13 ms·

Yes, You Should Walk Your Cat

115 points by veganjay 8y ago

gaspoweredcat 8y ago
Umm no, a thousand times no, first off my cat walks himself, he is free to come and go as he pleases. second and most importantly if you value your flesh actually being attached to your skeleton youd be wise to not attempt to put a lead on my cat, he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness
- mabbo 8y ago
  > he is free to come and go as he pleases The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds. A lot of them. Some species may be risking extinction. Plus, if you live in a condo 13 stories up, that's not possible. > he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness Takes time and effort, but cats are trainable. I grew up with a murder-mitted beast who didn't put up with anything. My cats now, I take the time to train them rather than let them be violent.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    > The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds. How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats? Are you worried about the cat's immortal soul? Or is it more that you just think cats are a problem in general, but you'd prefer to make the claim more specific than that here?
    - hueving 8y ago
      >How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats? It's answered in the same post you just quoted. They hunt so many birds they are destructive to the environment and are driving some to extinction.
      - triplesec 8y ago
        Do you have a source to back up that claim? Australia has specific problems with cats, but apart from that, without evidence to the contrary, i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife. There are more pressing issues to do with birds, mostly involving loss of hedgerows and tree habitats from 'development', and climate change.
        hueving 8y ago
        >i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife The massive numbers of them are the problem. The only other pet as common is a dog and they don't hunt birds just for the sake of hunting like many cats do.
      - thaumasiotes 8y ago
        That sounds like a problem with outdoor cats. Why call out indoor/outdoor cats? The only part of the complaint specific to indoor/outdoor cats is that they hunt even though a human will feed them. That's a complaint about the cats' morality, not a complaint about their effects. It also assumes without justification that humans don't feed their outdoor cats.
        hueving 8y ago
        Cats hunting is a problem regardless of whether or not there are fed. It has zero to do with their 'morality'. The problem is any cats that wander around killing multiple birds. So many people have cats that even a small percentage of them doing this is super destructive to the local birds.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    Those species wouldn't be facing extinction if humans didn't destroy 90% of the habitat before letting the cats out. But sure, blame the cats.
    - anoncake 8y ago
      We're in no position to accuse cats of being an invasive species.
  - tdb7893 8y ago
    How many birds do they actually eat? The study I've seen has been mostly speculation as it's an incredibly hard thing to measure generally.
    - rhexs 8y ago
      Feel free to explore the sources here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife "Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. Scientifically sound conservation and policy intervention is needed to reduce this impact."
- matthewowen 8y ago
  You didn't read the article.
  - porphyrogene 8y ago
    You didn't read the Hacker News comment guidelines.
krackers 8y ago
I used to see my neighbor walking his cat on a leash every morning. It was always an amusing sight to behold, but the cat seemed alright with it. I think the practicality of it varies from individual cat to cat though.
eigenstuff 8y ago
My cat is indoors only and made a couple escape attempts that were a little traumatizing for me (helicopter cat mom here), so while I considered getting him a leash once, I ultimately decided against it because I was afraid it'd make him a little more comfortable with the outside world and might emboldened him to make more escape attempts in the future. Not happening in a rural place where there's coyotes, oh hell no. So instead of walks, we play catch. I wad up paper scraps and throw them and he'll leap into the air to catch them with his paws or swat them away. His ability to catch is honestly amazing to me, he gets it the vast majority of the time, and sometimes he'll leap a good 3 feet in the air, it's super impressive. It's also extremely entertaining! I have a lot of fun with "cat baseball practice", and I think the reason he's so responsive to paper wads is because those were the only cat toys I had for him as a kitten, so every time he hears the sound of paper crumpling he perks up and comes running. He also loves diving into 12 pack cardboard boxes with the ends ripped off to make them into a tube. My living room floor is constantly covered in trash cat toys but I love it.
- mmagin 8y ago
  I also recommend cable ties (the long ones that won't be accidentally swallowed).
- Regardsyjc 8y ago
  My mom taught her cat to fetch with thin plastic rings the size of bracelets. She'd sort of chuck them like a mini Frisbee and her cat would swipe them out of the air like a pro athlete. She used to get her cat toys but they had a tendency of mysteriously disappearing forever.
  - krallja 8y ago
    They are all under the refrigerator. Guaranteed to find them, along with milk jug rings, hair ties, and other circles.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Your cat wants to go outside but you intentionally lock it in? That's abuse, even beyond the abuse that helicopter parenting entails.
dannykwells 8y ago
Took my cat for a walk once. Traumatized him so much he now just sits in the corner and talks to himself and chain smokes. Poor guy is still suffering flash backs of his time on the outside. Who can blame him?
- pweissbrod 8y ago
  Thats not healthy. I've convinced my cat to switch to vaping. Now, he only smokes when he drinks. But I'm a realist about this sort of thing.
reaperducer 8y ago
I had a cat who would walk on a leash. I had another one that liked going for "walks" where he would perch on my shoulder while I walked, like a pirate's parrot. My current cats aren't walkers. One hates the leash, and the other hates the mere idea of "outside."
marssaxman 8y ago
I tried this with my first ex-wife's cat, sixteen years ago. It didn't work out very well.
08-15 8y ago
