7 ms·

Wild Applause, Secretly Choreographed (2013)

67 points by baxtr 8y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
At least it looks like the claquers are paid. The NFL one the other hand doesn't generally pay the people who it signs up to be "enthusiastic" about the half-time performance. http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3883771 http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3883771 Sometimes the half-time show can be a dud, but it looks good on TV due to them focusing on the "enthusiastic" volunteers. https://www.businessinsider.com/crowd-quiet-justin-timberlake-super-bowl-halftime-show-video-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/crowd-quiet-justin-timberlak...
ryandrake 8y ago
> Those cries of “Bravo!” that ring out after a spectacular pas de deux? It may be that the audience is genuinely electrified. Or it may be the sound of a very elegant theatrical protection racket. I’m more and more convinced every day that the ability to detect fake signals of quality is becoming an essential life skill that should be taught in school or something. From fake reviews on Amazon and Yelp to PR masquerading as news to payola on the radio, to web site SEO / search rank manipulation, phony followers on Twitter accounts, you can’t seem to rely on anything as an impartial measure of quality. There’s no way to tell what’s any good anymore without observing yourself. It’s all fake!
- kylek 8y ago
  We used to call this "critical thinking"
  - mc32 8y ago
    I think you’re right but also it’s become more pervassive and more nuanced and less detectable and sime so overt we don’t even care anymore. I think the magnitude has changed, for the worse.
  - mdpopescu 8y ago
    Yep, and unfortunately schools have been teaching its opposite for decades - unthinkingly accepting authority just because it's authority.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - will_brown 8y ago
    No amount of “critical thinking” expose some of the tactics corporations employ to market products, especially in the internet era of fake positive reviews, fake negative reviews and just simply fake (counterfeit products). For example, in the real world I did some independent marketing jobs in undergrad and while some marketing is obvious (ex. red bull team giving free red bull or handing free packs of gum out on the beach)...ever see a good looking couple driving a new car (yeah in my day driver was paid $25/hour to drive around a model in the passenger seat who got $50/hour. And it’s dozens in every major city), ever have someone at a bar casually engage you in conversation and buy you a drink/beer (yeah good chance that was paid marketing, and we aren’t talking bud light girls).
    - nkrisc 8y ago
      Those methods also sound wildly inefficient and ineffective. I think the "critical thinking" part is knowing that a new car is not going to make you young and have an attractive partner.
      - will_brown 8y ago
        Well if you read a number of case studies on google/Facebook advertising I think it’s also easy to conclude those methods are not very effective either. And don’t think for a minute part of the car set up is not placing a significantly more attractive female with a less attractive male. And if people are really looking at that set up and thinking oh if I buy that car I’ll be young too (which I never mentioned anything about young), they may need more than critical thinking skills. Anyway it’s the same concept as social media influencers...people actually do buy the things other people buy that they envy. As to the bar thing...it’s pretty effective, 1. Go to where people are drinking already, 2. Chat them up in a social environment, 3. Buy them the drink/beer they wouldn’t have ever otherwise tried...it leaves an overall good experience in the mind of the consumers they relate to the drink...and trust me it works.
      - InitialLastName 8y ago
        The goal isn't for you to think that explicitly. The goal is for you to subtly associate Product B with feelings related to "young and attractive partner" so that next time you're making a decision between Product B and the competitor's Product C, you are emotionally tilted in their direction. It's probably not enough of a tilt to overcome many logistical factors, but it might also not be something you notice when making the decision.
  - jancsika 8y ago
    Suppose you can use your critical thinking skills to convince 1 member of an anti-vaxxer group to consult experts and discover they don't know what they're talking about. If the group consists of two members, then you just decreased its size by half. Great job! Now suppose a influence campaign sponsored by a nation state helps an anti-vaccination group grow from 2 members to 20 members. Now your critical thinking skills only decrease the group's size by 5%. Your impact is an order of magnitude smaller without your skills having decreased. So I don't think this is a matter of "critical thinking."
stevecalifornia 8y ago
Is there any documentation on what feels like paid applause at Apple product reveals? It always feels like there are a ton of employees in the front rows who are told to gasp and cheer for really benign feature demos.
- everyone 8y ago
  benign? Do you mean banal?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mikeyouse 8y ago
  I think it's "paid applause" in the sense that they often invite the product teams that were responsible for the features to be in the crowd, and they're cheering for themselves and their teammates. Of course they're proud of their accomplishments and will cheer their CEO or other various VIPs pointing out the results of their hard work.
