7 ms·

My daughter at 12 got sucked into Tumblr and developed an eating disorder. I'm really sorry to hear this, having gone through a similar thing with a now ex-sig

by dvtrn 8y ago

My daughter at 12 got sucked into Tumblr and developed an eating disorder. I'm really sorry to hear this, having gone through a similar thing with a now ex-significant other. She too became very active in the segments of tumblr you identified and others (showed me many of them, some seemed like teenage angst in blog form, others were far more...worrisome), developed an eating disorder along with severe anxiety issues, and in my attempts to remain empathetic, supportive but cautionary about the affects those groups had had on her in the last two years of a five year relationship, she abruptly called it quits on our relationship and walked away. Citing the anxiety was too much for a relationship, to this day I can't help but look back and wonder if those groups were partly to blame given how recent her changes were leading up to us parting ways. This wasn't a 12 year old adolescent as it was in your case, she was-up to that point-a healthy, happy 34 year old woman with a great career in the corporate world. Our relationship was healthy, we had a track record of building each other up and improving as people together. If there was something going on under the surface for these groups to infiltrate and exacerbate to the point of us breaking up, she did an amazing job suppressing it. The decline however was swift, immediate and depressing. Each time I'd try to be involved and supportive to help her out, I always got rebuffed and turned away until, well like I said she decided to just walk away from our relationship. To say I'm still stunned would be an understatement. Good luck with your daughter, I hope what you and your family must be going through improves for the better

village-idiot 8y ago
I think a lot of people over-estimate the resilience of the human emotional state, especially their own. Time and time again we see regular functioning adults get sucked into objectively insane or self-harmful communities, be it the above phenomenon or 4chan crap like QAnon.
- noobermin 8y ago
  How many people follow QAnon or 4chan nonsense? You're over weighting a sheer minority of people who probably have other issues in their lives as for why they chase down conspiracy rabbit holes.
  - stareatgoats 8y ago
    Came to say I agree with village-idiot, many if not everyone overestimate their emotional resilience and those that become victims usually become so inadvertently and don't realize the ramifications until it's either too late or a real steep climb to get back up. QAnon might not be the most common rabbit hole, but it was in all fairness just an example. The most common example is probably drugs and alcohol.
  - groby_b 8y ago
    Alas, they don't have "other issues" - because recommendation algorithms drive people down the conspiracy rabbit holes. Conspiracy, fear, hate - they all drive engagement better than anything else. And since we all optimize for engagement, guess where things are heading. And no matter how resilient you are, there's some really dark shit out there. Ready to tear down even rather healthy people.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      optimize for engagement This to me seems like it's the key to all of this, or at least a portion of it that really shouldn't be ignored. As I shared, if my ex had other ongoing issues under the surface, they were never presented and she did a great job keeping the visible symptoms from manifesting for the better part of three years. Maybe she didn't realize they were there herself, hard to blame anyone for that. It doesn't seem that remarkable, contentious or incendiary of an idea to wonder if following these blogs and communities infiltrated and started poking at something that was already there, driving a curiosity to dig further, effectively picking at a scab....so to speak. And when the platform responds to your interactions, likes, reshares, searches by pushing more of that in your face, it doesn't seem any more remarkable that someone could find themselves facing mental anguish or other personal/emotional problems that wouldn't have ever otherwise seen the light of day.
      - village-idiot 8y ago
        Optimization for engagement is actually quite scary to me: because the effects upon the user (beyond engagement) are literally meaningless. If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I have my own share of mental issues, but I just have a hard time seeing how I could ever get involved in one of these groups, much less believe the bullshit they are spouting. What is the situation that makes these seem like a solid choice?
  - specialist 8y ago
    I'm more interested in how I (apparently) avoided it all. Methinks it's because I got it out of the way early on. I definitely have had my own phases for occult, religion, conspiracies, MLM, alcohol, outrage addiction, counter cultural impulses, protests, etc. Further, I once thought I'd get into journalism, did student radio & TV, wrote for a bit. I think seeing how the sausage is made, learning the craft, helps one develop an immunity. Having a contrarian reading list probably helped. For example, Robert Anton Wilson and stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