> cats are a blight on ecosystems, killing countless [...] small mammals They do. Cats kill mice. And while domestic cats may have some difficulty killing rats, they definitely make life uncomfortable for rats. That's why the Egyptians decided 6000 years ago that cats are sacred. Killing "small animals" such as mice and rats is a good thing. Ever heard about the Black Death? It was spread by rats (their fleas, to be precise). Yes, if we somehow managed to drive mice and rats to extinction, that would "reduce biodiversity", but it would be a good thing.
- willnewman 8y ago
  It's likely they're referring to the effect outdoor cats have on bird populations. They're credited with the the extinction of 63 species: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/
  - wishinghand 8y ago
    And lizards.
  - Izkata 8y ago
    "mammals", though?
  - triplesec 8y ago
    These data only refer to island ecosystems like Australia. And this is all nonnative species, not just cats. This is entirely irrelevant to the issue of urban and suburban cats in the United States.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    The problem is this doesn't delineate very well between the feral and urban populations. While feral cats are enormously destructive to some ecosystems, and irresponsible pet ownership is obviously going to contribute to the feral cat population, it's far less clear that urban domestic cat populations contribute to ecosystem damage in any serious fashion - because far more damage was done when we went and paved over hundreds of sq miles of that ecosystem to build a city there.
Waterluvian 8y ago
I think one of the easier ways to do right by your cats is to always have two or more. When we got Gentle Ben, Max Power suddenly reverse-aged by like five years.
- davidgould 8y ago
  This. A lot of the reason people think cats are aloof or un-social is because they have only known solitary cats, who like people in solitary situations, are likely to be depressed and have other issues. I've had a number of cats over the years, but the best experience for me and for the cats has been with pairs from the same litter or who grow up together. It makes a huge difference when they have company.
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    Some cats do better with a companion, some are much happier when they are “only cats”. You have to know your cat well enough to know which is right for them.
    - amelius 8y ago
      Yes probably, but I wonder if that depends on the specific companion.
    - leetcrew 8y ago
      how do you figure this out if your cat has never met another cat since being a kitten at the shelter? I've considered having him meet a friend's cat, but I would imagine it takes a few weeks to really judge whether they're happier together.
      - davidgould 8y ago
        It depends, but if your cat is young and the cat you introduce is a kitten, and your cat is demanding a lot of play time from you, chances are a second cat will work. If your cat is old and cranky, not so much. It will definitely take a couple weeks of contact for them to work it out. Even if they don't get along particularly well, it still might be a net win.
notatcomputer68 8y ago
Grew up with an outdoor cat in a suburb with backyard. Would let her in when she wanted and out when she wanted. She would occasionally follow us on a walk without any invitation or leash. We were a little surprised "Do cats do that?" I think first time we tried to shoo her back but then we realized it was fine and just let her come with us. Worst that happened was one time a dog scared her up into a tree but she came down eventually. A neighboring family were not so lucky. Theirs kept getting run over by cars (Not because of walks just because of being outside).
porphyrogene 8y ago
If you have to trap an animal inside of your home at all times because if it had the chance it would run away forever and you would never see it again, what is the best word to describe relationship? I don't think "pet" is the right word. Having an animal like a cat live its life mostly indoors is contradictory to its nature and will likely have negative effects on its health. If you want to own an indoor cat that's fine but one should not be deluded into thinking that the animal's best interest is in living inside with occasional outdoor excursions on a tether.
- doughj3 8y ago
  > ... will likely have negative effects on its health Indoor cats have lifespans multiple times that of outdoor cats, so I think the alternative has negative effects on health, too.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    Outdoor cats do okay, the ones I grew up with lived to be 16 and 21. It depends on where you live, what predators they might have to face.
    - adetrest 8y ago
      Anecdote, data, all that.
    - leetcrew 8y ago
      that's great, but on average outdoor cats really do live much shorter lives. [0] [0] https://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indoor-cat-or-an-outdoor-cat https://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indo...
    - y4mi 8y ago
      My family had several cats over the time I grew up. All could go outside whenever they wanted. The oldest got to 8 yrs. Most died of organ failures, one from a genetic illness and another one never came back. The Organ failures were probably from rat poison... So, the outside killed them
henripro 8y ago
Tried this once with my old childhood cat. She hated it, and would wiggle out of the collar. What she would do is follow us around on walks in our suburban neighborhood leash free. She would usually stay a house or two behind us and run from hedge to hedge. We were worried that she would follow me all the way to school, when I started walking there, but we tested this, and she would refuse to cross a big street on the way.
Gys 8y ago
A problem with cats is their natural reaction to a leash: they start moving backwards, where dogs move forwards. It always fascinated me how different cats and dogs are, in many ways.
tmikaeld 8y ago
We tried this with a cat we had several years back. He had been an indoors cat his whole life. After a few very successful outdoor walks, he would sit at the door screaming until we let him out again and he didn't stop at night either... It became so bad that we had to place him at a new home at a farm where he can be outside as much as he wants. It's a better life for him for sure, even if we do miss him a lot it would be selfish to rob him of that desire for the outdoors.
- astral303 8y ago
  I’m so sorry for you and so happy for your cat! Good on you
  - tmikaeld 8y ago
    Thanks, I'm alright. I'm just happy that he's happy! :-)
- r-s 8y ago
  My father also sent my cat to a farm when I was young!
  - tmikaeld 8y ago
