9 ms·

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior.

amelius 8y ago
How did you find out?
- theprotocol 8y ago
  I figured out that my problems were related to intestinal microflora because they became ten times worse after undergoing 3 courses of H. Pylori eradication therapy in the span of only a few months, and I never improved for years afterwards. That's the short version; in reality, I suffered for a decade and a half before I caught on that I could do something about it, and it took about 5 years after that to get any kind of positive result (which gave me the confidence to pursue it more seriously). S. Boulardii is fairly widely known as having a pretty broad range of positive effects, so trying it out was a no-brainer. I have tried many, many things over the years and have improved greatly. On a related note, it is common to assume that confirmation bias or the placebo effect would distort my judgment, but it turns out I am objective to a fault, as any objectively measurable intervention that I thought worked was later tested experimentally and confirmed my results. There is actually nothing wrong with taking a guerrilla approach to health if doctors can't help you, as long as you don't fall for the "alternative for alternative's sake" fallacy, and are willing to bear the costs of iterating through the most promising interventions and not being disappointed when most of them fail.
  - whitepoplar 8y ago
    Did you adjust your diet, or are you taking supplements?
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      Both. Regarding diet, I started observing the effects of everything I ate and adjusting accordingly, somewhat like an elimination diet. I was actually really clueless at first and had numerous deficiencies as a tradeoff for some of the symptoms disappearing (which was great but not sustainable). Over the span of years, this has improved and today I have no deficiencies and only relatively mild symptoms remain. The biggest breakthrough was limiting fermentation, by taking the FODMAP IBS diet to its natural conclusion, and eliminating everything that would ferment (and thus increase intestinal microorganisms, which for me were imbalanced). What prompted me to do this was trying 2 similar probiotic formulations, only one of which had FOS. The one with FOS caused a huge flare up. So I greatly reduced fermentable things ("resistant starches," "soluble fiber," "FOS," "FODMAPs", fructans, sugar alcohols...). Caprylic acid supplementation really reduced fermentation whenever I made a dietary mistake. I googled that idea and found the blog of Dr. Norm Robillard which advocates for a similar low-fermentation diet. Interestingly, the people who commented on his site seemed to divide into 2 camps: low-fermentation people vs. those who did well on the opposite diet (high starch / fermented foods). Adding S. Boulardii then reduced my symptoms further (brain fog, chronic intestinal inflammation) and I feel pretty decent now. I cannot yet figure out how to make it so my intestinal microflora is balanced enough that eating fermented and/or fermentable foods wouldn't destroy me. I'm still working on that in my spare time.
      - hugelgupf 8y ago
        Brain fog, intestinal inflammation. Sounds so very familiar. Do you have research notes, on methodology and things tried? I'm now very curious for myself.
        theprotocol 8y ago
        I don't have notes per se, and I am afraid to say something that can be considered advice. I can answer any question you might have though (assuming it's appropriate for me to do so here, I hope I don't annoy HN users).
  - sametmax 8y ago
    I'm very interested in your experience. Few questions: - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ? - did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ? And if you ever have the time, can you give a long explaination text about your overall experience ? That's the kind of information I'm mining hard for. I do understand it takes time and also that you are not a doctor and cannot be considered a representative sample. But it's very interesting and hard to find information.
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      I didn't expect this level of attention at all. I hope it is appropriate for me to respond. - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? Intestinal "well-being," feeling I can almost forget about my intestines, whereas normally my abdomen always hurts very badly, to the point my entire body is straining in reaction to it. This is only in combination with the other measures I took; S. Boulardii alone is insufficient. Whenever my intestines felt fine, my head felt clear and my nose/sinuses would stop being congested; and vice versa. This phenomenon has been consistent throughout my illness and has led many a doctor to scratch his/her head and/or not take me seriously. I tried doubling the dose after reading about that on the net (some people take 25m+ CFUs), but it gave me dryness/constipation and resulted in diverticulitis so I gave that up. - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? Only as part of larger probiotic formulations. I don't tolerate most and I'm not sure why. It may be that some strains produce histamines or include FOS (when I iterated through probiotic products, I was not aware of FOS - please see my other reply below where I discuss FOS). So I don't have any experience with it. - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? I take KAL S. Boulardii (ordered from iherb). I use veg. capsules because of a bias I have: I had bad side effects to a few liquid probiotic formulations I tried early