    - shaki-dora 8y ago
      Equating journalism with QAnon and recommending “contrarian reading” seems strange advise for avoiding conspiracy theories.
      - pjc50 8y ago
        Early is the keyword. I got through a lot of conspiracy / UFO stuff as a kid, the way others go through paranormal phases. I outgrew it, just as I outgrew Santa. Robert Anton Wilson is also good, because he presents all this stuff clearly marked as fiction.
      - specialist 8y ago
        What? My advice is to study the techniques, to better guard against them. This much is obvious, no? Though illustrative, I acknowledge The Illuminati and the Subgenius stuff are not very accessible. Thank You for Smoking https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 and Network https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 are probably more your speed.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  I would put it as "people misunderstand the source of their emotional resilience". A lot of people think that having "strong will" or "strong values" is what will prevent them from picking up extreme, obsessive or hateful ideas. Instead, anything like resilience is a process. Your friends and your community is part of it. Everyone is suggestible, everyone takes beliefs from associates as well as from experience. Conspiratorial and prejudiced ideas are seductive specifically because of how uncertain the world is. One has to reject such ideas in a way that avoids considering them in terms of "either this is true or this is false" since so many questions well beyond proof either way.
Canadauni 8y ago
It sounds like you did all you could in your situation and you were willing to work through it with her. Empathy and support are really all you can provide in situations like yours. Particularly as a partner there isn't much more you should do other than encourage professional help. Eating disorders are a complicated class of mental illness with a varying collection of co-morbid issues such as anxiety and depression. I've come to dislike the binary labeling of anorexia and bulimia because the symptomology is so much more complex than the classifications we give them.
sdegutis 8y ago
Online groups can and do influence people's thoughts and beliefs over time. Just my own anecdotes, but I've seen people completely turn against those in their lives who were obviously well meaning and supportive, because of baseless anger and fears which seem to have come from nowhere. And then it comes out that they were actively reading online groups that encouraged and normalized these anxieties and rage, condemning those who common sense and anyone else can plainly see are active forces of good in a person's life.
jacquesm 8y ago
These online groups have the same advantage that many other cults have over their victims: they can re-try until they find enough buttons to press that work to bring out the vulnerable people. It's like negotiating against a much more experienced adversary: you're going to lose. The only way to deal with that stuff is not to get exposed to it in the first place. Something similar happens with advertising, there too the best recipe is not to be exposed, not to think that you are strong enough to withstand it. One way in which these groups succeed is by alienating their victims from anybody that would empower them with common sense. Parents, siblings, spouses are all pushed away with tricks honed over many encounters.
- leppr 8y ago
  What does a "pro-ana" group gain from attracting new members ? Seems to me the dynamics are very different from a cult, where members are asked for money/work, and to bring new followers. This is mostly just teens discovering fetishes and sharing them to feel better about it.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    To drag in new members in order to normalize their own behavior. The more people do it the more normal you feel. Lots of cults are like that, not all of them have money or labor as their prime motivators.
  - madamelic 8y ago
    >What does a "pro-ana" group gain from attracting new members? Friends. I'm 'part' of a pretty positive one (they allow thinspo but don't encourage it, no one is shamed for speaking about anything they want) and I think in the right conditions, it is actual helpful. Many people (see thread) shame those with eating disorders and being around others can help recovery by being exposed to others with the disorder, even without having to be shamed by messages. Huge asterisk though. :)
  - everdrive 8y ago
    There are a lot of valid answers to this, but I honestly feel like they can all be boiled down to the same idea: people organize into groups, no matter what.
garyng 8y ago
You make me think of Boyinaband. (https://youtu.be/xR3hrZS2c0A?t=705 https://youtu.be/xR3hrZS2c0A?t=705)
namlem 8y ago
I've heard this type of story way too many times. People getting sucked into some social media community and becoming anxious, fearful, and bitter. Social media is much more dangerous than we bargained for it seems.

