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More games should be honest about death
- wetpaws 8y agoI am surprised no one mentioned Nier Automata yet
- 1123581321 8y agoWell-written. I also find these kinds of games to be cathartic experiences. However, I think that the few games have saturated the market, or over-saturated, if That Dragon, Cancer’s poor sales are representative[1]. I suppose that might be because viewing the content of these games is cathartic enough, but it might also be because unless one is in the industry, playing one of these games once, or once per personal loss, is enough, and thankfully sudden losses like the author’s are still rare. 1 http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/thatdragoncancer/2016/3/24/on-lets-plays http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/thatdragoncancer/2016/3/24/o...
- mysterydip 8y agoPart of the reason for poor sales of a "play once and done" game is people can just watch someone do a "Let's Play" on YouTube and experience the (in most cases) linear narrative without having to pay.
- cerebellum42 8y agoViews on a Let's play are not equal to lost sales. Most of those people wouldn't have been exposed to the game in the first place and plenty of viewers go on to buy the game after watching a let's play anyways, even for linear story experiences. It's practically impossible to come up with an exact figure of how many sales a let's play drives, vs. how many it prevents, but for many games exposure through YouTube has gotten the word out to an audience many times larger than what a developer with a small marketing budget could have managed otherwise.
- darkerside 8y agoAnd yet, that one play through could offer a tremendous benefit in learning to cope with a heartbreaking loss. I wonder if there's room yet in society for prescribing video games like this, a la https://www.thestar.com/amp/opinion/star-columnists/2018/10/28/montreal-doctors-write-prescriptions-for-free-museum-visits.html https://www.thestar.com/amp/opinion/star-columnists/2018/10/...
- jdietrich 8y agoTrivial entertainment generally sells better than serious explorations of an important theme, regardless of the medium. Six of the ten top-grossing movies in 2018 were adaptations of superhero comics; several Oscar-nominated movies have barely recouped their costs.
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- INTPenis 8y agoI'm sorry but I play games to forget my troubles, not to take on yours.
- danso 8y agoThe author is arguing that death is a fertile and mostly unexplored field to be explored by video game devs/writers, not that people should stop creating and playing fun fantasy games. His conclusion explicitly states this: > I honestly believe that there’s room for everything within games. I’ve not hung up my assault rifle just yet. But I found genuine catharsis in making and playing videogames that deviate from safe themes to examine challenging subjects. Something as messy and complex as death has begun to make a least a little more sense.
- ceejayoz 8y agoI suspect the writer of this piece would be fine with that. You play games for certain reasons. The writer builds games for certain reasons. They're not demanding you buy them.
- dragontamer 8y agoThis is exceptionally callous way of looking at things. Video games are certainly a medium for discussion: "Papers Please" is a discussion point on legal immigration for example. (Its not true across the board: "Prison Architect", is NOT a discussion point on prisons). I'm not one to play "political" games, but IMO, they are no different than political or personal movies, poems, or letters. Video games are just one more medium of which society can use to connect and communicate with other people. Have you played the "This is fine" flash game? Its actually a deeply personal + political discussion point as well. https://namsang.itch.io/thisisfine https://namsang.itch.io/thisisfine These games aren't necessarily designed for maximum enjoyment, they're optimized for maximum discussion and community connections.
- reificator 8y ago> (Its not true across the board: "Prison Architect", is NOT a discussion point on prisons). I mean... to a degree it is. Certainly not to the same degree as Papers Please, but that's a high bar. Or maybe I just read my own assumptions into the game...
- jchw 8y agoI find games that try to depict real life suffering to often be too on the nose for the medium, but I love games that deal with themes like loss, grief, etc. through good story telling. Some indie games have done a really good job of this, even when it's not the focus. Celeste for example toes the line of being too on the nose in my opinion but is a great example of a game taking on a serious topic (anxiety.) Plenty of other examples out there.
- golemotron 8y agoNot to make light of this but we could say that more romances should be honest about love too. Fiction (and games are a form of fiction) separate parts of life from their context so that we can experience them by themselves. It's always going to have appeal.
