8 ms·
Cook My Meat: heat diffusion through meat over time
- MobileVet 8y agoMy go to site when cooking thicker than normal steaks via Sous-vide
- jtms 8y agoSous-vide is just amazing isn’t it? I won’t cook steak any other way since I got my circulator. I have never tried the liquid nitrogen though!
- MobileVet 8y agoYep, totally spoiled now. Can’t eat a steak at a restaurant or anyone’s house after sous-vide. I also have a great marinade that we add to the bag while it cooks. Seriously, it is ridiculous.
- jtms 8y agoMay I enquire about this marinade? :-)
- dagw 8y agoI've had a Sous-vide setup for years and will use it for just about everything, except steaks. No matter what I try I cannot get results anywhere near as good as I get with a simple reverse sear.
- jtms 8y agoOh interesting... I have tried both and had the opposite experience. A steak Sous-vide to rare and then finished on an ultra hot cast iron skillet with oil, butter, fresh herbs comes out better and more consistent than the reverse sear. How long are you leaving your steaks in the water? Are you putting oil, butter, or any aromatics into the sealed bag?
- jakobegger 8y agoWhy do you need the site? I played around with the site, and it doesn't look like it makes a difference if you cook it sous-vide for 20 minutes or 2 hours? (I've never cooked anything sous-vide)
- mmanfrin 8y agoSous vide needs way more than 20 minutes, but you are correct that once it's reached the target internal temp, the time doesn't much matter (beyond going too far). Typically, about 90 minutes is a good spot for almost all temps with steak, a little more if it's a thick steak.
- Scaevolus 8y agoIt's quadratic. You need four times longer for a steak that's twice as thick.
- dzhiurgis 8y agoI've certainly overcooked more than a few steaks due to cooking too long, not too hot. Also, it seems it sometimes depends on meat quality (not just the cut). Or maybe it was the sear that I tend to overdo.
- menage 8y agoFor tender cuts of meat (like a good steak) it might be true that temperature is what matters. But cooking sous vide for 12-24 hours can turn a tough cut into incredibly tender juicy meat - the connective tissue needs time as well as temperature to break down.
- hirundo 8y agoIn a series of highly (un)scientific experiments the 'Sous Vide Everything' youtube channel concluded that you arguably improve the texture by cooking meat longer by sous-vide, but the flavor deteriorates. I reproduced this result at home. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpFuaxD-0PKLolFR3gWhrMw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpFuaxD-0PKLolFR3gWhrMw
- amluto 8y agoI use: http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
- groestl 8y agoWith sous-vide, I'm always wondering a little bit about food safety (BPA and friends). Is there any reason to be concerned or is it just FUD?
- th0ma5 8y agoThis link gets into food safety aspects. Sous-vide is technically a pasteurization process in a way. http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
- lbotos 8y agoI think he meant specifically of "cooking in plastic": https://www.packagingdigest.com/food-packaging/most-food-cans-no-longer-use-bpa-in-their-linings-2018-02-20 https://www.packagingdigest.com/food-packaging/most-food-can...
- compumike 8y agoWe built a somewhat better thermodynamic model into the Pantelligent iOS and Android apps -- i.e. user would select 1" thick steak, medium, and then we'd use the real temperature signal to adjust the cooking time. The key fact this simulation is missing is that the outermost layer of the food quickly becomes dehydrated, at which point its thermal conductivity drops dramatically. This is good! It allows for much more uniform internal temperatures. Edit: we did a lot of thermal simulation using my CircuitLab simulation engine (https://www.circuitlab.com/ https://www.circuitlab.com/) -- circuit models for thermal simulation are common, where voltage represents temperature, and current represents heat flow. The simulation engine allows for arbitrary behavioral elements like algebraically-defined resistors, which lets you model this "outer layer dries out" behavior quickly.
- nimos 8y agoIs Pantelligent not available anymore? I was actually just looking for it as a possible xmas gift a couple weeks ago.
