11 ms·

Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

303 points by open-source-ux 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
TrainedMonkey 8y ago
But exercise does: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20160324/Exercise-slows-down-cognitive-decline-in-older-adults.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20160324/Exercise-slows-do...
- hndamien 8y ago
  My armchair analysis suspects that it is chemicals like cortisol will degrade the brain over time, while dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin will help preserve it. So stress and anxiety bad, exercise good.
  - my_usernam3 8y ago
    Completely off topic, but I appreciate you properly citing your source. I hate when people make absolute claims off no factual evidence. Even just "I heard ______ " is a perfectly acceptable comment imo.
    - hndamien 8y ago
      I am presuming that you are not being sarcastic. I am being totally transparent that this is nothing more than an internal hunch based on some very amateur time investment is hardly related fields. Literally nothing worth taking note of except to spur conversation from somebody who may know more. That said, boldy professing incorrectly seems to spur more good debate on the Internet than boldy professing my claim is not backed by anything.
  - pas 8y ago
    cortisol? why not glutamate ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
    - hndamien 8y ago
      Good point. Also stress related among many other contributors.
- mjfl 8y ago
  I got my genes sequenced recently and it turns out I have a mutant gene that predisposes me to Alzheimers - APOE e4. it's a cholesterol shuttling gene! Very important to keep low fat, it effects your entire body.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    I hadn’t heard that body fat composition affected Alzheimer’s risk. Out of curiosity, do you have a reference?
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      Body fat is a risk for multiple disease. The general idea is that whenever viruses enter the adipose tissue they are hard to reach by the immune system. We dont really understand yet what causes Alzheimer but now there is suspicion of a viral link.
      - whatshisface 8y ago
        There is another hypothesis making the rounds that obesity is linked to chronic metabolic stress and eventual damage (so far uncontroversial), which is linked to many separate diseases.
      - jodrellblank 8y ago
        internet articles point fingers at long term insulin resistance, e.g. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201609/avoiding-alzheimer-s-disease-could-be-easier-you-think?collection=1095953 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/20160... the receptors responsible for escorting insulin across the blood-brain barrier can become resistant to insulin, restricting the amount of insulin allowed into the brain. While most brain cells don’t require insulin in order to absorb glucose, they do require insulin in order to process glucose. [..] Despite swimming in a sea of glucose, brain cells in people with insulin resistance literally begin starving to death. [..] Which brain cells go first? The hippocampus is the brain's memory center. Hippocampal cells require so much energy to do their important work that they often need extra boosts of glucose. While insulin is not required to let a normal amount of glucose into the hippocampus, these special glucose surges do require insulin, making the hippocampus particularly sensitive to insulin deficits. This explains why declining memory is one of the earliest signs of Alzheimer’s, despite the fact that Alzheimer’s Disease eventually destroys the whole brain. researchers have discovered that Alzheimer’s Disease is preceded by DECADES of gradually worsening glucose hypometabolism. 2012 study showed that a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet improved memory in people with “Mild Cognitive Impairment” (Pre-Alzheimer’s Disease) in only six weeks. https://coconutketones.com/ https://coconutketones.com/ - Dr Mary Newport's work on coconut oil and low carb diet with her husband with early onset alzheimers and dementia, intended to provide an alternative ketone source of fuel for the brain instead of glucose. Grain and sugar elimination: that’s huge, because it’s anti-inflammatory. A big driver of cognitive decline and dementia is inflammation. By going grain-free sugar-free we drop inflammation dramatically. If you were to track inflammatory measures like C-reactive protein or interleukin-6 or tumor necrosis factor (TNFα) or other measures, you would see them drop precipitously, as inflammation recedes, and risk for Alzheimer’s with it. - https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/11/preventing-cognitive-decline-dementia/ https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/11/preventing-cognitive-...
- gpvos 8y ago
  There were some research results a few years ago that indicated that dancing does that very well (and particularly the role of follower in partner dancing, because you have to react quickly to small cues). Don't have a link ready, sorry. I'd be curious if that has been reproduced yet.
  - a_wild_dandan 8y ago
    Exercise is most effective in slowing mental decline when done consistently. I'd wager that's why dancing is so efficacious -- you're mixing vigorous exercise with fun, and folks are more likely to consistently exercise when it's fun.
- gus_massa 8y ago
