a year. I've noticed no effects, secondary or otherwise. I looked really hard at their research about (likely) effectiveness, and it did seem to check out. But it is around $50/month so I'm not sure if I will continue to take it forever. Elysium is mostly a marketing company, so hopefully they will have competition and the price will drop if more research proves NAD's effectiveness when taken by humans long-term.
- chriscappuccio 8y agoNicotinamide/niacinamide supplements have been creeping out of vendors for a while now, many following this publication. This article suggests there should have been human trials in 2018, it would be interesting to see what happened there.
- radicaldreamer 8y agoThere are a bunch of expensive NAD supplements out there but dosage is nowhere close to the same as the studies and no shown efficacy in humans yet.
- rndmind 8y agoArticle is from March 2017, has there been follow up findings on this research?
- mathias_awkward 8y agoI'd be very curious to hear it indeed. We keep getting interesting articles about breakthrough, but lack to my knowledge follow-up on them. Good opportunity here to see how this went
- toufiqbarhamov 8y agoI’m skeptical too, and a lot of this research smacks of the same mix of desperation (who wants to die?) and a market of nearly all people which has traditionally made searching for elixirs of immortality such a dangerous and unproductive pastime. Aside from a lot of geriatric mice and worms, people ordering raw compounds from Alibaba, and the occasional muttering about uploading our brains (as if we even understand what that would look like, never mind technically entail) this looks a lot like people melting cinnabar in an alembic.
- apo 8y agoThe article makes it very difficult to follow up because no direct link to the scientific paper is given. This lapse is unfortunately way too common and puts the author as well as the publisher in an unprofessional light. Presumably, this is the paper: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6331/1312 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6331/1312 Given the title, you can look up on Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=+0+REPORTS+A+conserved+NAD%2B+binding+pocket+that+regulates+protein-protein+interactions+during+aging&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=+0+R... Click on the "Cited by" link at the bottom of the entry to see the 47 papers that have cited this one to date: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6666909628793143847&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6666909628793143847... Reverse chronological sort didn't find anything that looked like a follow-up.
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- kumarski 8y agoThis study is done on mice.
- ajross 8y agoIt's a biochemical result, not a medical study about a treatment.
- reasonattlm 8y agoThe only human study providing a compelling reason to try nicotinamide riboside is the one showing a drop in blood pressure in hypertensive adults [1]. But this was a very small group of patients. If it does that in most people (which it may not) then that alone is a compelling reason to use it providing the price is low. However, it isn't a compelling reason for the sizable expense of developing this outgrowth of sirtuin / calorie restriction research. That funding and person-years of researcher time could have gone towards far more effective programs such as senolytic development, or other SENS damage repair approaches to aging. Not all NAD+ precursors are the same. The evidence in animal studies suggests that some (such as nicotinamide [2]) do basically nothing. The most effective approaches appear to be infusions, but they are not cheap. Currently nicotinamide riboside is produced by one company in the US, and the retail price reflects that. If you do decide to take it for the long term at the dosage from the studies of 1g/day or so, it is considerably cheaper to order by the kilogram from Chinese manufacturers (plenty of manufacturers on Alibaba) and run the necessary mass spectrometry and other tests per batch to ensure quality (plenty of providers on Science Exchange). While you are taking it, consider that this is small potatoes. It is a tiny effect in the grand scheme of things. Exercise has a larger and more reliable outcome. The research community should be doing better than this (and is in the case of senolytics) and people outside the research community need to become better at telling the difference between marginal and useful approaches to the challenge of aging. [1]: https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-018-03421-7 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-018-03421-7 [2]: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2018.02.001 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2018.02.001
- RhodesianHunter 8y ago> and run the necessary mass spectrometry and other tests per batch to ensure quality As someone with a background in supply chain security and fraud please DO NOT put anything purchased from China in your body without thorough testing.
- reasonattlm 8y agoTesting per batch is needed when ordering direct from any manufacturer. In my experience there isn't any real difference in quality and order fulfillment between Chinese and non-Chinese manufacturers when it comes to extracts and research chemicals, provided you stick with groups that have good reputations in Alibaba. So all that caution that most people feel regarding Chinese manufacturers should be spread out a little more and applied to those closer to home as well.
- evo_9 8y agoFor those already taking this what is your daily dosage and do you split it into an Am an Pm schedule? Because if the cost just wondering if people are taking the 1g a day like the article or less (more?).
- aasasd 8y agoOff-topic, I wonder if other people also subvocalize when reading and then get startled by passages like "already known for its role as a controller."
- perseusprime11 8y agoWhen is the best time to take NR? Mornings on empty stomach?
- bookofjoe 8y agoOT: I now read HN comments BEFORE OP — offers a slightly different lens.
- jobigoud 8y agoI only read the article if the discussion is interesting.