    That must have been hard to explain, but i bet the cat got it better - probably catching farm-mice ;-)
tscherno 8y ago
Our cat used to follow us without harness 2km in to the woods and back, but only in the night. :)
- EamonnMR 8y ago
  That sounds like fun for you and the cat. They love running around at night. Flashlights or night vision goggles?
alchemism 8y ago
I live in a urban area with a freight train line running along the back of the house, apart from any roadways or people. Trains run a few times a day, and are slow and massive. I take my three cats for an unleashed walk along the tracks a short way. They instinctively form a hunting party around me as we walk; they treat me like the platoon commander or some such. One is the scout, the senior maintains discipline, etc. At the first sign of a distant train, they inform me, and we go back to the yard and watch the train pass. They must consider them some kind of mighty, blind worms. It is not quite the same as a leash-walk through the forest, but I feel very lucky to have a little pocket for the cats to reveal their outdoor personalities in this way.
- ianai 8y ago
  That is one awesome thing to do with cats. Do you let them outside without you?
  - alchemism 8y ago
    Two of the cats are interested in exploring the back on their own, one will only step outside if I go. After escorting them for awhile when training them, I generally let them go. I think the randomness of the long trains deters them from going far, or even to the other side, and they understand that the yard square is “home base.” There is no chance anything larger than a fox from appearing this deep in the city, and there is enough foliage to escape a stray dog if it came along. So the train is the only threatening thing, which they are (appropriately) in awe of when it passes.
- elorant 8y ago
  Dude you need to capture this whole scene on a camera and upload it on YouTube. Sounds so exciting and entertaining to watch.
  - losteric 8y ago
    Seconding this request; the idea of domesticated cats behaving like this is kinda mind blowing, I've never seen that kind of ordered social behavior.
EamonnMR 8y ago
Our cat was indoor/outdoor that we would keep in at night due to a (justified) fear of larger predators. He lived a very long and healthy life and I definitely attribute that to him spending many of his waking hours outside engaged in hunting and patrolling behavior. I'm not sure that a leeshed walk would be a good substitute though, since a patrolling cat wants to be able to start hunting a rodent or fleeing danger at a moment's notice, and I suspect that some of the exercise is in sprinting, running up trees, and pouncing on prey. In my cat's later years he lost the boldness to stalk our entire yard by himself, but would enjoy it if we walked out there with him so he could smell everything without fear. The benefit of the walk is probably keeping the cat mentally active rather than physically.
- e40 8y ago
  I came home from a trip one day and there was a beautiful cat sitting in my driveway. He was super friendly and chatty. It was getting cold, so we let him sleep just inside the front door on a towel. In the morning he would wait to be let out. Before he arrived we had a problem with mice and rats. He immediately went to work cleaning up the area, and leaving us tributes on the front porch. When we didn't take them, he would finish them off. He only came in at night, and loved being outside. He did get into it with a raccoon (we assume). He had a tooth imbedded near his tail. Had to have minor surgery and wear a cone and stay inside for 3 weeks. I caught this while he was using the litter in front of the house: https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png I agree with others that outdoor cats can live a shortened life. He was with us for 6 years and was probably a few years old when he arrived. If your cat likes the leash and walking, it will be a treat. I think lots of cats might not like it.
williamstein 8y ago
I've been walking my dog in very busy parts of Seattle for hours almost every day for the last 7 months, and have encountered hundreds of other dogs... and exactly ONE cat the whole time. It was a beautiful bengal cat on a leash. In any case, around here, people very rarely walk their cats. I always wondered why.
ianai 8y ago
I had the good fortune to live with the same cat from when I was 11-30. He was an indoor cat for the first large chunk of his life. In his waning years we escorted him into the back yard for short visits. He loved it, but at the slightest sign of “bigger creatures” or anything spooky to him he’d book it indoors.
beezle 8y ago
Adding to the many anecdotes here.. I had an orange tabby growing up in a quiet suburban neighborhood. Our property abutted a golf course. The cat was mostly an outdoor cat, coming and going as weather and food swayed it. Quite the hunter of snakes/squirrel/rabbit and birds, she was regularly dive bombed by blue jays when crossing the golf course. We were also a dog family and the cat followed on our walks, golf course during the day and around the block at night. Quite a few times she 'protected' the dog from other cats on the nightly walk. I always found it a bit strange that she did this but I guess it is not all that uncommon to follow the family.
cozuya 8y ago
Hey a relative article. The wife and I have been walking both of our cats on leashes daily for 10 years. They love it, and importantly, it fulfills them - they sleep better, they are happier, they have less anxiety. Warning though: once you start, every day they will be demanding it.
jgh 8y ago
my cat likes to pretend like he enjoys going outside, then when he gets outside he flops around for about 10 minutes and then goes back inside.
bredren 8y ago
I've been walking my 1.5 y/o cat on a leash since he was about six months old. I walk him just about every morning. I can't sit down to program until he's had his time outside, or he'll meow incessantly for it. Walking a cat is much like she describes. They don't walk at all like dogs, but rather sort of zig zagging at what is interesting at that moment. There are certain leashes that work better than others. I see in this thread a lot of people that "tried it" and the cat didn't like it. There is a lot of build up to walking a cat outside, that starts with just having the harness around. There are guides on how to do it, but you don't just throw a leash on the cat and see how it goes, then give up. I posted some photos [1] of my cat on his walks, including one showing him climbing a tree while on his leash. It shows a bit how much fun they can have outside. [1] https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52 https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52