  In this study, they detect a correlation between exercise and mental ability, but it is not clear which one is the cause and which one is the effect. Perhaps people with very advanced mental decline can't follow any class of exercise. >> Our results suggest that moderate to intense exercise may help older people delay aging of the brain, but more research from randomized clinical trials comparing exercise programs to more sedentary activity is needed to confirm these results.
  - 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
    It could also be that factors present earlier in life influence exercise habits and cognitive decline on different time scales. For example, it's not a huge leap to imagine that some inborn deficit in neurotransmitter function could promote both of these outcomes without necessarily leading to any clinical diagnosis.
- tracker1 8y ago
  I'd be curious as to any correlation with sugar and/or refined oil intake.
tannerc 8y ago
This is a fascinating share, if not for the results—"None of the measures of intellectual engagement was linked to the speed of decline of people's mental abilities over time"—but for the study itself. "Many people also dropped out of the study. Only 96 of the 498 people recruited took part in the last round of testing. The researchers lost touch with 13 people, while 57 people died and 332 declined to take part." Do studies like this often reach the front page of HN?
- amelius 8y ago
  You can ask the same question about the NHS.
  - jodrellblank 8y ago
    You mean "Does the NHS often reach the front page of HN?"? .. I don't get it, why would you ask that?
    - amelius 8y ago
      Comment was about the research reaching the news section of the NHS.
      - arctangent 8y ago
        www.nhs.uk/news exists specifically to debunk false health claims (I'm tech lead for this site)
        BossHogg 8y ago
        Thought this was a great site. Then I looked for the rss feed. Still good but...
        arctangent 8y ago
        We syndicate our content in a different way: https://developer.api.nhs.uk/ https://developer.api.nhs.uk/
Angostura 8y ago
I really enjoy the write-ups that the NHS does for these news analysis pieces. Informative, well pitched voice - in my opinion. Trustworthy
- open-source-ux 8y ago
  I agree. The A-Z of health conditions is also excellent: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/
buboard 8y ago
i wish they 'd suggest "programming" instead of puzzle solving. i mean, it's a form of puzzle solving, but it s also useful in real life.
- whoisjuan 8y ago
  "Doesn't slow down mental decline"... They're not suggesting anything. They are summarizing the conclusion of the study which determined that intellectual engagement may not offset age related cognitive decline.
  - dang 8y ago
    > Did you even read the article? Please edit such swipes or nasty tropes out of your comments here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We're trying for a bit better than internet median in HN discussions.
    - whoisjuan 8y ago
      Done. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "swipe or nasty trope". The guideline just says to avoid this type of insinuations.
      - dang 8y ago
        Thanks for the edit. It helps.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - buboard 8y ago
    > But the study does seem to show that life-long intellectual engagement and problem-solving is linked to higher mental functioning, so it's not the case that giving your brain a workout is a waste of time, especially if you find those activities enjoyable and fulfilling. i did read it
joshuarcher 8y ago
Whenever the news reports findings of a new study, they should format it this way..
sn41 8y ago
Another activity that I have heard as slowing down mental decline is dancing: https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/08/29/dancing-can-reverse-the-signs-of-aging-in-the-brain/ https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/08/29/dancing-can-reverse-... Regardless of this dubious study, I will continue to solve crosswords. Cryptic crossword solvers were prized in Bletchley Park, since it was seen as evidence of lateral thinking. [1] I used to look down upon quick crosswords since they were too direct, but lately I have tried to time myself solving quick crosswords, and I find that they can be challenging as well when tried in a genuine quick mode - they involve jogging the memory at a very fast rate. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11151478/Could-you-have-been-a-codebreaker-at-Bletchley-Park.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11151478/C...
p1necone 8y ago
Seems to me that even if it didn't slow down the "rate" of mental decline, starting from a higher point because of "brain training" for want of a better term would still be good, no?
- hmahncke 8y ago
  Yes, but you don't really get to pick your starting point - in the study, cognitive function at age 11 predicted crossword puzzle use and eventual cognitive decline. So if you're fortunate enough to be sharp at age 11 (thanks to your genes, your parents, and your environment), then you're in great shape. But that's not a solution that can be applied to all of us.
- weego 8y ago
  That makes the assumption that any kind of brain training raises the bar in a way that mental decline then diminishes. Overall mental degeneration could be a parallel process to cognitive ability that 'blocks' its application. Until all vectors are tested and analysed any assumption is as right or wrong as any other.
hmahncke 8y ago
