7 ms·

Also. You get a big truck/SUV for the same reason people prefer a big TV or a large suburban home than a 2 bedroom condo. Bigger is better, at least in the U.S.

by mtw 8y ago

bsamuels 8y ago
it's also because Americans spend a lot more time in their car than their friends across the pond. if you're in your car for 2 hours a day commuting, driving the kids around, etc, then bigger is better and more comfortable
- fhood 8y ago
  A 2003 diesel jetta is way better on the highway than a 2015 ford explorer.
  - flictonic 8y ago
    This is an absolutely crazy response. In no world is a 15 year old economy sedan more comfortable for a highway commute than a newer SUV. The only argument you could make is fuel economy.
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      The diesel Jetta emits way more particulate pollution than a modern gasoline-burning SUV, too. Like over an order of magnitude more.
    - marcosdumay 8y ago
      I imagine the GP was talking about easiness to drive. Low cars are more stable and lighter cars accelerate better (not only on speed-ups, but while breaking too). Overall, driving a truck is much more stressing than a car.
      - flictonic 8y ago
        But we're specifically talking about highway commutes where driving dynamics don't really come into play. IMO, the higher position alone makes driving an SUV superior on the highway but the 2003 Jetta reference is what really makes the comment absurd.
        olivermarks 8y ago
        Historically (50's thru early 70's) Americans considered v8 full size cars and wagons the only way to travel the multi thousand mile trips common on the continent. Japanese cars changed all that and their smaller form factor became the norm. Mid sized pickups (Chevy LUV) were unseated by Toyota and other brands and replaced station wagons. SUV and minivans became the norm for families. The high end luxury touring/prestige market remains pretty strong - european brands (even if actually owned by Indians) continue to attract demand. Sedans have increasingly been two door performance vehicles (Challenger, Mustang, Camaro) effectively being full sized sports cars. Only vehicles like the Accord, Camry etc are sold as family vehicles. The exception is hybrids, which IMO are the way forward, replacing the hum drum commuter and family multi use saloons with much greater fuel efficiency. There's a tiny niche market for heavily government subsidized and mostly luxury and status signaling EV's, and this market will almost certainly expand with intense political pressure and Chinese dominance. The challenge is that for decades US unions have protected the jobs around the vast transportation economic ecosphere - parts, infrastructure, design, build. This is all arguably being ceded to Asia with the oligarch pied piper Elon Musk selling the Western dream of cheap ultimately autonomous 'green' transportation. What's missing from the Bloomberg article is that Ford Fusion and Focus are on global platforms and remain very strong in europe and elsewhere.
        dorfsmay 8y ago
        Hybrids are no longer a category on their own. You can buy a Camry or even SUVs in hybrid, and all the brands are expanding their offer to most of their vehicles.
        burfog 8y ago
        Your comment that "Ford Fusion and Focus are on global platforms" may explain why the Ford cars were so tiny when I looked at them last year. I felt like buying a Ford, but none of the cars had enough room for my head. I'm sure it helps fuel economy and knocks 1% off the price, and few people will care in South America or Asia, but it was a deal killer for me.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      Comfort is subjective. I had a Jetta and found it very comfortable, though most people would have thought it too firm or even harsh.
      - petre 8y ago
        It's probably because it's smaller and lighther and it tends to bounce more longitudinally in turns. Being used to small cars I also find it confortable. A Passat wagon is more confortable though but the misdesigned a/c and the seats ruin it somewhat.
    - war1025 8y ago
      Anecdotally, I hate riding in trucks and SUVs for long distances. Particularly SUVs. Can't stand those things. Particularly as a passenger in the back seat. The view height out the windshield is wonky and made me motion sick last time I spent much time in one.
  - MandieD 8y ago
    I drove a rental Ford Fusion Hybrid and then a Ford Expedition on my trip to Texas this summer. The Fusion was a joy to drive; the Expedition was a chore. Squishy driver's seat, soggy handling, and of course, three times the fuel consumption of the Fusion hybrid. If I recall properly, the North American Fusion is a slightly reworked Mondeo, which is considered a nice-ish car over here, and would also explain why I thought it was nice: we have a Fiesta and just sold my diesel Focus wagon. Sorry to see that just when Ford seemed to have figured out that their European division designs decent small cars, they’ve given up on bringing them into the North American market.