- microtherion 8y ago
  The last time I had a seat in the actual venue in a product reveal was during the Steve Jobs era, and applause was definitely not coached — Steve was simply a gifted presenter. These days, getting an invitation to a product reveal is a rare treat for employees (because there aren't that many seats), so I'm pretty sure the enthusiasm is genuine. I generally watch these reveals in satellite offices (where there are no cameras or audience for whose benefit one would have to fake enthusiasm), and there is still applause.
- hugey010 8y ago
  I've been to WWDC and other Apple product reveals. 1/8 of the audience applauds wildly for everything. Apple staff, koolaid drinkers, and high school aged folk shipped in. The other 7/8 might be interested, but are either taking notes or outwardly upset they have to support whatever new feature or product being pushed. Developer quality of life improvements, cool demos, and non-novelty product announcements get real applause.
wccrawford 8y ago
I went to a live taping for a popular talk show host and was surprised to see how much they prodded the audience into cheering at the correct times for the hosts's jokes. I always knew that some of it was fake, but they really, really worked hard to make sure the audience applauded at the right time and for the correct length of time. It left a sour taste in my mouth because I genuinely think the audience would have cheered for most or all of it anyhow, but knowing how it was forced really ruined it for me.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  Indeed, Everywhere, A fair portion of apparently spontaneous reactions in the media are fake. I suspect the main significant thing in looking at Russia is that you have an important in-person performance rather than performance broadcast on a screen. In Russia, in-person performance is important while TV and later media are what matter in the West. On a screen, a lot is by definition fake since real people and situations look strange broadcast on a screen with no tweaks/improvements.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  That's interesting. I went to Late Night with Stephen Colbert the other month, expecting there to be some kind of red "applause" sign to coordinate it -- but it was 100% organic, which I found fascinating. There's a warm-up act to rev up the audience and get them high-energy and excited! But all this is just to put them in a state of mind: once the cameras are rolling, it was all real. What show did you go to and how did they "prod"?
  - pradn 8y ago
    My experience at Colbert was a mixed bag. They got all the guests in the lobby and one of the workers told us that our energy was very important, Colbert really feeds off of it, that it's important for the show. So they told us of the importance. But during the show there wasn't much prodding I guess. I forgot if they had an opener comedian. What was a bit offputting was how quiet Colbert was when the camera was not running and how much more energetic he was when it was. I know they are playing it up for the camera, but it does make it feel ungenuine. And add to that the format of the talk show. Each of the guests sorta comes up with a routine, planned by their publicists. If all goes well, they get their message across while being spontaneous. A hard thing to do, but also something that feels authentic. It's not just two buddies hanging out on TV. You also realize that the TV audience is by far the most important part of the filming process. You're just a setpiece. I'd almost say don't go to a talk show taping if you like them.
NorthOf33rd 8y ago
David Levine's Some of the People, All of the Time in the most recent issue of N+1 Magazine is a fantastic short story that revolves around claqueurs. https://nplusonemag.com/issue-32/fiction-drama/some-of-the-people-all-of-the-time/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-32/fiction-drama/some-of-the-p...
edw519 8y ago
Reminds me of perhaps the world's sleeziest use of claqueurs: Tony Robbins conferences. At some cheap local weekend event, when Tony presents his coming attraction, the more expensive week long conference, the crowd goes wild. People jumping up and down and cheering. Your fellow attendees shouting to you, "Wow! I HAVE to go to that!" Then you sign up and find out 2 weeks later that your fellow attendees at the loss-leader conference are your trainers at the big gig.
- fossuser 8y ago
  My roommate was watching some documentary about him and I couldn't watch it - everything about him screamed scam and conman, I found him extremely unlikable. The few clips I saw were him giving someone terrible advice and showing off how rich he was.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I was at a Tony Robbins weekend once and I still remember how I was sitting there and not getting why so many people went completely crazy. It was really surreal.
braindongle 8y ago
This is the most entertaining (false) stereotype that I've seen in some time. Those artists with their big egos and weak constitutions! Makes me nostalgic. “Artists have very fine and delicate natures, they have a very delicate nervous system, and, unfortunately, all of them have a strongly inflated self-image,”
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
scarface74 8y ago
I went to a Wheel of Fortune taping. Steve Harvey did his own warmup and when people didn’t laugh, he coached people to laugh and said most of the time you have to pay $x to see his stand up and we were getting in for free.

