6 ms·

Uber says air transportation drones are closer than we think

29 points by raleighm 8y ago

sigi45 8y ago
I don't think so.
mega_behemoth 8y ago
That is just stupid. Solving the mobility problem should start with stopping the need to mobile. Most people. People who are IP addresses should be able to work from home. High Street Shops are not necessary and should close.
adrianmonk 8y ago
> Uber is partnering with a variety of aerospace companies to develop a VTOL vehicle that can overcome the limitations of using helicopters for transportation at scale: noise and cost. What about energy efficiency? Perhaps that's covered under cost? But if not, this could be a step backward in a way.
- lsc 8y ago
  >What about energy efficiency? if that isn't covered in cost, then there are externalities that need to be rolled into the cost of fuel or the like.
- sschueller 8y ago
  Isn't the primary noise of a helicopter the airflow? Sure the engines make some noise which you could reduce but how do you remove airflow noise and generate enough lift?
taneq 8y ago
Electric Osprey-esque coaxial bicopter tiltrotor with ridiculously high disc loading and unguarded props sharing ground-space with pedestrians and then flying over densely populated urban centers? At a communter-friendly price which will enable "transportation at scale"? Oh, it's exactly as close as I think it is.
- fsloth 8y ago
  To my understanding the reason helicopters are expensive is the cost of acquiring and operating the airframe. I would imagine a scaled up drone-like airframe would be a lot more cheaper than helicopter. That's why I don't think "drones as flying taxis" is as silly as you make it sound. Helicopters are used in urban areas. I don't see any fundamental reason why drones would not work equally well but with more traffic since they would be cheaper. Like you point out, the unguarded props and so on mean it wouldn't be sharing ground-space with pedestrians - not at least like cars do. Unless.. I don't know if there any way to do an emergency stop to a large scale electric prop. At least power saws stop instantly to stop cutting limbs away. Maybe there could be a similar "proximity failsafe" in the props of urban taxi-drones.
  - supermatt 8y ago
    Power saws don't stop instantly. There is a massive amount of energy in those spinning disks. There are some safety mechanisms available (atypically) that use explosive charges to move the blade away and/or physically destroy it (in the case of table saws), but you cant simply stop something with that much momentum.
    - ljf 8y ago
      /some/ power saws can stop instantly - if you try and touch this one with a finger it will stop before it can do damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk
      - Balero 8y ago
        The method these use, retracting the blade, and jamming it into a block of metal to stop the momentum would not work on a aircraft. This method (whilst pretty amazing) does not work outside of a static machine. You would need a couple of tons of metal attached to each rotor, and thats before getting into what would happen when you actually try and stop the rotor.
thereisnospork 8y ago
I could see the business model working for short haul direct to destination flights, think Bay area -> Tahoe/Yosemite. where driving is slow and conventional airline infrastructure is ineffective. I am however quite doubtful of their ability to engineer a safe consumer-grade osprey at an appropriate cost-point.
- sigi45 8y ago
  Imagine it is easy. The downside of it as well. Whatever capacity that drone will have, it will cost more than a taxi. Now you have already something with high risk and higher price. Who will use it? The avg John Doe? Nope. It is only usefull for a handfull of people. Probably people who have enough money to use something quicker than a car on the road. Do i wanna have some rich ass idiot flying above me in a city legally? No. And for everyone asking why: Noise and Risk.
  - thereisnospork 8y ago
    It's a different use case than a taxi. Think 4-6hr drive times down to an hour or so by air - without the hub-to-hub / security restrictions of commercial jets.
whbk 8y ago
s/air transportation drones/their ipo Expect all manner of Hot New Things coming from their PR dept over the next couple quarters.
lolc 8y ago
Five years ago: We're in the best position to develop autonomous cars. Now: Look we botched the cars but the airplanes are going to work on the first try! In five years: Nevermind those crashes we'll be dominating the autonomous spaceship market!
ninedays 8y ago
Sounds the same than Samsung annoncing a foldable smartphone in 2012 and doing the same every year until it inevitably becomes true. I highly doubt we are that close to air transportation but I truly wish I were wrong.
amelius 8y ago
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that those drones would be bigger than what most people think of as drones. The typical consumer drone is small, lightweight, but has a range of a few hundred meters even without payload. The drone Uber is talking about is probably the size of a large suitcase with rotors the size of bicycle wheels; the size would allow it to have a bigger battery to carry some payload and to have a bigger range. I'm not sure if I'd like to see this type of drone flying around in swarms in my city.
- uptown 8y ago
  The article has a marketing video of their concept drone. It’s showing a drone that’s small-airplane sized, capable of transporting multiple passengers.
- lolc 8y ago
  Military drones are comparable in size. And we don't like to see those flying around cities either.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Maybe if you lived in a city in a warzone you'd see more drones overhead?
    - lolc 8y ago
      I don't think I would like that.
londons_explore 8y ago
Uber's opinion might be distorted by the high importance of being first to autonomous drones / autonomous cars to keep their business model intect and justify their valuation.
deytempo 8y ago
What I distrust about a race is there is often the willingness to cut corners to be a winner. In the case of an automobile, as long as it doesn’t spontaneously explode, flip over when turning a corner at “moderate” speed, or fail to stop when you break, the corner cutting results mostly in annoyance and costly repairs. In the case of a flying vehicle, the list of potential ways to have a very bad day goes up very quickly. The main reason we don’t have it yet is because it isn’t necessary yet. It would require new dimensions of traffic laws and safety precautions.
_archon_ 8y ago
Why is there no discussion of a this response: "Of course Uber says this; they're heavily invested in this tech and want it to succeed." I don't understand how a tech company that's developing a thing saying the thing is being developed is relevant to bring to everyone's attention. Why does this exist?
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  How is it not relevant? It's PR to keep excitement and anticipation growing so that they can continue to get investors putting money into it.
sbhn 8y ago
If you can pay the insurance, anything is possible
scirocco 8y ago
Airlines at LAX must love their LA plans...
james_pm 8y ago
A few "drones" flying through the air with 2-4 people aboard, looking down on a traffic jam with hundreds or thousands of cars and this is going to "solve" something?
dboreham 8y ago
Much closer than self-driving cars, I'd venture to suggest.
jostmey 8y ago
I'm worried about emissions from the aircraft, which I am guessing will probably be gas powered. Airplane emissions are not as tightly regulated as automobiles. In fact, airplanes are allowed to use leaded fuel [1]. Now imagine a fleet of uber planes flying around constantly over your city. 1. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lead-in-aviation-fuel/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lead-in-aviation-...
- nradov 8y ago
  Leaded avgas is going away, although slowly. No one is developing new piston engines or complete aircraft that use it. Any liquid fuels for new aircraft are going to be unleaded gasoline or (more likely) kerosene.

