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> However if they sell an electric car they are going to see that car less often. This is something many people don't get. There are far, far less parts (movi

> However if they sell an electric car they are going to see that car less often. This is something many people don't get. There are far, far less parts (moving ones even) in EVs. Things like spark plugs(and the cables), fuel injectors, filters, alternators, fuel pumps, the myriad of belts and pulleys, valves. They don't even have a crankshaft. Or a clutch. Or much of a transmission for that matter. Power steering is generally electric too (no fluid or pumps there either), as is climate control. Even radiators are not usually present (maybe in the batteries, used far less often, mostly when charging). It does have a bunch more electronics, all solid state. Even the normal lead acid 12v battery they all have lasts longer, as there is no starter motor to pull lots of amps at once (they are also more gently topped off). Parts that cannot exist cannot fail, and cannot be charged. Were not for the battery degradation ghost, people would be switching in droves already. But they are familiar with laptop batteries, and they think car batteries degrade the same way. If the day comes where you can just drive to an autozone or the like, give them your old battery and drive off with a new one at a reasonable price, that's when things will suddenly shift.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
The brakes on an EV will last the life of the vehicle due to aggressive regeneration (even our Camry Hybrid, with almost 100k miles on it when it was totaled by a negligent driver, was still on the factory pads). Also, the brake system can be electrically actuated instead of with a hydraulic system. The 12v battery on Tesla vehicles is actually a deep cycle Li-ion battery in a traditional form factor (not lead acid); it's used for low voltage loads, and charged from the high voltage traction battery. There is a shock ahead for the entire automotive supply chain. It is important we manage the human impact appropriately.
- outworlder 8y ago
  Good point. The Leaf also has oversized brake pads for when there is no regenerative breaking (battery is close to full).
- amelius 8y ago
  > It is important we manage the human impact appropriately. And the chances of that actually happening?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - pacificmint 8y ago
    > And the chances of that actually happening? In the country where VW is headquartered? Not all that bad, I'd think. In the US? Much worse, if history is any indication.
- sizzle 8y ago
  What about rotors?
j79 8y ago
> Were not for the battery degradation ghost, people would be switching in droves already. When you say people, are you referring to people who are in a position where they could buy an electric car, but have not yet? I personally feel the vast majority of people have not switched because: 1) Cost 2) Options (we're a country that loves SUVs/Trucks) 3) Housing / Charging Funny enough, I could probably afford an electric vehicle, but I have no way of charging that vehicle due to my housing situation.
- outworlder 8y ago
  I'm assuming you can't charge at you workplace either. In that case, it would be best to wait for a bit. For a while, I was charging in the garage in my rental condo. They had a normal 110v power socket. Would take forever to charge from zero, but it was more than enough to offset a 25 mile commute each way(at around 4 miles/h) Cost is still an issue, indeed.
  - chrisweekly 8y ago
    > "25 mile commute each way(at around 4 miles/h)" That'd be 12h/day commuting, innit?
    - btilly 8y ago
      The 4 mph refers to "4 miles of additional range per hour charging".
      - chrisweekly 8y ago
        That makes much more sense. ;)
- zjaffee 8y ago
  3 is huge, if you're a renter, why would you buy a car where you have no idea if you'll be able to charge it should you move. I'd also add on the fact that you still can't reasonably take road trips with an electric car in the same way you can with a traditional one.
mrfusion 8y ago
Why would power steering work differently?
- pacificmint 8y ago
  In a ICE car you take energy from the engine to pump hydraulic fluid to power the steering. That makes no sense in an electric car. Instead you'd drive the power steering directly with electric motors.
mmirate 8y ago
> Were not for the battery degradation ghost, people would be switching in droves already. But they are familiar with laptop batteries, and they think car batteries degrade the same way. Don't they? Elsewhere in this thread it is said that these batteries are still some kind of lithium/polymer tech, so unless the capacity is severely artificially-restricted in both directions from the optimum storage charge, (a) it becomes dangerous and unusable when fully discharged and (b) it loses capacity continuously whenever it's close to full charge, even faster if it is at full charge with the power-source left connected.
WalterBright 8y ago
Ironically, my old electromechanical appliances lasted decades longer than the computerized ones. The motherboard in them is always failing and costs $$$$ to replace. The camwheel with contact switches works forever.
- Hextinium 8y ago
  Its because the engineering tollerances on new appliances are tiny, I recently installed an oven and the sheet metal couldnt be more than 1/16' thick (1.5mm). I was stunned by the fact i could probably punch through it.
sizzle 8y ago
Good riddance, consumers are tired of paying for all those parts and being nickle and dimed at the dealership, affectionately know as the "stealership" on most online car forums.
Gravityloss 8y ago
It's one of the most repeated things on HN. Yet, the Tesla maintenance program is surprisingly expensive, more than a thousand dollars per year. Maybe, no matter what the technology, if you have vendor lock, that is just the case. No idea if it's internally profitable for Tesla or not. I also don't know how it's for something like Nissan Leaf. The majority of people currently drive petrol / diesel cars that are old enough to be out of warranty (also the warranties are shorter, which is of course not a good thing). They have way way lower maintenance costs because there is free choice where to have the car serviced and a huge pool of personnel with the skill to do it. Even if you take your car to the dealership for maintenance, their prices are still influenced by the competition. My city probably has a hundred places where I can have my oil changed. But who buys a 100,000 dollar car with the idea of saving some hundreds of dollars per year in maintenance costs anyway? Be it BMW or Tesla. It's a red herring. We'll have to see how the maintenance industry will be for older and more main stream electric cars.
- usaar333 8y ago
  > But who buys a 100,000 dollar car with the idea of saving some hundreds of dollars per year in maintenance costs anyway? Reliability saves on time cost and uncertainty, as well as monetary costs.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