- compumike 8y agoJust found an old GIF animation from a finite element simulation of cooking: https://imgur.com/a/ZX1n5Wx https://imgur.com/a/ZX1n5Wx (The "meat" flips in the middle when it disappears for a frame)
- thinkingkong 8y agoI'm impressed but disappointed the "reverse sear" is missing. If you haven't tried, it, it's a pretty amazing way to cook a steak and it scales up to lots of steaks at the same time. It's awesome [1] https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/03/how-to-reverse-sear-best-way-to-cook-steak.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/03/how-to-reverse-sear-best...
- QuotedForTruth 8y agoJust make your own. Or click "as text" and paste this in: 3cm Steak starts at 23°C 110°C and 110°C for 2:00 23°C and 230°C for 0:15 230°C and 23°C for 0:15 23°C and 23°C for 20:00
- n_plus_one 8y ago2 minutes of cooking for reverse sear? In practice, a 3cm steak would probably need 20-25 minutes at 100C before sear. This model seems way off at this temp range, but seems closer for sous vide.
- QuotedForTruth 8y agoYeah I just flipped the sear then cook low and then adjusted it to medium rare. It seemed short to me too.
- halbritt 8y agoI tend to do something around 75-80c for an hour on a 3-4cm thick steak. The slower one goes, the easier it is to make up for errors in probe placement, multiple steaks, etc.
- sgc 8y agoThe chart on that page reads: Temperature and Timing for Reverse-Seared Steak For 1 1/2–Inch Steaks in a 250°F (120°C) Oven Doneness Target Temperature in the Oven Final Target Temperature Approximate Time in Oven Rare 105°F (40°C) 120°F (49°C) 20 to 25 minutes Medium-Rare 115°F (46°C) 130°F (54°C) 25 to 30 minutes Medium 125°F (52°C) 140°F (60°C) 30 to 35 minutes Medium-Well 135°F (57°C) 150°F (66°C) 35 to 40 minutes
- yunzo 8y agoIf you put a thick steak (like 50 cm) it freezes Firefox for like 4 seconds, while Chrome freezes for 1 second. Real world benchmarks :D
- Skunkleton 8y agoBill: check out the new optimizations I added to our JS engine! Sally: Yeah, but did you check for regressions in the thick steak benchmark?
- sigmar 8y agoIt breaks when you switch to Fahrenheit and use the sous vide + liquid nitrogen recipe. It autoconverts -200°C to -328°F which then errors "too low" (for some reason?)
- gretch 8y agoI got the same error I wonder if it's because "-273 C = 0 kelvin = absolute zero" which was coded as a simple check on the field > -273 without units
- hammock 8y agoI'm looking for a recipe that maximizes the term Net Meat Score = [(browning+med rare) - (medium+well)] while also enforcing steak=3cm, Rare=0%, Raw=0, Char=0, and steak starting at either 0C or 23C. Note that you have to let the meat rest for 10+ minutes to really let it finish (the default settings cut it off to early). The best I have gotten under normal conditions is: Net Meat Score of 40, by doing: Steak starts at 0C, 3:20 @190C , flip, 1:40 @190C. Yields 17% brown, 23% well, 7% medium and 53% med rare. Chose 190C because olive oil. Interested if anyone has found something better.
- scott00 8y agoSous vide with no sear maximizes that: 24 hours at 57C on both sides. It yields 100% medium rare.
- hammock 8y agoFair, but I was looking for a crust :)
- Jorge1o1 8y agoThis is a good recipe. I tried for an hour to beat it but I couldn't. I tried an oven at 100 and then some searing at 175, but I ended up getting too much well-done.
- kevinmchugh 8y agoI don't know how to model this, but I can pretty much get this using a searzall. sous vide to desired temperature, briefly drop in ice water to lower surface temperature, then hit with a torch in bursts as desired
- LoSboccacc 8y agonitrogen free! 3cm Steak starts at 0°C 280°C and 20°C for 0:30 20°C and 280°C for 0:35 60°C and 60°C for 30:00 20°C and 20°C for 3:00 yelds 73% medium rare, 7% medium, 7% well and 13% browned take it with a grain of salt tho because the simulator does have some ugly quantization effects, for example: 3cm Steak starts at 0°C 280°C and 20°C for 0:30 20°C and 280°C for 0:35 60°C and 60°C for 25:00 20°C and 20°C for 3:00 reducing the oven pass causes the high temperature skillet passes to burn the meat and yelds 7% charred
- dekhn 8y agoOnce, Nathan Myhrvold spoke at Google about Modernist Cuisine and I asked him how to make the ultimate BBQ ribs (he won some competition). He said "sous vide, liquid nitrogen, then deep fry". Glad to see this site includes sous vide + liquid nitrogen.
