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Have you guys tried Linux on the desktop recently? There's a host of folks in my org running Ubuntu on Dell XPS laptops. Issues do arise, but they're pretty r

Have you guys tried Linux on the desktop recently? There's a host of folks in my org running Ubuntu on Dell XPS laptops. Issues do arise, but they're pretty rare. I made the switch from Mac almost two years ago and it's been great.

crispinb 8y ago
Yep, on the XPS this year (the last time a new Ubuntu install a couple of weeks ago). Many problems. Some fixable, but a poorer use of my time than running or sailing or any number of three-dimensional activities I choose over screen flatland when not working.
- halbritt 8y ago
  I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues, but subjectively it feels to me like there are few. The UI is decent and usable. For me the dealing with the few issues that arise is a better use of my time than wrestling with things like Docker on Mac, homebrew, ancient python, and weird VPN issues that seem to pop up with every upgrade.
  - crispinb 8y ago
    No doubt every case is different, so there's no contradiction here. If it's efficient for you, great. Ubuntu wasn't worth it for me. The UI is fine, but there's too much that just doesn't work, or works poorly, and I'm not going to do the research involved to overcome these things. I don't really believe Microsoft is going to do a linux as a consumer-grade replacement for Windows, but if it did, I suspect the issues I have would go away. Hardware vendors would write drivers, missing software pieces would be filled in, etc. [Edit: I committed the cardinal sin - or is it a common convention? - of commenting on an article before reading it. A mistake in this case - I realise now the article is just silly speculative hand-waving]
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    I still cannot to this day get pip working correctly on my mac -- it is eternally damned to never run python correctly, and if it wasn't for rvm and shell magic, the same would be true for ruby.
    - JetSpiegel 8y ago
      That doesn't have anything to do with Linux Desktops, though. Have you tried to use Ruby or Python on Windows? It's even worse.
      - halbritt 8y ago
        Python generally sucks less on Linux desktops, mainly because they don't ship with an old broken python.
- didibus 8y ago
  Give openSuse Tumbleweed a try, with KDE Plasma. I've been running it on a 10 year old XPS 13, smooth as butter. Or KDE Neon if you'd rather have an Ubuntu core. I heard good things about it but didn't try.
  - sho 8y ago
    Sigh. No offense but it's comments like this that remind me why no, I haven't tried desktop linux recently. No, I am not going to mess around trying KDE Plasma or SomethingElse Tumbleweed or OpenWuffe SnufflePuss XL or any other of the billion permutations of half-baked shit which might or might not work. I am mid-career, I have money, I have little time and even less interest in fucking around with any of that just to get a working computer that meets my needs. I want a big company, who I trust will follow through, to take my money and solve my problems with The Desktop Linux™. I need office apps, I need music apps, I need image processing, I need some sort of integrated cloud offering, and I'd like a unix-like back end. I'll pay money for this. I will not pay in time. Apple does this for me currently; MS is possibly the only possible other company which could take on such a challenge, hence the interest in the idea. It's sort of ironic to me that one of the main reasons I like linux on the server - which I use exclusively - is because I perceive it as "just working" in a way that MS servers never do. The situation is entirely inverted on the desktop - OSX, and to a lesser extent Windows, "just work" and the solutions to all of my problems are, at most, an install and possibly a few dollars away. Linux is very far from that currently, and until it gets a whole lot closer - and it will probably take a big company to actually do it - that door is closed to me, and people like me, for the foreseeable future.
    - curiousgal 8y ago
      > and it will probably take a big company to actually do it The lack of a company controlling Linux is exactly why it's Linux. I am surprised that someone who is mid-career, has money, and little time doesn't know that.
      - sho 8y ago
        Of course I know that. I'm explaining why the lack of somebody capable taking responsibility for providing a "curated" linux with a world-class UI and backing it up with deep and broad app and services ecosystem means that it won't ever be acceptable to the vast majority of desktop users, including me. Canonical has totally failed to deliver this. Maybe someone else could, maybe not. We're just speculating here.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  The question is are they just "changing OS" issues or are they specific to Ubuntu/Linux distros? Changing from Win7/8 to Win10 was a massive headache (I don't use it daily, just admin for friends and family).
  - halbritt 8y ago
    For Ubuntu on XPS 15 there are a couple of specific issues. Gnome has a weird UI bug that causes input to hang. This manifests in Wayland. The fix requires an entire re-architecture of GDB which isn't going to happen for gnome 4.x. Works fine on X11, which is why I think Ubuntu shifted to Wayland and then back to X11, but at this point, X11 is no closer to dying. Nvidia hardware doesn't like to behave well in Linux. One has to get just the right driver, and the correct kernel options to prevent hangs and poor standby behavior. However, I'm not sure this is terribly different than my experience with Nvidia drivers on Windows.
- Lio 8y ago
  I have an evaluation DeV Edition XPS 13 to try out. So far I’ve tried it out with Ubuntu 18.04, 18.10, Fedora and Intel Clear Linux. There’s not much set up involved in getting any of these installed and working. The only issues I've seen have been, the trackpad’s a bit jumpy and I still don’t have a HiDPI and 1440 mix working nicely together under Gnome. Currently I’m trying out Arch which is great as a learning tool. I still have an old Mac for day to day work but I’ll be permanently switching to Linux soon I think.

