8 ms·

How to host your own distributed website in just a few seconds

156 points by Noc2 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
amelius 8y ago
> If you want to keep this file available, even though people might not constantly open it, you need to pin it to an IPFS gateway. We can help you with this, just send us the hash of your webpage, and we make sure it stays online. And since you are sending us an email anyway, maybe include some feedback/ideas for the further improvement of Dweb.page Email? For every update of the website? Sounds to me like the opposite of convenient. > The best way to solve this is to create a single page application (SPA) and put all the code into one HTML file. This way your webpage loads much faster on the distributed web and you don’t have any issues with links. A good argument in favor of SPAs.
- dboreham 8y ago
  >The best way to solve this is to create a single page application Another way (arguably more convenient than redesigning the site) is to make a flattened copy of the site's files using a tool such as https://www.httrack.com/ https://www.httrack.com/ such that all the component files (CSS, JS, etc) end up in the same IPFS directory and hence accessed under the same hash.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  > and you don’t have any issues with links So if this takes over the world hyperlinking will be dead?
- Noc2 8y ago
  The email is just a first solution to test it and also to get some feedback. It’s open source project that just started: https://github.com/PACTCare/Dweb.page https://github.com/PACTCare/Dweb.page
jancsika 8y ago
> You now can request your website from any ipfs gateway, like https://ipfs.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.io/ipfs/, https://ipfs.infura.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.infura.io/ipfs/ or https://ipfs.eternum.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.eternum.io/ipfs/ + your hash. That is significantly more work than posting a torrent to a tracker, with significantly less discoverability. Is that hash at least decoupled from the content? Edit: clarification
- idle_zealot 8y ago
  > Is that hash at least decoupled from the content? It sure isn't! IPFS is a content-addressed network. If you want to update your site without changing it's address then you'll need a layer of indirection, such as IPNS, which allows a node on the network to redirect ipns://<my key> to an updatable content hash. This feature has been immature for a while now. In my experience, Dat is the more mature option, though it seems to lack an official http gateway[0]. Combined with Beaker though,it makes web authoring an absolute breeze. [0]: though unofficial public ones can be found here, as well as the tools needed to host your own https://github.com/RangerMauve/dat-gateway/ https://github.com/RangerMauve/dat-gateway/
  - EGreg 8y ago
    I really like Dat. Too bad hypercore doesn’t really have any way for MULTIPLE users to write to the same file, or even a way to recover from a single user making conflicting edits at the same time. If I were to add a pluggable consensus module to Dat, where would it go?
    - oelmekki 8y ago
      I totally love that feature, actually. I'm toying currently with an app to do play by post d&d campaigns on Dat, I make one user create a Dat archive to hold game data, then each player has their own archive for their character, the game archive hold references to the public keys for each one, and then the application takes each character feed and merge them to present a seamless discussion. This feels like contributing to the same document, and yet each user is in total control of their data (almost total control, because they cannot decide to erase it if other people are already seeding it). I also love the possibilities of scaling it implies : when each user hosts their own data, the number of users doesn't matter (provided they all interact in reasonably small groups, of course). EDIT: oh btw, I can create archives on-the-fly because I'm using Beaker browser's api. I don't know if it's something possible with Dat by itself.
marknadal 8y ago
The "permanent web" has now just become "the most popular pinned web" like torrents did. :( I really think we need to expand our use cases to included mutable and immutable content. People simply are not going to switch to the dweb if they have to deal with this complexity. I did a talk on this at the Internet Archive's Decentralized Web Summit a few months ago, and how we can fix this, alongside a bunch of others in the dWeb space like DAT, SSB, etc. ( https://www.decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-better-algorithms-for-a-decentralized-webthe-gun-stack/ https://www.decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-better-algorith...).
- diggan 8y ago
  > The "permanent web" has now just become "the most popular pinned web" like torrents did. :( That'd be great! Torrents are great for keeping content alive, and if it's not alive (not having any seeds), you can find someone who had the content before to just start their client, add the content again and all the content is still referred the same way. I remember a while back on HN, the oldest torrent was discussed but unfortunately it didn't have any seeds. The original author of the content saw this, and started it's node, allowing people to download it again, without having to pass around new links/IDs. I think it was a Matrix remake called "The Fanimatrix", but I can't find the comment anymore. Torrents are great for making sure content is available for a long time, something the current web suck at. Imagine the same with websites. Rather than Yahoo deciding for the world that Geocities shouldn't be online anymore, people can decide to help out to host it, and no links would change. That's a future I can get behind! Would make it super easy to recover websites, compared to our current ways (hoping that Internet Archive have previously archived the website) > I really think we need to expand our use cases to included mutable and immutable content. > People simply are not going to switch to the dweb if they have to deal with this complexity. Agree with both points! And I think I specifically have told you this before as well here on HN, IPFS does support dynamic content out-of-the-box with pubsub and raw streams to other peers. However, the basic building blocks IPFS provides, aren't really meant to replace the currently easy experience of web development. For a better developer experience, there are libraries wrapping IPFS. Examples include https://github.com/ipfs-shipyard/peer-star-app/blob/master/docs/API.md https://github.com/ipfs-shipyard/peer-star-app/blob/master/d... and https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/ https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/, both very easy to use. Disclaimer: I work for Protocol Labs on IPFS and related projects