- lurkaround 8y ago
  Your cat should totally take up modeling.
exabrial 8y ago
I put a harness on my rescue every day before feeding him for the first few months so he's totally fine with it as an adult. The problem when going outdoors is he just squats in the grass and meows; very happy to go back inside.
- mathewsanders 8y ago
  I adopted a one year old stray cat and after a few indoor attempts he seeemed to be okay wearing a harness but trying to get him to go outside was impossible. He REALLY prefers to be inside. I do have a small 15x15ft balcony with some plants and overlooks some trees. When it’s warm I keep a window open for him to go out and he definitely likes watching the birds and the bees that come by, but apart from that he seems to prefer being inside.
- timbit42 8y ago
  "Rescue"? It's a cat. Don't bother pointing out how great a person you are because you rescued a cat. Bragging about it makes you look insecure.
  - dang 8y ago
    Please don't turn strange noun choices into personal attacks. That breaks several of the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
AlexCoventry 8y ago
First the goat link, now this. Is HN shifting away from its technology focus? CRISPR is great, but I don't think we're ready to talk about reimplementing lisp on top of a mammalian genome. :)
- exodust 8y ago
  I'm still waiting for GPS trackers to get small enough for cats to wear comfortably on their collars. It would be fun making an app that did interesting things with that data. I'd be more curious to look at my cat's "fitbit" data than my own. A lot of cat owners would love to check on their cat's roaming data. There, a little tech for you without straying too far from cats, pardon pun.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZ3pzYffzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZ3pzYffzc
  - simplyaccont 8y ago
    https://www.whistle.com/ https://www.whistle.com/
    - exodust 8y ago
      Only one cat image on that page and he doesn't look pleased about his collar to be honest. Cats need their agility unobstructed by an anchor around their neck. I'm still waiting for smaller tags. https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomselleck.png https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomsell...
      - simplyaccont 8y ago
        Cats in general do not look pleased most of the time. I have this tracker on my cat and two dogs. After a couple of days cat got used to collar, as he never had one before. Tag itself doesn't seem to disturb him, unlike, for example absence of 24/7 food supply and presence dogs that want to play with him.
11235813213455 8y ago
Or better, not have any pet at all. Save the planet
whiddershins 8y ago
A lot of people here are talking about how cats that go outside don’t live as long. That may be true for the median but growing up my grandmother had a cat on her farm that went outside whenever it pleased. It lived to be 21 years old. It used to be normal to let both cats and dogs run free around the neighborhood. I understand why people don’t want to do that anymore, but it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tejohnso 8y ago
  Used to be normal to let children explore and play freely around the neighbourhood as well. The good'ol days, I guess.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    a significant fraction of children don't end up under car tires because its possible to verbally communicate the danger.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  > it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal. It also used to be completely normal to destroy aggressive dogs, especially ones with a history of biting people. Now we "rescue" and "rehabilitate" those dogs. In light of that, it's good that we've forgotten how to let dogs roam the neighborhood unleashed.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  Anecdotes aren't as useful as data for making real decisions. Average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15 years average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 5. This is like you dying in your 20s.
  - codedokode 8y ago
jerrysievert 8y ago
I’ve enjoyed the company of cats most of my life, and have had a few that really enjoyed being outside with me: One loved to perch on my shoulder and go everywhere with me. Another (not strictly mine, he came with a long-term relationship) would bring his harness to me for walks. My current loves to look out the windows, but will not go outside on her own. Instead, she has a backpack that she loves to travel in, and is extremely happy to go for “walks”. She’s been the delight of the local pub, and gets jealous if I leave without her. I am still wary to leave cats on their own outside, mostly due to health of them and the local wildlife population, but am happy to facilitate outside interaction.
Noctem 8y ago
I often go on walks with my cat without a leash up the mountain that I live at the base of. She just follows me; occasionally she'll lag behind if something interests her, but she catches up eventually if I just keep walking.
Markoff 8y ago
my grandma had cats, who wandered anywhere in village but i guess that's normal in village if you have your own house, but my neighbor nearby has cat which they let wander outside here in the 1.5M city, i am a bit surprised they are not afraid of some teenagers killing their cat, biggest issue AFAIK was that many people didn't like the cat walking around sandpits with toddlers/infants paint littering there, though i have never seen it and just let my child touch the nice cat so sorry for not finding article revolutionary in any way, you might as well let them roam free which is much more natural than cat on leash, personally if i would be cat owner i would use GPS tracker to know cat's whereabouts
dublin 8y ago
Let me know how that works out for you...
dublin 8y ago
Let me know how that works out for you... Cats do a fair amount of environmental damage to birds and the like, but they also contribute to the natural order as food - my neighbor takes in strays, but never has many cats, as the (too few) remaining coyotes in the canyons here in Austin yomp a couple of them every year.
zygotic12 8y ago
I've got three cats, one little girl with a violent past, I was sure several times that she would kill herself in various ways (including having 7 Kittens at 5 months old). 18 years later her every single day has been complete indulgence and she expects it! She changed from being an indoor cat 2 years ago into 'bush girl' and she's never looked better. The point being, as long as your cat is super happy. Enough.