The brakes on an EV will last the life of the vehicle due to aggressive regeneration (even our Camry Hybrid, with almost 100k miles on it when it was totaled by a negligent driver, was still on the factory pads). Also, the brake system can be electrically actuated instead of with a hydraulic system. The 12v battery on Tesla vehicles is actually a deep cycle Li-ion battery in a traditional form factor (not lead acid); it's used for low voltage loads, and charged from the high voltage traction battery. There is a shock ahead for the entire automotive supply chain. It is important we manage the human impact appropriately.

outworlder 8y ago
Good point. The Leaf also has oversized brake pads for when there is no regenerative breaking (battery is close to full).
amelius 8y ago
> It is important we manage the human impact appropriately. And the chances of that actually happening?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- pacificmint 8y ago
  > And the chances of that actually happening? In the country where VW is headquartered? Not all that bad, I'd think. In the US? Much worse, if history is any indication.
sizzle 8y ago
What about rotors?

j79 8y ago

> Were not for the battery degradation ghost, people would be switching in droves already. When you say people, are you referring to people who are in a position where they could buy an electric car, but have not yet? I personally feel the vast majority of people have not switched because: 1) Cost 2) Options (we're a country that loves SUVs/Trucks) 3) Housing / Charging Funny enough, I could probably afford an electric vehicle, but I have no way of charging that vehicle due to my housing situation.

outworlder 8y ago
I'm assuming you can't charge at you workplace either. In that case, it would be best to wait for a bit. For a while, I was charging in the garage in my rental condo. They had a normal 110v power socket. Would take forever to charge from zero, but it was more than enough to offset a 25 mile commute each way(at around 4 miles/h) Cost is still an issue, indeed.
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  > "25 mile commute each way(at around 4 miles/h)" That'd be 12h/day commuting, innit?
  - btilly 8y ago
    The 4 mph refers to "4 miles of additional range per hour charging".
    - chrisweekly 8y ago
      That makes much more sense. ;)
zjaffee 8y ago
3 is huge, if you're a renter, why would you buy a car where you have no idea if you'll be able to charge it should you move. I'd also add on the fact that you still can't reasonably take road trips with an electric car in the same way you can with a traditional one.

mrfusion 8y ago

Why would power steering work differently?

pacificmint 8y ago
In a ICE car you take energy from the engine to pump hydraulic fluid to power the steering. That makes no sense in an electric car. Instead you'd drive the power steering directly with electric motors.

mmirate 8y ago

> Were not for the battery degradation ghost, people would be switching in droves already. But they are familiar with laptop batteries, and they think car batteries degrade the same way. Don't they? Elsewhere in this thread it is said that these batteries are still some kind of lithium/polymer tech, so unless the capacity is severely artificially-restricted in both directions from the optimum storage charge, (a) it becomes dangerous and unusable when fully discharged and (b) it loses capacity continuously whenever it's close to full charge, even faster if it is at full charge with the power-source left connected.

WalterBright 8y ago

Ironically, my old electromechanical appliances lasted decades longer than the computerized ones. The motherboard in them is always failing and costs $$$$ to replace. The camwheel with contact switches works forever.

Hextinium 8y ago
Its because the engineering tollerances on new appliances are tiny, I recently installed an oven and the sheet metal couldnt be more than 1/16' thick (1.5mm). I was stunned by the fact i could probably punch through it.

sizzle 8y ago

Good riddance, consumers are tired of paying for all those parts and being nickle and dimed at the dealership, affectionately know as the "stealership" on most online car forums.

Gravityloss 8y ago

It's one of the most repeated things on HN. Yet, the Tesla maintenance program is surprisingly expensive, more than a thousand dollars per year. Maybe, no matter what the technology, if you have vendor lock, that is just the case. No idea if it's internally profitable for Tesla or not. I also don't know how it's for something like Nissan Leaf. The majority of people currently drive petrol / diesel cars that are old enough to be out of warranty (also the warranties are shorter, which is of course not a good thing). They have way way lower maintenance costs because there is free choice where to have the car serviced and a huge pool of personnel with the skill to do it. Even if you take your car to the dealership for maintenance, their prices are still influenced by the competition. My city probably has a hundred places where I can have my oil changed. But who buys a 100,000 dollar car with the idea of saving some hundreds of dollars per year in maintenance costs anyway? Be it BMW or Tesla. It's a red herring. We'll have to see how the maintenance industry will be for older and more main stream electric cars.

usaar333 8y ago
> But who buys a 100,000 dollar car with the idea of saving some hundreds of dollars per year in maintenance costs anyway? Reliability saves on time cost and uncertainty, as well as monetary costs.