5 ms·

I was in the city this month and it is very sad to see this first hand. I think this is why we need to legalize drugs and get these people help. I live north of

I was in the city this month and it is very sad to see this first hand. I think this is why we need to legalize drugs and get these people help. I live north of San Francisco and the homeless problem is worse here too. It seems like the 2008 recession left a whole bunch of people unemployable and they are officially off the "books" now and out in the streets. This is just my observation but it seems like homelessness increased and not decreased and with unemployment % going down.

burlesona 8y ago
I’m not sure I understand how legalization would help. There’s nothing stopping access or use of these drugs now. Honest question: is any place enforcing drug laws against heroin, and is it making things worse somehow? Intuitively it seems to me like the opposite would be better, if you could not get heroin you couldn’t get addicted to it. But my minimal understanding is it’s too easy to make for enforcement to be practical.
- GrumpyNl 8y ago
  If they cant get heroine , they will find something else. People need drugs. That's how kingdoms have blossomed.
  - taobility 8y ago
    That's funny. The cities have most homeless are the places where Marijuana be legalized states: SF(California) and Seattle (Washington).
    - almostdeadguy 8y ago
      lol I think if you try hard enough you can think of other features of these cities that might be to blame.
- scythe 8y ago
  I think a slightly less risky version of legalization would be to legalize selling buprenorphine/naltrexone (Suboxone) and extended-release methylphenidate under-the-counter at pharmacies without a prescription.
- eckmLJE 8y ago
  Legalization opens the door for constructive treatment and therapy options to step in, e.g. injection sites where users can inject safely with clean needles while being exposed to opportunities for treatment. Users have a higher likelihood of accepting help at places like this, versus something like drug court. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic...
  - icebraining 8y ago
    To be fair, you don't need legalization for that, just decriminalisation of use, like Portugal did, and which had pretty good outcomes.
    - rmdashrfstar 8y ago
      Correct, decriminalization is the answer, NOT legalization. Handing out free needles to addicts while suggesting that they stop is never going to get an addict off their drug.
      - icebraining 8y ago
        Free needles is actually part of multiple successful treatment programs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment Of course, this is in a controlled fashion, and doesn't require legalization.
ncr100 8y ago
Yes it's tragic. Typical SF sight (pile of garbage on sidewalk with e-Scooter, and hypodermic needles, + my cute dog): https://imgur.com/a/vUwkfGd https://imgur.com/a/vUwkfGd. A lot needs to be done to fix this. CNN covered this too (warning: gross injection-wound imagery) https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/27/health/drug-use-san-francisco-streets/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/27/health/drug-use-san-francisco... We need to REPORT the ISSUE with the city - use the "311" phone number to report people behaving suspiciously or who obviously need support. This generates METRICS. Then, the CITY can use the metrics to justify ACTION. Politicians can feel "safe" by responsibly spending $$ beaucoup bucks $$ without fear of voter reprisal come election-time. The PEOPLE can use the metrics to justify SOCIAL CHANGE. Why does the US face this problem? Is it because of our "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality? How can the US adopt a holistic social approach, to accept and respond healthily to the fact that some people have harder times than others? There needs to be a change in attitudes.
- assblaster 8y ago
  Do you think there might be a cultural issue as well? I think individuals might be hesitant to report offenses because it might make them feel like they're trash-shaming the homeless/neighbors. I know for myself that I hesitate to cause any ruckus, and let people be, but I think the residents of SF take that view to the 10th degree.
  - ncr100 8y ago
    SF residents do take extreme stances sometimes, yes. Shaming a disadvantaged person seems unhelpful, to me. Culturally I'm thinking about something which might not be what you were asking about -- the responsibility of the society to care for its disadvantaged or "ill fitting" citizens. US does have some programs to help but it's also famously still crushing large groups of its population. I don't know what the solution would be.
    - gamma-male 8y ago
      The country needs to throw money at the problem at this point. This is getting really bad.
herval 8y ago
Legalize Meth? Some of the most utilized “gateway drugs” are already legal (opiods et al). The police rarely arrests homeless drug users, and there’s plenty of foundations to supoort them. I don’t think the issue has to do with legalization... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-drug-use-san-francisco https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-d... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opioid-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opio...
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  Legalization means non-leo intervention such as medical intervention and crises counseling. LEOs aren't interested in drug users because all they can do is arrest them which fixes nothing. The issue with the legalization approach is lack of intervention infrastructure to help them.
  - TylerE 8y ago
    Legalization also means they can use the existing support structures without worrying about being thrown in prison because of what they may have in their pockets.
- __blockcipher__ 8y ago
  Yes, we should legalize drugs like meth. We need to bring "hard" drug use "into the light". That's the whole idea behind safe injection sites - doctors can monitor the opioid user for respiratory depression, and have an opportunity to convince them to enroll in some sort of program. (disclaimer: I'm not GP)
- luka-birsa 8y ago
  Look no further than Portugal and their solution to heroin problem - decriminalization of drugs. This enables NGOs to work with people more easily, removes the stigma, provides access to save consumption sites and safer drugs, allows for funding of new drug-abuse programs (such as better access to anti-opioids for medical staff), etc... it's not hard to figure out that whatever you're doing in the US is not working. I've been to SF and just walking past Tenderloin is not a preety sight. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-dec... - https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-w...
kansface 8y ago
> I think this is why we need to legalize drugs Drugs are already completely legal for the underclass - basically, any and all petty crimes are. Our judges dismiss the citations (~65K in one case!), our juries acquit them, our DA refuses to prosecute them, and our cops don't bother at all anymore.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Legalization would provide some additional things, such as standard dose/strength/purity quality-control, i.e. people would know what they are buying and not get a suprise OD by a fentanyl cut that was not adequately mixed. It would also make it easier for treatment providers to operate, get insurance, take insurance/medicaid or cash payments without tainting themselves with "drug money" and potentially having their assets forfeited. In theory, taxes on the sales could fund treatment/recovery.
  - rmdashrfstar 8y ago
    How about not doing those drugs in the first place? Or is that too much to ask?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dumbfoundded 8y ago
  No drugs are used as selective imprisonment of the underclass and minorities. Even the arrest by itself is a significant disruption to someone's life. Rich people get to use drugs all the time without even any worry of arrest.

