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Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2
- wallace_f 8y agoThe contract is 297 million for $7,500 recruits, or $39,000 per potential recruit.
- beager 8y agoThat’s an insane percentage of the mean annual salary of all these recruits, astronomically higher than just about any contingency firm.
- sakarisson 8y agoAccenture. Why am I not surprised?
- robertsd247 8y agoI'm not. If you want to spend millions and get no deliverables..Accenture is your answer. If you want projects late and over budget...Accenture is your answer. If you want to quickly build your resume with performing little work...Accenture is your answer.
- jermaustin1 8y agoI've worked with Accenture at various companies over the years, they have always had pretty decent teams, now the amount of overhead provided with a contract (delivery lead, delivery manager, client manager) is kind of overkill, but the developers we've brought on from them have been pretty good, but sticklers for scope and SOWs, even though we were paying hourly and not fixed.
- kanox 8y agoShould have gone with Blackwater instead
- hopefulengineer 8y agopretty depressing that you're better off buying politicians rather than actually building a good business if you want to get rich
- wallace_f 8y agoYea. Even in aerospace and defense. Pretty important industries to long-term safety and success of our country. This led us to the F35 debacle and state of orbital launch services.
- danny_taco 8y agoThis is par for the course for Accenture. I joined Accenture to work on a very interesting development project for a fortune 10 a few years ago. A project that could have been done in 6-8 months by a competent team in a reasonable budget. But being Accenture, it turned into a mess of epic proportions with the client threatening to sue. In the end we ended up delivering this piece of software that I wouldn't touch again with a 10-foot pole, which didn't even satisfy most of the original business requirements. The exec from the client that hired us changed the narrative to his stakeholders to make this appear as a big success, and the project even got a lot of coverage on the internal newsletter when in reality it was just a smash and grab of a dozen or so million dollars from a client that got swindled so bad that they wouldn't even admit it. I ended up being mostly on the bench for the rest of my stay at Accenture while watching every single one of the individuals that worked on that project leave for better pastures. A year in after the project started no one that worked on it was in Accenture anymore, except me. I was conflicted if I wanted to leave because I would hit the gym for two hours every day at around 2-3pm, then go home. My mornings were full of reading blogs, working on personal projects and just gossiping by the water cooler. In the end I decided to leave since I missed doing real work and working with a competent team. That year was one hell of a ride for me.
- walrus01 8y agoOne of the reasons why CBP loves the current administration, their new policies effectively lifted any limits on overtime. For a person with ten years seniority, if they're bored and want some OT, border patrol guys can sit around in a pickup truck listening to the radio clocking those 150% wage hours. It is not uncommon for a CBP or ICE officer, with OT, to be in the $130k+ salary range now. And these are in places with relatively low cost of living, compared to a big city, like Ferry County, WA.
- astura 8y agoI don't think it's fair to judge the "average" cost of living of a CBP officer, all ports of entry are staffed by CBP and the US has ports of entry all over the county. In fact, some of the busiest ports of entry are at airports located in major metropolitan areas with high costs of living.
- mkirklions 8y agoHahaha that's awful. Hope that since Trump did this, that liberals can see how ineffective government is. Nope, guess not? HN isnt as smart as they act.
- sideshowb 8y agoGovernment can do things well, or badly Private sector can do things well, or badly I don't see what people find so hard to understand about this
- robertsd247 8y agoWhen private sector fails, it goes out of business and other competent businesses take over. When government fails it spends more tax dollars and does the same thing over again, expecting a different result.
- how_many_times 8y ago>> When private sector fails, it goes out of business and other competent businesses take over. Unless it is a bank, or an important tool for surveillance (e.g. Facebook in 2020). In which case losses are irrelevant and it is ultimately bailed out by the government.
- rchaud 8y agoAnd in reality, there is always an "unless" caveat: - Farming subsidies - auto bailouts - Bank bailouts - No bid defense contracts I don't understand why discussions on HN always go back to speaking in terms of economic absolutes. Those do not exist in reality, because the world is made of numerous complex, interdependent relationships between different economic entities. Economics is not a science in which you can measure out indicators into petri dishes and observe them in a controlled environment. Quoting Milton Friedman like scripture simply belies a glaring misunderstanding of how the world works.
- ck425 8y ago
- j_m_b 8y ago“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government.” -Milton Friedman
- porpoisely 8y agoI personally enjoyed this quote from Ken Burns' Civil War. "You can sell anything to the government at almost any price you've got the guts to ask". -- Jim Fisk ( War Profiteer )
- 0xcde4c3db 8y agoThat's why many mature governments have an office whose job it is to care about those things, e.g. [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Offi...
- LarryDarrell 8y agoIt's much easier to quote Milton Friedman and wave your hands, though.