115 points by veganjay 8y ago

Umm no, a thousand times no, first off my cat walks himself, he is free to come and go as he pleases. second and most importantly if you value your flesh actually being attached to your skeleton youd be wise to not attempt to put a lead on my cat, he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness

mabbo 8y ago
> he is free to come and go as he pleases The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds. A lot of them. Some species may be risking extinction. Plus, if you live in a condo 13 stories up, that's not possible. > he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness Takes time and effort, but cats are trainable. I grew up with a murder-mitted beast who didn't put up with anything. My cats now, I take the time to train them rather than let them be violent.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds. How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats? Are you worried about the cat's immortal soul? Or is it more that you just think cats are a problem in general, but you'd prefer to make the claim more specific than that here?
  - hueving 8y ago
    >How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats? It's answered in the same post you just quoted. They hunt so many birds they are destructive to the environment and are driving some to extinction.
    - triplesec 8y ago
      Do you have a source to back up that claim? Australia has specific problems with cats, but apart from that, without evidence to the contrary, i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife. There are more pressing issues to do with birds, mostly involving loss of hedgerows and tree habitats from 'development', and climate change.
      - hueving 8y ago
        >i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife The massive numbers of them are the problem. The only other pet as common is a dog and they don't hunt birds just for the sake of hunting like many cats do.
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      That sounds like a problem with outdoor cats. Why call out indoor/outdoor cats? The only part of the complaint specific to indoor/outdoor cats is that they hunt even though a human will feed them. That's a complaint about the cats' morality, not a complaint about their effects. It also assumes without justification that humans don't feed their outdoor cats.
      - hueving 8y ago
        Cats hunting is a problem regardless of whether or not there are fed. It has zero to do with their 'morality'. The problem is any cats that wander around killing multiple birds. So many people have cats that even a small percentage of them doing this is super destructive to the local birds.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Those species wouldn't be facing extinction if humans didn't destroy 90% of the habitat before letting the cats out. But sure, blame the cats.
  - anoncake 8y ago
    We're in no position to accuse cats of being an invasive species.
- tdb7893 8y ago
  How many birds do they actually eat? The study I've seen has been mostly speculation as it's an incredibly hard thing to measure generally.
  - rhexs 8y ago
    Feel free to explore the sources here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife "Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. Scientifically sound conservation and policy intervention is needed to reduce this impact."
matthewowen 8y ago
You didn't read the article.
- porphyrogene 8y ago
  You didn't read the Hacker News comment guidelines.

krackers 8y ago

I used to see my neighbor walking his cat on a leash every morning. It was always an amusing sight to behold, but the cat seemed alright with it. I think the practicality of it varies from individual cat to cat though.

eigenstuff 8y ago

My cat is indoors only and made a couple escape attempts that were a little traumatizing for me (helicopter cat mom here), so while I considered getting him a leash once, I ultimately decided against it because I was afraid it'd make him a little more comfortable with the outside world and might emboldened him to make more escape attempts in the future. Not happening in a rural place where there's coyotes, oh hell no. So instead of walks, we play catch. I wad up paper scraps and throw them and he'll leap into the air to catch them with his paws or swat them away. His ability to catch is honestly amazing to me, he gets it the vast majority of the time, and sometimes he'll leap a good 3 feet in the air, it's super impressive. It's also extremely entertaining! I have a lot of fun with "cat baseball practice", and I think the reason he's so responsive to paper wads is because those were the only cat toys I had for him as a kitten, so every time he hears the sound of paper crumpling he perks up and comes running. He also loves diving into 12 pack cardboard boxes with the ends ripped off to make them into a tube. My living room floor is constantly covered in trash cat toys but I love it.

mmagin 8y ago
I also recommend cable ties (the long ones that won't be accidentally swallowed).
Regardsyjc 8y ago
My mom taught her cat to fetch with thin plastic rings the size of bracelets. She'd sort of chuck them like a mini Frisbee and her cat would swipe them out of the air like a pro athlete. She used to get her cat toys but they had a tendency of mysteriously disappearing forever.
- krallja 8y ago
  They are all under the refrigerator. Guaranteed to find them, along with milk jug rings, hair ties, and other circles.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
Your cat wants to go outside but you intentionally lock it in? That's abuse, even beyond the abuse that helicopter parenting entails.

dannykwells 8y ago

Took my cat for a walk once. Traumatized him so much he now just sits in the corner and talks to himself and chain smokes. Poor guy is still suffering flash backs of his time on the outside. Who can blame him?

pweissbrod 8y ago
Thats not healthy. I've convinced my cat to switch to vaping. Now, he only smokes when he drinks. But I'm a realist about this sort of thing.

reaperducer 8y ago

I had a cat who would walk on a leash. I had another one that liked going for "walks" where he would perch on my shoulder while I walked, like a pirate's parrot. My current cats aren't walkers. One hates the leash, and the other hates the mere idea of "outside."

marssaxman 8y ago

I tried this with my first ex-wife's cat, sixteen years ago. It didn't work out very well.

