10 ms·

Archive.org donations are currently matched by a generous supporter 2-to-1

494 points by aw3c2 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
org3432 8y ago
I just wish they wouldn't partner with orgs who restrict the downloading of material, it doesn't feel like the spirit of archive.org there are other places for content providers who want to be neurotic.
- gear54rus 8y ago
  can you elaborate on those orgs? any story to read?
  - steve19 8y ago
    I am not the op, but maybe s/he is referring to the fact that you can rent drm'd ebooks. It was quite jarring when I discovered this, but I was able to get hold of a rare out of print book.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Rent DRM'd books from whom?
      - steve19 8y ago
        I said rent, I should have used the word borrow.
    - gpvos 8y ago
      Apparently it's about these: https://archive.org/details/last20 https://archive.org/details/last20 (only 60 books) Article with rationale: https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive-org/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive...
      - dewey 8y ago
        That sound pretty awesome to be honest. > The digital protection allows books to be lent via downloads that disappear (or become inaccessible) when the loan period ends (e.g. two weeks). For users who prefer to read their ebooks directly in a browser, the same thing happens. The book becomes inaccessible at the end of the loan period, and the next reader in line has a chance to borrow it. That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Sure, DRM is bad and all that but if they would just give books out for free indefinitely it wouldn't be considered a library where you have access to a certain number of titles for a period of time. It's either these books not being available for online lending at all or within the same constrains as a "real" library just easy and online. What's bad about that?
        Narishma 8y ago
        > That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Because these are not physical books. You can give access to them to as many people as you want at the same time.
        dewey 8y ago
        That not unlimited people can rent the same title at the same time is probably a licensing issue (as they only purchases x copies for lending). The DRM in this case is mostly about the time limit on the rental though. If you would get access to the title indefinitely it would be giving away not renting?
        zandl 8y ago
        The whole project is about preserving information for current and future generations, so what place does limiting the availability of it have in history? It’s more likely it’ll just be lost due to DRM when no one can figure it out in the future. It’s the digital equivalent of losing the books, though due to someone being more concerned about their pocket book today than for future generations.
benatkin 8y ago
I don't buy into donation matching. I think if those wealthy people and organizations who are matching donations want to donate, they can just go ahead and donate. If they care and have the money and are going to refuse to donate it unless people of limited means donate, I don't want to encourage that behavior. I also want to donate to the cause that I feel is most important for me to support, not to who has the best deal. Edit: searched for articles about it, found this: https://blog.givewell.org/2011/12/15/why-you-shouldnt-let-donation-matching-affect-your-giving/ https://blog.givewell.org/2011/12/15/why-you-shouldnt-let-do...
- gammateam 8y ago
  > "If they care and have the money and are going to refuse to donate it unless people of limited means donate, I don't want to encourage that behavior." People of limited means judge wealthy people and organizations no matter how much they donate. The wealthy also know that there is diminishing efficacy from throwing money at a problem. So therefore linking it to public interest is the compromise. I think you and others looked at it backwards, where the public interest is tied to the matching and why it shouldn't be. This has nothing to do with the motivations of the wealthy matcher. All parties exist together in an ecosystem.
- daeken 8y ago
  It's a way to leverage their money. If by matching up to $1M they can get the group to raise $1.5M, that's better than outright donating that money.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - vortico 8y ago
    Exactly. Organizations offer matching for the same reason donors like to have their donations matched. Both parties leverage each other.
- oddity 8y ago
  While the conclusion matches yours, I don't think the article you link supports your argument. I agree with the article in that I dislike the manipulative aspect of donation matching even if it's mild and for a good cause. However, it's not necessarily the case that a wealthy donor is donation matching instead of donating the flat amount to avoid donating more. It could be that a donor who is donation matching up to some amount X only ever intended to donate X, but wants to encourage others to help contribute a total amount of X+Y. If Y is below expectations, the donor can still donate the full X. Whether this plays out like this in practice is different, and you would likely never hear about it because it would devalue the influence of donation matching if people know the donor will donate the full amount anyway.