This is a nice study, and confirms earlier work by Tim Salthouse (University of Virginia [1]), looking at more than a thousand people (cross-sectionally), and evaluating their cognitive function and crossword puzzling activity. At every age, people who did more crossword puzzles had better cognitive activity - but the rate of cognitive decline was identical regardless of crossword puzzle use. This was interpreted (as in the current study) as showing that people who are sharper do more crossword puzzles - but doing crossword puzzles doesn't make a person shaper or change the rate at which a person becomes less sharp. [1] PDF: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5237/69252dd1d49cbd473844c004336920e0087f.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5237/69252dd1d49cbd473844c0...
ww520 8y ago
They ought to have a study on whether playing fast paced video game shows down mental decline.
- blazespin 8y ago
  Or speeds it up
- sandos 8y ago
  Not related to memory, but I have had trouble with balance issues for years, and I'm only 38 years old. Now I got a Xbox One X recently, which means, of course, increased gaming. I'm not 100% yet but it does seem to have almost wiped my balance issues. I was always feeling nauseous and tired when, for example, moving my head too quickly sideways, or simply driving a car. Its not outside the realm of possibility, my hypothesis is that I am very visually dependent when it comes to my sense of balance. Lots of fast-moving visual stimuli without any input to my balance organ probably tunes my brain to not use my eyes as much. There is also something called "Roll adaptation" which is rolling the head under visual stimuli that does not match. Maybe I should roll my head when gaming for even better effect...
newname2018 8y ago
You can ask dang why I'm still banned but anyway , I'll say from personal experience that once a person is even in the beginning of AZ the" puzzles" thing doesn't work anymore and the person afflicted is kinda aware of this more or less some of the time and it just causes them to realize it even more. Oh yes HN mods you can silence this username but you should realize that you can't silence the truth. Hey dang why don't you get a real job like the rest of us
markrages 8y ago
... but Lumosity!
djsumdog 8y ago
There's been a long standing idea that dementia and Alzheimer can be prevented by mental exercise. It intuitively seems like a good hypothesis, but as this an other studies in the comments show, it's not true. It is difficult to really test for this though, because you can't control for people's amount of mental exertion, gaming, learning and puzzle solving over their entire lives, so we substitute things like "knows more than one language fluently," something we can objectively measure and see if there's a correlation. This particular study used a group of people that took the same intelligence test when they were young. There's been some research that shows some older people's brains have trouble metabolizing glucose and other sugars, and that diets that push ketosis in older people (higher fats, coconut oil, less cereal/crabs) can help some people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooNuOKsa1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooNuOKsa1Q
george-marshall 8y ago
This is a test
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
Chess seems to show the opposite. In particular speak with literally just about any older grandmaster and you'll invariably find their mental faculties are still in great shape. Of course there's always a correlation != causation problem that plagues all sort of social studies. This observation does not necessarily mean that becoming a grandmaster would slow mental decline. It could simply be something within the individuals that drives them to become grandmasters that itself is what staves off the decline. Ultimately I'm not entirely sure what the point of science along these lines even is. The big risk is you notice a correlation to something and assume causation. You then start working to try to pursue that end in cases where the correlation is good - or avoid that end in cases where the correlation is bad. And you spend immense energy and resources doing this, only to find that in the end there was no actual causation at all and you just spent immense amounts of time, energy, and resources doing nothing. Even worse is that sometimes you might pursue the correlation and falsely end up at the desired end thus assuming causality when none exists. Maybe the best example of this is human/animal sacrifice of ancient civilizations. Those sacrifices were not baseless from their perspective. What undoubtedly happened is that at one point a civilization has e.g. a bad harvest. They feel they must have wronged the gods, so they end up sacrificing something. And, completely by coincidence, the next harvest is bountiful. Lo and behold, you now have centuries of human and animal sacrifice in a model where you can ignore any negative outcomes by suggesting it simply means that you didn't sacrifice enough. Keep ramping up the sacrifices and indeed eventually you'll get a good harvest, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the sacrifices you've made.
- gnode 8y ago
  > It could simply be something within the individuals that drives them to become grandmasters that itself is what staves off the decline. Or it could just be survival bias. If your mental faculties are in decline, then you would be disinclined to continue competing in chess. I can imagine people would stop competing at that level long before they completely lost their marbles.
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    People generally reach grandmaster when they're very young and I'm not restricting my statement to only those that continue to play in international tournaments. One may retire from high level competitive chess, but people rarely give up the game altogether.