on, so I ended up avoiding them as a general rule (which might be invalid but I have no further need to re-test it). - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ? The reason I got the treatment in the first place was chronic inflammation in the stomach and intestines. I also had severe chronic sinus inflammation (enlarged turbinates specifically) that never abated, and a very bad response to histamines (redness, itching). I had asthma-like throat constriction; a doctor once told me "of course your heart rate's up, you're almost choking!" after I went in because I felt out of breath. I had a general drunken feeling, and would even get giddy at times. I have considered the possibility of auto-brewery syndrome, but there's no way to tell now. The doctor was a gastroenterologist so he focused on the digestive issues. After the eradication therapy, that all got much worse and I developed noticeable food intolerances. I think I was already sensitive to those foods, but not enough that I'd notice at the time. I specifically could no longer tolerate dairy and sugar at all, and I had to greatly limit harsh foods (acidic stuff like vinegar, or very salty foods) or else I'd get gastritis extremely quickly (confirmed on endoscopy). My scalp started to itch and lots of hair fell out in my crown area. I am better with dairy nowadays but still can't have sugar, and vinegar just destroys me (I guess because it is corrosive AND high in histamines). I also can barely eat acidic foods and have to avoid most of them. - did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ? I had always felt great until the age of 11, then it hit me and I started to have "attacks" which I didn't understand at the time, and doctors couldn't figure them out at all. I was given a bunch of things like nasal steroids for the sinus issues, and some symptomatic treatment for the stomach. I felt so terrible though, literally like I was dying. I imagine waterboarding feels like that, because I just felt like I was unable to breathe adequately and even though it wasn't visible, I felt like I was making a contorted face all the time because of the feeling of straining. I kept asking for help but after doctors couldn't find anything, my parents began punishing me for what they thought was malingering (long story there - but they are forgiven and we are on good terms now). I have some theories about what caused it but nothing concrete. I moved country (continent too, in fact) just 2 years prior and hygiene was far worse. I went through several bouts of gastroenteritis. I also got a salmonella immunization (capsule) and the doctor instructed my mom to open it up and release the powder in some milk, to make it easier for a child of my age to swallow it. I got extremely sick with some kind flu-like illness + gastroenteritis after that, even though my siblings who took the same immunization did not get sick. Please see the reply I made below for some more details if you're interested edit: I forgot to mention something relevant that would relate my experience with the article. A while back I read an article written by an autistic man, in which he mentioned "face tightness" being part of his being autistic (I only made the connection later so I don't know how to find it again). I truly think there is something to that. I felt strained and neurotic whenever my symptoms flared up, and I was quite antisocial in high school, yet mellow on the few days my symptoms cleared up. edit: further details added. I typed this up a bit quickly (it's late here) so I had omitted some important things.
  - nyc111 8y ago
    @theprotocol With your permission, I hope, I copied your comments to my wiki http://www.zeynel.a2hosted.com/index.php?title=Digestive_Health http://www.zeynel.a2hosted.com/index.php?title=Digestive_Hea... I think it will be useful to others as well to read them as a whole. I'll update if there are new relevant comments. Thanks!
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      Sure, but please note that it is not to be construed as advice, merely an example of what might work for someone, and that everyone is different (for instance, one of my posts mentions that a subset of people do extremely well on a diet opposite mine - high starch). edit: I've also not written anything about methodology, so I hope my writings have not given the impression that one can play fast and loose with supplements. I actually follow a safety-first approach, and I do this only after a doctor reaches a dead-end. General approach for evaluating supplements: 1- Find out about something that sounds promising, either by accident, or googling ideas and stumbling upon something that claims to improve your condition in some way. 2- Skim reputable sites (that cite research) listing the potential pros and cons of the supplement in question. Stop here if there is an unacceptable level of risk. 3- Skim any research about the supplement vs. your condition. 4- Read Amazon/iherb/other customer reviews for formulations of the supplement. Do not get excited. Most of these reviews are fake. What you are doing here is scoping out the ideal claimed outcome as a screening tool. If the ideal outcome is not worthwhile, stop here. 5- Dig into the research yourself. Confirm the level of risk. Check interactions. Determine whether there is a chance of the supplement working. 6- Purchase and test product. Remain objective. The baseline expectation is that nothing will work. Don't be emotional about that. I love having experience with products regardless of whether they work for me or not. I find it very interesting either way.
      - nyc111 8y ago
