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Hyperloop startup Arrivo is shutting down as workers are laid off
- greenyoda 8y ago> "Remaining employees were informed Friday via text messages" What a rotten way to tell an employee that they just lost their job!
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y agoWhy, from the article, it seems like everybody knew the company was struggling? What is the advantage of delivering in person? In fact, getting such news in person can be more awkward as you have to mask your emotion and pretend in front of them that it is not big deal. What hurts is the fact that they are losing their job, not the fact that the news came by text message.
- smt88 8y agoIt is awkward to fire people and should be. The point of doing it in person is to let the employee know that they’re a human being who is worth the effort of spending 10 min in-person to talk about the lay-off. Believe it or not, some people care whether they were thought of as a person or just a “human resource” on a spreadsheet.
- somethingle234 8y agoI'm not defending this startup specifically. But, in general, I dislike this attitude because: The first point is that it wastes everybody's time. This also applies when a recruiter letting us know the interview result. The recruiters love to make us feel like we are human. I actually feel the opposite. When a recruiter wanted to let me know the interview result, they would send an email to schedule a call. Then, the call would have to happen in the next few days instead. This occurred during the time I was interviewing with 7 companies and trying to juggling deadlines and offers. Just fcking tell me the result. Another point is that this kind of attitude doesn't account for "diversity" of preferences. I admit that different people would want prefer different things. But why do we default to the way that wastes the most time? Just send an email that I am fired and offer to schedule a time to talk. If I want to talk, I'll schedule the time. Please don't see me as a "human resource". But, more importantly, please do NOT waste my time.
- greenyoda 8y agoYes, shutting down a company with 30 employees shouldn't just be some abstract financial transaction to the founders. They should understand that it has significant implications for the people involved.
- syshum 8y agoBelieve it or not some people would prefer to be let go in a text message I would rather not have the Face to Face conversation, I would rather not have to drive all way into the office just for them to tell me I no longer have a job, I would rather save that time. Of course I also view employment different than most people as I do not have an attachment to it, I trade my labor for money, that is all. I do not have personal effects in my office, nor do I intermingle personal things with work things (i.e having personal emails sent to my work address, or signing up for personal accounts with my work address, or using work computers to store personal files) If I am let go this week, I have ample savings to carry me until my next job, and I have nothing at the office I need or want to retrieve. I was looking for a job when I found my current job, and if they no longer desire my labor some other company will. Send me a email detailing any Severance Package, and any other details, and save me the trouble and awkwardness of having to talk to you in person.... Of course Introverted personality with almost no emotions
- smt88 8y ago> Of course Introverted personality with almost no emotions I know that people like you exist and understand your position. However, people running companies should use an approach that works for the lowest common denominator. People like you are somewhat rare.
- netheril96 8y ago> People like you are somewhat rare. Data needed.
- smt88 8y agoI need data that people with "almost no emotions" are less common than people with emotions? I think you're implying the less orthodox scenario and the burden of proof is on you.
- TomMarius 8y agoIt's not just about introverted people with less emotions. There are people who have more emotions that would rather deal with it through text e.g. because they can't stop themselves from shedding tears even though they know it doesn't really matter, and would like to save themselves from the awkwardness. > people running companies should use an approach that works for the lowest common denominator. No. They should use the best approach for that particular person. If they don't know what that is then IMO a respectful e-mail is the best way.
- porpoisely 8y agoIt's a terrible way to learn that you are out of a job. But it's fairly common in the startup scene - especially for startups that fail. Sometimes, they don't even bother sending you the text. You just show up one day to work to see the lights are out and office equipment is gone.
- lowercased 8y agoi came back from a meeting at 3pm. 3:07 - guy in the cube next to me said "wtf, my email to you just bounced back?" 3:09 someone came with a box to escort me out of the building. 3:19 main client calls me on my mobile asking why emails to me are bouncing. i was the only contact and worker on the client's project. HR person wanted me out so bad they just cut me off without transitioning the client services to someone else.
