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I think a lot of people over-estimate the resilience of the human emotional state, especially their own. Time and time again we see regular functioning adults g

I think a lot of people over-estimate the resilience of the human emotional state, especially their own. Time and time again we see regular functioning adults get sucked into objectively insane or self-harmful communities, be it the above phenomenon or 4chan crap like QAnon.

noobermin 8y ago
How many people follow QAnon or 4chan nonsense? You're over weighting a sheer minority of people who probably have other issues in their lives as for why they chase down conspiracy rabbit holes.
- stareatgoats 8y ago
  Came to say I agree with village-idiot, many if not everyone overestimate their emotional resilience and those that become victims usually become so inadvertently and don't realize the ramifications until it's either too late or a real steep climb to get back up. QAnon might not be the most common rabbit hole, but it was in all fairness just an example. The most common example is probably drugs and alcohol.
- groby_b 8y ago
  Alas, they don't have "other issues" - because recommendation algorithms drive people down the conspiracy rabbit holes. Conspiracy, fear, hate - they all drive engagement better than anything else. And since we all optimize for engagement, guess where things are heading. And no matter how resilient you are, there's some really dark shit out there. Ready to tear down even rather healthy people.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    optimize for engagement This to me seems like it's the key to all of this, or at least a portion of it that really shouldn't be ignored. As I shared, if my ex had other ongoing issues under the surface, they were never presented and she did a great job keeping the visible symptoms from manifesting for the better part of three years. Maybe she didn't realize they were there herself, hard to blame anyone for that. It doesn't seem that remarkable, contentious or incendiary of an idea to wonder if following these blogs and communities infiltrated and started poking at something that was already there, driving a curiosity to dig further, effectively picking at a scab....so to speak. And when the platform responds to your interactions, likes, reshares, searches by pushing more of that in your face, it doesn't seem any more remarkable that someone could find themselves facing mental anguish or other personal/emotional problems that wouldn't have ever otherwise seen the light of day.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      Optimization for engagement is actually quite scary to me: because the effects upon the user (beyond engagement) are literally meaningless. If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice.
      - dvtrn 8y ago
        If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice. While the platform, many more times than not profits from that engagement? I completely agree.
- rjplatte 8y ago
  I do. It's entertaining, especially since there's been some Qanon posts which seem almost plausible, and the rest of the time it's some guy with a neckbeard trying to get likes.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  It’s not like 4chan is the first cult to start up and rope in otherwise functioning adults.
  - sleepybrett 8y ago
    there are functioning adults that frequent 4chan. I think not.
    - scythe 8y ago
      There's a lot more to 4chan than /b/ (and the associated /pol/, /r9k/, /s4s/ crap). I haven't used /b/ in years (it stopped being funny around 100M get) but I still use some of the special-interest boards.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      First, my point is not specific to any one crazy movement or community. QAnon is the most recent one, but anyone historically aware can point to a variety of similar examples. Second, if you think QAnon is relegated to only those who visit 4chan, I have very bad news for you.
- cm2012 8y ago
  QAnon stuff gets millions of shares on Facebook every week. It's nuts and not a tiny slice of people. Ballpark 20% of republican voters at the very least believe in this stuff.
  - ryanmarsh 8y ago
    At least 20%. I’m right wing. Lemme tell yah.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      I mean this question without any malice or partisanship, because I’m genuinely curious. What’s it feel like to watch those in your political in group seemingly lose their minds? Has it affected your opinions or relationships with fellow conservatives?
      - ryanmarsh 8y ago
        No, if anything it's brought us together. What's been hard is losing leftie friends for no reason. I don't talk about politics, but if they find out I went to a Trump rally (instagram pics) suddenly we can't be friends. It's weird. I lived in San Francisco 20 years ago and had rabidly leftie friends whom I very much enjoyed sparring with over drinks, however something has changed and we can't even make small talk anymore. Bizarre.
        village-idiot 8y ago
        The sign of our polarized times.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Enough to win an election.
Aeolun 8y ago
I have my own share of mental issues, but I just have a hard time seeing how I could ever get involved in one of these groups, much less believe the bullshit they are spouting. What is the situation that makes these seem like a solid choice?
- specialist 8y ago
  I'm more interested in how I (apparently) avoided it all. Methinks it's because I got it out of the way early on. I definitely have had my own phases for occult, religion, conspiracies, MLM, alcohol, outrage addiction, counter cultural impulses, protests, etc. Further, I once thought I'd get into journalism, did student radio & TV, wrote for a bit. I think seeing how the sausage is made, learning the craft, helps one develop an immunity. Having a contrarian reading list probably helped. For example, Robert Anton Wilson and stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
  - shaki-dora 8y ago
    Equating journalism with QAnon and recommending “contrarian reading” seems strange advise for avoiding conspiracy theories.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Early is the keyword. I got through a lot of conspiracy / UFO stuff as a kid, the way others go through paranormal phases. I outgrew it, just as I outgrew Santa. Robert Anton Wilson is also good, because he presents all this stuff clearly marked as fiction.
    - specialist 8y ago
      What? My advice is to study the techniques, to better guard against them. This much is obvious, no? Though illustrative, I acknowledge The Illuminati and the Subgenius stuff are not very accessible. Thank You for Smoking https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 and Network https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 are probably more your speed.
joe_the_user 8y ago
I would put it as "people misunderstand the source of their emotional resilience". A lot of people think that having "strong will" or "strong values" is what will prevent them from picking up extreme, obsessive or hateful ideas. Instead, anything like resilience is a process. Your friends and your community is part of it. Everyone is suggestible, everyone takes beliefs from associates as well as from experience. Conspiratorial and prejudiced ideas are seductive specifically because of how uncertain the world is. One has to reject such ideas in a way that avoids considering them in terms of "either this is true or this is false" since so many questions well beyond proof either way.