superkuh 8y ago
I guess it's eventually distributed but but still centralized in terms of using ipfs and having to go through gateways. A truly distributed means of hosting is everyone hosting their own websites from their home connections. It's simpler and no central authorities are needed. Home connections are plenty fast these days. And the best part is that you get tons of storage space and you don't have to 'upload' anywhere. You can also make real websites instead of 'single page application' javascript monsters.
- Santosh83 8y ago
  In this case you're still beholden to your ISP and whoever controls them. True decentralisation would be something like mesh networks, making use of only local device capabilities.
  - superkuh 8y ago
    If your ISP is not a dumb pipe then everything else is already lost. Mesh networks only work if you pay the big money for rental on building roofs and existing towers. This money, and so height, and so line of sight, is why cell networks work. You might get some non-profit going in areas especially conducive to it (ie, high population density cities where residents have access to their roofs, or coastal areas with large mountains).
- erikb 8y ago
  > truly distributed means of hosting is everyone hosting their own websites That means "self-hosted". Distributed hosting means you can't host it in one place. I agree though, that one might consider it as a form of decentralized hosting if everybody hosts their own stuff, which you also totally can now that we have cheap computing power like raspis.
  - buboard 8y ago
    the cheapest computer we all have are home routers. would be nice to them coming with ipfs preinstalled (and perhaps turned on by default!)
blairanderson 8y ago
this is click bait.
freddieRidell 8y ago
Instead of using IFPS, which currently needs gateways, you can get a fully distributed site using https://beakerbrowser.com/ https://beakerbrowser.com/ It's based on the https://datproject.org/ https://datproject.org/ which is also used to archive and distribute scientific data.
TekMol 8y ago
I have no idea what I am doing, but after uploading a text file, that dweg.page thing tells me to share this link: https://untangle.care/ipfs/QmaSpmvTr68z3EgTp2XFZdBzc1HwNPQXWHyF34rpctJgCs/index.html?id=QmaJnDnZfzP64nq7Ujjed5S8NNweMLX3jcEbrremZNzCEo https://untangle.care/ipfs/QmaSpmvTr68z3EgTp2XFZdBzc1HwNPQXW... And this password: xngojhmH10zb2oLA7COya6pHZ3qkmQAJuX7cwqBkRJM Ok, so now I kind of published my haiku in encrypted form on IPFS? Why was it encrypted? I tried to redownload it from one of the other ipfs gateways, but so for to no avail. Any ideas how to do it?
- Noc2 8y ago
  I definitely need to improve the user experience of this switch between public and private. Ideas are highly appreciated!
  - CGamesPlay 8y ago
    Include the password in the URL fragment like mega.co.nz does. I built something similar actually, you might want to look at it: Source: https://github.com/CGamesPlay/ipfs-fileshare https://github.com/CGamesPlay/ipfs-fileshare Published version: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3YeyWJMhW/ https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3Y... Example encrypted file: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3YeyWJMhW/#3AMeoSGKfn3xpJogXzQWQgE4D2cC3i6p1HJCPekN24W2fUgVR9ZsGvUXbkWDEUzKv5SCi652WYUyv1vRiY43SmuqFfbPce4soRrBn5Jt57pjs7yo https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3Y... (I wrote this a while ago and it doesn't seem to be working at the moment :-/)
- amelius 8y ago
  Perhaps you need to click the "public/private" switch before uploading? This allows you to share content without a password.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
hidiegomariani 8y ago
Just one question: Why?
- jeletonskelly 8y ago
  It's on the blockchain mannnnn; the Illuminati can't censor us now!
  - ronsor 8y ago
    This is not blockchain
- iamnothere 8y ago
  Experimenting with new tech. Helping activists by building (and supporting) technology that protects them. Sharing information critical of authoritarian regimes. Leaking documents or photos that provide evidence of official corruption.
SeriousM 8y ago
Could we all please stop with "do X in Y seconds"? We all know that this is just a marketing tool and we are old enough to know that. Omg...
- SkyMarshal 8y ago
  HN mods generally do a good job of banning/retitling tabloid click-bait titles like "X reasons to do Y", but this is definitely another form of title clickbait that needs to be added to that list.
- jchrisa 8y ago
  I appreciate demos that show off the minimal effort path. It's a good way to take measure of a stack. If there's a quick golden path, you can tell the stack developers are thinking about how to make their users (app developers) more productive.
Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
This just seems like a messier version of Freenet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet
8bitsrule 8y ago
I like to see where progress is at on Decentralized, but so far much of the progress is written in expert-talk. Even a glossary on one side of a (mostly-empty) page is way better than -expecting- non-experts to grok in enough-fullness.