        > everyone is different Very true. I added your disclaimer.
        CuriousSkeptic 8y ago
  - acover 8y ago
    Do you think a survey of people with similar problems would have helped narrow down effective treatments? What about instead of sampling randomly selecting individuals to try a treatment? I'm often overwhelmed by the amount of information about options out there.
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      I think you'd have to reduce the problem set/space for that to be effective (which is a very similar concept to reducing how you define your state space in AI, if you're familiar with that). If the problem set has too many variables, I think it becomes too challenging to analyze. My approach is to rely very heavily on heuristics in order to screen potential treatments. I wrote some steps describing how to do that elsewhere in this thread.
      - acover 8y ago
        Yeah, I guess I really don't have a handle on the complexity. Your heuristics seem useful. I've been just trying stuff for a month and seeing how they go. Trusting the professionals to guide me in semi-useful directions. Thanks.
  - starchild_3001 8y ago
    There's a whole group of people who're benefit from eliminating histamins, FODMAPs etc---and even any form of fiber, which probably you already know. Check out carnivores (again if you don't know yet): https://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/.. https://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/... there're facebook groups with many 10ks of members. Another is Dr Ray Peat adherents. They essentially cut out everything but orange juice and milk and meat... :) Curious sort of people. Might give you some ideas. What works for my "aging" problems (age 40)? Carnivore diet helps to some degree (with weight, testosterone, energy etc). LLLT on the head works really well for me to boost mental acuity, or any form of stimulating light (10k lux lightlamp). It's has been life changing for the past 1.5 years (LLLT device costs $30). https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/my-review-of-lllt/ https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/my-review-of-lllt/ Best of luck!
    - atomical 8y ago
      It's a great option for people obsessed with pseudoscience I suppose.
      - Nomentatus 8y ago
        low-FODMAPs are University (Monash) science, peer reviewed - if you know of contrary recent studies, please drop some URLs. Mere gainsaying and vituperation is never a contribution to a discussion. One article that comes to hand: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensitivity-isnt-celiac-disease/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensiti...
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - wolco 8y ago
        For a number of people the earth being round was pseudoscience until it wasn't
    - gnoppa 8y ago
      Yes, going carnivore led to a massive improvement of my health. I am curious about LLLT, sounds a bit like wishful thinking to me but I'd like to try it out. Where would I get a cheap device to play around with and do you use it like stated in the selfhacked article?
  - alan_wade 8y ago
    Hi! Thank you so much for sharing! I'm suffering from somehing similar. Did you look into Candida? A lot of the symptoms sound very similar. H. Pylori antibiotics could have killed off good intestinal flora, causing candida overgrowth. Could you describe what other changes did you make, aside from adding S. Boulardii? Diet, supplements, medications? What helped you the most?
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      Candida is what a lot of people assume it is, but there's really no way to know for certain what microorganism is imbalanced in your gut, so like many people I started off thinking it was Candida but then moved to more general approach as I learned more (and learned of many, many things other than Candida that could be the problem). It is ultimately very limiting to assume that it's Candida; you'll find most people who think their problem is Candida struggle a lot and the suggested protocols for treating it do not seem to work very well. You are right to assume that the problem is fungal, since it started after antibiotic therapy, but I find that fermentation of any kind makes me sick - even supposedly anti-candida things made me worse if they were fermented (claimed to provide tons of antifungal probiotics). I have had much better results admitting that I do not know the actual imbalance, and thinking of this as a known unknown. The supplements that helped me most were caprylic acid (for reducing gut dysbiosis) and S. Boulardii, even though you cannot take both at the same time (the former weakens the latter). I also benefited greatly from taking nutritional supplements to top off any deficiencies of vitamins and minerals I might have had, but I do not take these things continuously, because supplements usually have specific forms of ingredients that may compete with others - for example, you'll often find Vitamin E as alpha-tocopherol, which is OK for topping off your levels but in the long run, it depletes other forms of Vitamin E such as tocotrienols and other tocopherols. See my other comments for more details, I wrote quite a bit.
CM30 8y ago
> I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior. That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe. Of course, this all causes issues for society since (for good or bad), a stable society kinda needs to at least pretend humanity have some general sense of free will otherwise a lot of things (like the aforementioned justice system) stop making sense.
- impy 8y ago