67 points by baxtr 8y ago

At least it looks like the claquers are paid. The NFL one the other hand doesn't generally pay the people who it signs up to be "enthusiastic" about the half-time performance. http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3883771 http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3883771 Sometimes the half-time show can be a dud, but it looks good on TV due to them focusing on the "enthusiastic" volunteers. https://www.businessinsider.com/crowd-quiet-justin-timberlake-super-bowl-halftime-show-video-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/crowd-quiet-justin-timberlak...

ryandrake 8y ago

> Those cries of “Bravo!” that ring out after a spectacular pas de deux? It may be that the audience is genuinely electrified. Or it may be the sound of a very elegant theatrical protection racket. I’m more and more convinced every day that the ability to detect fake signals of quality is becoming an essential life skill that should be taught in school or something. From fake reviews on Amazon and Yelp to PR masquerading as news to payola on the radio, to web site SEO / search rank manipulation, phony followers on Twitter accounts, you can’t seem to rely on anything as an impartial measure of quality. There’s no way to tell what’s any good anymore without observing yourself. It’s all fake!

kylek 8y ago
We used to call this "critical thinking"
- mc32 8y ago
  I think you’re right but also it’s become more pervassive and more nuanced and less detectable and sime so overt we don’t even care anymore. I think the magnitude has changed, for the worse.
- mdpopescu 8y ago
  Yep, and unfortunately schools have been teaching its opposite for decades - unthinkingly accepting authority just because it's authority.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- will_brown 8y ago
  No amount of “critical thinking” expose some of the tactics corporations employ to market products, especially in the internet era of fake positive reviews, fake negative reviews and just simply fake (counterfeit products). For example, in the real world I did some independent marketing jobs in undergrad and while some marketing is obvious (ex. red bull team giving free red bull or handing free packs of gum out on the beach)...ever see a good looking couple driving a new car (yeah in my day driver was paid $25/hour to drive around a model in the passenger seat who got $50/hour. And it’s dozens in every major city), ever have someone at a bar casually engage you in conversation and buy you a drink/beer (yeah good chance that was paid marketing, and we aren’t talking bud light girls).
  - nkrisc 8y ago
    Those methods also sound wildly inefficient and ineffective. I think the "critical thinking" part is knowing that a new car is not going to make you young and have an attractive partner.
    - will_brown 8y ago
      Well if you read a number of case studies on google/Facebook advertising I think it’s also easy to conclude those methods are not very effective either. And don’t think for a minute part of the car set up is not placing a significantly more attractive female with a less attractive male. And if people are really looking at that set up and thinking oh if I buy that car I’ll be young too (which I never mentioned anything about young), they may need more than critical thinking skills. Anyway it’s the same concept as social media influencers...people actually do buy the things other people buy that they envy. As to the bar thing...it’s pretty effective, 1. Go to where people are drinking already, 2. Chat them up in a social environment, 3. Buy them the drink/beer they wouldn’t have ever otherwise tried...it leaves an overall good experience in the mind of the consumers they relate to the drink...and trust me it works.
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      The goal isn't for you to think that explicitly. The goal is for you to subtly associate Product B with feelings related to "young and attractive partner" so that next time you're making a decision between Product B and the competitor's Product C, you are emotionally tilted in their direction. It's probably not enough of a tilt to overcome many logistical factors, but it might also not be something you notice when making the decision.
- jancsika 8y ago
  Suppose you can use your critical thinking skills to convince 1 member of an anti-vaxxer group to consult experts and discover they don't know what they're talking about. If the group consists of two members, then you just decreased its size by half. Great job! Now suppose a influence campaign sponsored by a nation state helps an anti-vaccination group grow from 2 members to 20 members. Now your critical thinking skills only decrease the group's size by 5%. Your impact is an order of magnitude smaller without your skills having decreased. So I don't think this is a matter of "critical thinking."

stevecalifornia 8y ago

Is there any documentation on what feels like paid applause at Apple product reveals? It always feels like there are a ton of employees in the front rows who are told to gasp and cheer for really benign feature demos.

