5 ms·

Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind.

Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind. In moby dick the standing order was: Keep your weather-eye open, and sing out every time. Sing out! sing out every time! These newer ships, esp the stealth ships seem to have dispensed with this feature. Perhaps navies have decided that the advantages of stealth and not having to stand in the cold damp all night are worth the cost of an occasional mishap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_bridge

8bitsrule 8y ago
They might have paid one sailor for a lot of years for the cost of this sinking.
- nradov 8y ago
  They had sailors on lookout duty. But apparently the lookouts didn't understand what they were seeing, or there was a breakdown in bridge resource management.
  - hansthehorse 8y ago
    They were traveling at 17 knots in a busy channel at night. That alone seems crazy.
    - mcv 8y ago
      In traffic terms, that would be speeding, in the dark, with your lights off. And apparently while not paying attention to the other traffic. All we need now is drunk crew.
      - SolarNet 8y ago
        I'd add texting while driving to the anology.
    - short_sells_poo 8y ago
      And boats don't do emergency stops, or turns for that matter. If you haven't been out on a powerboat at night, I urge you to try it once. It can be extremely disorienting as often you have zero points of reference, the ability to judge distances is compromised and objects can be completely invisible either because of the darkness when away from the shore, or because of the bright background light pollution from onshore lights. In such conditions, I want to take every piece of information about my surroundings (e.g. radar, sonar and AIS), and make sure that others know where I am and where I'm heading, so turning off the AIS in a busy shipping lane is particularly questionable. As another poster wrote, this is the analogue of speeding on a busy highway with all your lights off and having a matte black car.
      - varjag 8y ago
        > As another poster wrote, this is the analogue of speeding on a busy highway with all your lights off and having a matte black car. This is another thing that happens in Norway all the time.
andyidsinga 8y ago
Ha - nice Moby Dick reference! I would add Jack London's The Sea Wolf to that -- both for the collision aspect early in the book then life aboard the ship. Hell - add Dan Simmon's "The Terror" to that list too :)
arethuza 8y ago
I believe the Royal Navy was about the last to be keen on open bridges - sure I read somewhere that it was only the threat of nuclear fallout the convinced them that it was better to be inside. Worth reading someone like Nicholas Monsarrat for what an open bridge on a small ship in the North Atlantic could be like - utter misery!
mjlee 8y ago
I've done watches on both. When you're really exhausted a flying bridge is somewhat invigorating as you'd expect. I still think an enclosed bridge is better all round. You can have the tools and reference materials you need at hand and have a reasonably comfortable environment which reduces fatigue - a serious problem when you can't just pull over and stop for a nap. You can still head out to the bridge wings to get some fresh air and have a look around every few minutes, which is what I used to do.
CydeWeys 8y ago
Would bringing back the crow's nest make more sense? A lot of ships still have masts for varying reasons.
- aoki 8y ago
  You can’t, in general, put people above the air search radar. (Exercise for the reader: why is it ok for the pilothouse of US AEGIS ships to be located above the SPY-1 arrays?)
  - jloughry 8y ago
    This seems to be relevant: https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/docs/DDG51_04-97.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/docs/DDG51_04-97.htm
    - aoki 8y ago
      the general idea is that it is unhealthy to be right in the beam of a high-power air search radar. when you are in port, you get used to lots of pierside announcements to the effect of "do not rotate or radiate any electrical or electronic equipment while men are working aloft [in the masts of a ship at this pier]." on most ships, the air search radars are on masts or platforms well above where any people work while underway. but on US AEGIS ships (CG 47, DDG 51), the pilothouse is located above the phased array panels. however, all of the arrays are on the outside of the blocky superstructure, pointing AWAY from the pilothouse. (there was a quote in that message about not leaning over the rails when standing on the bridge wings!) the navantia design and derivatives (including the Nansens) did not take up this idea. presumably because they're smaller and needed the stability, but i'm just guessing there.
aoki 8y ago
The 70s era DD I served on had a fully enclosed pilothouse. Everybody standing underway deck watch (except the deck sailors standing lookout watch on the bridge wings and aft, and the signalmen in the signal shack above) was in the pilothouse.