  > That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe. I'd like to know more about this. Do you have sources for these?
  - brendanmc6 8y ago
    Sam Harris explores these topics in his book Free Will, I wasn't blown away by the read but would still recommended it if you already find yourself fascinated by the discussion.
- baddox 8y ago
  Isn’t this only “trouble” if you think of legal penalties like imprisonment only as punishment for your choices? If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant.
  - jhayward 8y ago
    > If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant. They are very relevant, because then the question becomes "how do we best protect everyone, including the offender". It's highly unlikely that imprisonment is an appropriate medical treatment or harm minimization procedure for a medical condition.
wufufufu 8y ago
I don't see that species in the article. How did you learn about that tropical species of yeast, and how long have you been taking it? What was your digestion/appetite like with and without that supplement?
- kaitai 8y ago
  Not the parent poster, but I learned about S Boulardii from some German studies of probiotics. Boulardii at one point was one of the few that showed benefits in randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials. That was a while ago so don't know what the state of the research is now.
redcalx 8y ago
I am very interested in learning more. I will Google etc. of course, but if there are links, blog posts or bits of info you would be willing to share I would be most grateful. Thanks.
erikpukinskis 8y ago
It also casts religions with dietary restrictions in an interesting light.
- jlg23 8y ago
  Which major religion forbids yeast intake (and how would you guarantee that) and from which angle does one shine light on a people united in faith but with distinct local food (and yeast) sources to make it "interesting"?
  - codeddesign 8y ago
    Look at the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Their belief isn’t necessarily yeast but dietary standards in general. Promotion of a vegetarian/vegan diet, and removal of alcohol, coffee, and sugar since the late 1800’s. As far as I know the dietary standards include the promotion of the effects of gut bateria, and the ill effects of eating things like warm bread but not necessarily removal of yeast.
    - celticninja 8y ago
      I don't think that seventh day Adventist church is necessarily an example of being we'll adjusted
      - atomical 8y ago
        Just living the longest.
    - atomical 8y ago
      You're really reaching here.
  - justinator 8y ago
    The Catholic Church uses unleavened bread for the Host. It's symbolic, but somewhat of an interest in this thread.
nyc111 8y ago
@theprotocol thanks for this detailed explanation. Very helpful.
- dcx 8y ago
  Adding my thanks to this. I have IBS and have done a ton of self-experimentation over the years to fix my symptoms (with reasonable success). I totally get what you mean about free will and being unable to think straight when your digestive system is not managed. This is an interesting pathway that I had not discovered yet; from my initial reading it looks like the mycobiome is somewhat at the cutting edge [1]. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/6/1/22/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/6/1/22/htm
gboudrias 8y ago
Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows for a certain social stability, to the detriment of some in favor of others.
- berberous 8y ago
  I tend to be a bleeding heart and agree that many cases of criminal behavior are mental illness or environment/circumstances, but I still think there is a spectrum of morality out there -- not sure what you mean by "evil" exactly, but certainly a spectrum where people can range from high on empathy and kindness to those who care much less about others and are more amoral or even sociopathic.
  - hnuser1234 8y ago
    I agree, but let's go deeper... I'd wager is there is a way to rank "empathy/kindness" in a more objective way, and that the current social environment is distanced from that objectivity. Now even if we could perfectly, objectively rank it, should we immediately jail the bottom 1/3/10%, or should we wait for them to commit a crime? Should we give lighter sentences to more empathetic people who commit crimes, assuming they had better reasons to do it?
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      We are starting to understand the parts of the brain that empathy originates from. The whole question gets more complicated when you realise that these regions could be diminished through no fault of the individual.
- ohiovr 8y ago
  Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch when the sketch artist police admit society is to blame and proceed to arrest everyone.
harigov 8y ago
Have you tried helminthic therapy by any chance? Also would you care to share your current treatment protocol? I am in a similar position with lots of dietary allergies and I am considering doing helminthic therapy because it seems to have a lot of success stories.
yellowbuilding 8y ago
Can you recommend a brand?
seren 8y ago
On your second point, there is an article on The Atlantic, that is worth reading in my opinion : the Brain on Trial (2011) [0] It explores some case of brain malfunction leading to various criminal cases and what it means for free will (or lack of). Really makes you wonder what freedom do we really have. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/the-brain-on-trial/308520/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/the-bra...