- khuey 8y agoThis technique is sometimes called "cryo frying".
- Zigurd 8y agoOnce upon a time I ordered a pizza at a pub in Glasgow. The barman plucked s pizza out of the freezer with tongs and dropped in in the Fryalator. It was less horrifying than it appeared to be.
- paulie_a 8y agoFor ribs I follow a modified 321 method, 3:30 on, 1:30 in tinfoil on, 1 unwrapped. Sauce them 10-20 minutes before they are done just to carmelize it a bit. They are still tender but with A bit of toothiness left.
- dekhn 8y agoyou're describing classic ribs (not sous vide, liquid N, or deep frying), right? It's funny you mentioned that because the other point Mhyrvold and I discussed was using aluminum foil to tightly wrap the ribs during cooking- eliminating the water vapor that forms around the meat, which contributed to barbeque stall. Should speed up cooking without negatively affecting the results by 2-3 hours.
- paulie_a 8y agoI was describing my method of BBQ in response to the gp. deep frying sous vide, liquid n or whatever other method is not bbq. Just like grilling is not BBQ. The style has a fairly specific meaning. If your ribs don't sweat three times in the process over six hours, you are doing it wrong. Foiling them locks in the moisture. It absolutely doesn't eliminate it. 6 hours, low and slow. Or its not passable as BBQ
- dunham 8y agoIt's not clear to me what they're using for the surface heat transfer coefficient, which I think would be different for a skillet vs sous vide. (Or even, in their case, Side 1 = skillet vs side 2 = air.) But I only have a cursory knowledge of the physics involved. For the sous vide case, I've tried implementing Douglas Baldwin's model on Observable. It seems to match the "SousVideDash" results, but this is my first foray into solving PDEs, so use with caution. https://beta.observablehq.com/@dunhamsteve/sous-vide-calculator https://beta.observablehq.com/@dunhamsteve/sous-vide-calcula... If anyone here does know the physics / math, I'd like more details on the $\beta$ "geometric factor" that Baldwin uses. I couldn't find mention of it in books and wonder if it is something you derive (say transforming coordinate systems) or something determined experimentally.
- btrettel 8y agoFluid dynamicist here. The $\beta$ notation appears to be a convenient way to write the Laplacian assuming that the temperature is homogeneous in the angular direction. The values are exact for certain coordinate systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_operator#Three_dimensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_operator#Three_dimensi...
- person_of_color 8y agoMy question is how to brown/caramelize meat with only an induction cooktop? After I put my chicken, I just see all the water come out and the chicken starts boiling in the pan :(
- pitaj 8y agoYou might need a hotter pan with more butter/oil.
- bigbadgoose 8y agoWhat is the cut? You might be buying brined chicken (salt solution). If it was previously frozen, and not thawed out this might be the problem. Maybe you are "crowding" the pan? When you put too much protein in the pan too close together, the meat steams instead of searing. It needs space for the moisture to air out. Or you might have lots of surface moisture. Based on your scant description, I'm guessing this might be your issue. Regardless, try this next time: - line a flat plate with paper towels - take your protein out of the packaging, and pat dry on all sides with other paper towels - place protein on the lined plate - turn over and replace towels after 12 or so hours. to avoid this, and the lining, you can put the protein on a rack with a towel underneath so air can circulate under the meat - put back in your fridge overnight on lowest shelf, uncovered (fridge is a very dry environment) - next day, surface should be very dry - take protein out 45 minutes before cooking it - super hot pan + high smoke point oil + don't crowd it + dry protein surface == nicely seared note: super hot + nonstick is toxic. use cast iron, or stainless that works with induction. induction should get hot enough to sear at 500-700 degrees
- person_of_color 8y agoChicken breast diced into cubes, using Rice Bran oil. I will try those tips. My problem sounds like crowding.
