8 ms·

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally all

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year, and is still a fucking unmitigated trainwreck of unusabilty.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Indeed. And you ought to see the vomit the Bluetooth puts over the spectrum. "Noise resistance" my ass. It barely works even when in ideal situations (no wifi, no bt, no microwave ovens). BT can die in a fire.
morpheuskafka 8y ago
Interesting. On Windows 10, it shows a in/out "Headset (AirPods Hands-Free)" and an out only "Headphones (AirPods Audio)." So this transition would be very easy for the user to see. However, I've as yet been unable to get a straight answer on what profile the "Headphones" mode is actually using.
- DiabloD3 8y ago
  A2DP SBC. Apple products that implement AAC over A2DP only do so on iOS devices (and in only limited cases), and also do not implement anything else (such as any form of AptX, or LDAC).
  - crazysim 8y ago
    Oddly enough macOS supports AptX.
  - pilif 8y ago
    you can tell macOS to use AAC using an Apple tool called "Bluetooth Explorer". Also, Macs equipped with a T2 chip default to using AAC even without the manual intervention. You can check what codec is used by alt-clicking the bluetooth icon in your menu bar and hovering over your headphones. There will a an "Active Codec" entry that shows which one is used (during playback).
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  Windows 10 is still a disaster. I've got to install a driver from an older Dell to enable apt-X on my XPS 9350. Codecs and licensing mean that most things will fall back to the lowest common denominator - SBC.
- geekit 8y ago
  AirPods on Windows 10 is really a disaster, after listening for while, it will go mute randomly (then requires reconnecting), and sometimes sound doesn't match to the other side of pair, few milliseconds apart - which will again require reconnecting. Hence I had to stop using it.
  - LUmBULtERA 8y ago
    This is the same for me. I also just went back to using wired headphones with my laptop. I hope that some solution comes out.
snazz 8y ago
Bluetooth is equally or more universal than Wi-Fi, though. There aren’t that many connectivity standards that are present in just about every single device under the sun, including stuff like headsets and wireless mice and keyboards. It’s effectively wireless USB (from a user perspective), with all the good and the bad that that brings.
- vkou 8y ago
  I've never had the left half of my keyboard crap out when I plugged it into a USB port. I have never gotten both the input, and the output half of a bluetooth headset to work on Windows 10. But that's understandable, since I'm sure Microsoft is strapped for resources, and has more important things to work on - like the bricking the data in My Documents in an OS update. Even if you don't want the microphone to work, getting sound to come out of a BT headset on Windows 10 is a struggle in itself.
  - jtbayly 8y ago
    I’ve never gotten input and output from a Bluetooth headset working on MacOS, either.
    - joombaga 8y ago
      Just to balance the anecdotes, I've had both input and output from a Bluetooth headset work in Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 10, OSX Mountain Lion through macOS Mojave, and various Linux distros.
      - jtbayly 8y ago
        Yes, but the very fact that this needs to be said proves how bad BT is, really. In what other connection type would it ever be stated that somebody actually managed to get it working all the way?
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      I use my AirPods everyday for input and output on macOS and it works fine for me.
freshhawk 8y ago
My reaction to reading that this happened when the microphone was turned on was also a mental "well yeah, welcome to Bluetooth". I have literally shifted my rating scale for crap technology completely to make room for Bluetooth to be far enough below everything else. The nice part is a monkey brain interprets that as everything getting better, so I am generally more content with software and tech in general. So, thanks Bluetooth?
- TylerE 8y ago
  Would it be possible for the device to essentially expose itself as two devices, one stereo audio sink and one mono audio source? I mean, yea, it's more of a pairing headache but it solves this whole class of problems without requiring cooperation from the other half of the system.
  - loeg 8y ago
    Your SoC probably only has the one BT modem so gluing on a second one might be tricky. I doubt any BT modems do this natively, but I am not familiar with the market.
    - mcny 8y ago
      IIRC Bluetooth 5.0 allows connecting to multiple speakers at the same time, no? I imagine we will see implementations become more common within a year or two?
- csours 8y ago
  Guess what the number one car infotainment complaint is... I don't have a public source, but for some vehicles bluetooth problems are the number one complain OVERALL.
  - pfranz 8y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised, but my frustration is a poor implementation or unintuitive implementation. Quite a few cars go into USB-mode as soon as you attach a phone--almost 100% of the time they just want to charge their phone and already have things set up via Bluetooth or the radio. iPhones won't let you play through the phone if you have an attached audio device. Some cars seem to be able to do album art and track progress via Bluetooth--most will do it via USB but not via Bluetooth, which confuses people. Few cars seem to have a play/pause button. My most recent car would crash the infotainment system when I tried to use Siri. The only way to reset things were to turn off the car--bummer for road trips. I get why car tech lags a few years in cars, but I'm constantly surprised by how terrible it is even in high price ranges. Since stereos are no longer swappable modules in the dash, the buttons have sprawled around the console. I was driving an in-law's Mercedes over Christmas and couldn't figure out how to turn on the stereo. When I did, I couldn't tell which buttons were for the stereo, climate control, or other, more core car functions.
discordance 8y ago
Sure, by spec the quality is bad... but my experience using them has been great (aside from drop outs in crowded areas). Audio and calls are clear.
gok 8y ago
AirPods aren't BT5.
- npunt 8y ago
  Yep. OP doesn't seem to realize BT5 was only finalized in mid-2016, and iPhone / Galaxy phones didn't even get BT5 until mid-late 2017. AirPods were released in Dec 2016. Next rev of AirPods is likely going to be BT5.
voltagex_ 8y ago
I will pay upwards of $1000AUD for a headset that correctly implements the 5.0 spec with a reasonable (read: more than SBC) set of codecs. Then I've just got to find a source that can drive it... Edit: removed incorrect stuff about the Note 9 - it's listed as Bluetooth v5.0 (LE up to 2 Mbps).
- dexterdog 8y ago
  Are you sure about that? Even the S8 has 5.0
  - voltagex_ 8y ago
    I sit corrected.
arcticbull 8y ago
I understand the sentiment but Bluetooth started over at 4.0 — it’s got nothing to do with 3.0 and earlier it was a clean room design from Nokia that was brought to the SIG, and the SIG was told this was Bluetooth now. It’s really 4-5 years old. Not an excuse though.
Slix 8y ago
I absolutely hate the terrible audio when using my Jabra Elite Active 65t to talk over VoIP. It should be crystal clear HD audio, but I have to listen to scratchy voices. I have trouble processing audio, so it makes calls really difficult. I've started resorting to cheap earbuds to hear people for really critical calls like interviews.
- nsomaru 8y ago
  What’s the reasoning on the cheap earbuds
  - cududa 8y ago
    I’ve found the jabra 65t to have better audio quality than AirPods or Bose soundsport
    - x0x0 8y ago
      Me too, except android is still utter shit so, in order to take 2 calls in a row over BT, I have to disconnect the jabras between calls. Or it won't work. This is in the year 2018, with a less than 2 year old HTC 10 phone.
  - bonzini 8y ago
    No Bluetooth, no VoIP, just analog.
Rjevski 8y ago
Another problem with Bluetooth is that most devices cater to the lowest common denominator which means even though there are ways to make it better, most devices stick to older protocols to make sure it works with old, outdated garbage.
appleflaxen 8y ago
> Bluetooth is 20 years old this year, and is still a fucking unmitigated trainwreck of unusabilty. hear hear! this is just perfectly stated. but why is it thus? bluetooth had such promise as an idea; where did it go wrong?