amelius 8y ago

How did you find out?

theprotocol 8y ago
I figured out that my problems were related to intestinal microflora because they became ten times worse after undergoing 3 courses of H. Pylori eradication therapy in the span of only a few months, and I never improved for years afterwards. That's the short version; in reality, I suffered for a decade and a half before I caught on that I could do something about it, and it took about 5 years after that to get any kind of positive result (which gave me the confidence to pursue it more seriously). S. Boulardii is fairly widely known as having a pretty broad range of positive effects, so trying it out was a no-brainer. I have tried many, many things over the years and have improved greatly. On a related note, it is common to assume that confirmation bias or the placebo effect would distort my judgment, but it turns out I am objective to a fault, as any objectively measurable intervention that I thought worked was later tested experimentally and confirmed my results. There is actually nothing wrong with taking a guerrilla approach to health if doctors can't help you, as long as you don't fall for the "alternative for alternative's sake" fallacy, and are willing to bear the costs of iterating through the most promising interventions and not being disappointed when most of them fail.
- whitepoplar 8y ago
  Did you adjust your diet, or are you taking supplements?
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    Both. Regarding diet, I started observing the effects of everything I ate and adjusting accordingly, somewhat like an elimination diet. I was actually really clueless at first and had numerous deficiencies as a tradeoff for some of the symptoms disappearing (which was great but not sustainable). Over the span of years, this has improved and today I have no deficiencies and only relatively mild symptoms remain. The biggest breakthrough was limiting fermentation, by taking the FODMAP IBS diet to its natural conclusion, and eliminating everything that would ferment (and thus increase intestinal microorganisms, which for me were imbalanced). What prompted me to do this was trying 2 similar probiotic formulations, only one of which had FOS. The one with FOS caused a huge flare up. So I greatly reduced fermentable things ("resistant starches," "soluble fiber," "FOS," "FODMAPs", fructans, sugar alcohols...). Caprylic acid supplementation really reduced fermentation whenever I made a dietary mistake. I googled that idea and found the blog of Dr. Norm Robillard which advocates for a similar low-fermentation diet. Interestingly, the people who commented on his site seemed to divide into 2 camps: low-fermentation people vs. those who did well on the opposite diet (high starch / fermented foods). Adding S. Boulardii then reduced my symptoms further (brain fog, chronic intestinal inflammation) and I feel pretty decent now. I cannot yet figure out how to make it so my intestinal microflora is balanced enough that eating fermented and/or fermentable foods wouldn't destroy me. I'm still working on that in my spare time.
    - hugelgupf 8y ago
      Brain fog, intestinal inflammation. Sounds so very familiar. Do you have research notes, on methodology and things tried? I'm now very curious for myself.
      - theprotocol 8y ago
        I don't have notes per se, and I am afraid to say something that can be considered advice. I can answer any question you might have though (assuming it's appropriate for me to do so here, I hope I don't annoy HN users).
- sametmax 8y ago
  I'm very interested in your experience. Few questions: - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ? - did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ? And if you ever have the time, can you give a long explaination text about your overall experience ? That's the kind of information I'm mining hard for. I do understand it takes time and also that you are not a doctor and cannot be considered a representative sample. But it's very interesting and hard to find information.
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    I didn't expect this level of attention at all. I hope it is appropriate for me to respond. - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? Intestinal "well-being," feeling I can almost forget about my intestines, whereas normally my abdomen always hurts very badly, to the point my entire body is straining in reaction to it. This is only in combination with the other measures I took; S. Boulardii alone is insufficient. Whenever my intestines felt fine, my head felt clear and my nose/sinuses would stop being congested; and vice versa. This phenomenon has been consistent throughout my illness and has led many a doctor to scratch his/her head and/or not take me seriously. I tried doubling the dose after reading about that on the net (some people take 25m+ CFUs), but it gave me dryness/constipation and resulted in diverticulitis so I gave that up. - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? Only as part of larger probiotic formulations. I don't tolerate most and I'm not sure why. It may be that some strains produce histamines or include FOS (when I iterated through probiotic products, I was not aware of FOS - please see my other reply below where I discuss FOS). So I don't have any experience with it. - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? I take KAL S. Boulardii (ordered from iherb). I use veg. capsules because of a bias I