mkl 8y ago
Note that the donation form is in USD, though it doesn't seem to say so. A bit confusing for those of us in other countries with "$"; the form knew I was in New Zealand.
- lathiat 8y ago
  A common problem for Australians too.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  Canada too. It's one of many Americanizations that we have to tolerate daily online. And if you think it's bad for the Kiwis or Aussies, because Canada is in America we are regularly grouped into "America" or "North America" for things like online store region. Leads to confusions on a regular basis.
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    > Canada too. It's one of many Americanizations that we have to tolerate daily online. Oh the humanity, a U.S. organization dealing in U.S. dollars, the world reserve currency. Maybe it should say, but it's not some grand indignity.
- jonah-archive 8y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out! An oversight on our part, we'll get it fixed.
kennxfl 8y ago
It's a better cause than buying a $500m boat.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  What’s the story here?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Brewster Kahle, the founder of the Internet Archive, spent his liquidity event funds on starting the Internet Archive instead of on what some might consider waste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Kahle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Kahle
edoo 8y ago
I like archive.org. I've mirrored thousands and thousands of their math/science ebooks into my apocalypse drive right next to the copy of wikipedia/wiktionary/wikispecies/etc and every binary/src package for the two distros I enjoy the most.
- programbreeding 8y ago
  Just curious: what are the two distros?
  - edoo 8y ago
    Arch and Ubuntu. I'm a long time Ubuntu user and fell in love with Arch the last few years. I'd only be running Arch if I had a little more free time. I just split my system this year into two computers. For the last 3.5 years I've been running Arch as my base system to manage VMs and the storage fabric with my primary desktop being an Ubuntu VM instance with GPU passthrough for accelerated graphics. The setup was pretty slick, my desktop could see a single raw drive for example that was actually a well managed NVME cache accelerated triple layer encrypted mirrored logical volume.
- lorenzorhoades 8y ago
  >> into my apocalypse drive I've often thought of what humanity would due given an apocalyptic scenario, and individually what I would do. I've never thought about creating an apocalypse drive, but am now considering making one! I'd be curious to see/ compare peoples full apocalypse drive.
  - edoo 8y ago
    Mine so far is the ebooks/wikis/distros/every console video game + emulators. And I'm barely at like 750 gigs. In theory I'm sitting on most of humanities basic hard knowledge and every significant piece of Linux source code. If for example a solar flare took down the grid for a couple years I could help setup local communication networks with solar and low power computers with long range wifi with web/ftp/irc/etc servers pretty easily.
bdz 8y ago
Can anyone explain to me how Archive.org is exempt from DMCA? For example you can download a lot of copyrighted old console ROMs from them. Not abandonware. How come no one goes after Archive.org? I mean TPB founders went to jail even tho they don't even host anything. How is Archive.org different?
- AlphaWeaver 8y ago
  I'm not a lawyer or an expert, but looking at the Wikipedia page for the DMCA [0] there appears to be protection for retro games: "An exemption was made for 'Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access.'" EDIT: Actually archive.org posted an article about exactly this [1] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright... [1]: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php https://archive.org/about/dmca.php
  - zerocrates 8y ago
    The thing about DMCA anticircumvention exemptions is that they don't last: they have to be constantly renewed, and the one you mention has in fact lapsed. Plus, they only get you out of the "anticircumvention" provisions, not regular old copyright law or the more familiar DMCA notice-and-takedown procedure. In other words an exemption may allow you to legally remove or break DRM or other copy protection, but it doesn't give you any rights to make copies or display works. As best I can tell, they seem to be operating on a "see what we can get away with" model, which appears to be working out pretty well for them.
  - tyu1000 8y ago
    This was discussed here extensively a few months ago.
- lgierth 8y ago
  The publishers of these games might not be terribly into making trouble. Copyrighted music and video however (stuff that MPAA is interested in) is not available online, and you actually have to go to the physical Archive in SF to access them. In that sense it works kind of like a library.
_pmf_ 8y ago
I hate to think what will be lost when Twitter goes belly up.
drallison 8y ago
If you make end-of-the-year donations, giving to Archive.org is an outstanding choice. Brewster and his team are focused on things that mattered in the past, are important now, and will form the structure which supports the future.

