7 ms·

I'm in the same boat and have the same thoughts. I'm essentially trapped on OSX, and have been for a decade - sure, with enough pain and effort I might be able

by sho 8y ago

I'm in the same boat and have the same thoughts. I'm essentially trapped on OSX, and have been for a decade - sure, with enough pain and effort I might be able to kinda-sorta get by on linux, but in practise the barrier is just too high. And windows has never really even been an option until fairly recently. I'd love to see real competition in the OS space for people who need both a decent app ecosystem and open source developer tools.

crispinb 8y ago
> I'm essentially trapped on OSX, and have been for a decade Me too until this May, when it was past time for my aging MB Pro to retire. I really couldn't justify a new one given I don't even like them any more (the Touchbar was the coup de grace). Hence a Dell XPS 15, running Windows 10. I won't pretend the latter is anywhere near as good as OSX (less stable, less consistent UI, generally lower quality apps), but it does manage all the hardware well & gets the job done. WSL makes it livable-with. I'd prefer linux though for its window manager choices, single-rooted filesystem, lack of nags & faster file io (among other things). > I'd love to see real competition in the OS space for people who need both a decent app ecosystem and open source developer tools. Quite.
- zhte415 8y ago
  >I'd prefer linux though for its window manager choices, single-rooted filesystem, lack of nags & faster file io (among other things). Why not install Linux, and run Windows under a VM? Or if locked to the Windows install, run Linux under a VM?
  - crispinb 8y ago
    I've never seriously considered working primarily in a VM. For performance reasons, I suppose, but given how far the VM scene has come, that may well be an out of date prejudice. Maybe Linux under Windows (it would have to be that way round) would work. Worth considering, yes.
    - vbezhenar 8y ago
      You'll get snapshots with VM. That's awesome. While you could setup them with Linux (not easy, AFAIK, but doable with some tinkering), for Windows it's a game changer. You could install anything and just roll back. Don't like that Windows update? Roll back.
- whyonearth 8y ago
  Are you saying Linux won't work out-of-the-box on an XPS 15? Because Dell literally sells those pre-loaded with Ubuntu, even saves you $100.
  - crispinb 8y ago
    I don't think there's a developer edition of the 9570 model (there's no linux driver for the fingerprint scanner for example), and in any case we rarely get the Dell developer editions here in Australia. I am certainly saying that a fresh install of Ubuntu (and a reasonable attempt to get over the initial issues eg. using a respin available on github) has too many problems for me to either live with or spend time investigating. Others may have more tolerance for fiddling around with OSs, but I've done my dash with that kind of stuff.
    - whyonearth 8y ago
      I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. That aside, I'd be interested in the specifics of the "too many problems" that you anticipate on supported hardware (which includes most configurations of the XPS and Precision).
      - crispinb 8y ago
        > I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. Maybe. But that has nothing to do with what I wrote. > I'd be interested in the specifics Would you? Or would you like to gather factoids in pursuit of your belief that everyone must make the choices you make? > that you anticipate on supported hardware Not "anticipate". Experienced, after installation (more than once). It was more trouble than it was worth to me. > on supported hardware As I say, I don't think there's a developer edition of the 9570. There isn't an extant linux driver for the fingerprint scanner, which surely there would be if Dell preinstalled linux on this model.
        8y ago
halbritt 8y ago
Have you guys tried Linux on the desktop recently? There's a host of folks in my org running Ubuntu on Dell XPS laptops. Issues do arise, but they're pretty rare. I made the switch from Mac almost two years ago and it's been great.
- crispinb 8y ago
  Yep, on the XPS this year (the last time a new Ubuntu install a couple of weeks ago). Many problems. Some fixable, but a poorer use of my time than running or sailing or any number of three-dimensional activities I choose over screen flatland when not working.
  - halbritt 8y ago
    I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues, but subjectively it feels to me like there are few. The UI is decent and usable. For me the dealing with the few issues that arise is a better use of my time than wrestling with things like Docker on Mac, homebrew, ancient python, and weird VPN issues that seem to pop up with every upgrade.
    - crispinb 8y ago
      No doubt every case is different, so there's no contradiction here. If it's efficient for you, great. Ubuntu wasn't worth it for me. The UI is fine, but there's too much that just doesn't work, or works poorly, and I'm not going to do the research involved to overcome these things. I don't really believe Microsoft is going to do a linux as a consumer-grade replacement for Windows, but if it did, I suspect the issues I have would go away. Hardware vendors would write drivers, missing software pieces would be filled in, etc. [Edit: I committed the cardinal sin - or is it a common convention? - of commenting on an article before reading it. A mistake in this case - I realise now the article is just silly speculative hand-waving]
    - jimmy1 8y ago
      I still cannot to this day get pip working correctly on my mac -- it is eternally damned to never run python correctly, and if it wasn't for rvm and shell magic, the same would be true for ruby.