anongraddebt 8y ago
FWIW, I told a good friend to get her dementia-diagnosed father on a schedule of daily Dual N-Back training using open source programs (e.g. Brainworkshop). She asked his neurologist how effective this would be and he basically said, "it's the only cognitive training that could do anything." Not only is Dual N-Back a great mental workout, but it will also put you to sleep pretty quickly if you set the parameters such that the task is sufficiently taxing. Here's one that should make you tired within 15-20 mins. if you're just starting out: (1) Set N-Back to 3 (for every category of items that you have to remember, you are trying to remember the repeats in a string that have two items in between) (2) Set number of item categories to 3 (e.g. Shapes, Sounds, Spatial/Placement, and Colors) (3) Up the baseline 'randomness' factor or level of pattern obscurity. I cannot overstate how important (2) is. So many people in the N-Back community care about maxing out (1). IMHO, the real benefits come when you get (2) maxed out while keeping an N-Back of 3. THEN, work your way to up to higher levels of N-Back. You have a one in a billion short-term memory capacity and don't feel sleepy yet? Okay, throw in some multiple mentalism exercises while literally in the middle of doing the N-Back training. Ex.: visually 'recite' the alphabet backwards in your head with the letters being in mirror image format (so from 'behind'). You'll find it impoasible to get even remotely close to 80% accuracy if you turn the various parameters up high enough, and you'll have an easy way of falling asleep.
- sethrin 8y ago
  That seems like quite a strong claim. This would need to be supported by extraordinary empirical evidence. It's rather difficult for us to independently verify your friend's neurologist's word. Do you perhaps have some scientific studies to hand which might demonstrate the efficacy of this treatment?
  - anongraddebt 8y ago
    My claim is only that a single neurologist said if any cognitive training might help, then N-Back training would be it. I have no other evidence other than my friend's testimony. Say the neurologist did say this, what's the implication? That you have defeasible justification for trying N-Back training, on recently diagnosed dementia patients, if you've already made the decision that cognitive training is worth pursuing (along with other treatments).
jspash 8y ago
As an aside, the NHS website is an absolute joy to use. From the legibility of the type to the navigation, also the style of writing is generally top notch IMHO. Regarding the design, I remember when Google products gave me a similar feeling. Sadly, with "Material Design" usability has sunk to some weird place where I continually ask "where do i click? what CAN i click? stop sliding things around!" in frustration. Apologies for going off topic (and the mini rant).
- thom 8y ago
  Worth pointing out that a lot of the good work NHS Digital do is inspired[1] by approach that the Government Digital Service did on other public service sites[2]. Over the last 5-10 years, basically every UK government website I've had to click on has slowly become sane and usable because of the GDS's work. 1: https://digital.nhs.uk/blog/transformation-blog/2018/defining-digital-standards-for-the-nhs https://digital.nhs.uk/blog/transformation-blog/2018/definin... 2: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard
  - qwerty456127 8y ago
    Other governments all over the world should really copy that...
    - kace91 8y ago
      Absolutely. I can tell apart my country's official government sites from scams because the legit one will give warnings about it being potentially dangerous... Certificates that won't work, services that can only be used during business hours, and similar dumbfounding behaviour is all over the place.
  - MarkMc 8y ago
    I agree - I'm writing code to submit VAT returns online and am impressed by the clear documentation and REST API provided by HMRC: https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs...
siliconunit 8y ago
Lots of highbrow denial:D /sarcasm
djpowell 8y ago
The whole of the NHS 'Behind the Headlines' blog is fantastic btw; taking newspaper stories, looking at the studies behind them and sifting out the truth from the sensationalism.
stevewillows 8y ago
Anecdotally, my neighbor is in her early 80s and has lived a very sheltered life. Recently she did a memory test and nearly aced it (28/30). Since then my typically... well, clueless... neighbor has taken an interest in learning how to use stuff like her TV, stereo, talking about better ways to do things around the yard, etc. Even with my own mother, the true benefit of puzzles is not that its exercising her brain or making her smarter, but its the confidence that goes along with being successful in these things. I think that goes a long way, even though it may be just a step above sugar pills. For me, I play Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection (mobile) every day. I have a cycle I go through. If I'm having a bad day, a good win at Galaxies gets me back into the 'you can do this' mindset. [1] https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
raphar 8y ago
I really liked the shared article. In contast to what other news sources publish, this article links the original paper, reviews the metodology, gives some introductory explanations on the subject and provides all sorts of 'further reading' resources. Really enjoyed it, thanks for sharing!