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

Indeed. And you ought to see the vomit the Bluetooth puts over the spectrum. "Noise resistance" my ass. It barely works even when in ideal situations (no wifi, no bt, no microwave ovens). BT can die in a fire.

morpheuskafka 8y ago

Interesting. On Windows 10, it shows a in/out "Headset (AirPods Hands-Free)" and an out only "Headphones (AirPods Audio)." So this transition would be very easy for the user to see. However, I've as yet been unable to get a straight answer on what profile the "Headphones" mode is actually using.

DiabloD3 8y ago
A2DP SBC. Apple products that implement AAC over A2DP only do so on iOS devices (and in only limited cases), and also do not implement anything else (such as any form of AptX, or LDAC).
- crazysim 8y ago
  Oddly enough macOS supports AptX.
- pilif 8y ago
  you can tell macOS to use AAC using an Apple tool called "Bluetooth Explorer". Also, Macs equipped with a T2 chip default to using AAC even without the manual intervention. You can check what codec is used by alt-clicking the bluetooth icon in your menu bar and hovering over your headphones. There will a an "Active Codec" entry that shows which one is used (during playback).
voltagex_ 8y ago
Windows 10 is still a disaster. I've got to install a driver from an older Dell to enable apt-X on my XPS 9350. Codecs and licensing mean that most things will fall back to the lowest common denominator - SBC.
geekit 8y ago
AirPods on Windows 10 is really a disaster, after listening for while, it will go mute randomly (then requires reconnecting), and sometimes sound doesn't match to the other side of pair, few milliseconds apart - which will again require reconnecting. Hence I had to stop using it.
- LUmBULtERA 8y ago
  This is the same for me. I also just went back to using wired headphones with my laptop. I hope that some solution comes out.

snazz 8y ago

Bluetooth is equally or more universal than Wi-Fi, though. There aren’t that many connectivity standards that are present in just about every single device under the sun, including stuff like headsets and wireless mice and keyboards. It’s effectively wireless USB (from a user perspective), with all the good and the bad that that brings.