- ska 8y agosalted liberally + open rack in the fridge for about a day gives you both dry surface and well seasoned. sometimes called a "dry brine"
- bigbadgoose 8y agoThis model needs density, moisture content, and temperature gradient at initial cook. Prob a second model for bone-in cuts.
- bcheung 8y agoWould be interesting to see sous vide and torches incorporated into this. I usually "sous vide" at a lower temp and then finish with a weed burning torch (aka flame thrower). I find using a large and very hot flame is necessary to get that crisp outside without overcooking it. The handheld chef torches don't get enough searing to cooking ratio. Fat and connective tissue is another factor that makes things interesting. What's the best technique to soften up the fat and connective tissue without denaturing the protein?
- sbierwagen 8y agohttps://www.amazon.com/Searzall-Torch-Attachment-Small-Stainless/dp/B00L2P0KNO https://www.amazon.com/Searzall-Torch-Attachment-Small-Stain...
- cityiguana 8y agoI'm one of the 3 MIT students (now MIT alumnae) who coded this over 5 years ago now. It's popped up around the Internet again in the past year or so, which is neat but also a little cringey, because it forces me to look at code I wrote when I was a lot newer to programming than I am now. One person commented about a better simulator that they'd developed, which I am certain exists. This simulator was developed for an EdX class called the Science of Cooking. Although we tested it and found it to be largely accurate (in one of the more delicious code testing sessions I've ever attended), it was designed primarily to illustrate the various reactions that occur at the molecular level, rather than to provide actual cooking guidance. Also, it seems that some of you are having problems where the program crashes your browser. Unfortunately, that's not entirely avoidable as the whole application is client-side javascript, and does some moderately complex calculations for heat diffusion. Obviously this would not be the approach I would take if I were to rewrite the program today... If anyone wants to take a look at the source code, here is the original git repo: https://github.com/laurabreiman/science-of-cooking https://github.com/laurabreiman/science-of-cooking. Cheers everyone!
- lmilcin 8y agoGreat work! I had a similar idea a decade ago when I wrote a calculator to solve for perfect cheesecake. The idea was to have thick New York style cheesecake with perfect texture top to bottom yet have caramelized top and bottom (no water bath cheating!)
- wiz21c 8y agoCooking the meat is cool. But, being someone of french gastronomical culture, I to to lean to Fernand Point saying : "Du beurre ! Donnez-moi du beurre ! Toujours du beurre !" (basically, butter, butter, butter). There was a recipe from G. Ramsay where it show to first sear the steak in oil, then, finish it with a bit of butter. It adds flavor and prevent the butter to burn. I also tend to use my finger to test if a steak is fine. I'm no expert, but it works 80% of the time (to get a good steak). Now I must admit that sous-vide gives a lot more control and helps to reach the medium cook on a much wider part of the meat.
- ZeWaren 8y agoI threw away the finger technique, and now I use an instant thermal probe. Works 100% of the time. +1 for the beurre, but don't forget to buy more for the sauce! It's all about the sauce.
- wiz21c 8y agoYeah but the finger makes you look like the real deal :-) Another thing with that technique : rest the meat long enough. Makes a huge difference (not necessary with sous-vide/low temperature I think) And contrary to what I've read, good precision cooker and vacuum machine (dunno how to call it in English) can be quite pricey. A few hundreds euro down here, so not cheap at all.
- tk75x 8y agoFor ~$100, you can get a sous vide machine that attaches to most pots and a set of reusable zipper bags with a valve built in and hand pump for vacuum sealing. I highly recommend trying it out as the steak and fish I have tried cooking so far all come out very tasty and well cooked.
- httpz 8y agoDoes this work for sous vide and reverse sear? Water's thermal conductivity is 1/10th of iron and much smaller for air(oven).