- Mary-Jane 8y agoTrue, but you're not taking into account the government budgeting model. Organizations in government budgets' are based on last year's budget. If the OU spends last year's budget or more, their budget is increased (because they account for inflation). If they spend less, their budget is decreased. In other words, there is a built in incentive to spend money, and anyone can find ways to justify spending money "to improve their OU". GAOs merely verify the paperwork is in order. Don't misunderstand me. This isn't an argument against government; it's an argument against this budgeting model. There has to be a way they to structure private sector budgeting efficiency into public organizations.
- perfunctory 8y agoWe should see this for what it really is - hidden unemployment benefit for people "working" at Accenture. Or hidden basic income, call it whatever you want. Our level of economic development and accumulated wealth is so great that without these sorts of "stimulus" the majority of the population would be unemployed or work just a couple of days per week [0]. And the conspiracy theorist inside me suspects that the government cannot allow it. With so much free time at their hands people might get creative and get some strange ideas and so on. [0] http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf
- astura 8y agoThe most appropriate word I think is "corporate welfare"
- spectrum1234 8y agoExcept that this raises prices. For those on the outside who still need the product or service, the best "stimulus" is efficiency. How can inefficiency help poor people in the long run? Your logic doesn't pass the common sense test.
- robertsd247 8y agoIn other news, Obama paid millions for a broke health exchange website coded by people in a 3rd world country whose day job was tending to livestock.
- robertsd247 8y agoYou can downvote this all you want...that IS what happened and you all know it.
- oo0shiny 8y ago1. [citation needed] 2. How is this relevant to this article?
- sctb 8y agoYou're breaking the guidelines a whole lot, and we ban accounts that keep on like this. Could you please stop, read, and start following them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- moviuro 8y agoDid NPR finally stop tracking its users? It didn't display its usual GDPR banner! However, those still doubting should probably use: https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=675923576 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=675923576
- dalbasal 8y ago"CBP had paid Accenture Federal Services approximately $13.6 million of a $297 million contract to recruit and hire 7,500 applicants" - $40k per hire
- consp 8y ago30-40k hiring bonuses to recruiters are not uncommon. Especially if it is the only income and competitive in nature. Doing this under a fixed contract is however.
- sizzzzlerz 8y agoWhat you have to ask yourself is who, in the Trump crime family, is making bank off of this.
- exabrial 8y agoGovernment is nearly always the least effective use of a citizen's money. Huge discussion on HN a few days ago about the IRS barely making $7 for every $1 spent. Before than we discussed the astronomically comical cost of healthcare.gov. It's good that people are demanding social change and action; the answer should bbe private charity and community leadership, as the current system just funnels money into contractors pockets.
- askaboutit 8y agoI would say government run and government funded is actually best. Government applied, government funded, contractor executed is garbage and a rort.
- _dark_matter_ 8y ago> Government is nearly always the least effective use of a citizen's money These kinds of broad, factless statements do not deserve to be on HN. > Huge discussion on HN a few days ago about the IRS barely making $7 for every $1 spent Are you suggesting that the totality of taxes we pay to the IRS are only 1/7 of the IRS cost? What are we... paying for roads with? The military? Is the entire government going down in flames solely because of the IRS?
- exabrial 8y agoWhy, because the facts don't conveniently align with your world view? Because you completely misunderstood my comment? Here, take a moment to read: https://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2017/01/11/PH84769 https://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2017/0...
- jermaustin1 8y agoSo the IRS makes a 700% return on investment, and you are suggesting that means government is wasteful? Sounds like more of the government needs to run like the IRS. Also trusting stories published through PR Newswire is unwise if not corroborated by other journals. PR Newswire is a pay for distribution service. Anyone can publish through it.
- jaclaz 8y agoAs a side-side note: >Border Patrol jobs with the CBP have been notoriously difficult to fill, in large part because of the polygraph exam applicants are required to undergo. The AP reported that 2 out of 3 applicants fail the exam Does that mean that the polygraph is extremely restrictive or that 66% of applicants are liars? I mean, even if it is not applicable/valid in court, I believe most federal and government agencies use them internally, there was something on HN some time ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18431683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18431683 So, set aside how accurate it is, a number of people can pass it to get (or keep) a federal job, so it might be that the "quality" of people attemptng to enroll to CBP is "lower"?
- ryanmercer 8y ago>Does that mean that the polygraph is extremely restrictive or that 66% of applicants are liars? Polygraphs aren't remotely scientific or even accurate. False positives are EXTREMELY common, simply being nervous that you're hooked up to a strange contraption can cause false positives. Police departments often use them for hiring too, the Indiana State Police does for example.