have: I had bad side effects to a few liquid probiotic formulations I tried early on, so I ended up avoiding them as a general rule (which might be invalid but I have no further need to re-test it). - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ? The reason I got the treatment in the first place was chronic inflammation in the stomach and intestines. I also had severe chronic sinus inflammation (enlarged turbinates specifically) that never abated, and a very bad response to histamines (redness, itching). I had asthma-like throat constriction; a doctor once told me "of course your heart rate's up, you're almost choking!" after I went in because I felt out of breath. I had a general drunken feeling, and would even get giddy at times. I have considered the possibility of auto-brewery syndrome, but there's no way to tell now. The doctor was a gastroenterologist so he focused on the digestive issues. After the eradication therapy, that all got much worse and I developed noticeable food intolerances. I think I was already sensitive to those foods, but not enough that I'd notice at the time. I specifically could no longer tolerate dairy and sugar at all, and I had to greatly limit harsh foods (acidic stuff like vinegar, or very salty foods) or else I'd get gastritis extremely quickly (confirmed on endoscopy). My scalp started to itch and lots of hair fell out in my crown area. I am better with dairy nowadays but still can't have sugar, and vinegar just destroys me (I guess because it is corrosive AND high in histamines). I also can barely eat acidic foods and have to avoid most of them. - did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ? I had always felt great until the age of 11, then it hit me and I started to have "attacks" which I didn't understand at the time, and doctors couldn't figure them out at all. I was given a bunch of things like nasal steroids for the sinus issues, and some symptomatic treatment for the stomach. I felt so terrible though, literally like I was dying. I imagine waterboarding feels like that, because I just felt like I was unable to breathe adequately and even though it wasn't visible, I felt like I was making a contorted face all the time because of the feeling of straining. I kept asking for help but after doctors couldn't find anything, my parents began punishing me for what they thought was malingering (long story there - but they are forgiven and we are on good terms now). I have some theories about what caused it but nothing concrete. I moved country (continent too, in fact) just 2 years prior and hygiene was far worse. I went through several bouts of gastroenteritis. I also got a salmonella immunization (capsule) and the doctor instructed my mom to open it up and release the powder in some milk, to make it easier for a child of my age to swallow it. I got extremely sick with some kind flu-like illness + gastroenteritis after that, even though my siblings who took the same immunization did not get sick. Please see the reply I made below for some more details if you're interested edit: I forgot to mention something relevant that would relate my experience with the article. A while back I read an article written by an autistic man, in which he mentioned "face tightness" being part of his being autistic (I only made the connection later so I don't know how to find it again). I truly think there is something to that. I felt strained and neurotic whenever my symptoms flared up, and I was quite antisocial in high school, yet mellow on the few days my symptoms cleared up. edit: further details added. I typed this up a bit quickly (it's late here) so I had omitted some important things.
- nyc111 8y ago
  @theprotocol With your permission, I hope, I copied your comments to my wiki http://www.zeynel.a2hosted.com/index.php?title=Digestive_Health http://www.zeynel.a2hosted.com/index.php?title=Digestive_Hea... I think it will be useful to others as well to read them as a whole. I'll update if there are new relevant comments. Thanks!
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    Sure, but please note that it is not to be construed as advice, merely an example of what might work for someone, and that everyone is different (for instance, one of my posts mentions that a subset of people do extremely well on a diet opposite mine - high starch). edit: I've also not written anything about methodology, so I hope my writings have not given the impression that one can play fast and loose with supplements. I actually follow a safety-first approach, and I do this only after a doctor reaches a dead-end. General approach for evaluating supplements: 1- Find out about something that sounds promising, either by accident, or googling ideas and stumbling upon something that claims to improve your condition in some way. 2- Skim reputable sites (that cite research) listing the potential pros and cons of the supplement in question. Stop here if there is an unacceptable level of risk. 3- Skim any research about the supplement vs. your condition. 4- Read Amazon/iherb/other customer reviews for formulations of the supplement. Do not get excited. Most of these reviews are fake. What you are doing here is scoping out the ideal claimed outcome as a screening tool. If the ideal outcome is not worthwhile, stop here. 5- Dig into the research yourself. Confirm the level of risk. Check interactions. Determine whether there is a chance of the supplement working. 6- Purchase and test product. Remain objective. The baseline expectation is that nothing will work. Don't be emotional about that. I love having experience with products regardless of whether they work for me or not. I find it very interesting either way.
