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Biometrics are creeping into everyday life. One of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access. Another local gym
by PaulKeeble 8y ago
Biometrics are creeping into everyday life. One of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access. Another local gym uses facial recognition for entrance, although you can choose to have a member card instead if you ask for it directly, they don't list it as an option.
Thankfully in the EU we have GDPR. It considers biometrics as a similar sensitivity to medical data, so unless you genuinely need it (maybe a hospital) then you can only get it with explicit consent. If consent is not given then that can not bar you from service.
So I reported a company to the ICO this week for the introduction of fingerprint scanners and was assured they consider it was a breach and will deal with them. GDPR isn't perfect and I think defaulting to consent is wrong and alternatives must be called out but you can't help people sleeping walking into it, it is very convenient.
- 21 8y ago> If consent is not given then that can not bar you from service. But they probably can increase the price to cover "administrative costs/..."
- Barrin92 8y agoin somewhat functional markets that are subject to competition, companies cannot arbitrarily raise prices.
- notduncansmith 8y agoIn markets where a "Privacy Fee" is considered standard, the price raise will not be considered arbitrary. I fear this is a potential reality.
- seanf 8y agoMy gym also uses facial recognition, but does it via a person sitting behind a desk checking that my member ID matches my face. I don't think many people are uncomfortable with this process, and this biometric method has been used for a long time.
- hbbio 8y agoYes, but there are few chances that the person sitting behind the deck will be the target of a brain cyberattack!
- Nikaoto 8y agoYes, but that person can't copy your biometric data stored in their brain, convert it to a standardized format, and distribute it to millions of other devices.
- seanf 8y agoYou mean like a photo?
- Nikaoto 8y agoThey would have to use a camera, which you would have to allow.
- nathancahill 8y agoEvery gym I've joined snaps your picture when you sign up.
- tokyodude 8y agonot yet but that day is coming soon. https://after-on.com/episodes-31-60/039 https://after-on.com/episodes-31-60/039
- bilbo0s 8y ago
- vinay427 8y agoSort of a tangent, but I wonder if there are any EU countries that have mandatory biometric ID cards. After a cursory (5-10 minute) search I found countries that either used to have ID cards but currently don't, used to have biometric ID cards but currently don't require biometrics, or have biometric ID cards that are optional. It does seem likely that in the future some country will, if it hasn't already, concede and mandate ID cards that contain biometrics. Practically, anyway, GDPR seems like a much more effective measure.
- jackpirate 8y agoThe vast majority of countries (EU or not) only issue biometric passports these days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_u...
- paganel 8y agoThere are still some loopholes which one can use in order to escape this, but they’re getting fewer and fewer. For example here in Romania they don’t ask you for your biometric data if you apply for a short-term one-year passport, but the issue is that over time going that way is more expensive than directly applying for a 5-year or 10-year passport (which do ask for your biometric data). And loopholes like this one will close pretty soon, I fear.
- narag 8y agoSpain. I've owned a government issued ID with my fingerprints for forty years. That's no tragedy, believe me. I don't want government to have certain data and I don't want private companies to have other data. If you think about identity as a right, you might start to see things under a different light. For many private actions companies demand ID number. That reduces identity theft to a bad movie plot.
- thinkloop 8y agoHow does this prevent identity theft, do the private companies verify the fingerprints?
- criddell 8y agoDisneyland Paris doesn't use biometrics?
- amelius 8y agoMy datacenter uses biometrics too.
- zoul 8y agoIf consent is not given then that can not bar you from service. What’s the reasoning for this? Shouldn’t I have the freedom to pick the conditions under which I offer my services, except for discrimination? Is it discrimination if I only offer biometric ID, say for business convenience?
- MereInterest 8y agoThe same reason that you aren't allowed to mix sawdust into the flour you sell, even if it is cheaper. Having a business incentive does not mean that you have a moral justification.
- Kiro 8y agoWhat's the moral justification here? Most people love biotmetrics.
- legulere 8y agoWhat you describe is called freedom of contract, which has the problem that it's the opposite of free when you have inequal parties. For most people contracts have a take it or leave it character, so there needs to be government regulation, to ensure freedom for them.
- tengbretson 8y agoCalling an imbalance of leverage "the opposite of free" is peak absurdity.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- zjaffee 8y agoThere already is regulation around storing biometrics in a few states, Ohio and Texas if I remember correctly, and in turn, most national companies avoid storing this data all together because of the risk it causes should people move between those states.
- Angostura 8y agoI wonder what the implications are for the large number of secondary schools that now apparently use fingerprint biometrics for school meal payments.
- masonic 8y agoOne of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access If this is a membership gym with contracts, wouldn't they have to wait until your next contract to impose such a change?
- matt4077 8y agoI'd say probably not, but it would likely allow you to cancel your membership early (and receive paid fees back, pro-rated). This is actually a nice hypothetical for that idiotic vision of replacing law and the court system with algorithms. It's extremely unlikely that the specific case would be foreseen in a contract. There is a continuous spectrum of such changes, and it's impossible to formulate any specific rule that would capture them all. Example A: The gym changes from keys to plastic membership cards. Would this be a breach of contract? I think most everyone would agree that no, it isn't. Example B: The gym requires whole-genome sequencing (once), then requires a drop of blood every time you enter to check your identity? Breach of contract? -> Obviously. For any two such changes, you can probably come up with yet another example that's somewhere in between. The closer they get, the more often you will find people disagreeing, yes. But that just shows how justice is a constant conversation not easily set in stone. As for the specific case: European law really doesn't like biometric data, and it's unlikely they can get away with it. (the following is based only on my knowledge of German and Portuguese law) BUT, ) if they do, the pro-rated refund is the most likely outcome. It works both ways, though: if you move away, they also cannot require you to keep paying fees. It's a concept loosely translated as a "cessation of the foundational requirements of the contract).
- Paperweight 8y agoBiometrics are the future equivalent of using the same password everywhere.
- bergerjac 8y agoIt seems more like 2FA using body parts instead of a phone.
- bo1024 8y agoI think the main concern with biometrics is surveillance. Not as much the security problems associated with using the same password everywhere.
- buboard 8y agoi think the implication is that, because it is insecure, it will not be deployed everywhere.
- bo1024 8y agoHmm, I'm not sure that makes sense, since a lot of the deployments we're concerned about don't involve authentication (using biometrics in place of passwords), but other kinds of surveillance.
- tcarn 8y agoI really hope the politicians in the US champion a GDPR law here. Unfortunately I'm not optimistic.
- ilovetux 8y agoyou know, after saying something like this, you have to vote :P
- BurningFrog 8y agoFacial recognition for gym entrance sounds wonderful! If that's banned I'll be in the Resistance!
- whazor 8y agoIndeed, privacy-wise it is equivalent to having cameras recording. But convenience wise it is brilliant, when I want to do sports.. I do not want to bring keys or gym cards, just sports clothes
- thinkloop 8y agoFar from equivalent my friend. Going through tapes is a manual laborious process that can only be done on a case-by-case basis. Transforming tapes into perfect database line-items that can be combined into a comprehensive profile on all your activities and whereabouts is a much more valuable and dangerous data set.