- TomMarius 8y agoWell, did you take the client with you?
- lowercased 8y agoBasically yes. They contacted me after I left and brought their business to me.
- networkimprov 8y agoDisgruntled (ex-)employees are occasionally a hazard to company assets, and execs are afraid of mass disgruntlement :-)
- rascul 8y agoI'd rather have a text message if it saves me fuel and time.
- Animats 8y agoThey may have shut down, but the hype is stil up.[1] This wasn't a "hyperloop" at all. It was a private freeway toll lane scheme with self-driving in the toll lane. Like CALTRANS demonstrated with Demo 97 back in 1997.[2] They had self-driving in dedicated lanes working back then. [1] https://www.arrivo-loop.com/ https://www.arrivo-loop.com/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI
- mc32 8y agoLooking at it, CMU was involved (as well as Cal Berkeley), among academia, but required embedded transponders. This system is still very viable given that it would be cost effective on freeways where most of the miles are driven. It could have been a great transitional technology but DARPA went and distracted everyone with the great challenge and everyone wanted full autonomous navigation in unpredictable terrain...
- busted 8y agoI hadn't seen this before, really cool. Found more information on Wikipedia: > In 1991, the United States Congress passed the ISTEA Transportation Authorization bill, which instructed USDOT to "demonstrate an automated vehicle and highway system by 1997." The Federal Highway Administration took on this task, first with a series of Precursor Systems Analyses and then by establishing the National Automated Highway System Consortium (NAHSC). This cost-shared project was led by FHWA and General Motors, with Caltrans, Delco, Parsons Brinkerhoff, Bechtel, UC-Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon University, and Lockheed Martin as additional partners. Extensive systems engineering work and research culminated in Demo '97 on I-15 in San Diego, California, in which about 20 automated vehicles, including cars, buses, and trucks, were demonstrated to thousands of onlookers, attracting extensive media coverage. The demonstrations involved close-headway platooning intended to operate in segregated traffic, as well as "free agent" vehicles intended to operate in mixed traffic. Other carmakers were invited to demonstrate their systems, such that Toyota and Honda also participated. While the subsequent aim was to produce a system design to aid commercialization, the program was cancelled in the late 1990s due to tightening research budgets at USDOT. Overall funding for the program was in the range of $90 million. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_self-driving_cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_self-driving_cars) 7 years later there was the first DARPA Grand Challenge, where no cars completed successfully. There's a great episode of startup podcast with interviews of the original competitors: https://www.gimletmedia.com/startup/grand-challenge-season-6-episode-7 https://www.gimletmedia.com/startup/grand-challenge-season-6.... It's interesting to wonder whether and how much farther we'd be with self driving cars and computer vision in general if the government had continued to put its resources behind this project.
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- vivekd 8y agoHyper loop tech is something that I simply don't understand. Is maintaining a vacuum inside a close loop really cheaper than electrifying a rail system? I would imagine it takes a lot more energy to decompress and maintain a vacuum in a loop at significant distances than just electrify the rail network.
- rtkwe 8y agoI believe the plan was not total vacuum but only partial to avoid having to pull so far down. Also Hyperloop if it was built/buildable as designed is kind of the step beyond high speed rail.
- macspoofing 8y agoThere's no practical difference between a 'total vacuum' and 'partial vacuum' in this case.
- nixpulvis 8y agoGod, what even is a "total vacuum"?
- prostoalex 8y agoIn theory cheaper to build (laying a dumb pre-manufactured pipe versus electrified rail) and cheaper to operate (build redundant vacuum stations). But yes, the main value prop is for areas with cheap (free?) electricity.
- pojzon 8y ago> laying a dumb pre-manufactured pipe Which is extremely expensive because it has to withstand huge forces trying to crush it like a an empty coke can.. Hyperloop is neighter "cheap" or "easy" to create. Its approx. 10 times as expensive to operate than "Mad-Lev" trains and 100000x as deadly if something goes wrong. Malfunction in electric train means that it has to stop. Malfunction in Hyperloop means all passangers are dead. --- Watch Thunderf00t rant about hyperloop and read his sources. This project is nothing more than a scam to fetch investors money.