    - nyc111 8y ago
      > everyone is different Very true. I added your disclaimer.
      - CuriousSkeptic 8y ago
- acover 8y ago
  Do you think a survey of people with similar problems would have helped narrow down effective treatments? What about instead of sampling randomly selecting individuals to try a treatment? I'm often overwhelmed by the amount of information about options out there.
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    I think you'd have to reduce the problem set/space for that to be effective (which is a very similar concept to reducing how you define your state space in AI, if you're familiar with that). If the problem set has too many variables, I think it becomes too challenging to analyze. My approach is to rely very heavily on heuristics in order to screen potential treatments. I wrote some steps describing how to do that elsewhere in this thread.
    - acover 8y ago
      Yeah, I guess I really don't have a handle on the complexity. Your heuristics seem useful. I've been just trying stuff for a month and seeing how they go. Trusting the professionals to guide me in semi-useful directions. Thanks.
- starchild_3001 8y ago
  There's a whole group of people who're benefit from eliminating histamins, FODMAPs etc---and even any form of fiber, which probably you already know. Check out carnivores (again if you don't know yet): https://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/.. https://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/... there're facebook groups with many 10ks of members. Another is Dr Ray Peat adherents. They essentially cut out everything but orange juice and milk and meat... :) Curious sort of people. Might give you some ideas. What works for my "aging" problems (age 40)? Carnivore diet helps to some degree (with weight, testosterone, energy etc). LLLT on the head works really well for me to boost mental acuity, or any form of stimulating light (10k lux lightlamp). It's has been life changing for the past 1.5 years (LLLT device costs $30). https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/my-review-of-lllt/ https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/my-review-of-lllt/ Best of luck!
  - atomical 8y ago
    It's a great option for people obsessed with pseudoscience I suppose.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      low-FODMAPs are University (Monash) science, peer reviewed - if you know of contrary recent studies, please drop some URLs. Mere gainsaying and vituperation is never a contribution to a discussion. One article that comes to hand: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensitivity-isnt-celiac-disease/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensiti...
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - wolco 8y ago
      For a number of people the earth being round was pseudoscience until it wasn't
  - gnoppa 8y ago
    Yes, going carnivore led to a massive improvement of my health. I am curious about LLLT, sounds a bit like wishful thinking to me but I'd like to try it out. Where would I get a cheap device to play around with and do you use it like stated in the selfhacked article?
- alan_wade 8y ago
  Hi! Thank you so much for sharing! I'm suffering from somehing similar. Did you look into Candida? A lot of the symptoms sound very similar. H. Pylori antibiotics could have killed off good intestinal flora, causing candida overgrowth. Could you describe what other changes did you make, aside from adding S. Boulardii? Diet, supplements, medications? What helped you the most?
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    Candida is what a lot of people assume it is, but there's really no way to know for certain what microorganism is imbalanced in your gut, so like many people I started off thinking it was Candida but then moved to more general approach as I learned more (and learned of many, many things other than Candida that could be the problem). It is ultimately very limiting to assume that it's Candida; you'll find most people who think their problem is Candida struggle a lot and the suggested protocols for treating it do not seem to work very well. You are right to assume that the problem is fungal, since it started after antibiotic therapy, but I find that fermentation of any kind makes me sick - even supposedly anti-candida things made me worse if they were fermented (claimed to provide tons of antifungal probiotics). I have had much better results admitting that I do not know the actual imbalance, and thinking of this as a known unknown. The supplements that helped me most were caprylic acid (for reducing gut dysbiosis) and S. Boulardii, even though you cannot take both at the same time (the former weakens the latter). I also benefited greatly from taking nutritional supplements to top off any deficiencies of vitamins and minerals I might have had, but I do not take these things continuously, because supplements usually have specific forms of ingredients that may compete with others - for example, you'll often find Vitamin E as alpha-tocopherol, which is OK for topping off your levels but in the long run, it depletes other forms of Vitamin E such as tocotrienols and other tocopherols. See my other comments for more details, I wrote quite a bit.