- dhab 8y agoThis article proposes raising levels of NAD to counter aging related dna damage. My google search also resulted in: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-12-pathway-linked-slower-aging-fuels.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-12-pathway-linked-slower... TLDR; NAD+ over-activeness is associated with a deadly form of brain cancer, and the article ends with an open question from an expert if it could be modulated to not have this adverse effect. The next step is probably figuring out the tricky balance between these two ends.
- gamerextremepop 8y agoIf it worked for him then what's your problem? Get a life bastard.
- ganeshkrishnan 8y agoease up on the aggresion
- fasteo 8y agoThis was Dr David Sinclair, trying to convince us - again - that he found the fountain of youth, much like he did back in in 2004 with resveratrol, cashing 720m USD after selling his company to Glaxo in 2008. He was later involved [1] in a case of research fraud involving resveratrol. Snake oil I would say. [1] http://retractionwatch.com/2012/01/12/so-how-peripheral-was-dipak-das-resveratrol-work-really/ http://retractionwatch.com/2012/01/12/so-how-peripheral-was-...
- nostromo 8y agoUnless I'm missing something, you're claiming that David Sinclair's research at Harvard can never be trusted because someone he doesn't seem to know and hasn't worked with (Dipak Das at University of Connecticut) and also happens to be dead committed scientific fraud. This is beyond "guilt by association" it's "guilt by non-association."
- fasteo 8y agoWhat I am trying to say is that you just can’t take basic research and take it to the market, selling it as the fountain of youth. And Dr. Sinclair cited Dipak Das in his research and knew him personally, when they both served together on the scientific committee of the “first international scientific conference of Resveratrol and Health” in Denmark in 2010
- joe_the_user 8y agoWhat I am trying to say is that you just can’t take basic research and take it to the market, selling it as the fountain of youth. Well, I would speculate that it would require a multiphase treatment to anything like youth restoral. At the same time, I think ultimately we simply don't know. Human evolution didn't necessarily select for or against humans living indefinitely and there may fairly simple mechanism whose interruption could add X many years to human span - or there might not be. Well, on the one-hand, the article goes on to show Sinclair did know Das, on the other hand, the article doesn't show any close connection. Moreover, the article asks "How peripheral was Das' research?" and apparently answer "well, I guess it was kind of peripheral". The Lowe links go to spam so it's hard to figure out some of the implications too.
- perseusprime11 8y agoHere's a link from FDA recognizing that it is safe to use: https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GRAS/ucm505226.pdf https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GRAS/ucm505226.pdf
- colordrops 8y agoIs it possible that NAD would also repair DNA damage in cancer cells? This reminds me of those that take growth hormone in middle age with the hope that cancer will be cured before they get it.
- atomical 8y agoMaybe they'll even find a cure for body dysmorphia. It's usually those people that use growth hormone.
- Escolte 8y agoWhy are people all of a sudden posting medical news on HN from one or two years ago?
- williesleg 8y agoHillary and Biden know you just drink little Haitian kid blood and that keeps you young. It's true.
- pcorsaro 8y agoDr Peter Attia did a podcast with Dr Sinclair not too lon ago where they discuss this: https://peterattiamd.com/davidsinclair/ https://peterattiamd.com/davidsinclair/ The show notes on the episodes are always really good, and you can almost read them without listening to the episode.
- fallingfrog 8y agoMy humble opinion is that the cure for aging is going to involve creating some perfect stem cells for the body to regenerate from. The idea is that you could perform an analysis on a few thousand cells from an adult, and since the mutations in each adult cell are in different places, by looking at the most common variant of each base pair you can figure out what the perfect original dna strand looked like. Then you can create at least one perfect stem cell. The reason I like this approach is that fixing mutations by comparing multiple dna strands is something that evolution can’t do, whereas if the problem was some simple chemical that the body needed, evolution would have solved that problem on its own. So I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that’s probably not going to work.
- Ericson2314 8y ago> evolution would have solved that problem on its own Individuals may love agelessness, but let's not kid ourselves that it's anything but a disaster for species, society, etc. More concretely, evolutionary pressure for immortality is nil when reproduction (including evolution itself!) is a more efficient way to spread and preserve genetic material. If anything, aging + death would be the evolved trait to ensure smoother adaptation!
- aristophenes 8y agoAgree. Immortality would be a tragedy of the commons, in my opinion. At least, in an environment with limited resources. If we were capable of interstellar travel and there was no other life out there it wouldn't be, but until that happens its ultimately good for society that it has a complete turnover every hundred years, and not just for evolutionary adaptation. Imagine if Stalin or Mao had never died. Imagine if the entire British government was run by politicians from the 1300s to the 1800s. Maybe Caesar Augustus would still be running the Roman Empire, fighting a never-ending insurgency from the prophet Muhammad. Things might have more stability, but change and opportunity would hardly exist and each succeeding generation would be permanent underclasses of children. "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. " - Max Planck
- LinuxBender 8y agoWhy are there NMN supplements, when it is essentially vitamin-b / niacin? Honest question, what am I missing? Asking because I already get too much vitamin b3, 6 and 12 from energy drinks.