- ip26 8y ago
  It could also be that Americans are bigger. (I'm not referring to height)
  - stevehawk 8y ago
    except, we aren't. people are fat everywhere. we aren't even the fattest country.
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      What is more relevant here is fatness of population among car manufacturing nations. Not sure that the US wins that either though.
    - brianbreslin 8y ago
      which country is the fattest? I assumed it was here in the US.
      - jcranmer 8y ago
        In obesity rankings, Pacific island nations tend to top the list. I think Mexico is fatter than the US, as well as the the petrostates in the Middle East.
    - viraptor 8y ago
      Not the fatest, but really close. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_ma... 36.2% obesity, 12th place. Beaten mostly by small island nations. It's still the 1st most obese western country.
      - kenhwang 8y ago
        BMI might not be the best indicator since it also factors in height. If we go by weight only, USA is #3 behind two small island nations. Americans are big. They also have more fat people than other western nations. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9345086/The-worlds-fattest-countries-how-do-you-compare.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9345086/The...
- alexanderwept 8y ago
  But trucks aren't that much 'bigger' on the inside than sedans. Go sit in a Toyota Avalon and a Tahoe and tell me where you have more room. The Avalon probably has 80% as much noise on the freeway and if you set the cruise control to 80, the sedan is going to get 2x-3x better MPG and the Avalon costs half as much as the Tahoe. What's the adage about a fool and their money?
- closeparen 8y ago
  Often for the price of an SUV you could drive a luxury/sport sedan and have better driving dynamics, fit, and finish as well as comfort.
taf2 8y ago
or you have 3 kids and baby and need the space to drive them music lessons and pick up their friends
- del82 8y ago
  If it were only about hauling people then isn't a minivan as good or better? But U.S. manufacturers are abandoning minivans even more quickly than sedans-- only Chrysler still makes one, Ford and GM don't. The chicken tax and the "cool" factor / branding must play a role over and above the raw utility of hauling lots of people, surely?
  - ip26 8y ago
    The minivan-shaped hole in the market is being filled by crossovers. But really it's a longer story than that. Minivans had previously replaced station wagons, and the crossovers of today tend to look like a cross between a minivan and a wagon.
    - mtberatwork 8y ago
      Crossovers seem to me to be the worst of all worlds. They have poor gas mileage and terrible highway aerodynamics like large SUVs and have limited trunk space while lacking "utility" features such as trailer hitch mounts or 4WD as standard.
      - ip26 8y ago
        Yes, but many, many people have no use for factory hitches, 4x4, or 6500lb towing capacities. What they want is interior room for passengers, high roofline, visibility, and elevated vantage point. As minivans became unhip (& expensive), consumers found these things in SUV's, but didn't like the price, gas mileage, handling, or safety. So SUV's evolved towards hatches & wagons with better aero, car-like handling, and monocoque frames, and the crossover was born.
      - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        They get better gas milage than any truck or truck based SUV. Their aero isn't as good as a car but it's better than a truck based SUV. Fold the seats and you've got a trunk only slightly smaller than a minivan without the 3rd row. AWD SUVs are readily available and generally the standard. FWD is generally reserved for people who want to go out of their way to be economical about it. Trailer hitch is solved with $300 and a trip to Uhaul (or for the mechanically inclined: $120, Amazon and a 30% chance of needing a drill). With modern horsepower and brakes you can comfortably tow some stupidly large stuff with crossovers so long as you've got a weight distribution hitch to take some of the weight off the rear axle. Crossovers do nothing great but they do everything passably well, just like the station wagons of the 1950s-80s they replaced.
graeme 8y ago
Zoning encourages that large suburban home, by making walkable cities more expensive than they are elsewhere. So, there are regulations pushing people in the direction of large homes and large vehicles.