156 points by Noc2 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

> If you want to keep this file available, even though people might not constantly open it, you need to pin it to an IPFS gateway. We can help you with this, just send us the hash of your webpage, and we make sure it stays online. And since you are sending us an email anyway, maybe include some feedback/ideas for the further improvement of Dweb.page Email? For every update of the website? Sounds to me like the opposite of convenient. > The best way to solve this is to create a single page application (SPA) and put all the code into one HTML file. This way your webpage loads much faster on the distributed web and you don’t have any issues with links. A good argument in favor of SPAs.

dboreham 8y ago
>The best way to solve this is to create a single page application Another way (arguably more convenient than redesigning the site) is to make a flattened copy of the site's files using a tool such as https://www.httrack.com/ https://www.httrack.com/ such that all the component files (CSS, JS, etc) end up in the same IPFS directory and hence accessed under the same hash.
solarkraft 8y ago
> and you don’t have any issues with links So if this takes over the world hyperlinking will be dead?
Noc2 8y ago
The email is just a first solution to test it and also to get some feedback. It’s open source project that just started: https://github.com/PACTCare/Dweb.page https://github.com/PACTCare/Dweb.page

jancsika 8y ago

> You now can request your website from any ipfs gateway, like https://ipfs.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.io/ipfs/, https://ipfs.infura.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.infura.io/ipfs/ or https://ipfs.eternum.io/ipfs/ https://ipfs.eternum.io/ipfs/ + your hash. That is significantly more work than posting a torrent to a tracker, with significantly less discoverability. Is that hash at least decoupled from the content? Edit: clarification