burlesona 8y ago

I’m not sure I understand how legalization would help. There’s nothing stopping access or use of these drugs now. Honest question: is any place enforcing drug laws against heroin, and is it making things worse somehow? Intuitively it seems to me like the opposite would be better, if you could not get heroin you couldn’t get addicted to it. But my minimal understanding is it’s too easy to make for enforcement to be practical.

GrumpyNl 8y ago
If they cant get heroine , they will find something else. People need drugs. That's how kingdoms have blossomed.
- taobility 8y ago
  That's funny. The cities have most homeless are the places where Marijuana be legalized states: SF(California) and Seattle (Washington).
  - almostdeadguy 8y ago
    lol I think if you try hard enough you can think of other features of these cities that might be to blame.
scythe 8y ago
I think a slightly less risky version of legalization would be to legalize selling buprenorphine/naltrexone (Suboxone) and extended-release methylphenidate under-the-counter at pharmacies without a prescription.
eckmLJE 8y ago
Legalization opens the door for constructive treatment and therapy options to step in, e.g. injection sites where users can inject safely with clean needles while being exposed to opportunities for treatment. Users have a higher likelihood of accepting help at places like this, versus something like drug court. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic...
- icebraining 8y ago
  To be fair, you don't need legalization for that, just decriminalisation of use, like Portugal did, and which had pretty good outcomes.
  - rmdashrfstar 8y ago
    Correct, decriminalization is the answer, NOT legalization. Handing out free needles to addicts while suggesting that they stop is never going to get an addict off their drug.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Free needles is actually part of multiple successful treatment programs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment Of course, this is in a controlled fashion, and doesn't require legalization.