Also. You get a big truck/SUV for the same reason people prefer a big TV or a large suburban home than a 2 bedroom condo. Bigger is better, at least in the U.S.

by mtw 8y ago

Also. You get a big truck/SUV for the same reason people prefer a big TV or a large suburban home than a 2 bedroom condo. Bigger is better, at least in the U.S.

bsamuels 8y ago

it's also because Americans spend a lot more time in their car than their friends across the pond. if you're in your car for 2 hours a day commuting, driving the kids around, etc, then bigger is better and more comfortable

fhood 8y ago
A 2003 diesel jetta is way better on the highway than a 2015 ford explorer.
- flictonic 8y ago
  This is an absolutely crazy response. In no world is a 15 year old economy sedan more comfortable for a highway commute than a newer SUV. The only argument you could make is fuel economy.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    The diesel Jetta emits way more particulate pollution than a modern gasoline-burning SUV, too. Like over an order of magnitude more.
  - marcosdumay 8y ago
    I imagine the GP was talking about easiness to drive. Low cars are more stable and lighter cars accelerate better (not only on speed-ups, but while breaking too). Overall, driving a truck is much more stressing than a car.
    - flictonic 8y ago
      But we're specifically talking about highway commutes where driving dynamics don't really come into play. IMO, the higher position alone makes driving an SUV superior on the highway but the 2003 Jetta reference is what really makes the comment absurd.
      - olivermarks 8y ago
        Historically (50's thru early 70's) Americans considered v8 full size cars and wagons the only way to travel the multi thousand mile trips common on the continent. Japanese cars changed all that and their smaller form factor became the norm. Mid sized pickups (Chevy LUV) were unseated by Toyota and other brands and replaced station wagons. SUV and minivans became the norm for families. The high end luxury touring/prestige market remains pretty strong - european brands (even if actually owned by Indians) continue to attract demand. Sedans have increasingly been two door performance vehicles (Challenger, Mustang, Camaro) effectively being full sized sports cars. Only vehicles like the Accord, Camry etc are sold as family vehicles. The exception is hybrids, which IMO are the way forward, replacing the hum drum commuter and family multi use saloons with much greater fuel efficiency. There's a tiny niche market for heavily government subsidized and mostly luxury and status signaling EV's, and this market will almost certainly expand with intense political pressure and Chinese dominance. The challenge is that for decades US unions have protected the jobs around the vast transportation economic ecosphere - parts, infrastructure, design, build. This is all arguably being ceded to Asia with the oligarch pied piper Elon Musk selling the Western dream of cheap ultimately autonomous 'green' transportation. What's missing from the Bloomberg article is that Ford Fusion and Focus are on global platforms and remain very strong in europe and elsewhere.
        dorfsmay 8y ago
        Hybrids are no longer a category on their own. You can buy a Camry or even SUVs in hybrid, and all the brands are expanding their offer to most of their vehicles.
        burfog 8y ago
        Your comment that "Ford Fusion and Focus are on global platforms" may explain why the Ford cars were so tiny when I looked at them last year. I felt like buying a Ford, but none of the cars had enough room for my head. I'm sure it helps fuel economy and knocks 1% off the price, and few people will care in South America or Asia, but it was a deal killer for me.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Comfort is subjective. I had a Jetta and found it very comfortable, though most people would have thought it too firm or even harsh.
    - petre 8y ago
      It's probably because it's smaller and lighther and it tends to bounce more longitudinally in turns. Being used to small cars I also find it confortable. A Passat wagon is more confortable though but the misdesigned a/c and the seats ruin it somewhat.
  - war1025 8y ago
    Anecdotally, I hate riding in trucks and SUVs for long distances. Particularly SUVs. Can't stand those things. Particularly as a passenger in the back seat. The view height out the windshield is wonky and made me motion sick last time I spent much time in one.
- MandieD 8y ago
  I drove a rental Ford Fusion Hybrid and then a Ford Expedition on my trip to Texas this summer. The Fusion was a joy to drive; the Expedition was a chore. Squishy driver's seat, soggy handling, and of course, three times the fuel consumption of the Fusion hybrid. If I recall properly, the North American Fusion is a slightly reworked Mondeo, which is considered a nice-ish car over here, and would also explain why I thought it was nice: we have a Fiesta and just sold my diesel Focus wagon. Sorry to see that just when Ford seemed to have figured out that their European division designs decent small cars, they’ve given up on bringing them into the North American market.
ip26 8y ago
It could also be that Americans are bigger. (I'm not referring to height)
- stevehawk 8y ago
  except, we aren't. people are fat everywhere. we aren't even the fattest country.
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    What is more relevant here is fatness of population among car manufacturing nations. Not sure that the US wins that either though.
  - brianbreslin 8y ago
    which country is the fattest? I assumed it was here in the US.
    - jcranmer 8y ago
      In obesity rankings, Pacific island nations tend to top the list. I think Mexico is fatter than the US, as well as the the petrostates in the Middle East.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    Not the fatest, but really close. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_ma... 36.2% obesity, 12th place. Beaten mostly by small island nations. It's still the 1st most obese western country.
    - kenhwang 8y ago
      BMI might not be the best indicator since it also factors in height. If we go by weight only, USA is #3 behind two small island nations. Americans are big. They also have more fat people than other western nations. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9345086/The-worlds-fattest-countries-how-do-you-compare.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9345086/The...
alexanderwept 8y ago
But trucks aren't that much 'bigger' on the inside than sedans. Go sit in a Toyota Avalon and a Tahoe and tell me where you have more room. The Avalon probably has 80% as much noise on the freeway and if you set the cruise control to 80, the sedan is going to get 2x-3x better MPG and the Avalon costs half as much as the Tahoe. What's the adage about a fool and their money?
closeparen 8y ago
Often for the price of an SUV you could drive a luxury/sport sedan and have better driving dynamics, fit, and finish as well as comfort.