29 points by raleighm 8y ago

I don't think so.

That is just stupid. Solving the mobility problem should start with stopping the need to mobile. Most people. People who are IP addresses should be able to work from home. High Street Shops are not necessary and should close.

adrianmonk 8y ago

> Uber is partnering with a variety of aerospace companies to develop a VTOL vehicle that can overcome the limitations of using helicopters for transportation at scale: noise and cost. What about energy efficiency? Perhaps that's covered under cost? But if not, this could be a step backward in a way.

lsc 8y ago
>What about energy efficiency? if that isn't covered in cost, then there are externalities that need to be rolled into the cost of fuel or the like.
sschueller 8y ago
Isn't the primary noise of a helicopter the airflow? Sure the engines make some noise which you could reduce but how do you remove airflow noise and generate enough lift?

taneq 8y ago

Electric Osprey-esque coaxial bicopter tiltrotor with ridiculously high disc loading and unguarded props sharing ground-space with pedestrians and then flying over densely populated urban centers? At a communter-friendly price which will enable "transportation at scale"? Oh, it's exactly as close as I think it is.

fsloth 8y ago
To my understanding the reason helicopters are expensive is the cost of acquiring and operating the airframe. I would imagine a scaled up drone-like airframe would be a lot more cheaper than helicopter. That's why I don't think "drones as flying taxis" is as silly as you make it sound. Helicopters are used in urban areas. I don't see any fundamental reason why drones would not work equally well but with more traffic since they would be cheaper. Like you point out, the unguarded props and so on mean it wouldn't be sharing ground-space with pedestrians - not at least like cars do. Unless.. I don't know if there any way to do an emergency stop to a large scale electric prop. At least power saws stop instantly to stop cutting limbs away. Maybe there could be a similar "proximity failsafe" in the props of urban taxi-drones.
- supermatt 8y ago
  Power saws don't stop instantly. There is a massive amount of energy in those spinning disks. There are some safety mechanisms available (atypically) that use explosive charges to move the blade away and/or physically destroy it (in the case of table saws), but you cant simply stop something with that much momentum.
  - ljf 8y ago
    /some/ power saws can stop instantly - if you try and touch this one with a finger it will stop before it can do damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk
    - Balero 8y ago
      The method these use, retracting the blade, and jamming it into a block of metal to stop the momentum would not work on a aircraft. This method (whilst pretty amazing) does not work outside of a static machine. You would need a couple of tons of metal attached to each rotor, and thats before getting into what would happen when you actually try and stop the rotor.

