5 ms·

Another issue is theft. I own a remote desert property in many ways ideal for solar, but the utility electric bill averages < $20/mo. Nobody is going to try s

Another issue is theft. I own a remote desert property in many ways ideal for solar, but the utility electric bill averages < $20/mo. Nobody is going to try steal the hot copper wires connecting my house to the grid. But where there's a substantial PV array on display, there's batteries and an expensive inverter nearby, and not much to prevent taking them.

danans 8y ago
Yours is a very unusual case. Most domestic solar installations are on roofs, so not likely to be stolen, and most homes' electricity bill is much higher than $20/mo.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  I don't expect the panels to be the first things taken. The battery bank and inverter however, which are easily put invisibly to use by anyone even your neighbor, are quite the prize. I'm not sure it's all that unusual a case. Solar is especially relevant to remote off-grid homes. Unfortunately, these are also prime targets for theft as they're often left unattended for long periods with distant neighbors. Denser populations have a grid, and can just have a large solar installation powering that grid on a large scale. It's a problem. Solar puts expensive infrastructure on-site, it's a mini power station.
  - danans 8y ago
    > I'm not sure it's all that unusual a case. > Solar is especially relevant to remote off-grid homes. Unfortunately, these are also prime targets for theft as they're often left unattended for long periods with distant neighbors. Remote off grid homes are a very unusual case. Not saying there is no demand from that segment, but even there is a higher rate of demand from it, it's a small segment of the market vs urban/suburban rooftop solar, and I wouldn't expect major manufacturers and installers to optimize for it. > Denser populations have a grid, and can just have a large solar installation powering that grid on a large scale. That's already happening today. However people choose to have rooftop domestic solar for many reasons ... to fix the long term cost of their electricity consumption, to offset peak power rates, etc. > It's a problem. Solar puts expensive infrastructure on-site, it's a mini power station. In situations where site security is a problem, presumably custom solutions can be put in place by installers to ensure security of the inverters and batteries. It may cost more, but that's sort of the price paid for owning property in a sparse, remote location.
eloff 8y ago
Also in some parts of the world they will definitely steal your copper wires (out of the walls of your house if there isn't sufficient security!) But in those places your solar gear wouldn't last a week.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  In the UK an acquaintance of mine has regular phone outages because the copper comms lines are pulled. They're shallow ditch laid; the thieves hook one end to a tow-hitch and drive, I gather.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  I've heard about this happening, fortunately it's not that bad where my property is. Not yet anyways...
ggm 8y ago
Are you seriously arguing deployment should cease because of a theft risk? I don't doubt the theft risk exists. I'm asking if you are catastrophising to "..so we shouldn't do it" or just observing a downside risk component.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Nope, not at all, I wasn't aware I was engaged in an argument. It just makes more sense in a lot of cases to let the utility provider convert to solar than turn your house into a power station you then have to secure accordingly and maintain. I'm not interested in having to surround my property with barbed wire topped chain link fences, which is what you'll see around power stations for good reasons.
  - ggm 8y ago
    Mostly risk of death reasons. Solar and battery are not high on my list of lifestyle and risk components any more than a car parked outside or plants are. Maybe you live in a much higher crime risk area. I know (for instance) honey hives in NZ are being predated by gangs so I can believe there are portable high theft risk things in rural settings. But I'm really unsure a Tesla battery rig is one. I've had plants stolen. I still maintain my garden..
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      > I've had plants stolen. I still maintain my garden.. What a world it would be if independent solar power were the cost of a garden!
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        How much do you value your time? Gardens tend to be pretty expensive when you add up the hours for a decade or two!
        ggm 8y ago
hyperbovine 8y ago
Data, please: how many documented cases of this type of theft actually exist? No offense, but it sounds like you live in the middle of nowhere and are slightly paranoid.
- chriscappuccio 8y ago
  Rural theft is a big problem around here. Just a few months ago someone stole the entire generator at a tower site that is high up on top of Grey Butte, near Smith Rock in Redmond, Oregon. I picture a similar risk for solar panels.
  - ggm 8y ago
    Yes. Rural theft is a problem. Now, explain how society advances if we give in to crime and we stop investing in rural communities
Farradfahren 8y ago
Hide it,in a untraditional way. Do not have wires leading to your property, have it surrounded by earth walls, use the electricity to synthesize methan or to generate hydrogen. Retrieve the catridges full of pressurized energy every once in a while.
MertsA 8y ago
>Nobody is going to try steal the hot copper wires connecting my house to the grid. Especially considering the wires connecting your house to the grid are actually aluminum. Is PV theft really a problem though? I mean they could sell them on ebay but AFAIK most thieves aren't just fencing everything on ebay. I can't imagine a pawn shop would give them much for it considering how hard it would be for the pawn shop to resell them. With copper and aluminum theft the thieves can just go down to the nearest scrapyard and get paid by the pound.