CM30 8y ago

> I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior. That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe. Of course, this all causes issues for society since (for good or bad), a stable society kinda needs to at least pretend humanity have some general sense of free will otherwise a lot of things (like the aforementioned justice system) stop making sense.

impy 8y ago
> That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe. I'd like to know more about this. Do you have sources for these?
- brendanmc6 8y ago
  Sam Harris explores these topics in his book Free Will, I wasn't blown away by the read but would still recommended it if you already find yourself fascinated by the discussion.
baddox 8y ago
Isn’t this only “trouble” if you think of legal penalties like imprisonment only as punishment for your choices? If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant.
- jhayward 8y ago
  > If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant. They are very relevant, because then the question becomes "how do we best protect everyone, including the offender". It's highly unlikely that imprisonment is an appropriate medical treatment or harm minimization procedure for a medical condition.

wufufufu 8y ago

I don't see that species in the article. How did you learn about that tropical species of yeast, and how long have you been taking it? What was your digestion/appetite like with and without that supplement?

kaitai 8y ago
Not the parent poster, but I learned about S Boulardii from some German studies of probiotics. Boulardii at one point was one of the few that showed benefits in randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials. That was a while ago so don't know what the state of the research is now.

redcalx 8y ago

I am very interested in learning more. I will Google etc. of course, but if there are links, blog posts or bits of info you would be willing to share I would be most grateful. Thanks.

erikpukinskis 8y ago

It also casts religions with dietary restrictions in an interesting light.

jlg23 8y ago
Which major religion forbids yeast intake (and how would you guarantee that) and from which angle does one shine light on a people united in faith but with distinct local food (and yeast) sources to make it "interesting"?
- codeddesign 8y ago
  Look at the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Their belief isn’t necessarily yeast but dietary standards in general. Promotion of a vegetarian/vegan diet, and removal of alcohol, coffee, and sugar since the late 1800’s. As far as I know the dietary standards include the promotion of the effects of gut bateria, and the ill effects of eating things like warm bread but not necessarily removal of yeast.
  - celticninja 8y ago
    I don't think that seventh day Adventist church is necessarily an example of being we'll adjusted
    - atomical 8y ago
      Just living the longest.
  - atomical 8y ago
    You're really reaching here.
- justinator 8y ago
  The Catholic Church uses unleavened bread for the Host. It's symbolic, but somewhat of an interest in this thread.

nyc111 8y ago

@theprotocol thanks for this detailed explanation. Very helpful.

dcx 8y ago
Adding my thanks to this. I have IBS and have done a ton of self-experimentation over the years to fix my symptoms (with reasonable success). I totally get what you mean about free will and being unable to think straight when your digestive system is not managed. This is an interesting pathway that I had not discovered yet; from my initial reading it looks like the mycobiome is somewhat at the cutting edge [1]. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/6/1/22/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/6/1/22/htm

gboudrias 8y ago

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows for a certain social stability, to the detriment of some in favor of others.

berberous 8y ago
I tend to be a bleeding heart and agree that many cases of criminal behavior are mental illness or environment/circumstances, but I still think there is a spectrum of morality out there -- not sure what you mean by "evil" exactly, but certainly a spectrum where people can range from high on empathy and kindness to those who care much less about others and are more amoral or even sociopathic.
- hnuser1234 8y ago
  I agree, but let's go deeper... I'd wager is there is a way to rank "empathy/kindness" in a more objective way, and that the current social environment is distanced from that objectivity. Now even if we could perfectly, objectively rank it, should we immediately jail the bottom 1/3/10%, or should we wait for them to commit a crime? Should we give lighter sentences to more empathetic people who commit crimes, assuming they had better reasons to do it?
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    We are starting to understand the parts of the brain that empathy originates from. The whole question gets more complicated when you realise that these regions could be diminished through no fault of the individual.
ohiovr 8y ago
Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch when the sketch artist police admit society is to blame and proceed to arrest everyone.

harigov 8y ago

Have you tried helminthic therapy by any chance? Also would you care to share your current treatment protocol? I am in a similar position with lots of dietary allergies and I am considering doing helminthic therapy because it seems to have a lot of success stories.

yellowbuilding 8y ago

Can you recommend a brand?

seren 8y ago

On your second point, there is an article on The Atlantic, that is worth reading in my opinion : the Brain on Trial (2011) [0] It explores some case of brain malfunction leading to various criminal cases and what it means for free will (or lack of). Really makes you wonder what freedom do we really have. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/the-brain-on-trial/308520/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/the-bra...