- joshschreuder 8y agoI think Florence (mobile game) did the depiction of real life romance pretty well. https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/florence/id1297430468?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/florence/id1297430468?mt=8 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mountains.feathertop&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mountains....
- fareesh 8y agoSome games have done a great job of conveying complex emotions. Metal Gear Solid 5 - The Phantom Pain, for all its faults, either inadvertently, or through genius, managed to deliver the feeling of "Phantom Pain" by launching an incomplete game. By pitching the installment as the end to a 25 year old epic saga, the game simply ends with a seemingly unsolvable problem. Earlier installments also killed off characters (The Boss, Big Boss) in tragic fashion. The Last of Us & Final Fantasy VII also had some good plot points that dealt with tragic deaths.
- Etheryte 8y agoA friend of mine who's a lifelong fan of MGS says he always gets phantom pain when someone brings Phantom Pain up. A tragedy to see the series wrap up like this.
- gammateam 8y agoI think the name of this medium undermines the discussion. "Games" instead of the interactive experiences they are Pretty much any heavy topic has a gamer saying "I think we SHOULD we able to have [this controversial thing] in games!" and it sounds horrible. From the gamer's perspective it is as benign and intense as reading a book, or watching a movie, but calling it a game, VIDEOgame even - something in the minds of the population as a play thing for children, and coupling it with adult controversial peril - just won't get the message across. Of course we aren't for censorship in mediums, which means anything goes. I think the way this topic is framed - primarily due to the name of the medium - has slowed this discussion down.
- kiriakasis 8y agoBut interactive mediums and games are different. It is hard to define a line, but in my experience you get the best of both world when proper games (those that are more natural to call games that interactive mediums) have deep messages. For me the perfect example was (the particular run I had in) Undertale. Where if you never watched the trailer you only learn the truth at the very end. For what I have tried of "interactive mediums" they are harder to build an emotional connection than books, movies, and games.
- gammateam 8y agoI get that the term is going to stick Debating what videogames should and shouldn't do is always going to undermine its own message with people that don't really why adults are talking about videogames
- pbalau 8y agoI don't think the op actually talks about games, but about interactive stories. In my mind, a game needs a challenge, the story is almost secondary. Take the Fallout games, the stories are there, but without battling the monsters, you don't get anywhere (yes, I know you can not battle the monsters, there is still a level of skill required to reach the various stages of the story). If you look at a game like Orwell, there is almost no skill involved and, in the end, you can't really win. You can't replay the game and get better at it. Probably this was the reason why Mass Effect 3 didn't have that many stelar reviews, 'cause in the end, it didn't matter what you did. There is a place for these interactive stories, but hey are not video games.
- icsllaf 8y agoOrwell is different though. It has multiple endings, you can possibly fail to come at the right conclusions at certain points which change the story dramatically, and you have to put in time and effort to actually find certain facts to get a good ending.
- projektfu 8y agoI started the article hoping it would be about making death and life-threatening situations more severe in games, both to make them a little more realistic as well as making them more difficult and requiring more strategy. I've always thought that there should be an FPS where getting shot once is likely to kill you. Probably there is, but I don't play a lot of games anymore.
- empath75 8y agoUltimately it’s still not realistic because you can just go on playing another game after that. I think most people spend their lives trying not to think about death in a realistic way.
- Buldak 8y agoLots of military shooters will kill you with one or two bullets. I've thought that what would really make a shooter "realistic" would be if players who get shot are maimed (rather than being able to run and jump just as well at 1% health as 100%). But who knows whether that would actually be fun.
- 1ris 8y agoArma 3 does that. If your legs are hurt you still can move and the walking animation is the same, but the speed can be close to zero. if your arms are hurt, you cant shoot straight anymore. They also have a way better (whatever that might mean) visualiation of pain and dying than other shooters. "Escape from Tarkov" is also praised for "feeling" realistic, but I can't say much on that.