taf2 8y ago

or you have 3 kids and baby and need the space to drive them music lessons and pick up their friends

del82 8y ago
If it were only about hauling people then isn't a minivan as good or better? But U.S. manufacturers are abandoning minivans even more quickly than sedans-- only Chrysler still makes one, Ford and GM don't. The chicken tax and the "cool" factor / branding must play a role over and above the raw utility of hauling lots of people, surely?
- ip26 8y ago
  The minivan-shaped hole in the market is being filled by crossovers. But really it's a longer story than that. Minivans had previously replaced station wagons, and the crossovers of today tend to look like a cross between a minivan and a wagon.
  - mtberatwork 8y ago
    Crossovers seem to me to be the worst of all worlds. They have poor gas mileage and terrible highway aerodynamics like large SUVs and have limited trunk space while lacking "utility" features such as trailer hitch mounts or 4WD as standard.
    - ip26 8y ago
      Yes, but many, many people have no use for factory hitches, 4x4, or 6500lb towing capacities. What they want is interior room for passengers, high roofline, visibility, and elevated vantage point. As minivans became unhip (& expensive), consumers found these things in SUV's, but didn't like the price, gas mileage, handling, or safety. So SUV's evolved towards hatches & wagons with better aero, car-like handling, and monocoque frames, and the crossover was born.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      They get better gas milage than any truck or truck based SUV. Their aero isn't as good as a car but it's better than a truck based SUV. Fold the seats and you've got a trunk only slightly smaller than a minivan without the 3rd row. AWD SUVs are readily available and generally the standard. FWD is generally reserved for people who want to go out of their way to be economical about it. Trailer hitch is solved with $300 and a trip to Uhaul (or for the mechanically inclined: $120, Amazon and a 30% chance of needing a drill). With modern horsepower and brakes you can comfortably tow some stupidly large stuff with crossovers so long as you've got a weight distribution hitch to take some of the weight off the rear axle. Crossovers do nothing great but they do everything passably well, just like the station wagons of the 1950s-80s they replaced.

graeme 8y ago

Zoning encourages that large suburban home, by making walkable cities more expensive than they are elsewhere. So, there are regulations pushing people in the direction of large homes and large vehicles.