idle_zealot 8y ago
> Is that hash at least decoupled from the content? It sure isn't! IPFS is a content-addressed network. If you want to update your site without changing it's address then you'll need a layer of indirection, such as IPNS, which allows a node on the network to redirect ipns://<my key> to an updatable content hash. This feature has been immature for a while now. In my experience, Dat is the more mature option, though it seems to lack an official http gateway[0]. Combined with Beaker though,it makes web authoring an absolute breeze. [0]: though unofficial public ones can be found here, as well as the tools needed to host your own https://github.com/RangerMauve/dat-gateway/ https://github.com/RangerMauve/dat-gateway/
- EGreg 8y ago
  I really like Dat. Too bad hypercore doesn’t really have any way for MULTIPLE users to write to the same file, or even a way to recover from a single user making conflicting edits at the same time. If I were to add a pluggable consensus module to Dat, where would it go?
  - oelmekki 8y ago
    I totally love that feature, actually. I'm toying currently with an app to do play by post d&d campaigns on Dat, I make one user create a Dat archive to hold game data, then each player has their own archive for their character, the game archive hold references to the public keys for each one, and then the application takes each character feed and merge them to present a seamless discussion. This feels like contributing to the same document, and yet each user is in total control of their data (almost total control, because they cannot decide to erase it if other people are already seeding it). I also love the possibilities of scaling it implies : when each user hosts their own data, the number of users doesn't matter (provided they all interact in reasonably small groups, of course). EDIT: oh btw, I can create archives on-the-fly because I'm using Beaker browser's api. I don't know if it's something possible with Dat by itself.

marknadal 8y ago

The "permanent web" has now just become "the most popular pinned web" like torrents did. :( I really think we need to expand our use cases to included mutable and immutable content. People simply are not going to switch to the dweb if they have to deal with this complexity. I did a talk on this at the Internet Archive's Decentralized Web Summit a few months ago, and how we can fix this, alongside a bunch of others in the dWeb space like DAT, SSB, etc. ( https://www.decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-better-algorithms-for-a-decentralized-webthe-gun-stack/ https://www.decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-better-algorith...).

diggan 8y ago
> The "permanent web" has now just become "the most popular pinned web" like torrents did. :( That'd be great! Torrents are great for keeping content alive, and if it's not alive (not having any seeds), you can find someone who had the content before to just start their client, add the content again and all the content is still referred the same way. I remember a while back on HN, the oldest torrent was discussed but unfortunately it didn't have any seeds. The original author of the content saw this, and started it's node, allowing people to download it again, without having to pass around new links/IDs. I think it was a Matrix remake called "The Fanimatrix", but I can't find the comment anymore. Torrents are great for making sure content is available for a long time, something the current web suck at. Imagine the same with websites. Rather than Yahoo deciding for the world that Geocities shouldn't be online anymore, people can decide to help out to host it, and no links would change. That's a future I can get behind! Would make it super easy to recover websites, compared to our current ways (hoping that Internet Archive have previously archived the website) > I really think we need to expand our use cases to included mutable and immutable content. > People simply are not going to switch to the dweb if they have to deal with this complexity. Agree with both points! And I think I specifically have told you this before as well here on HN, IPFS does support dynamic content out-of-the-box with pubsub and raw streams to other peers. However, the basic building blocks IPFS provides, aren't really meant to replace the currently easy experience of web development. For a better developer experience, there are libraries wrapping IPFS. Examples include https://github.com/ipfs-shipyard/peer-star-app/blob/master/docs/API.md https://github.com/ipfs-shipyard/peer-star-app/blob/master/d... and https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/ https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/, both very easy to use. Disclaimer: I work for Protocol Labs on IPFS and related projects

superkuh 8y ago

I guess it's eventually distributed but but still centralized in terms of using ipfs and having to go through gateways. A truly distributed means of hosting is everyone hosting their own websites from their home connections. It's simpler and no central authorities are needed. Home connections are plenty fast these days. And the best part is that you get tons of storage space and you don't have to 'upload' anywhere. You can also make real websites instead of 'single page application' javascript monsters.