- nailer 8y agoDirect link to game (doesn't work on mobile as you can't click 'I understand') https://danhett.itch.io/c-ya-laterrrr https://danhett.itch.io/c-ya-laterrrr
- lazyjones 8y agoIt doesn't make much sense to expect this from games. They're not "honest" about anything else, like the skills and effort required to accomplish something and getting many/infinite tries for everything. Games are pure escapism and suppression and shouldn't be expected to address real life issues in any constructive way.
- jblow 8y agoMany games are like that, but some very popular games aren't.
- yaxu 8y agoYou could say the same about any work of fiction, and you'd be equally wrong.
- kiriakasis 8y agoAlmost nothing is pure escapism. Most games that have little plot or content have a deep social nature (fortnite, LoL, online Call of Duty). Also being "honest" or "constructive" does not mean being "heavy". The best stories almost always leave lasting life lessons, in this regards games are not different from any other popular medium in the history of humanity.
- ivank 8y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU&t=23m15s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU&t=23m15s
- b_tterc_p 8y agoSerious emotional games are hard to do. Either they’re on point and really short (cool, but ultimately forgettable) or they’re probably too long to make their point. Furthermore if a player has no agency to avoid bad outcomes, it doesn’t really feel like a game. The thing you’re experience is forced. Easy to not feel accountable. Fire emblem is a good example of this. It’s a strategy game where you have about 30 characters who permanently die when killed in any battle. Most players just restart each battle until deathless runs are achieved- either due to emotional or practical concerns. So, when someone dies, it’s not sad, it’s annoying. You also lose empathy if a character dies due to unforeseeable consequences of choices or shitty AI performance. Legacy board games address these problems well. Because the state of the game is irreversibly driven forward by physical mutation of the game, it forces you to commit to your fortune and errors. I hope we see more of these games made. I haven’t seen this model used anywhere, but I could imagine a video game where you buy the right to do one irreversible play through of a story mode, cloud saved on their systems so you can’t manage the data yourself.
- dharmab 8y agoSome examples you should look into: - Diablo 3's hardcore mode, where you have a single life and your gameplay and saves are on a cloud server - Far Cry 2 permadeath journals - Roguelike strategy games like Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld - One chance, a browser game designed around a single playthrough (although the saves are hidden in a cookie that can be cleared)
- robertAngst 8y agore Diablo 3 HC- Just focus on Vitality, pick a low difficulty level, and slowly grind the game. Never died, had 1 close call due to Frozen.
- shaunpersad 8y agoSome of the most fun I've had in games were in the situations where killing was optional. And I wish more games were designed around that concept. The original Splinter Cell comes to mind. You were supposed to be a stealthy spy, so killing was often counter-productive to your goal. But if you were really careful, you could go beyond that and opt to not commit violence at all, by thinking of the best way to sneak past, trick, and divert your enemies. Putting aside the morality of it all, from a challenge/fun perspective, games make it all too easy to kill, but so much more difficult to avoid it. But some of the most satisfying experiences can come from thinking about the perfect strategies to not kill your enemies. It is curious though, why so many games require killing/violence to be fun, when there is arguably a lot of untapped fun and new strategies to be had without those mechanics.
- save_ferris 8y agoCompletely agree, it's surprising more games don't reward alternative outcomes to melees. I've been fascinated by the consumption of violent content in general over the last few years, but I struggle to find good reading on the topic, and my usual internet hangouts haven't been super helpful (I suspect some redditors think I'm an anti-gamer by asking about research into violent content consumption).
- izacus 8y agoThere's plenty of games built around that these days though - look at the 0451 games which heavily reward gameplay that avoids killing (Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Dishonored 1, 2 + their DLCs and excellent masterpiece Prey (2017)).
- mistrial9 8y agoI distinctly recall speaking at length to a Buddhist monk about the "dharma" potential of games, in the early 90s. This monk was quite literate in religious teachings, and also a good desktop publisher with his Mac. Guess what - lots of "death" in Buddhism !
- dharmab 8y agoI wonder if there's any Buddhist metaphors to a game like Devil Daggers. You're caught in an infinite cycle of life, chaos, suffering and death, and the only way to end the cycle is to cease your "desire" to play.