ncr100 8y ago

Yes it's tragic. Typical SF sight (pile of garbage on sidewalk with e-Scooter, and hypodermic needles, + my cute dog): https://imgur.com/a/vUwkfGd https://imgur.com/a/vUwkfGd. A lot needs to be done to fix this. CNN covered this too (warning: gross injection-wound imagery) https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/27/health/drug-use-san-francisco-streets/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/27/health/drug-use-san-francisco... We need to REPORT the ISSUE with the city - use the "311" phone number to report people behaving suspiciously or who obviously need support. This generates METRICS. Then, the CITY can use the metrics to justify ACTION. Politicians can feel "safe" by responsibly spending $$ beaucoup bucks $$ without fear of voter reprisal come election-time. The PEOPLE can use the metrics to justify SOCIAL CHANGE. Why does the US face this problem? Is it because of our "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality? How can the US adopt a holistic social approach, to accept and respond healthily to the fact that some people have harder times than others? There needs to be a change in attitudes.

assblaster 8y ago
Do you think there might be a cultural issue as well? I think individuals might be hesitant to report offenses because it might make them feel like they're trash-shaming the homeless/neighbors. I know for myself that I hesitate to cause any ruckus, and let people be, but I think the residents of SF take that view to the 10th degree.
- ncr100 8y ago
  SF residents do take extreme stances sometimes, yes. Shaming a disadvantaged person seems unhelpful, to me. Culturally I'm thinking about something which might not be what you were asking about -- the responsibility of the society to care for its disadvantaged or "ill fitting" citizens. US does have some programs to help but it's also famously still crushing large groups of its population. I don't know what the solution would be.
  - gamma-male 8y ago
    The country needs to throw money at the problem at this point. This is getting really bad.

herval 8y ago

Legalize Meth? Some of the most utilized “gateway drugs” are already legal (opiods et al). The police rarely arrests homeless drug users, and there’s plenty of foundations to supoort them. I don’t think the issue has to do with legalization... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-drug-use-san-francisco https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/public-d... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opioid-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/health/san-francisco-opio...

vorpalhex 8y ago
Legalization means non-leo intervention such as medical intervention and crises counseling. LEOs aren't interested in drug users because all they can do is arrest them which fixes nothing. The issue with the legalization approach is lack of intervention infrastructure to help them.
- TylerE 8y ago
  Legalization also means they can use the existing support structures without worrying about being thrown in prison because of what they may have in their pockets.
__blockcipher__ 8y ago
Yes, we should legalize drugs like meth. We need to bring "hard" drug use "into the light". That's the whole idea behind safe injection sites - doctors can monitor the opioid user for respiratory depression, and have an opportunity to convince them to enroll in some sort of program. (disclaimer: I'm not GP)
luka-birsa 8y ago
Look no further than Portugal and their solution to heroin problem - decriminalization of drugs. This enables NGOs to work with people more easily, removes the stigma, provides access to save consumption sites and safer drugs, allows for funding of new drug-abuse programs (such as better access to anti-opioids for medical staff), etc... it's not hard to figure out that whatever you're doing in the US is not working. I've been to SF and just walking past Tenderloin is not a preety sight. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-dec... - https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59eqqk/ungass-portugal-w...

kansface 8y ago

> I think this is why we need to legalize drugs Drugs are already completely legal for the underclass - basically, any and all petty crimes are. Our judges dismiss the citations (~65K in one case!), our juries acquit them, our DA refuses to prosecute them, and our cops don't bother at all anymore.

ams6110 8y ago
Legalization would provide some additional things, such as standard dose/strength/purity quality-control, i.e. people would know what they are buying and not get a suprise OD by a fentanyl cut that was not adequately mixed. It would also make it easier for treatment providers to operate, get insurance, take insurance/medicaid or cash payments without tainting themselves with "drug money" and potentially having their assets forfeited. In theory, taxes on the sales could fund treatment/recovery.
- rmdashrfstar 8y ago
  How about not doing those drugs in the first place? Or is that too much to ask?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dumbfoundded 8y ago
No drugs are used as selective imprisonment of the underclass and minorities. Even the arrest by itself is a significant disruption to someone's life. Rich people get to use drugs all the time without even any worry of arrest.