vkou 8y ago
I've never had the left half of my keyboard crap out when I plugged it into a USB port. I have never gotten both the input, and the output half of a bluetooth headset to work on Windows 10. But that's understandable, since I'm sure Microsoft is strapped for resources, and has more important things to work on - like the bricking the data in My Documents in an OS update. Even if you don't want the microphone to work, getting sound to come out of a BT headset on Windows 10 is a struggle in itself.
- jtbayly 8y ago
  I’ve never gotten input and output from a Bluetooth headset working on MacOS, either.
  - joombaga 8y ago
    Just to balance the anecdotes, I've had both input and output from a Bluetooth headset work in Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 10, OSX Mountain Lion through macOS Mojave, and various Linux distros.
    - jtbayly 8y ago
      Yes, but the very fact that this needs to be said proves how bad BT is, really. In what other connection type would it ever be stated that somebody actually managed to get it working all the way?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I use my AirPods everyday for input and output on macOS and it works fine for me.

freshhawk 8y ago

My reaction to reading that this happened when the microphone was turned on was also a mental "well yeah, welcome to Bluetooth". I have literally shifted my rating scale for crap technology completely to make room for Bluetooth to be far enough below everything else. The nice part is a monkey brain interprets that as everything getting better, so I am generally more content with software and tech in general. So, thanks Bluetooth?

TylerE 8y ago
Would it be possible for the device to essentially expose itself as two devices, one stereo audio sink and one mono audio source? I mean, yea, it's more of a pairing headache but it solves this whole class of problems without requiring cooperation from the other half of the system.
- loeg 8y ago
  Your SoC probably only has the one BT modem so gluing on a second one might be tricky. I doubt any BT modems do this natively, but I am not familiar with the market.
  - mcny 8y ago
    IIRC Bluetooth 5.0 allows connecting to multiple speakers at the same time, no? I imagine we will see implementations become more common within a year or two?
csours 8y ago
Guess what the number one car infotainment complaint is... I don't have a public source, but for some vehicles bluetooth problems are the number one complain OVERALL.
- pfranz 8y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised, but my frustration is a poor implementation or unintuitive implementation. Quite a few cars go into USB-mode as soon as you attach a phone--almost 100% of the time they just want to charge their phone and already have things set up via Bluetooth or the radio. iPhones won't let you play through the phone if you have an attached audio device. Some cars seem to be able to do album art and track progress via Bluetooth--most will do it via USB but not via Bluetooth, which confuses people. Few cars seem to have a play/pause button. My most recent car would crash the infotainment system when I tried to use Siri. The only way to reset things were to turn off the car--bummer for road trips. I get why car tech lags a few years in cars, but I'm constantly surprised by how terrible it is even in high price ranges. Since stereos are no longer swappable modules in the dash, the buttons have sprawled around the console. I was driving an in-law's Mercedes over Christmas and couldn't figure out how to turn on the stereo. When I did, I couldn't tell which buttons were for the stereo, climate control, or other, more core car functions.

discordance 8y ago

Sure, by spec the quality is bad... but my experience using them has been great (aside from drop outs in crowded areas). Audio and calls are clear.

gok 8y ago

AirPods aren't BT5.

npunt 8y ago
Yep. OP doesn't seem to realize BT5 was only finalized in mid-2016, and iPhone / Galaxy phones didn't even get BT5 until mid-late 2017. AirPods were released in Dec 2016. Next rev of AirPods is likely going to be BT5.

voltagex_ 8y ago

I will pay upwards of $1000AUD for a headset that correctly implements the 5.0 spec with a reasonable (read: more than SBC) set of codecs. Then I've just got to find a source that can drive it... Edit: removed incorrect stuff about the Note 9 - it's listed as Bluetooth v5.0 (LE up to 2 Mbps).

dexterdog 8y ago
Are you sure about that? Even the S8 has 5.0
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  I sit corrected.

arcticbull 8y ago

I understand the sentiment but Bluetooth started over at 4.0 — it’s got nothing to do with 3.0 and earlier it was a clean room design from Nokia that was brought to the SIG, and the SIG was told this was Bluetooth now. It’s really 4-5 years old. Not an excuse though.

Slix 8y ago

I absolutely hate the terrible audio when using my Jabra Elite Active 65t to talk over VoIP. It should be crystal clear HD audio, but I have to listen to scratchy voices. I have trouble processing audio, so it makes calls really difficult. I've started resorting to cheap earbuds to hear people for really critical calls like interviews.

nsomaru 8y ago
What’s the reasoning on the cheap earbuds
- cududa 8y ago
  I’ve found the jabra 65t to have better audio quality than AirPods or Bose soundsport
  - x0x0 8y ago
    Me too, except android is still utter shit so, in order to take 2 calls in a row over BT, I have to disconnect the jabras between calls. Or it won't work. This is in the year 2018, with a less than 2 year old HTC 10 phone.
- bonzini 8y ago
  No Bluetooth, no VoIP, just analog.

Rjevski 8y ago

Another problem with Bluetooth is that most devices cater to the lowest common denominator which means even though there are ways to make it better, most devices stick to older protocols to make sure it works with old, outdated garbage.

appleflaxen 8y ago

> Bluetooth is 20 years old this year, and is still a fucking unmitigated trainwreck of unusabilty. hear hear! this is just perfectly stated. but why is it thus? bluetooth had such promise as an idea; where did it go wrong?