Santosh83 8y ago
In this case you're still beholden to your ISP and whoever controls them. True decentralisation would be something like mesh networks, making use of only local device capabilities.
- superkuh 8y ago
  If your ISP is not a dumb pipe then everything else is already lost. Mesh networks only work if you pay the big money for rental on building roofs and existing towers. This money, and so height, and so line of sight, is why cell networks work. You might get some non-profit going in areas especially conducive to it (ie, high population density cities where residents have access to their roofs, or coastal areas with large mountains).
erikb 8y ago
> truly distributed means of hosting is everyone hosting their own websites That means "self-hosted". Distributed hosting means you can't host it in one place. I agree though, that one might consider it as a form of decentralized hosting if everybody hosts their own stuff, which you also totally can now that we have cheap computing power like raspis.
- buboard 8y ago
  the cheapest computer we all have are home routers. would be nice to them coming with ipfs preinstalled (and perhaps turned on by default!)

blairanderson 8y ago

this is click bait.

freddieRidell 8y ago

Instead of using IFPS, which currently needs gateways, you can get a fully distributed site using https://beakerbrowser.com/ https://beakerbrowser.com/ It's based on the https://datproject.org/ https://datproject.org/ which is also used to archive and distribute scientific data.

TekMol 8y ago

I have no idea what I am doing, but after uploading a text file, that dweg.page thing tells me to share this link: https://untangle.care/ipfs/QmaSpmvTr68z3EgTp2XFZdBzc1HwNPQXWHyF34rpctJgCs/index.html?id=QmaJnDnZfzP64nq7Ujjed5S8NNweMLX3jcEbrremZNzCEo https://untangle.care/ipfs/QmaSpmvTr68z3EgTp2XFZdBzc1HwNPQXW... And this password: xngojhmH10zb2oLA7COya6pHZ3qkmQAJuX7cwqBkRJM Ok, so now I kind of published my haiku in encrypted form on IPFS? Why was it encrypted? I tried to redownload it from one of the other ipfs gateways, but so for to no avail. Any ideas how to do it?

Noc2 8y ago
I definitely need to improve the user experience of this switch between public and private. Ideas are highly appreciated!
- CGamesPlay 8y ago
  Include the password in the URL fragment like mega.co.nz does. I built something similar actually, you might want to look at it: Source: https://github.com/CGamesPlay/ipfs-fileshare https://github.com/CGamesPlay/ipfs-fileshare Published version: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3YeyWJMhW/ https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3Y... Example encrypted file: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3YeyWJMhW/#3AMeoSGKfn3xpJogXzQWQgE4D2cC3i6p1HJCPekN24W2fUgVR9ZsGvUXbkWDEUzKv5SCi652WYUyv1vRiY43SmuqFfbPce4soRrBn5Jt57pjs7yo https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmaP8v2wzJjbcvnhkJRaecCrHDGAQdYHcr6MH3Y... (I wrote this a while ago and it doesn't seem to be working at the moment :-/)
amelius 8y ago
Perhaps you need to click the "public/private" switch before uploading? This allows you to share content without a password.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

hidiegomariani 8y ago

Just one question: Why?

jeletonskelly 8y ago
It's on the blockchain mannnnn; the Illuminati can't censor us now!
- ronsor 8y ago
  This is not blockchain
iamnothere 8y ago
Experimenting with new tech. Helping activists by building (and supporting) technology that protects them. Sharing information critical of authoritarian regimes. Leaking documents or photos that provide evidence of official corruption.

SeriousM 8y ago

Could we all please stop with "do X in Y seconds"? We all know that this is just a marketing tool and we are old enough to know that. Omg...

SkyMarshal 8y ago
HN mods generally do a good job of banning/retitling tabloid click-bait titles like "X reasons to do Y", but this is definitely another form of title clickbait that needs to be added to that list.
jchrisa 8y ago
I appreciate demos that show off the minimal effort path. It's a good way to take measure of a stack. If there's a quick golden path, you can tell the stack developers are thinking about how to make their users (app developers) more productive.

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

This just seems like a messier version of Freenet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet

8bitsrule 8y ago

I like to see where progress is at on Decentralized, but so far much of the progress is written in expert-talk. Even a glossary on one side of a (mostly-empty) page is way better than -expecting- non-experts to grok in enough-fullness.