08-15 8y ago

> cats are a blight on ecosystems, killing countless [...] small mammals They do. Cats kill mice. And while domestic cats may have some difficulty killing rats, they definitely make life uncomfortable for rats. That's why the Egyptians decided 6000 years ago that cats are sacred. Killing "small animals" such as mice and rats is a good thing. Ever heard about the Black Death? It was spread by rats (their fleas, to be precise). Yes, if we somehow managed to drive mice and rats to extinction, that would "reduce biodiversity", but it would be a good thing.

willnewman 8y ago
It's likely they're referring to the effect outdoor cats have on bird populations. They're credited with the the extinction of 63 species: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/
- wishinghand 8y ago
  And lizards.
- Izkata 8y ago
  "mammals", though?
- triplesec 8y ago
  These data only refer to island ecosystems like Australia. And this is all nonnative species, not just cats. This is entirely irrelevant to the issue of urban and suburban cats in the United States.
- XorNot 8y ago
  The problem is this doesn't delineate very well between the feral and urban populations. While feral cats are enormously destructive to some ecosystems, and irresponsible pet ownership is obviously going to contribute to the feral cat population, it's far less clear that urban domestic cat populations contribute to ecosystem damage in any serious fashion - because far more damage was done when we went and paved over hundreds of sq miles of that ecosystem to build a city there.

Waterluvian 8y ago

I think one of the easier ways to do right by your cats is to always have two or more. When we got Gentle Ben, Max Power suddenly reverse-aged by like five years.

davidgould 8y ago
This. A lot of the reason people think cats are aloof or un-social is because they have only known solitary cats, who like people in solitary situations, are likely to be depressed and have other issues. I've had a number of cats over the years, but the best experience for me and for the cats has been with pairs from the same litter or who grow up together. It makes a huge difference when they have company.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Some cats do better with a companion, some are much happier when they are “only cats”. You have to know your cat well enough to know which is right for them.
  - amelius 8y ago
    Yes probably, but I wonder if that depends on the specific companion.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    how do you figure this out if your cat has never met another cat since being a kitten at the shelter? I've considered having him meet a friend's cat, but I would imagine it takes a few weeks to really judge whether they're happier together.
    - davidgould 8y ago
      It depends, but if your cat is young and the cat you introduce is a kitten, and your cat is demanding a lot of play time from you, chances are a second cat will work. If your cat is old and cranky, not so much. It will definitely take a couple weeks of contact for them to work it out. Even if they don't get along particularly well, it still might be a net win.

notatcomputer68 8y ago

Grew up with an outdoor cat in a suburb with backyard. Would let her in when she wanted and out when she wanted. She would occasionally follow us on a walk without any invitation or leash. We were a little surprised "Do cats do that?" I think first time we tried to shoo her back but then we realized it was fine and just let her come with us. Worst that happened was one time a dog scared her up into a tree but she came down eventually. A neighboring family were not so lucky. Theirs kept getting run over by cars (Not because of walks just because of being outside).

porphyrogene 8y ago

If you have to trap an animal inside of your home at all times because if it had the chance it would run away forever and you would never see it again, what is the best word to describe relationship? I don't think "pet" is the right word. Having an animal like a cat live its life mostly indoors is contradictory to its nature and will likely have negative effects on its health. If you want to own an indoor cat that's fine but one should not be deluded into thinking that the animal's best interest is in living inside with occasional outdoor excursions on a tether.

doughj3 8y ago
> ... will likely have negative effects on its health Indoor cats have lifespans multiple times that of outdoor cats, so I think the alternative has negative effects on health, too.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  Outdoor cats do okay, the ones I grew up with lived to be 16 and 21. It depends on where you live, what predators they might have to face.
  - adetrest 8y ago
    Anecdote, data, all that.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    that's great, but on average outdoor cats really do live much shorter lives. [0] [0] https://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indoor-cat-or-an-outdoor-cat https://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indo...
  - y4mi 8y ago
    My family had several cats over the time I grew up. All could go outside whenever they wanted. The oldest got to 8 yrs. Most died of organ failures, one from a genetic illness and another one never came back. The Organ failures were probably from rat poison... So, the outside killed them

henripro 8y ago

Tried this once with my old childhood cat. She hated it, and would wiggle out of the collar. What she would do is follow us around on walks in our suburban neighborhood leash free. She would usually stay a house or two behind us and run from hedge to hedge. We were worried that she would follow me all the way to school, when I started walking there, but we tested this, and she would refuse to cross a big street on the way.

Gys 8y ago

A problem with cats is their natural reaction to a leash: they start moving backwards, where dogs move forwards. It always fascinated me how different cats and dogs are, in many ways.

tmikaeld 8y ago

We tried this with a cat we had several years back. He had been an indoors cat his whole life. After a few very successful outdoor walks, he would sit at the door screaming until we let him out again and he didn't stop at night either... It became so bad that we had to place him at a new home at a farm where he can be outside as much as he wants. It's a better life for him for sure, even if we do miss him a lot it would be selfish to rob him of that desire for the outdoors.

astral303 8y ago
I’m so sorry for you and so happy for your cat! Good on you
- tmikaeld 8y ago
  Thanks, I'm alright. I'm just happy that he's happy! :-)
r-s 8y ago
My father also sent my cat to a farm when I was young!
- tmikaeld 8y ago
  That must have been hard to explain, but i bet the cat got it better - probably catching farm-mice ;-)

tscherno 8y ago

Our cat used to follow us without harness 2km in to the woods and back, but only in the night. :)