danans 8y ago

Yours is a very unusual case. Most domestic solar installations are on roofs, so not likely to be stolen, and most homes' electricity bill is much higher than $20/mo.

newnewpdro 8y ago
I don't expect the panels to be the first things taken. The battery bank and inverter however, which are easily put invisibly to use by anyone even your neighbor, are quite the prize. I'm not sure it's all that unusual a case. Solar is especially relevant to remote off-grid homes. Unfortunately, these are also prime targets for theft as they're often left unattended for long periods with distant neighbors. Denser populations have a grid, and can just have a large solar installation powering that grid on a large scale. It's a problem. Solar puts expensive infrastructure on-site, it's a mini power station.
- danans 8y ago
  > I'm not sure it's all that unusual a case. > Solar is especially relevant to remote off-grid homes. Unfortunately, these are also prime targets for theft as they're often left unattended for long periods with distant neighbors. Remote off grid homes are a very unusual case. Not saying there is no demand from that segment, but even there is a higher rate of demand from it, it's a small segment of the market vs urban/suburban rooftop solar, and I wouldn't expect major manufacturers and installers to optimize for it. > Denser populations have a grid, and can just have a large solar installation powering that grid on a large scale. That's already happening today. However people choose to have rooftop domestic solar for many reasons ... to fix the long term cost of their electricity consumption, to offset peak power rates, etc. > It's a problem. Solar puts expensive infrastructure on-site, it's a mini power station. In situations where site security is a problem, presumably custom solutions can be put in place by installers to ensure security of the inverters and batteries. It may cost more, but that's sort of the price paid for owning property in a sparse, remote location.

eloff 8y ago

Also in some parts of the world they will definitely steal your copper wires (out of the walls of your house if there isn't sufficient security!) But in those places your solar gear wouldn't last a week.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
In the UK an acquaintance of mine has regular phone outages because the copper comms lines are pulled. They're shallow ditch laid; the thieves hook one end to a tow-hitch and drive, I gather.
newnewpdro 8y ago
I've heard about this happening, fortunately it's not that bad where my property is. Not yet anyways...

ggm 8y ago

Are you seriously arguing deployment should cease because of a theft risk? I don't doubt the theft risk exists. I'm asking if you are catastrophising to "..so we shouldn't do it" or just observing a downside risk component.

newnewpdro 8y ago
Nope, not at all, I wasn't aware I was engaged in an argument. It just makes more sense in a lot of cases to let the utility provider convert to solar than turn your house into a power station you then have to secure accordingly and maintain. I'm not interested in having to surround my property with barbed wire topped chain link fences, which is what you'll see around power stations for good reasons.
- ggm 8y ago
  Mostly risk of death reasons. Solar and battery are not high on my list of lifestyle and risk components any more than a car parked outside or plants are. Maybe you live in a much higher crime risk area. I know (for instance) honey hives in NZ are being predated by gangs so I can believe there are portable high theft risk things in rural settings. But I'm really unsure a Tesla battery rig is one. I've had plants stolen. I still maintain my garden..
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    > I've had plants stolen. I still maintain my garden.. What a world it would be if independent solar power were the cost of a garden!
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      How much do you value your time? Gardens tend to be pretty expensive when you add up the hours for a decade or two!
      - ggm 8y ago

hyperbovine 8y ago

Data, please: how many documented cases of this type of theft actually exist? No offense, but it sounds like you live in the middle of nowhere and are slightly paranoid.

chriscappuccio 8y ago
Rural theft is a big problem around here. Just a few months ago someone stole the entire generator at a tower site that is high up on top of Grey Butte, near Smith Rock in Redmond, Oregon. I picture a similar risk for solar panels.
- ggm 8y ago
  Yes. Rural theft is a problem. Now, explain how society advances if we give in to crime and we stop investing in rural communities

Farradfahren 8y ago

Hide it,in a untraditional way. Do not have wires leading to your property, have it surrounded by earth walls, use the electricity to synthesize methan or to generate hydrogen. Retrieve the catridges full of pressurized energy every once in a while.

MertsA 8y ago

>Nobody is going to try steal the hot copper wires connecting my house to the grid. Especially considering the wires connecting your house to the grid are actually aluminum. Is PV theft really a problem though? I mean they could sell them on ebay but AFAIK most thieves aren't just fencing everything on ebay. I can't imagine a pawn shop would give them much for it considering how hard it would be for the pawn shop to resell them. With copper and aluminum theft the thieves can just go down to the nearest scrapyard and get paid by the pound.