everyone 8y ago
benign? Do you mean banal?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mikeyouse 8y ago
I think it's "paid applause" in the sense that they often invite the product teams that were responsible for the features to be in the crowd, and they're cheering for themselves and their teammates. Of course they're proud of their accomplishments and will cheer their CEO or other various VIPs pointing out the results of their hard work.
microtherion 8y ago
The last time I had a seat in the actual venue in a product reveal was during the Steve Jobs era, and applause was definitely not coached — Steve was simply a gifted presenter. These days, getting an invitation to a product reveal is a rare treat for employees (because there aren't that many seats), so I'm pretty sure the enthusiasm is genuine. I generally watch these reveals in satellite offices (where there are no cameras or audience for whose benefit one would have to fake enthusiasm), and there is still applause.
hugey010 8y ago
I've been to WWDC and other Apple product reveals. 1/8 of the audience applauds wildly for everything. Apple staff, koolaid drinkers, and high school aged folk shipped in. The other 7/8 might be interested, but are either taking notes or outwardly upset they have to support whatever new feature or product being pushed. Developer quality of life improvements, cool demos, and non-novelty product announcements get real applause.

wccrawford 8y ago

I went to a live taping for a popular talk show host and was surprised to see how much they prodded the audience into cheering at the correct times for the hosts's jokes. I always knew that some of it was fake, but they really, really worked hard to make sure the audience applauded at the right time and for the correct length of time. It left a sour taste in my mouth because I genuinely think the audience would have cheered for most or all of it anyhow, but knowing how it was forced really ruined it for me.

joe_the_user 8y ago
Indeed, Everywhere, A fair portion of apparently spontaneous reactions in the media are fake. I suspect the main significant thing in looking at Russia is that you have an important in-person performance rather than performance broadcast on a screen. In Russia, in-person performance is important while TV and later media are what matter in the West. On a screen, a lot is by definition fake since real people and situations look strange broadcast on a screen with no tweaks/improvements.
crazygringo 8y ago
That's interesting. I went to Late Night with Stephen Colbert the other month, expecting there to be some kind of red "applause" sign to coordinate it -- but it was 100% organic, which I found fascinating. There's a warm-up act to rev up the audience and get them high-energy and excited! But all this is just to put them in a state of mind: once the cameras are rolling, it was all real. What show did you go to and how did they "prod"?
- pradn 8y ago
  My experience at Colbert was a mixed bag. They got all the guests in the lobby and one of the workers told us that our energy was very important, Colbert really feeds off of it, that it's important for the show. So they told us of the importance. But during the show there wasn't much prodding I guess. I forgot if they had an opener comedian. What was a bit offputting was how quiet Colbert was when the camera was not running and how much more energetic he was when it was. I know they are playing it up for the camera, but it does make it feel ungenuine. And add to that the format of the talk show. Each of the guests sorta comes up with a routine, planned by their publicists. If all goes well, they get their message across while being spontaneous. A hard thing to do, but also something that feels authentic. It's not just two buddies hanging out on TV. You also realize that the TV audience is by far the most important part of the filming process. You're just a setpiece. I'd almost say don't go to a talk show taping if you like them.

NorthOf33rd 8y ago

David Levine's Some of the People, All of the Time in the most recent issue of N+1 Magazine is a fantastic short story that revolves around claqueurs. https://nplusonemag.com/issue-32/fiction-drama/some-of-the-people-all-of-the-time/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-32/fiction-drama/some-of-the-p...

edw519 8y ago

Reminds me of perhaps the world's sleeziest use of claqueurs: Tony Robbins conferences. At some cheap local weekend event, when Tony presents his coming attraction, the more expensive week long conference, the crowd goes wild. People jumping up and down and cheering. Your fellow attendees shouting to you, "Wow! I HAVE to go to that!" Then you sign up and find out 2 weeks later that your fellow attendees at the loss-leader conference are your trainers at the big gig.

fossuser 8y ago
My roommate was watching some documentary about him and I couldn't watch it - everything about him screamed scam and conman, I found him extremely unlikable. The few clips I saw were him giving someone terrible advice and showing off how rich he was.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
maxxxxx 8y ago
I was at a Tony Robbins weekend once and I still remember how I was sitting there and not getting why so many people went completely crazy. It was really surreal.

braindongle 8y ago

This is the most entertaining (false) stereotype that I've seen in some time. Those artists with their big egos and weak constitutions! Makes me nostalgic. “Artists have very fine and delicate natures, they have a very delicate nervous system, and, unfortunately, all of them have a strongly inflated self-image,”

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

scarface74 8y ago

I went to a Wheel of Fortune taping. Steve Harvey did his own warmup and when people didn’t laugh, he coached people to laugh and said most of the time you have to pay $x to see his stand up and we were getting in for free.