noobermin 8y ago

How many people follow QAnon or 4chan nonsense? You're over weighting a sheer minority of people who probably have other issues in their lives as for why they chase down conspiracy rabbit holes.

stareatgoats 8y ago
Came to say I agree with village-idiot, many if not everyone overestimate their emotional resilience and those that become victims usually become so inadvertently and don't realize the ramifications until it's either too late or a real steep climb to get back up. QAnon might not be the most common rabbit hole, but it was in all fairness just an example. The most common example is probably drugs and alcohol.
groby_b 8y ago
Alas, they don't have "other issues" - because recommendation algorithms drive people down the conspiracy rabbit holes. Conspiracy, fear, hate - they all drive engagement better than anything else. And since we all optimize for engagement, guess where things are heading. And no matter how resilient you are, there's some really dark shit out there. Ready to tear down even rather healthy people.
- dvtrn 8y ago
  optimize for engagement This to me seems like it's the key to all of this, or at least a portion of it that really shouldn't be ignored. As I shared, if my ex had other ongoing issues under the surface, they were never presented and she did a great job keeping the visible symptoms from manifesting for the better part of three years. Maybe she didn't realize they were there herself, hard to blame anyone for that. It doesn't seem that remarkable, contentious or incendiary of an idea to wonder if following these blogs and communities infiltrated and started poking at something that was already there, driving a curiosity to dig further, effectively picking at a scab....so to speak. And when the platform responds to your interactions, likes, reshares, searches by pushing more of that in your face, it doesn't seem any more remarkable that someone could find themselves facing mental anguish or other personal/emotional problems that wouldn't have ever otherwise seen the light of day.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Optimization for engagement is actually quite scary to me: because the effects upon the user (beyond engagement) are literally meaningless. If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice. While the platform, many more times than not profits from that engagement? I completely agree.
rjplatte 8y ago
I do. It's entertaining, especially since there's been some Qanon posts which seem almost plausible, and the rest of the time it's some guy with a neckbeard trying to get likes.
village-idiot 8y ago
It’s not like 4chan is the first cult to start up and rope in otherwise functioning adults.
- sleepybrett 8y ago
  there are functioning adults that frequent 4chan. I think not.
  - scythe 8y ago
    There's a lot more to 4chan than /b/ (and the associated /pol/, /r9k/, /s4s/ crap). I haven't used /b/ in years (it stopped being funny around 100M get) but I still use some of the special-interest boards.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    First, my point is not specific to any one crazy movement or community. QAnon is the most recent one, but anyone historically aware can point to a variety of similar examples. Second, if you think QAnon is relegated to only those who visit 4chan, I have very bad news for you.
cm2012 8y ago
QAnon stuff gets millions of shares on Facebook every week. It's nuts and not a tiny slice of people. Ballpark 20% of republican voters at the very least believe in this stuff.
- ryanmarsh 8y ago
  At least 20%. I’m right wing. Lemme tell yah.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    I mean this question without any malice or partisanship, because I’m genuinely curious. What’s it feel like to watch those in your political in group seemingly lose their minds? Has it affected your opinions or relationships with fellow conservatives?
    - ryanmarsh 8y ago
      No, if anything it's brought us together. What's been hard is losing leftie friends for no reason. I don't talk about politics, but if they find out I went to a Trump rally (instagram pics) suddenly we can't be friends. It's weird. I lived in San Francisco 20 years ago and had rabidly leftie friends whom I very much enjoyed sparring with over drinks, however something has changed and we can't even make small talk anymore. Bizarre.
      - village-idiot 8y ago
        The sign of our polarized times.
pjc50 8y ago
Enough to win an election.

Aeolun 8y ago

I have my own share of mental issues, but I just have a hard time seeing how I could ever get involved in one of these groups, much less believe the bullshit they are spouting. What is the situation that makes these seem like a solid choice?

specialist 8y ago
I'm more interested in how I (apparently) avoided it all. Methinks it's because I got it out of the way early on. I definitely have had my own phases for occult, religion, conspiracies, MLM, alcohol, outrage addiction, counter cultural impulses, protests, etc. Further, I once thought I'd get into journalism, did student radio & TV, wrote for a bit. I think seeing how the sausage is made, learning the craft, helps one develop an immunity. Having a contrarian reading list probably helped. For example, Robert Anton Wilson and stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  Equating journalism with QAnon and recommending “contrarian reading” seems strange advise for avoiding conspiracy theories.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Early is the keyword. I got through a lot of conspiracy / UFO stuff as a kid, the way others go through paranormal phases. I outgrew it, just as I outgrew Santa. Robert Anton Wilson is also good, because he presents all this stuff clearly marked as fiction.
  - specialist 8y ago
    What? My advice is to study the techniques, to better guard against them. This much is obvious, no? Though illustrative, I acknowledge The Illuminati and the Subgenius stuff are not very accessible. Thank You for Smoking https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 and Network https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 are probably more your speed.

joe_the_user 8y ago

I would put it as "people misunderstand the source of their emotional resilience". A lot of people think that having "strong will" or "strong values" is what will prevent them from picking up extreme, obsessive or hateful ideas. Instead, anything like resilience is a process. Your friends and your community is part of it. Everyone is suggestible, everyone takes beliefs from associates as well as from experience. Conspiratorial and prejudiced ideas are seductive specifically because of how uncertain the world is. One has to reject such ideas in a way that avoids considering them in terms of "either this is true or this is false" since so many questions well beyond proof either way.