EamonnMR 8y ago
That sounds like fun for you and the cat. They love running around at night. Flashlights or night vision goggles?

alchemism 8y ago

I live in a urban area with a freight train line running along the back of the house, apart from any roadways or people. Trains run a few times a day, and are slow and massive. I take my three cats for an unleashed walk along the tracks a short way. They instinctively form a hunting party around me as we walk; they treat me like the platoon commander or some such. One is the scout, the senior maintains discipline, etc. At the first sign of a distant train, they inform me, and we go back to the yard and watch the train pass. They must consider them some kind of mighty, blind worms. It is not quite the same as a leash-walk through the forest, but I feel very lucky to have a little pocket for the cats to reveal their outdoor personalities in this way.

ianai 8y ago
That is one awesome thing to do with cats. Do you let them outside without you?
- alchemism 8y ago
  Two of the cats are interested in exploring the back on their own, one will only step outside if I go. After escorting them for awhile when training them, I generally let them go. I think the randomness of the long trains deters them from going far, or even to the other side, and they understand that the yard square is “home base.” There is no chance anything larger than a fox from appearing this deep in the city, and there is enough foliage to escape a stray dog if it came along. So the train is the only threatening thing, which they are (appropriately) in awe of when it passes.
elorant 8y ago
Dude you need to capture this whole scene on a camera and upload it on YouTube. Sounds so exciting and entertaining to watch.
- losteric 8y ago
  Seconding this request; the idea of domesticated cats behaving like this is kinda mind blowing, I've never seen that kind of ordered social behavior.

EamonnMR 8y ago

Our cat was indoor/outdoor that we would keep in at night due to a (justified) fear of larger predators. He lived a very long and healthy life and I definitely attribute that to him spending many of his waking hours outside engaged in hunting and patrolling behavior. I'm not sure that a leeshed walk would be a good substitute though, since a patrolling cat wants to be able to start hunting a rodent or fleeing danger at a moment's notice, and I suspect that some of the exercise is in sprinting, running up trees, and pouncing on prey. In my cat's later years he lost the boldness to stalk our entire yard by himself, but would enjoy it if we walked out there with him so he could smell everything without fear. The benefit of the walk is probably keeping the cat mentally active rather than physically.

e40 8y ago
I came home from a trip one day and there was a beautiful cat sitting in my driveway. He was super friendly and chatty. It was getting cold, so we let him sleep just inside the front door on a towel. In the morning he would wait to be let out. Before he arrived we had a problem with mice and rats. He immediately went to work cleaning up the area, and leaving us tributes on the front porch. When we didn't take them, he would finish them off. He only came in at night, and loved being outside. He did get into it with a raccoon (we assume). He had a tooth imbedded near his tail. Had to have minor surgery and wear a cone and stay inside for 3 weeks. I caught this while he was using the litter in front of the house: https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png I agree with others that outdoor cats can live a shortened life. He was with us for 6 years and was probably a few years old when he arrived. If your cat likes the leash and walking, it will be a treat. I think lots of cats might not like it.

williamstein 8y ago

I've been walking my dog in very busy parts of Seattle for hours almost every day for the last 7 months, and have encountered hundreds of other dogs... and exactly ONE cat the whole time. It was a beautiful bengal cat on a leash. In any case, around here, people very rarely walk their cats. I always wondered why.

ianai 8y ago

I had the good fortune to live with the same cat from when I was 11-30. He was an indoor cat for the first large chunk of his life. In his waning years we escorted him into the back yard for short visits. He loved it, but at the slightest sign of “bigger creatures” or anything spooky to him he’d book it indoors.

beezle 8y ago

Adding to the many anecdotes here.. I had an orange tabby growing up in a quiet suburban neighborhood. Our property abutted a golf course. The cat was mostly an outdoor cat, coming and going as weather and food swayed it. Quite the hunter of snakes/squirrel/rabbit and birds, she was regularly dive bombed by blue jays when crossing the golf course. We were also a dog family and the cat followed on our walks, golf course during the day and around the block at night. Quite a few times she 'protected' the dog from other cats on the nightly walk. I always found it a bit strange that she did this but I guess it is not all that uncommon to follow the family.

cozuya 8y ago

Hey a relative article. The wife and I have been walking both of our cats on leashes daily for 10 years. They love it, and importantly, it fulfills them - they sleep better, they are happier, they have less anxiety. Warning though: once you start, every day they will be demanding it.

jgh 8y ago

my cat likes to pretend like he enjoys going outside, then when he gets outside he flops around for about 10 minutes and then goes back inside.

bredren 8y ago

I've been walking my 1.5 y/o cat on a leash since he was about six months old. I walk him just about every morning. I can't sit down to program until he's had his time outside, or he'll meow incessantly for it. Walking a cat is much like she describes. They don't walk at all like dogs, but rather sort of zig zagging at what is interesting at that moment. There are certain leashes that work better than others. I see in this thread a lot of people that "tried it" and the cat didn't like it. There is a lot of build up to walking a cat outside, that starts with just having the harness around. There are guides on how to do it, but you don't just throw a leash on the cat and see how it goes, then give up. I posted some photos [1] of my cat on his walks, including one showing him climbing a tree while on his leash. It shows a bit how much fun they can have outside. [1] https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52 https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52

lurkaround 8y ago
Your cat should totally take up modeling.