8bitsrule 8y ago

They might have paid one sailor for a lot of years for the cost of this sinking.

nradov 8y ago
They had sailors on lookout duty. But apparently the lookouts didn't understand what they were seeing, or there was a breakdown in bridge resource management.
- hansthehorse 8y ago
  They were traveling at 17 knots in a busy channel at night. That alone seems crazy.
  - mcv 8y ago
    In traffic terms, that would be speeding, in the dark, with your lights off. And apparently while not paying attention to the other traffic. All we need now is drunk crew.
    - SolarNet 8y ago
      I'd add texting while driving to the anology.
  - short_sells_poo 8y ago
    And boats don't do emergency stops, or turns for that matter. If you haven't been out on a powerboat at night, I urge you to try it once. It can be extremely disorienting as often you have zero points of reference, the ability to judge distances is compromised and objects can be completely invisible either because of the darkness when away from the shore, or because of the bright background light pollution from onshore lights. In such conditions, I want to take every piece of information about my surroundings (e.g. radar, sonar and AIS), and make sure that others know where I am and where I'm heading, so turning off the AIS in a busy shipping lane is particularly questionable. As another poster wrote, this is the analogue of speeding on a busy highway with all your lights off and having a matte black car.
    - varjag 8y ago
      > As another poster wrote, this is the analogue of speeding on a busy highway with all your lights off and having a matte black car. This is another thing that happens in Norway all the time.

andyidsinga 8y ago

Ha - nice Moby Dick reference! I would add Jack London's The Sea Wolf to that -- both for the collision aspect early in the book then life aboard the ship. Hell - add Dan Simmon's "The Terror" to that list too :)

arethuza 8y ago

I believe the Royal Navy was about the last to be keen on open bridges - sure I read somewhere that it was only the threat of nuclear fallout the convinced them that it was better to be inside. Worth reading someone like Nicholas Monsarrat for what an open bridge on a small ship in the North Atlantic could be like - utter misery!

mjlee 8y ago

I've done watches on both. When you're really exhausted a flying bridge is somewhat invigorating as you'd expect. I still think an enclosed bridge is better all round. You can have the tools and reference materials you need at hand and have a reasonably comfortable environment which reduces fatigue - a serious problem when you can't just pull over and stop for a nap. You can still head out to the bridge wings to get some fresh air and have a look around every few minutes, which is what I used to do.

CydeWeys 8y ago

Would bringing back the crow's nest make more sense? A lot of ships still have masts for varying reasons.

aoki 8y ago
You can’t, in general, put people above the air search radar. (Exercise for the reader: why is it ok for the pilothouse of US AEGIS ships to be located above the SPY-1 arrays?)
- jloughry 8y ago
  This seems to be relevant: https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/docs/DDG51_04-97.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/docs/DDG51_04-97.htm
  - aoki 8y ago
    the general idea is that it is unhealthy to be right in the beam of a high-power air search radar. when you are in port, you get used to lots of pierside announcements to the effect of "do not rotate or radiate any electrical or electronic equipment while men are working aloft [in the masts of a ship at this pier]." on most ships, the air search radars are on masts or platforms well above where any people work while underway. but on US AEGIS ships (CG 47, DDG 51), the pilothouse is located above the phased array panels. however, all of the arrays are on the outside of the blocky superstructure, pointing AWAY from the pilothouse. (there was a quote in that message about not leaning over the rails when standing on the bridge wings!) the navantia design and derivatives (including the Nansens) did not take up this idea. presumably because they're smaller and needed the stability, but i'm just guessing there.

aoki 8y ago

The 70s era DD I served on had a fully enclosed pilothouse. Everybody standing underway deck watch (except the deck sailors standing lookout watch on the bridge wings and aft, and the signalmen in the signal shack above) was in the pilothouse.