494 points by aw3c2 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

I just wish they wouldn't partner with orgs who restrict the downloading of material, it doesn't feel like the spirit of archive.org there are other places for content providers who want to be neurotic.

gear54rus 8y ago
can you elaborate on those orgs? any story to read?
- steve19 8y ago
  I am not the op, but maybe s/he is referring to the fact that you can rent drm'd ebooks. It was quite jarring when I discovered this, but I was able to get hold of a rare out of print book.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Rent DRM'd books from whom?
    - steve19 8y ago
      I said rent, I should have used the word borrow.
  - gpvos 8y ago
    Apparently it's about these: https://archive.org/details/last20 https://archive.org/details/last20 (only 60 books) Article with rationale: https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive-org/ https://blog.archive.org/2018/01/24/digital-books-on-archive...
    - dewey 8y ago
      That sound pretty awesome to be honest. > The digital protection allows books to be lent via downloads that disappear (or become inaccessible) when the loan period ends (e.g. two weeks). For users who prefer to read their ebooks directly in a browser, the same thing happens. The book becomes inaccessible at the end of the loan period, and the next reader in line has a chance to borrow it. That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Sure, DRM is bad and all that but if they would just give books out for free indefinitely it wouldn't be considered a library where you have access to a certain number of titles for a period of time. It's either these books not being available for online lending at all or within the same constrains as a "real" library just easy and online. What's bad about that?
      - Narishma 8y ago
        > That's just how it works in a "normal" library so why would it be any different? Because these are not physical books. You can give access to them to as many people as you want at the same time.
        dewey 8y ago
        That not unlimited people can rent the same title at the same time is probably a licensing issue (as they only purchases x copies for lending). The DRM in this case is mostly about the time limit on the rental though. If you would get access to the title indefinitely it would be giving away not renting?
        zandl 8y ago
        The whole project is about preserving information for current and future generations, so what place does limiting the availability of it have in history? It’s more likely it’ll just be lost due to DRM when no one can figure it out in the future. It’s the digital equivalent of losing the books, though due to someone being more concerned about their pocket book today than for future generations.

benatkin 8y ago

I don't buy into donation matching. I think if those wealthy people and organizations who are matching donations want to donate, they can just go ahead and donate. If they care and have the money and are going to refuse to donate it unless people of limited means donate, I don't want to encourage that behavior. I also want to donate to the cause that I feel is most important for me to support, not to who has the best deal. Edit: searched for articles about it, found this: https://blog.givewell.org/2011/12/15/why-you-shouldnt-let-donation-matching-affect-your-giving/ https://blog.givewell.org/2011/12/15/why-you-shouldnt-let-do...

gammateam 8y ago
> "If they care and have the money and are going to refuse to donate it unless people of limited means donate, I don't want to encourage that behavior." People of limited means judge wealthy people and organizations no matter how much they donate. The wealthy also know that there is diminishing efficacy from throwing money at a problem. So therefore linking it to public interest is the compromise. I think you and others looked at it backwards, where the public interest is tied to the matching and why it shouldn't be. This has nothing to do with the motivations of the wealthy matcher. All parties exist together in an ecosystem.
daeken 8y ago
It's a way to leverage their money. If by matching up to $1M they can get the group to raise $1.5M, that's better than outright donating that money.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- vortico 8y ago
  Exactly. Organizations offer matching for the same reason donors like to have their donations matched. Both parties leverage each other.
oddity 8y ago
While the conclusion matches yours, I don't think the article you link supports your argument. I agree with the article in that I dislike the manipulative aspect of donation matching even if it's mild and for a good cause. However, it's not necessarily the case that a wealthy donor is donation matching instead of donating the flat amount to avoid donating more. It could be that a donor who is donation matching up to some amount X only ever intended to donate X, but wants to encourage others to help contribute a total amount of X+Y. If Y is below expectations, the donor can still donate the full X. Whether this plays out like this in practice is different, and you would likely never hear about it because it would devalue the influence of donation matching if people know the donor will donate the full amount anyway.

mkl 8y ago

Note that the donation form is in USD, though it doesn't seem to say so. A bit confusing for those of us in other countries with "$"; the form knew I was in New Zealand.