- rleigh 8y agoSome games do explicitly investigate death, but they are far from the norm. One I found quite touching was "To The Moon", which is a quirky but surprisingly emotional story around the death of an old man, and his lifelong struggles and regrets. It's short, but well worth a look (as is the sequel). I think this type of narrative-driven investigation of a complex and uncomfortable topic is something which games can do extremely well. But few games attempt it. I wish more did; it adds a level of depth and intimacy which I haven't experienced with other media such as books or film (though some came close).
- avcdsuia 8y agoIt's empathy I think, games are extremely capable of that.
- agumonkey 8y agoGames should be games, they should be fun.
- shurcooL 8y agoFun can be different things for different people. Games can provide different experiences that some people seek.
- white-flame 8y agoGames should also be challenging, and there can be many ways in which "challenging" can manifest.
- __m 8y agoWhy though?
- aaron695 8y ago> More games should be honest about death No. Do we not see how Gamers get irate at people from the outside coming in and telling them what they should like and participate in? The Cancer, Rape, Mental Illness games are a scam. And take away from real treatments and as we can tell from sales figures, don't work even if they did, which I doubt compared to proven scientific treatments and education programs. Just like games about "learning". They are a rort. To get kids to learn put them in a classroom. What they have produced here however is art. Which is great and has value but the title really pisses me off "More games should be honest about death"
- ekianjo 8y agoGames are made to be fun - it's not called electronic entertainment for nothing. If it's to remind you of the pain of living constantly what's the point of playing them?
- gotbeans 8y agoIf I wanted to play binary pain I might as well as deploy openstack
- krapp 8y agoGames are made to be entertainment, and like any other genre of entertainment (literature, movies, television, plays, etc.) they can encompass the entire range of emotion and experience, not just "fun." I think it's a sign of the medium maturing - more adults are playing and demanding more complex experiences than just collision detection and pattern recognition can provide.
- ekianjo 8y ago> more adults are playing and demanding more complex experiences Where do you see that? The same genres of games are as popular as ever. At best you can say a niche is forming but that's about it. Nobody is "demanding" anything.
- krapp 8y agoIt seems to me that a "niche" doesn't form unless there's a demand for it. I've seen enough indie games with "adult" themes like That Dragon Cancer and Papers Please to lead me to believe somebody is looking for games like that.
- ekianjo 8y agoI don't think that's a market in the sense that you mean it. It's more akin to "curiosity". Something stands out of the rest so a certain % of people will want to try it. And then, come back to normal games afterwards. For example, I know a bunch of people who played Paper Please (including myself) and enjoyed it, and then returned to play what they have been playing for x years before. It did not change their gaming habits.
- spullara 8y agoI love hardcore modes of video games. I once made it to The End in Minecraft on hardcode mode and as I materialized on the platform near the island the Ender dragon swooped over, knocked me off and that was it. Quite hilarious! But I also play full loot PvP games that are just basically unloved by the mainstream video game player. It is too much loss for most.
- microcolonel 8y agoThey obviously shouldn't. Games should feel worth playing. If your video games confront you with little other than heavy-handed suffering porn, any random real life activity will surely beat them. "death" is abstract in video games just as it is in chess. The purpose of this is to encourage exploration of danger without its very real drawbacks.
- white-flame 8y agoDrakengard (the first of the series) was written in response to the flippant way many games are framed: You usually score higher the more enemies you kill. Yoko Taro thought that only an insane person would actually think that way. So he created a game where the main character is literally broken and insane, killing huge swaths of enemies in a continually escalating apocalypse beyond his control. Throw in additional party members who are also broken and insane, and some point of view personalities commenting on how utterly horrible everything is, and on if the player is as insane as the character is. It's not a great game and quite dated, but definitely has a message to explore which makes traversing the horrible contexts worth it. He went on to make Drakengard 3 and the related NieR games as well.
- pnw_hazor 8y agoIt seems like there are plenty of games that try to be honest about death. I don't play them. I play games for fun.
- Haga 8y agoGaming is about preparation for life not death. Source every playing animal ever.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoDeath is a large part of life.
- _mrmnmly 8y agoOne great example of emotional game can be a Hyper Light Drifter - especially if you know about its author's illness.