- auslander 8y agoIt is an AMP page, bad taste, why not the normal link ? https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/14/18128848/hyperloop-arrivo-furloughs-layoffs-money-trouble https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/14/18128848/hyperloop-arriv...
- gandutraveler 8y agoI personally prefer AMP. it's smoother, cleaner , faster. I know that some in HN community are against AMP (rightly so) but I don't think it's in bad taste for anyone to post a AMP link.
- auslander 8y agoWhat if there is a crash ? In Hyperloop it means vacuum all around, and even on minor accidents you'll die horrible death :D
- joering2 8y agoHonest question... idea was based on Elon Musk's papers, who pre-engineer the thing and even gave it a name. How come he couldn't found it? Last I checked Musk is worth north of $22 Billion dollars, did the Arrivo management try to talk him into investment ??
- smt88 8y agoSomeone might have an idea they think is “good” without wanting to invest in it. “Good idea” is only one part of the recipe. Timing is another huge part. So is having access to the right talent, the right geographical area, etc. I think it’s unrealistic to expect Musk to invest in any hyperloop startup without considering the timing and the team involved.
- sqrut 8y agoHis net worth of $22 billion is in the shares of SpaceX and Tesla he owns, not cash lying around that he can invest. He actually takes loans against his shares to pay for his living expenses.
- macspoofing 8y ago>He actually takes loans against his shares to pay for his living expenses. That's how you want to do it, and that's how everyone with the level of net worth of Musk does it. You don't think, for example, Zuckerberg, sells his FB shares everytime he buys a house in Hawaii.
- Robotbeat 8y agoHis net worth is entirely wrapped up in Tesla and SpaceX. And it's leveraged, too. The exception is now The Boring Company, which long-term is going to try doing Hyperloop.
- _ph_ 8y agoElon Musk never just invests money into other peoples business. If he were to do hyperloop, he would run the engineering himsef - and does he really need another project to drive? That said, there was some talk about Musk looking into Hyperloop himself in the context of one of the Boring companys projects, so we will see.
- ksec 8y ago>The company, started by former Hyperloop One executives, furloughed all employees in November while it sought new funding Slightly off topic: I am seeing a lot more "Startup" having difficulties getting funding than usual. What is happening to VCs and Silicon Valley?
- atomicUpdate 8y agoIt seems they’re actually doing due diligence again.
- lunchbreak 8y agoWhen the Federal reserve lowered interest rates investors had to look for places to invest their money to make a larger return. Now that rates have risen there is not as much money flowing to VCs because there are safer - albeit less profitable - investments
- sxcurry 8y ago“The ethos of the company is trying to switch the paradigm,” BamBrogan told The Verge in 2017. “Mobility and transportation are both words that talk about the ‘getting there.’ And we want to make it so seamless. I don’t want to get to dinner with my friend, I want to be at dinner with my friend.” It seems that anyone who would fund this kind of garbage talk might have more money than sense.
- bfung 8y agoMy read of the article in paraphrases: "(Arrivo)... started by former SpaceX engineer Brogan BamBrogan, who was a co-founder of Hyperloop One." "Two of BamBrogan’s fellow co-founders had resigned..." "One of the co-founders ... left in October, came to Arrivo from construction firm AECOM’s venture wing. Jadon Smith, a fellow SpaceX veteran who has also worked for Lockheed Martin and the CIA, left shortly after, ..." ***"Arrivo was born from of the ashes of BamBrogan’s relationship with Hyperloop One. The co-founder was ousted from Hyperloop One in the summer of 2016 after a clash with fellow co-founder Shervin Pishevar, his brother Afshin Pishevar (who was chief legal officer), CEO Rob Lloyd, and the startup’s board of directors." "...that a member of the company’s leadership brought an axe into the office, displayed it, and also used it to punch holes into a wall. That person was BamBrogan,..." Basically, unstable guy who was ousted form Hyperloop one by the whole board and officers started another, similar company, and trouble again. Except this time, trouble is in charge.