by sho 8y ago

crispinb 8y ago

> I'm essentially trapped on OSX, and have been for a decade Me too until this May, when it was past time for my aging MB Pro to retire. I really couldn't justify a new one given I don't even like them any more (the Touchbar was the coup de grace). Hence a Dell XPS 15, running Windows 10. I won't pretend the latter is anywhere near as good as OSX (less stable, less consistent UI, generally lower quality apps), but it does manage all the hardware well & gets the job done. WSL makes it livable-with. I'd prefer linux though for its window manager choices, single-rooted filesystem, lack of nags & faster file io (among other things). > I'd love to see real competition in the OS space for people who need both a decent app ecosystem and open source developer tools. Quite.

zhte415 8y ago
>I'd prefer linux though for its window manager choices, single-rooted filesystem, lack of nags & faster file io (among other things). Why not install Linux, and run Windows under a VM? Or if locked to the Windows install, run Linux under a VM?
- crispinb 8y ago
  I've never seriously considered working primarily in a VM. For performance reasons, I suppose, but given how far the VM scene has come, that may well be an out of date prejudice. Maybe Linux under Windows (it would have to be that way round) would work. Worth considering, yes.
  - vbezhenar 8y ago
    You'll get snapshots with VM. That's awesome. While you could setup them with Linux (not easy, AFAIK, but doable with some tinkering), for Windows it's a game changer. You could install anything and just roll back. Don't like that Windows update? Roll back.
whyonearth 8y ago
Are you saying Linux won't work out-of-the-box on an XPS 15? Because Dell literally sells those pre-loaded with Ubuntu, even saves you $100.
- crispinb 8y ago
  I don't think there's a developer edition of the 9570 model (there's no linux driver for the fingerprint scanner for example), and in any case we rarely get the Dell developer editions here in Australia. I am certainly saying that a fresh install of Ubuntu (and a reasonable attempt to get over the initial issues eg. using a respin available on github) has too many problems for me to either live with or spend time investigating. Others may have more tolerance for fiddling around with OSs, but I've done my dash with that kind of stuff.
  - whyonearth 8y ago
    I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. That aside, I'd be interested in the specifics of the "too many problems" that you anticipate on supported hardware (which includes most configurations of the XPS and Precision).
    - crispinb 8y ago
      > I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. Maybe. But that has nothing to do with what I wrote. > I'd be interested in the specifics Would you? Or would you like to gather factoids in pursuit of your belief that everyone must make the choices you make? > that you anticipate on supported hardware Not "anticipate". Experienced, after installation (more than once). It was more trouble than it was worth to me. > on supported hardware As I say, I don't think there's a developer edition of the 9570. There isn't an extant linux driver for the fingerprint scanner, which surely there would be if Dell preinstalled linux on this model.
      - 8y ago

halbritt 8y ago

Have you guys tried Linux on the desktop recently? There's a host of folks in my org running Ubuntu on Dell XPS laptops. Issues do arise, but they're pretty rare. I made the switch from Mac almost two years ago and it's been great.

crispinb 8y ago
Yep, on the XPS this year (the last time a new Ubuntu install a couple of weeks ago). Many problems. Some fixable, but a poorer use of my time than running or sailing or any number of three-dimensional activities I choose over screen flatland when not working.
- halbritt 8y ago
  I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues, but subjectively it feels to me like there are few. The UI is decent and usable. For me the dealing with the few issues that arise is a better use of my time than wrestling with things like Docker on Mac, homebrew, ancient python, and weird VPN issues that seem to pop up with every upgrade.
  - crispinb 8y ago
    No doubt every case is different, so there's no contradiction here. If it's efficient for you, great. Ubuntu wasn't worth it for me. The UI is fine, but there's too much that just doesn't work, or works poorly, and I'm not going to do the research involved to overcome these things. I don't really believe Microsoft is going to do a linux as a consumer-grade replacement for Windows, but if it did, I suspect the issues I have would go away. Hardware vendors would write drivers, missing software pieces would be filled in, etc. [Edit: I committed the cardinal sin - or is it a common convention? - of commenting on an article before reading it. A mistake in this case - I realise now the article is just silly speculative hand-waving]
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    I still cannot to this day get pip working correctly on my mac -- it is eternally damned to never run python correctly, and if it wasn't for rvm and shell magic, the same would be true for ruby.