exabrial 8y ago

I put a harness on my rescue every day before feeding him for the first few months so he's totally fine with it as an adult. The problem when going outdoors is he just squats in the grass and meows; very happy to go back inside.

mathewsanders 8y ago
I adopted a one year old stray cat and after a few indoor attempts he seeemed to be okay wearing a harness but trying to get him to go outside was impossible. He REALLY prefers to be inside. I do have a small 15x15ft balcony with some plants and overlooks some trees. When it’s warm I keep a window open for him to go out and he definitely likes watching the birds and the bees that come by, but apart from that he seems to prefer being inside.
timbit42 8y ago
"Rescue"? It's a cat. Don't bother pointing out how great a person you are because you rescued a cat. Bragging about it makes you look insecure.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't turn strange noun choices into personal attacks. That breaks several of the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

AlexCoventry 8y ago

First the goat link, now this. Is HN shifting away from its technology focus? CRISPR is great, but I don't think we're ready to talk about reimplementing lisp on top of a mammalian genome. :)

exodust 8y ago
I'm still waiting for GPS trackers to get small enough for cats to wear comfortably on their collars. It would be fun making an app that did interesting things with that data. I'd be more curious to look at my cat's "fitbit" data than my own. A lot of cat owners would love to check on their cat's roaming data. There, a little tech for you without straying too far from cats, pardon pun.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZ3pzYffzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZ3pzYffzc
- simplyaccont 8y ago
  https://www.whistle.com/ https://www.whistle.com/
  - exodust 8y ago
    Only one cat image on that page and he doesn't look pleased about his collar to be honest. Cats need their agility unobstructed by an anchor around their neck. I'm still waiting for smaller tags. https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomselleck.png https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomsell...
    - simplyaccont 8y ago
      Cats in general do not look pleased most of the time. I have this tracker on my cat and two dogs. After a couple of days cat got used to collar, as he never had one before. Tag itself doesn't seem to disturb him, unlike, for example absence of 24/7 food supply and presence dogs that want to play with him.

11235813213455 8y ago

Or better, not have any pet at all. Save the planet

whiddershins 8y ago

A lot of people here are talking about how cats that go outside don’t live as long. That may be true for the median but growing up my grandmother had a cat on her farm that went outside whenever it pleased. It lived to be 21 years old. It used to be normal to let both cats and dogs run free around the neighborhood. I understand why people don’t want to do that anymore, but it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tejohnso 8y ago
Used to be normal to let children explore and play freely around the neighbourhood as well. The good'ol days, I guess.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  a significant fraction of children don't end up under car tires because its possible to verbally communicate the danger.
brandonmenc 8y ago
> it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal. It also used to be completely normal to destroy aggressive dogs, especially ones with a history of biting people. Now we "rescue" and "rehabilitate" those dogs. In light of that, it's good that we've forgotten how to let dogs roam the neighborhood unleashed.
michaelmrose 8y ago
Anecdotes aren't as useful as data for making real decisions. Average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15 years average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 5. This is like you dying in your 20s.
- codedokode 8y ago

jerrysievert 8y ago

I’ve enjoyed the company of cats most of my life, and have had a few that really enjoyed being outside with me: One loved to perch on my shoulder and go everywhere with me. Another (not strictly mine, he came with a long-term relationship) would bring his harness to me for walks. My current loves to look out the windows, but will not go outside on her own. Instead, she has a backpack that she loves to travel in, and is extremely happy to go for “walks”. She’s been the delight of the local pub, and gets jealous if I leave without her. I am still wary to leave cats on their own outside, mostly due to health of them and the local wildlife population, but am happy to facilitate outside interaction.

Noctem 8y ago

I often go on walks with my cat without a leash up the mountain that I live at the base of. She just follows me; occasionally she'll lag behind if something interests her, but she catches up eventually if I just keep walking.

Markoff 8y ago

my grandma had cats, who wandered anywhere in village but i guess that's normal in village if you have your own house, but my neighbor nearby has cat which they let wander outside here in the 1.5M city, i am a bit surprised they are not afraid of some teenagers killing their cat, biggest issue AFAIK was that many people didn't like the cat walking around sandpits with toddlers/infants paint littering there, though i have never seen it and just let my child touch the nice cat so sorry for not finding article revolutionary in any way, you might as well let them roam free which is much more natural than cat on leash, personally if i would be cat owner i would use GPS tracker to know cat's whereabouts

dublin 8y ago

Let me know how that works out for you...

dublin 8y ago

Let me know how that works out for you... Cats do a fair amount of environmental damage to birds and the like, but they also contribute to the natural order as food - my neighbor takes in strays, but never has many cats, as the (too few) remaining coyotes in the canyons here in Austin yomp a couple of them every year.

zygotic12 8y ago

I've got three cats, one little girl with a violent past, I was sure several times that she would kill herself in various ways (including having 7 Kittens at 5 months old). 18 years later her every single day has been complete indulgence and she expects it! She changed from being an indoor cat 2 years ago into 'bush girl' and she's never looked better. The point being, as long as your cat is super happy. Enough.