thereisnospork 8y ago

I could see the business model working for short haul direct to destination flights, think Bay area -> Tahoe/Yosemite. where driving is slow and conventional airline infrastructure is ineffective. I am however quite doubtful of their ability to engineer a safe consumer-grade osprey at an appropriate cost-point.

sigi45 8y ago
Imagine it is easy. The downside of it as well. Whatever capacity that drone will have, it will cost more than a taxi. Now you have already something with high risk and higher price. Who will use it? The avg John Doe? Nope. It is only usefull for a handfull of people. Probably people who have enough money to use something quicker than a car on the road. Do i wanna have some rich ass idiot flying above me in a city legally? No. And for everyone asking why: Noise and Risk.
- thereisnospork 8y ago
  It's a different use case than a taxi. Think 4-6hr drive times down to an hour or so by air - without the hub-to-hub / security restrictions of commercial jets.

whbk 8y ago

s/air transportation drones/their ipo Expect all manner of Hot New Things coming from their PR dept over the next couple quarters.

lolc 8y ago

Five years ago: We're in the best position to develop autonomous cars. Now: Look we botched the cars but the airplanes are going to work on the first try! In five years: Nevermind those crashes we'll be dominating the autonomous spaceship market!

ninedays 8y ago

Sounds the same than Samsung annoncing a foldable smartphone in 2012 and doing the same every year until it inevitably becomes true. I highly doubt we are that close to air transportation but I truly wish I were wrong.

amelius 8y ago

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that those drones would be bigger than what most people think of as drones. The typical consumer drone is small, lightweight, but has a range of a few hundred meters even without payload. The drone Uber is talking about is probably the size of a large suitcase with rotors the size of bicycle wheels; the size would allow it to have a bigger battery to carry some payload and to have a bigger range. I'm not sure if I'd like to see this type of drone flying around in swarms in my city.

uptown 8y ago
The article has a marketing video of their concept drone. It’s showing a drone that’s small-airplane sized, capable of transporting multiple passengers.
lolc 8y ago
Military drones are comparable in size. And we don't like to see those flying around cities either.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Maybe if you lived in a city in a warzone you'd see more drones overhead?
  - lolc 8y ago
    I don't think I would like that.

londons_explore 8y ago

Uber's opinion might be distorted by the high importance of being first to autonomous drones / autonomous cars to keep their business model intect and justify their valuation.

deytempo 8y ago

What I distrust about a race is there is often the willingness to cut corners to be a winner. In the case of an automobile, as long as it doesn’t spontaneously explode, flip over when turning a corner at “moderate” speed, or fail to stop when you break, the corner cutting results mostly in annoyance and costly repairs. In the case of a flying vehicle, the list of potential ways to have a very bad day goes up very quickly. The main reason we don’t have it yet is because it isn’t necessary yet. It would require new dimensions of traffic laws and safety precautions.

_archon_ 8y ago

Why is there no discussion of a this response: "Of course Uber says this; they're heavily invested in this tech and want it to succeed." I don't understand how a tech company that's developing a thing saying the thing is being developed is relevant to bring to everyone's attention. Why does this exist?

JustSomeNobody 8y ago
How is it not relevant? It's PR to keep excitement and anticipation growing so that they can continue to get investors putting money into it.

sbhn 8y ago

If you can pay the insurance, anything is possible

scirocco 8y ago

Airlines at LAX must love their LA plans...

james_pm 8y ago

A few "drones" flying through the air with 2-4 people aboard, looking down on a traffic jam with hundreds or thousands of cars and this is going to "solve" something?

dboreham 8y ago

Much closer than self-driving cars, I'd venture to suggest.

jostmey 8y ago

I'm worried about emissions from the aircraft, which I am guessing will probably be gas powered. Airplane emissions are not as tightly regulated as automobiles. In fact, airplanes are allowed to use leaded fuel [1]. Now imagine a fleet of uber planes flying around constantly over your city. 1. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lead-in-aviation-fuel/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lead-in-aviation-...

nradov 8y ago
Leaded avgas is going away, although slowly. No one is developing new piston engines or complete aircraft that use it. Any liquid fuels for new aircraft are going to be unleaded gasoline or (more likely) kerosene.