- curtis 8y agoI don't know if BamBrogan is an "unstable guy" or not. But I'm not at all sure your summary "who was ousted form Hyperloop one by the whole board and officers" is accurate based on what was reported at the time. For example, from an article in Wired [1]: > The lawsuit against Hyperloop One includes a security camera image of a man, apparently Afshin Pishevar, holding rope and walking through the office. BamBrogan allegedly found a noose on his desk after complaining about company operations. The axe is the only thing that seems weird, everything else you quoted can easily be explained by the fact that they'd failed to secure more funding and had to shut down even though they didn't want to. Many of us on Hacker News have no doubt experienced this kind of situation first hand. Also I should mention that although Arrivo was started by ex-Hyperloop One people they were definitely not doing a hyperloop system. [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/07/hyperloop-lawsuit-brogan-bambrogan-shervin-pishevar/ https://www.wired.com/2016/07/hyperloop-lawsuit-brogan-bambr...
- bfung 8y agoI total get the stress of getting funding or not - been there myself this past year. But axes and nooses are not normal. What kind of passive-aggressive childish behavior is this? How about sitting down and talk business like adults, state and TALK about each person's perspective of things, and not go psycho? Ousting maybe normal, but if things were normal, the usual news wouldn't be "ousted" - the worse language is usually "parted ways with disagreement".
- jlangenauer 8y agoThe thing with hyperloop that I've not seen solved yet: points/switches. How do you divert the vehicles between two different paths?
- konschubert 8y agoThe problems of long distance rail transport today: Construction permissions, construction cost, operational cost, global vulnerability in case of local operational problems. A Hyperloop solves NONE of these. In fact it would intensify almost all of them. One thing that’s not a problem with rail transport today: Max Speed.
- syntaxing 8y agoIs the drag on a high speed trains mainly inertial or skin (parasitic) or is it pretty even? I would expect it to be mainly inertial since it's moving at such a fast speed. If that's the case, isn't there a lot of different techniques to reduce drag actively and dynamically that they can explore instead of drawing vacuum?
- tartoran 8y agoWould it be feasible to build a system of propellers to take advantage of the non vacuum on the train itself?
- nixpulvis 8y agoCan we just get trains even half as good as in Japan here in the US. A high speed train (not hyperloop speeds) connecting the east coast cities together all the way down to Miami, for example would be huge. Doing Boston to DC in just ~3 hours would be amazing. And would beat the airports easily. Maybe in hindsight I'll be eating my words when they figure out how to actually build these hyper loops and we will all be traveling really fast with them, but I'm a bit more skeptical than that, and a good solution seems to exist already.
- solarkraft 8y agoHyperloops are trains. A major part of the infrastructure needed, land, is the same. So it's not inconceivable to convert between the two.
- nixpulvis 8y agoEven better, if we can just upgrade the bullet trains later! Mayyyybe the idea is it'll be easier to hype a new fancy train to sell to the public, but I think it's foolish. We should start building bullet trains yesterday.
- protomyth 8y agoNeed to buy it its own track since the cargo rails actually pay for themselves and have a lot of other infrastructure tied to them. I get the feeling it would actually be easier to get the land for a hyperloop (cool new thing, quieter, and no chance of hitting someone).
- vertex-four 8y agoYou could have no chance of hitting someone by using fences along track like in the U.K. plus platform edge doors (so that nobody is ever exposed to the railway in any legitimate circumstance), or raised/tunnelled track where maintained fences aren’t a possibility. You could even use drones to monitor your fence, for another cool factor. People would have similar concerns about the visual pollution of Hyperloop vs fencing, and auditory pollution can be solved by correctly maintained sound barriers (even trees!).