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

But exercise does: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20160324/Exercise-slows-down-cognitive-decline-in-older-adults.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20160324/Exercise-slows-do...

hndamien 8y ago
My armchair analysis suspects that it is chemicals like cortisol will degrade the brain over time, while dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin will help preserve it. So stress and anxiety bad, exercise good.
- my_usernam3 8y ago
  Completely off topic, but I appreciate you properly citing your source. I hate when people make absolute claims off no factual evidence. Even just "I heard ______ " is a perfectly acceptable comment imo.
  - hndamien 8y ago
    I am presuming that you are not being sarcastic. I am being totally transparent that this is nothing more than an internal hunch based on some very amateur time investment is hardly related fields. Literally nothing worth taking note of except to spur conversation from somebody who may know more. That said, boldy professing incorrectly seems to spur more good debate on the Internet than boldy professing my claim is not backed by anything.
- pas 8y ago
  cortisol? why not glutamate ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
  - hndamien 8y ago
    Good point. Also stress related among many other contributors.
mjfl 8y ago
I got my genes sequenced recently and it turns out I have a mutant gene that predisposes me to Alzheimers - APOE e4. it's a cholesterol shuttling gene! Very important to keep low fat, it effects your entire body.
- stochastic_monk 8y ago
  I hadn’t heard that body fat composition affected Alzheimer’s risk. Out of curiosity, do you have a reference?
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Body fat is a risk for multiple disease. The general idea is that whenever viruses enter the adipose tissue they are hard to reach by the immune system. We dont really understand yet what causes Alzheimer but now there is suspicion of a viral link.
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      There is another hypothesis making the rounds that obesity is linked to chronic metabolic stress and eventual damage (so far uncontroversial), which is linked to many separate diseases.
    - jodrellblank 8y ago
      internet articles point fingers at long term insulin resistance, e.g. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201609/avoiding-alzheimer-s-disease-could-be-easier-you-think?collection=1095953 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/20160... the receptors responsible for escorting insulin across the blood-brain barrier can become resistant to insulin, restricting the amount of insulin allowed into the brain. While most brain cells don’t require insulin in order to absorb glucose, they do require insulin in order to process glucose. [..] Despite swimming in a sea of glucose, brain cells in people with insulin resistance literally begin starving to death. [..] Which brain cells go first? The hippocampus is the brain's memory center. Hippocampal cells require so much energy to do their important work that they often need extra boosts of glucose. While insulin is not required to let a normal amount of glucose into the hippocampus, these special glucose surges do require insulin, making the hippocampus particularly sensitive to insulin deficits. This explains why declining memory is one of the earliest signs of Alzheimer’s, despite the fact that Alzheimer’s Disease eventually destroys the whole brain. researchers have discovered that Alzheimer’s Disease is preceded by DECADES of gradually worsening glucose hypometabolism. 2012 study showed that a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet improved memory in people with “Mild Cognitive Impairment” (Pre-Alzheimer’s Disease) in only six weeks. https://coconutketones.com/ https://coconutketones.com/ - Dr Mary Newport's work on coconut oil and low carb diet with her husband with early onset alzheimers and dementia, intended to provide an alternative ketone source of fuel for the brain instead of glucose. Grain and sugar elimination: that’s huge, because it’s anti-inflammatory. A big driver of cognitive decline and dementia is inflammation. By going grain-free sugar-free we drop inflammation dramatically. If you were to track inflammatory measures like C-reactive protein or interleukin-6 or tumor necrosis factor (TNFα) or other measures, you would see them drop precipitously, as inflammation recedes, and risk for Alzheimer’s with it. - https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/11/preventing-cognitive-decline-dementia/ https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/11/preventing-cognitive-...
gpvos 8y ago
There were some research results a few years ago that indicated that dancing does that very well (and particularly the role of follower in partner dancing, because you have to react quickly to small cues). Don't have a link ready, sorry. I'd be curious if that has been reproduced yet.
- a_wild_dandan 8y ago
  Exercise is most effective in slowing mental decline when done consistently. I'd wager that's why dancing is so efficacious -- you're mixing vigorous exercise with fun, and folks are more likely to consistently exercise when it's fun.
gus_massa 8y ago
In this study, they detect a correlation between exercise and mental ability, but it is not clear which one is the cause and which one is the effect. Perhaps people with very advanced mental decline can't follow any class of exercise. >> Our results suggest that moderate to intense exercise may help older people delay aging of the brain, but more research from randomized clinical trials comparing exercise programs to more sedentary activity is needed to confirm these results.
- 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
  It could also be that factors present earlier in life influence exercise habits and cognitive decline on different time scales. For example, it's not a huge leap to imagine that some inborn deficit in neurotransmitter function could promote both of these outcomes without necessarily leading to any clinical diagnosis.
tracker1 8y ago
I'd be curious as to any correlation with sugar and/or refined oil intake.