lathiat 8y ago
A common problem for Australians too.
Waterluvian 8y ago
Canada too. It's one of many Americanizations that we have to tolerate daily online. And if you think it's bad for the Kiwis or Aussies, because Canada is in America we are regularly grouped into "America" or "North America" for things like online store region. Leads to confusions on a regular basis.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > Canada too. It's one of many Americanizations that we have to tolerate daily online. Oh the humanity, a U.S. organization dealing in U.S. dollars, the world reserve currency. Maybe it should say, but it's not some grand indignity.
jonah-archive 8y ago
Thanks for pointing this out! An oversight on our part, we'll get it fixed.

kennxfl 8y ago

It's a better cause than buying a $500m boat.

Scoundreller 8y ago
What’s the story here?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Brewster Kahle, the founder of the Internet Archive, spent his liquidity event funds on starting the Internet Archive instead of on what some might consider waste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Kahle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Kahle

edoo 8y ago

I like archive.org. I've mirrored thousands and thousands of their math/science ebooks into my apocalypse drive right next to the copy of wikipedia/wiktionary/wikispecies/etc and every binary/src package for the two distros I enjoy the most.

programbreeding 8y ago
Just curious: what are the two distros?
- edoo 8y ago
  Arch and Ubuntu. I'm a long time Ubuntu user and fell in love with Arch the last few years. I'd only be running Arch if I had a little more free time. I just split my system this year into two computers. For the last 3.5 years I've been running Arch as my base system to manage VMs and the storage fabric with my primary desktop being an Ubuntu VM instance with GPU passthrough for accelerated graphics. The setup was pretty slick, my desktop could see a single raw drive for example that was actually a well managed NVME cache accelerated triple layer encrypted mirrored logical volume.
lorenzorhoades 8y ago
>> into my apocalypse drive I've often thought of what humanity would due given an apocalyptic scenario, and individually what I would do. I've never thought about creating an apocalypse drive, but am now considering making one! I'd be curious to see/ compare peoples full apocalypse drive.
- edoo 8y ago
  Mine so far is the ebooks/wikis/distros/every console video game + emulators. And I'm barely at like 750 gigs. In theory I'm sitting on most of humanities basic hard knowledge and every significant piece of Linux source code. If for example a solar flare took down the grid for a couple years I could help setup local communication networks with solar and low power computers with long range wifi with web/ftp/irc/etc servers pretty easily.

bdz 8y ago

Can anyone explain to me how Archive.org is exempt from DMCA? For example you can download a lot of copyrighted old console ROMs from them. Not abandonware. How come no one goes after Archive.org? I mean TPB founders went to jail even tho they don't even host anything. How is Archive.org different?

AlphaWeaver 8y ago
I'm not a lawyer or an expert, but looking at the Wikipedia page for the DMCA [0] there appears to be protection for retro games: "An exemption was made for 'Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access.'" EDIT: Actually archive.org posted an article about exactly this [1] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright... [1]: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php https://archive.org/about/dmca.php
- zerocrates 8y ago
  The thing about DMCA anticircumvention exemptions is that they don't last: they have to be constantly renewed, and the one you mention has in fact lapsed. Plus, they only get you out of the "anticircumvention" provisions, not regular old copyright law or the more familiar DMCA notice-and-takedown procedure. In other words an exemption may allow you to legally remove or break DRM or other copy protection, but it doesn't give you any rights to make copies or display works. As best I can tell, they seem to be operating on a "see what we can get away with" model, which appears to be working out pretty well for them.
- tyu1000 8y ago
  This was discussed here extensively a few months ago.
lgierth 8y ago
The publishers of these games might not be terribly into making trouble. Copyrighted music and video however (stuff that MPAA is interested in) is not available online, and you actually have to go to the physical Archive in SF to access them. In that sense it works kind of like a library.

_pmf_ 8y ago

I hate to think what will be lost when Twitter goes belly up.

drallison 8y ago

If you make end-of-the-year donations, giving to Archive.org is an outstanding choice. Brewster and his team are focused on things that mattered in the past, are important now, and will form the structure which supports the future.