crispinb 8y ago

Yep, on the XPS this year (the last time a new Ubuntu install a couple of weeks ago). Many problems. Some fixable, but a poorer use of my time than running or sailing or any number of three-dimensional activities I choose over screen flatland when not working.

halbritt 8y ago
I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues, but subjectively it feels to me like there are few. The UI is decent and usable. For me the dealing with the few issues that arise is a better use of my time than wrestling with things like Docker on Mac, homebrew, ancient python, and weird VPN issues that seem to pop up with every upgrade.
- crispinb 8y ago
  No doubt every case is different, so there's no contradiction here. If it's efficient for you, great. Ubuntu wasn't worth it for me. The UI is fine, but there's too much that just doesn't work, or works poorly, and I'm not going to do the research involved to overcome these things. I don't really believe Microsoft is going to do a linux as a consumer-grade replacement for Windows, but if it did, I suspect the issues I have would go away. Hardware vendors would write drivers, missing software pieces would be filled in, etc. [Edit: I committed the cardinal sin - or is it a common convention? - of commenting on an article before reading it. A mistake in this case - I realise now the article is just silly speculative hand-waving]
- jimmy1 8y ago
  I still cannot to this day get pip working correctly on my mac -- it is eternally damned to never run python correctly, and if it wasn't for rvm and shell magic, the same would be true for ruby.
  - JetSpiegel 8y ago
    That doesn't have anything to do with Linux Desktops, though. Have you tried to use Ruby or Python on Windows? It's even worse.
    - halbritt 8y ago
      Python generally sucks less on Linux desktops, mainly because they don't ship with an old broken python.
didibus 8y ago
Give openSuse Tumbleweed a try, with KDE Plasma. I've been running it on a 10 year old XPS 13, smooth as butter. Or KDE Neon if you'd rather have an Ubuntu core. I heard good things about it but didn't try.
- sho 8y ago
  Sigh. No offense but it's comments like this that remind me why no, I haven't tried desktop linux recently. No, I am not going to mess around trying KDE Plasma or SomethingElse Tumbleweed or OpenWuffe SnufflePuss XL or any other of the billion permutations of half-baked shit which might or might not work. I am mid-career, I have money, I have little time and even less interest in fucking around with any of that just to get a working computer that meets my needs. I want a big company, who I trust will follow through, to take my money and solve my problems with The Desktop Linux™. I need office apps, I need music apps, I need image processing, I need some sort of integrated cloud offering, and I'd like a unix-like back end. I'll pay money for this. I will not pay in time. Apple does this for me currently; MS is possibly the only possible other company which could take on such a challenge, hence the interest in the idea. It's sort of ironic to me that one of the main reasons I like linux on the server - which I use exclusively - is because I perceive it as "just working" in a way that MS servers never do. The situation is entirely inverted on the desktop - OSX, and to a lesser extent Windows, "just work" and the solutions to all of my problems are, at most, an install and possibly a few dollars away. Linux is very far from that currently, and until it gets a whole lot closer - and it will probably take a big company to actually do it - that door is closed to me, and people like me, for the foreseeable future.
  - curiousgal 8y ago
    > and it will probably take a big company to actually do it The lack of a company controlling Linux is exactly why it's Linux. I am surprised that someone who is mid-career, has money, and little time doesn't know that.
    - sho 8y ago
      Of course I know that. I'm explaining why the lack of somebody capable taking responsibility for providing a "curated" linux with a world-class UI and backing it up with deep and broad app and services ecosystem means that it won't ever be acceptable to the vast majority of desktop users, including me. Canonical has totally failed to deliver this. Maybe someone else could, maybe not. We're just speculating here.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
The question is are they just "changing OS" issues or are they specific to Ubuntu/Linux distros? Changing from Win7/8 to Win10 was a massive headache (I don't use it daily, just admin for friends and family).
- halbritt 8y ago
  For Ubuntu on XPS 15 there are a couple of specific issues. Gnome has a weird UI bug that causes input to hang. This manifests in Wayland. The fix requires an entire re-architecture of GDB which isn't going to happen for gnome 4.x. Works fine on X11, which is why I think Ubuntu shifted to Wayland and then back to X11, but at this point, X11 is no closer to dying. Nvidia hardware doesn't like to behave well in Linux. One has to get just the right driver, and the correct kernel options to prevent hangs and poor standby behavior. However, I'm not sure this is terribly different than my experience with Nvidia drivers on Windows.
Lio 8y ago
I have an evaluation DeV Edition XPS 13 to try out. So far I’ve tried it out with Ubuntu 18.04, 18.10, Fedora and Intel Clear Linux. There’s not much set up involved in getting any of these installed and working. The only issues I've seen have been, the trackpad’s a bit jumpy and I still don’t have a HiDPI and 1440 mix working nicely together under Gnome. Currently I’m trying out Arch which is great as a learning tool. I still have an old Mac for day to day work but I’ll be permanently switching to Linux soon I think.