tannerc 8y ago

This is a fascinating share, if not for the results—"None of the measures of intellectual engagement was linked to the speed of decline of people's mental abilities over time"—but for the study itself. "Many people also dropped out of the study. Only 96 of the 498 people recruited took part in the last round of testing. The researchers lost touch with 13 people, while 57 people died and 332 declined to take part." Do studies like this often reach the front page of HN?

amelius 8y ago
You can ask the same question about the NHS.
- jodrellblank 8y ago
  You mean "Does the NHS often reach the front page of HN?"? .. I don't get it, why would you ask that?
  - amelius 8y ago
    Comment was about the research reaching the news section of the NHS.
    - arctangent 8y ago
      www.nhs.uk/news exists specifically to debunk false health claims (I'm tech lead for this site)
      - BossHogg 8y ago
        Thought this was a great site. Then I looked for the rss feed. Still good but...
        arctangent 8y ago
        We syndicate our content in a different way: https://developer.api.nhs.uk/ https://developer.api.nhs.uk/

Angostura 8y ago

I really enjoy the write-ups that the NHS does for these news analysis pieces. Informative, well pitched voice - in my opinion. Trustworthy

open-source-ux 8y ago
I agree. The A-Z of health conditions is also excellent: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/

buboard 8y ago

i wish they 'd suggest "programming" instead of puzzle solving. i mean, it's a form of puzzle solving, but it s also useful in real life.

whoisjuan 8y ago
"Doesn't slow down mental decline"... They're not suggesting anything. They are summarizing the conclusion of the study which determined that intellectual engagement may not offset age related cognitive decline.
- dang 8y ago
  > Did you even read the article? Please edit such swipes or nasty tropes out of your comments here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We're trying for a bit better than internet median in HN discussions.
  - whoisjuan 8y ago
    Done. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "swipe or nasty trope". The guideline just says to avoid this type of insinuations.
    - dang 8y ago
      Thanks for the edit. It helps.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- buboard 8y ago
  > But the study does seem to show that life-long intellectual engagement and problem-solving is linked to higher mental functioning, so it's not the case that giving your brain a workout is a waste of time, especially if you find those activities enjoyable and fulfilling. i did read it

joshuarcher 8y ago

Whenever the news reports findings of a new study, they should format it this way..

sn41 8y ago

Another activity that I have heard as slowing down mental decline is dancing: https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/08/29/dancing-can-reverse-the-signs-of-aging-in-the-brain/ https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/08/29/dancing-can-reverse-... Regardless of this dubious study, I will continue to solve crosswords. Cryptic crossword solvers were prized in Bletchley Park, since it was seen as evidence of lateral thinking. [1] I used to look down upon quick crosswords since they were too direct, but lately I have tried to time myself solving quick crosswords, and I find that they can be challenging as well when tried in a genuine quick mode - they involve jogging the memory at a very fast rate. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11151478/Could-you-have-been-a-codebreaker-at-Bletchley-Park.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11151478/C...

p1necone 8y ago

Seems to me that even if it didn't slow down the "rate" of mental decline, starting from a higher point because of "brain training" for want of a better term would still be good, no?

hmahncke 8y ago
Yes, but you don't really get to pick your starting point - in the study, cognitive function at age 11 predicted crossword puzzle use and eventual cognitive decline. So if you're fortunate enough to be sharp at age 11 (thanks to your genes, your parents, and your environment), then you're in great shape. But that's not a solution that can be applied to all of us.
weego 8y ago
That makes the assumption that any kind of brain training raises the bar in a way that mental decline then diminishes. Overall mental degeneration could be a parallel process to cognitive ability that 'blocks' its application. Until all vectors are tested and analysed any assumption is as right or wrong as any other.