by dvtrn 8y ago

village-idiot 8y ago

I think a lot of people over-estimate the resilience of the human emotional state, especially their own. Time and time again we see regular functioning adults get sucked into objectively insane or self-harmful communities, be it the above phenomenon or 4chan crap like QAnon.

noobermin 8y ago
How many people follow QAnon or 4chan nonsense? You're over weighting a sheer minority of people who probably have other issues in their lives as for why they chase down conspiracy rabbit holes.
- stareatgoats 8y ago
  Came to say I agree with village-idiot, many if not everyone overestimate their emotional resilience and those that become victims usually become so inadvertently and don't realize the ramifications until it's either too late or a real steep climb to get back up. QAnon might not be the most common rabbit hole, but it was in all fairness just an example. The most common example is probably drugs and alcohol.
- groby_b 8y ago
  Alas, they don't have "other issues" - because recommendation algorithms drive people down the conspiracy rabbit holes. Conspiracy, fear, hate - they all drive engagement better than anything else. And since we all optimize for engagement, guess where things are heading. And no matter how resilient you are, there's some really dark shit out there. Ready to tear down even rather healthy people.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    optimize for engagement This to me seems like it's the key to all of this, or at least a portion of it that really shouldn't be ignored. As I shared, if my ex had other ongoing issues under the surface, they were never presented and she did a great job keeping the visible symptoms from manifesting for the better part of three years. Maybe she didn't realize they were there herself, hard to blame anyone for that. It doesn't seem that remarkable, contentious or incendiary of an idea to wonder if following these blogs and communities infiltrated and started poking at something that was already there, driving a curiosity to dig further, effectively picking at a scab....so to speak. And when the platform responds to your interactions, likes, reshares, searches by pushing more of that in your face, it doesn't seem any more remarkable that someone could find themselves facing mental anguish or other personal/emotional problems that wouldn't have ever otherwise seen the light of day.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      Optimization for engagement is actually quite scary to me: because the effects upon the user (beyond engagement) are literally meaningless. If the system can burn out your mental health while increasing engagement, it can and will make that choice.
Aeolun 8y ago
I have my own share of mental issues, but I just have a hard time seeing how I could ever get involved in one of these groups, much less believe the bullshit they are spouting. What is the situation that makes these seem like a solid choice?
- specialist 8y ago
  I'm more interested in how I (apparently) avoided it all. Methinks it's because I got it out of the way early on. I definitely have had my own phases for occult, religion, conspiracies, MLM, alcohol, outrage addiction, counter cultural impulses, protests, etc. Further, I once thought I'd get into journalism, did student radio & TV, wrote for a bit. I think seeing how the sausage is made, learning the craft, helps one develop an immunity. Having a contrarian reading list probably helped. For example, Robert Anton Wilson and stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
  - shaki-dora 8y ago
    Equating journalism with QAnon and recommending “contrarian reading” seems strange advise for avoiding conspiracy theories.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Early is the keyword. I got through a lot of conspiracy / UFO stuff as a kid, the way others go through paranormal phases. I outgrew it, just as I outgrew Santa. Robert Anton Wilson is also good, because he presents all this stuff clearly marked as fiction.
    - specialist 8y ago
      What? My advice is to study the techniques, to better guard against them. This much is obvious, no? Though illustrative, I acknowledge The Illuminati and the Subgenius stuff are not very accessible. Thank You for Smoking https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944 and Network https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958 are probably more your speed.
joe_the_user 8y ago
I would put it as "people misunderstand the source of their emotional resilience". A lot of people think that having "strong will" or "strong values" is what will prevent them from picking up extreme, obsessive or hateful ideas. Instead, anything like resilience is a process. Your friends and your community is part of it. Everyone is suggestible, everyone takes beliefs from associates as well as from experience. Conspiratorial and prejudiced ideas are seductive specifically because of how uncertain the world is. One has to reject such ideas in a way that avoids considering them in terms of "either this is true or this is false" since so many questions well beyond proof either way.

Canadauni 8y ago

It sounds like you did all you could in your situation and you were willing to work through it with her. Empathy and support are really all you can provide in situations like yours. Particularly as a partner there isn't much more you should do other than encourage professional help. Eating disorders are a complicated class of mental illness with a varying collection of co-morbid issues such as anxiety and depression. I've come to dislike the binary labeling of anorexia and bulimia because the symptomology is so much more complex than the classifications we give them.

sdegutis 8y ago

Online groups can and do influence people's thoughts and beliefs over time. Just my own anecdotes, but I've seen people completely turn against those in their lives who were obviously well meaning and supportive, because of baseless anger and fears which seem to have come from nowhere. And then it comes out that they were actively reading online groups that encouraged and normalized these anxieties and rage, condemning those who common sense and anyone else can plainly see are active forces of good in a person's life.

jacquesm 8y ago

These online groups have the same advantage that many other cults have over their victims: they can re-try until they find enough buttons to press that work to bring out the vulnerable people. It's like negotiating against a much more experienced adversary: you're going to lose. The only way to deal with that stuff is not to get exposed to it in the first place. Something similar happens with advertising, there too the best recipe is not to be exposed, not to think that you are strong enough to withstand it. One way in which these groups succeed is by alienating their victims from anybody that would empower them with common sense. Parents, siblings, spouses are all pushed away with tricks honed over many encounters.

leppr 8y ago
What does a "pro-ana" group gain from attracting new members ? Seems to me the dynamics are very different from a cult, where members are asked for money/work, and to bring new followers. This is mostly just teens discovering fetishes and sharing them to feel better about it.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  To drag in new members in order to normalize their own behavior. The more people do it the more normal you feel. Lots of cults are like that, not all of them have money or labor as their prime motivators.
- madamelic 8y ago
  >What does a "pro-ana" group gain from attracting new members? Friends. I'm 'part' of a pretty positive one (they allow thinspo but don't encourage it, no one is shamed for speaking about anything they want) and I think in the right conditions, it is actual helpful. Many people (see thread) shame those with eating disorders and being around others can help recovery by being exposed to others with the disorder, even without having to be shamed by messages. Huge asterisk though. :)
- everdrive 8y ago
  There are a lot of valid answers to this, but I honestly feel like they can all be boiled down to the same idea: people organize into groups, no matter what.

garyng 8y ago

You make me think of Boyinaband. (https://youtu.be/xR3hrZS2c0A?t=705 https://youtu.be/xR3hrZS2c0A?t=705)

namlem 8y ago

I've heard this type of story way too many times. People getting sucked into some social media community and becoming anxious, fearful, and bitter. Social media is much more dangerous than we bargained for it seems.