- astura 8y agoWhile true, that doesn't explain why the CBP polygraph fail rate is twice that of other police departments. (The CBP itself is a police department) https://apnews.com/7e5bc0d98dd849a88043d8c40a74e56f https://apnews.com/7e5bc0d98dd849a88043d8c40a74e56f
- jaclaz 8y agoYep, that is the question/doubt. I personally believe that the polygraph is a senseless test, still when it is used to screen a "large" number of people more or less in the same field (LEO, federal agences, army or similar), it should give a similar number of positives and negatives. If it is used only to verify if applicants are prone to "cracking under theatrical pressure", the result means that applicants for CBP are much more susceptible to that than most applicants to other police/security or similar jobs.
- oftenwrong 8y agoReminds me of this FEMA contracting failure: >FEMA Contract Called for 30 Million Meals for Puerto Ricans. 50,000 Were Delivered. >For this huge task, FEMA tapped Tiffany Brown, an Atlanta entrepreneur with no experience in large-scale disaster relief and at least five canceled government contracts in her past. FEMA awarded her $156 million for the job, and Ms. Brown, who is the sole owner and employee of her company, Tribute Contracting LLC, set out to find some help. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/fema-contract-puerto-rico.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/fema-contract-puerto-r...
- forgot-my-pw 8y agoHow do people like these not get prosecuted?
- FlyMoreRockets 8y agoProbably protected by the powerful friends that gave them the contract in the first place.
- oftenwrong 8y agoFEMA pays on delivery. If you fail to fulfil a contract, the FEMA keeps its money. In this case, that leaves the contractor holding the bag, as they subcontracted out for all of the work. Unfortunately, the contractor can dispute the contract termination in a lawsuit. Lawsuits are expensive, so this may force FEMA into a settlement. This happens all the time with government contracts. People that know the system can exploit it. The FEMA contracting officer bears much of the blame for this outcome. The company had no prior experience in disaster relief, had a track record of failing to fulfil contracts, and did not have sufficient funds to fulfil the contract. These are all things that should have been considered before awarding the contract.
- charlesdm 8y agoHow does a government agency assign a $150m+ contract to a one man band? If anything, the fault is more on the government than it is on the person bidding for the contract.
- bobjordan 8y agoAccording to this article, the contract amount to be paid to Accenture is USD $297,000,000 to help the Government hire 7,500 employees. Nearly USD $40,000 USD per hire. Definitely makes me think about going all in on turning pure Libertarian.
- rchaud 8y agoI'm interested to know what part of this story sparked your comment about Libertarianism? Was it the use of taxpayer dollars to expand a border force that didn't seem understaffed to anyone but the Pres? I ask because the other part, namely government contracting work to the "more efficient" private sector sounds perfectly in keeping with Libertarian principles.
- bobjordan 8y agoSpending $40,000 USD per hire for a border patrol job, strikes me as inefficient, regardless of whether or not the private sector or Government is doing the hiring. But most likely, what sparked my comment about libertarianism, was simply the fact I'd visited the Libertarian party website earlier today at https://www.lp.org/ https://www.lp.org/ and happened to be thinking about their tagline "Libertarian Party | Minimum Government. Maximum Freedom." when I read this article.
- rchaud 8y agoI agree that $40k/hire cost is absurd. That being said, I hope you'll agree that actions matter more than words. Plenty of organizations make virtuous claims in public, and behave differently in private. Political slogans are no exception. I would encourage you to look at their political representatives' voting records and ask yourself if they are being consistent with their professed beliefs. The absolutism of Libertarian theory doesn't translate well to politics and economics, as those require building relationships and cutting deals to make things happen.
- QML 8y agoLibertarian as in you don’t believe it’s possible to scale government while keeping it efficient?
- pesmhey 8y agoThe initial payment of ~$2000/recruit sounded reasonable, and then you realize that the total expenditure was for $40,000/recruit. Even if Accenture Federal Services delivered, is that price tag an accurate reflection of the true value of recruiting agents? What part of the recruitment process could warrant such a high price?
- schnevets 8y agoI'd say this summarizes post-recession America pretty well. A demand for jobs that no one seems qualified and willing to do, and a bloated paycheck to the keepers of some "analysts" who scramble to keep doing what doesn't work.
- etxm 8y agoOk, but we’re they the right hires?
- pjc50 8y agoWorth comparing with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18679767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18679767 , where we actually had something resembling a discussion rather than just descending into government-is-bad tropes. There are really three separate questions: 1) Whether the thing is worth doing at all 2) Having decided to do it, is there enough commitment and leadership to actually doing it properly? 3) Given the desire to do it properly, is that best served by doing it in-house through a line management system of control, or outsourcing it and running it through a contract management system of control?