hmahncke 8y ago

This is a nice study, and confirms earlier work by Tim Salthouse (University of Virginia [1]), looking at more than a thousand people (cross-sectionally), and evaluating their cognitive function and crossword puzzling activity. At every age, people who did more crossword puzzles had better cognitive activity - but the rate of cognitive decline was identical regardless of crossword puzzle use. This was interpreted (as in the current study) as showing that people who are sharper do more crossword puzzles - but doing crossword puzzles doesn't make a person shaper or change the rate at which a person becomes less sharp. [1] PDF: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5237/69252dd1d49cbd473844c004336920e0087f.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5237/69252dd1d49cbd473844c0...

ww520 8y ago

They ought to have a study on whether playing fast paced video game shows down mental decline.

blazespin 8y ago
Or speeds it up
sandos 8y ago
Not related to memory, but I have had trouble with balance issues for years, and I'm only 38 years old. Now I got a Xbox One X recently, which means, of course, increased gaming. I'm not 100% yet but it does seem to have almost wiped my balance issues. I was always feeling nauseous and tired when, for example, moving my head too quickly sideways, or simply driving a car. Its not outside the realm of possibility, my hypothesis is that I am very visually dependent when it comes to my sense of balance. Lots of fast-moving visual stimuli without any input to my balance organ probably tunes my brain to not use my eyes as much. There is also something called "Roll adaptation" which is rolling the head under visual stimuli that does not match. Maybe I should roll my head when gaming for even better effect...

newname2018 8y ago

You can ask dang why I'm still banned but anyway , I'll say from personal experience that once a person is even in the beginning of AZ the" puzzles" thing doesn't work anymore and the person afflicted is kinda aware of this more or less some of the time and it just causes them to realize it even more. Oh yes HN mods you can silence this username but you should realize that you can't silence the truth. Hey dang why don't you get a real job like the rest of us

markrages 8y ago

... but Lumosity!

djsumdog 8y ago

There's been a long standing idea that dementia and Alzheimer can be prevented by mental exercise. It intuitively seems like a good hypothesis, but as this an other studies in the comments show, it's not true. It is difficult to really test for this though, because you can't control for people's amount of mental exertion, gaming, learning and puzzle solving over their entire lives, so we substitute things like "knows more than one language fluently," something we can objectively measure and see if there's a correlation. This particular study used a group of people that took the same intelligence test when they were young. There's been some research that shows some older people's brains have trouble metabolizing glucose and other sugars, and that diets that push ketosis in older people (higher fats, coconut oil, less cereal/crabs) can help some people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooNuOKsa1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooNuOKsa1Q

george-marshall 8y ago

This is a test

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

Chess seems to show the opposite. In particular speak with literally just about any older grandmaster and you'll invariably find their mental faculties are still in great shape. Of course there's always a correlation != causation problem that plagues all sort of social studies. This observation does not necessarily mean that becoming a grandmaster would slow mental decline. It could simply be something within the individuals that drives them to become grandmasters that itself is what staves off the decline. Ultimately I'm not entirely sure what the point of science along these lines even is. The big risk is you notice a correlation to something and assume causation. You then start working to try to pursue that end in cases where the correlation is good - or avoid that end in cases where the correlation is bad. And you spend immense energy and resources doing this, only to find that in the end there was no actual causation at all and you just spent immense amounts of time, energy, and resources doing nothing. Even worse is that sometimes you might pursue the correlation and falsely end up at the desired end thus assuming causality when none exists. Maybe the best example of this is human/animal sacrifice of ancient civilizations. Those sacrifices were not baseless from their perspective. What undoubtedly happened is that at one point a civilization has e.g. a bad harvest. They feel they must have wronged the gods, so they end up sacrificing something. And, completely by coincidence, the next harvest is bountiful. Lo and behold, you now have centuries of human and animal sacrifice in a model where you can ignore any negative outcomes by suggesting it simply means that you didn't sacrifice enough. Keep ramping up the sacrifices and indeed eventually you'll get a good harvest, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the sacrifices you've made.

gnode 8y ago
> It could simply be something within the individuals that drives them to become grandmasters that itself is what staves off the decline. Or it could just be survival bias. If your mental faculties are in decline, then you would be disinclined to continue competing in chess. I can imagine people would stop competing at that level long before they completely lost their marbles.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  People generally reach grandmaster when they're very young and I'm not restricting my statement to only those that continue to play in international tournaments. One may retire from high level competitive chess, but people rarely give up the game altogether.

