4 ms·

I don't fully understand from reading the article why this is better than EInk. Seems it just uses 1/4 of the energy but other than that is there more benefits

I don't fully understand from reading the article why this is better than EInk. Seems it just uses 1/4 of the energy but other than that is there more benefits to it?

untog 8y ago
I wouldn't downplay that, it would have a great effect on battery life.
- plorntus 8y ago
  True, it would be interesting to know how much this would improve a typical ereaders battery life considering they are very good already.
- mvid 8y ago
  But wouldn’t eink already be a huge win anywhere battery life is concerned? Having my ereader last for 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks isn’t really all that compelling
swsieber 8y ago
Competition. Eink seems to have stagnated.
- ATsch 8y ago
  My understanding is that E-Ink holds all of the patents and is preventing any further competition or innovation.
  - swsieber 8y ago
    That's my understanding too - if someone can create a screen that competes on energy use, then they occupy the same market and will hopefully force E-Ink to innovate/bring down prices.
- bayindirh 8y ago
  Worse, it's like they are developing something but not releasing it intentionally. Even the fast repaint algorithms are proprietary and not licensed to everyone. My Kobo Glo HD is advertising 50% faster page repaint with the new software. Amazon Kindle is using another algorithm, which is way different. Worse, the algorithms (called waveforms) are just pieces of software which are CPU architecture specific. They even don't port these algorithms between CPU architectures.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    Time for an open source implementation?
    - bayindirh 8y ago
      All of the stuff is possibly patented. I'm not sure how you can create an open source implementation of something patented and protected so well. It's like the present situation of the exFAT.
- chx 8y ago
  Dasung seems to be pushing the envelope -- they claim (and have video as proof) their upcoming Not-eReader has a much better refresh rate than your usual eReader. I am really excited about that device -- not because of the refresh but because it's a full Android tablet and a HDMI monitor. I will use it as a secondary screen for the One Mix Yoga 2S. How handy the first Core CPU, fast (aka non-eMMC) storage 7" laptop to have a HDMI output... I always have an eReader with me because I like to read on transit, so whenever oncall hits (oncall incidents are months apart, so it's not too bad being on call) I can just pull out the tiny laptop, plug the monitor in and I have pretty decent screen real estate for a bit of emergency debugging.
MRPockets 8y ago
I'm not sure I am reading the article correctly, but it looks to me that this new display tech uses less energy than EInk for the initial image creation, but then requires quite a bit more (0.25mJ/cm2 is greater than 0mJ/cm2, though still a minuscule amount) for continued display. I would guess that they probably are able to get a crisper image or perhaps full color with this new display tech while still being optimized for low-energy pull. Edit: Someone else posted this link which shows the Rdot displays do in fact have color capability - https://rdotdisplays.com/technology https://rdotdisplays.com/technology.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  In terms of your comment that it requires a little bit more energy for continued display, this isn't really the full story. The article states that this small update is only required once every 15 minutes, but my guess is the vast majority of E-Ink applications have use cases where the screen is updated more frequently anyway (e.g. for e-readers you are rarely going to spend more than 15 mins on a page). It is relevant for use cases like persistent artwork or ambient always-on displays, but I think for most of the common e-paper use cases it's a moot point.
  - MRPockets 8y ago
    I had not considered that. I definitely "turn the page" much more than once every 15 minutes when I am reading on my ereader. When you take that into consideration, these Rdot screens are roughly 4 times as efficient AND have color as well.
    - plorntus 8y ago
      I couldn't tell from the link but is it only tunable once to a certain chosen colour at manufacture time? Afaik EInk can achieve 3 states (eg, black white and red)
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        It's possible to do full-color e-ink in multiple ways, even if releases have been exceptionally slow.
Eridrus 8y ago
They could keep the same battery life and simply have a smaller battery.
dmitrygr 8y ago
Because it isn't eink. Eink has a monopoly and charges accordingly. Any competition would be a good thing.

I don't fully understand from reading the article why this is better than EInk. Seems it just uses 1/4 of the energy but other than that is there more benefits to it?

untog 8y ago

I wouldn't downplay that, it would have a great effect on battery life.

plorntus 8y ago
True, it would be interesting to know how much this would improve a typical ereaders battery life considering they are very good already.
mvid 8y ago
But wouldn’t eink already be a huge win anywhere battery life is concerned? Having my ereader last for 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks isn’t really all that compelling

swsieber 8y ago

Competition. Eink seems to have stagnated.

ATsch 8y ago
My understanding is that E-Ink holds all of the patents and is preventing any further competition or innovation.
- swsieber 8y ago
  That's my understanding too - if someone can create a screen that competes on energy use, then they occupy the same market and will hopefully force E-Ink to innovate/bring down prices.
bayindirh 8y ago
Worse, it's like they are developing something but not releasing it intentionally. Even the fast repaint algorithms are proprietary and not licensed to everyone. My Kobo Glo HD is advertising 50% faster page repaint with the new software. Amazon Kindle is using another algorithm, which is way different. Worse, the algorithms (called waveforms) are just pieces of software which are CPU architecture specific. They even don't port these algorithms between CPU architectures.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  Time for an open source implementation?
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    All of the stuff is possibly patented. I'm not sure how you can create an open source implementation of something patented and protected so well. It's like the present situation of the exFAT.
chx 8y ago
Dasung seems to be pushing the envelope -- they claim (and have video as proof) their upcoming Not-eReader has a much better refresh rate than your usual eReader. I am really excited about that device -- not because of the refresh but because it's a full Android tablet and a HDMI monitor. I will use it as a secondary screen for the One Mix Yoga 2S. How handy the first Core CPU, fast (aka non-eMMC) storage 7" laptop to have a HDMI output... I always have an eReader with me because I like to read on transit, so whenever oncall hits (oncall incidents are months apart, so it's not too bad being on call) I can just pull out the tiny laptop, plug the monitor in and I have pretty decent screen real estate for a bit of emergency debugging.

MRPockets 8y ago

I'm not sure I am reading the article correctly, but it looks to me that this new display tech uses less energy than EInk for the initial image creation, but then requires quite a bit more (0.25mJ/cm2 is greater than 0mJ/cm2, though still a minuscule amount) for continued display. I would guess that they probably are able to get a crisper image or perhaps full color with this new display tech while still being optimized for low-energy pull. Edit: Someone else posted this link which shows the Rdot displays do in fact have color capability - https://rdotdisplays.com/technology https://rdotdisplays.com/technology.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
In terms of your comment that it requires a little bit more energy for continued display, this isn't really the full story. The article states that this small update is only required once every 15 minutes, but my guess is the vast majority of E-Ink applications have use cases where the screen is updated more frequently anyway (e.g. for e-readers you are rarely going to spend more than 15 mins on a page). It is relevant for use cases like persistent artwork or ambient always-on displays, but I think for most of the common e-paper use cases it's a moot point.
- MRPockets 8y ago
  I had not considered that. I definitely "turn the page" much more than once every 15 minutes when I am reading on my ereader. When you take that into consideration, these Rdot screens are roughly 4 times as efficient AND have color as well.
  - plorntus 8y ago
    I couldn't tell from the link but is it only tunable once to a certain chosen colour at manufacture time? Afaik EInk can achieve 3 states (eg, black white and red)
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      It's possible to do full-color e-ink in multiple ways, even if releases have been exceptionally slow.

Eridrus 8y ago

They could keep the same battery life and simply have a smaller battery.

dmitrygr 8y ago

Because it isn't eink. Eink has a monopoly and charges accordingly. Any competition would be a good thing.