anongraddebt 8y ago

FWIW, I told a good friend to get her dementia-diagnosed father on a schedule of daily Dual N-Back training using open source programs (e.g. Brainworkshop). She asked his neurologist how effective this would be and he basically said, "it's the only cognitive training that could do anything." Not only is Dual N-Back a great mental workout, but it will also put you to sleep pretty quickly if you set the parameters such that the task is sufficiently taxing. Here's one that should make you tired within 15-20 mins. if you're just starting out: (1) Set N-Back to 3 (for every category of items that you have to remember, you are trying to remember the repeats in a string that have two items in between) (2) Set number of item categories to 3 (e.g. Shapes, Sounds, Spatial/Placement, and Colors) (3) Up the baseline 'randomness' factor or level of pattern obscurity. I cannot overstate how important (2) is. So many people in the N-Back community care about maxing out (1). IMHO, the real benefits come when you get (2) maxed out while keeping an N-Back of 3. THEN, work your way to up to higher levels of N-Back. You have a one in a billion short-term memory capacity and don't feel sleepy yet? Okay, throw in some multiple mentalism exercises while literally in the middle of doing the N-Back training. Ex.: visually 'recite' the alphabet backwards in your head with the letters being in mirror image format (so from 'behind'). You'll find it impoasible to get even remotely close to 80% accuracy if you turn the various parameters up high enough, and you'll have an easy way of falling asleep.

sethrin 8y ago
That seems like quite a strong claim. This would need to be supported by extraordinary empirical evidence. It's rather difficult for us to independently verify your friend's neurologist's word. Do you perhaps have some scientific studies to hand which might demonstrate the efficacy of this treatment?
- anongraddebt 8y ago
  My claim is only that a single neurologist said if any cognitive training might help, then N-Back training would be it. I have no other evidence other than my friend's testimony. Say the neurologist did say this, what's the implication? That you have defeasible justification for trying N-Back training, on recently diagnosed dementia patients, if you've already made the decision that cognitive training is worth pursuing (along with other treatments).

jspash 8y ago

As an aside, the NHS website is an absolute joy to use. From the legibility of the type to the navigation, also the style of writing is generally top notch IMHO. Regarding the design, I remember when Google products gave me a similar feeling. Sadly, with "Material Design" usability has sunk to some weird place where I continually ask "where do i click? what CAN i click? stop sliding things around!" in frustration. Apologies for going off topic (and the mini rant).

thom 8y ago
Worth pointing out that a lot of the good work NHS Digital do is inspired[1] by approach that the Government Digital Service did on other public service sites[2]. Over the last 5-10 years, basically every UK government website I've had to click on has slowly become sane and usable because of the GDS's work. 1: https://digital.nhs.uk/blog/transformation-blog/2018/defining-digital-standards-for-the-nhs https://digital.nhs.uk/blog/transformation-blog/2018/definin... 2: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard
- qwerty456127 8y ago
  Other governments all over the world should really copy that...
  - kace91 8y ago
    Absolutely. I can tell apart my country's official government sites from scams because the legit one will give warnings about it being potentially dangerous... Certificates that won't work, services that can only be used during business hours, and similar dumbfounding behaviour is all over the place.
- MarkMc 8y ago
  I agree - I'm writing code to submit VAT returns online and am impressed by the clear documentation and REST API provided by HMRC: https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs...

siliconunit 8y ago

Lots of highbrow denial:D /sarcasm

djpowell 8y ago

The whole of the NHS 'Behind the Headlines' blog is fantastic btw; taking newspaper stories, looking at the studies behind them and sifting out the truth from the sensationalism.

stevewillows 8y ago

Anecdotally, my neighbor is in her early 80s and has lived a very sheltered life. Recently she did a memory test and nearly aced it (28/30). Since then my typically... well, clueless... neighbor has taken an interest in learning how to use stuff like her TV, stereo, talking about better ways to do things around the yard, etc. Even with my own mother, the true benefit of puzzles is not that its exercising her brain or making her smarter, but its the confidence that goes along with being successful in these things. I think that goes a long way, even though it may be just a step above sugar pills. For me, I play Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection (mobile) every day. I have a cycle I go through. If I'm having a bad day, a good win at Galaxies gets me back into the 'you can do this' mindset. [1] https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/

raphar 8y ago

I really liked the shared article. In contast to what other news sources publish, this article links the original paper, reviews the metodology, gives some introductory explanations on the subject and provides all sorts of 'further reading' resources. Really enjoyed it, thanks for sharing!